Representative Stace Nelson dropped by the blog yesterday and commented that he'd had "a rotten day."
What the... oh, that:
Representative Stace Nelson, who lives just outside of Mitchell in Hanson County, says he is being moved off the House Agriculture Committee because he opposes a large dairy operation proposed in his county.
The Speaker of the South Dakota House of Representatives says that claim is false.
Speaker Val Rausch says he hasn't moved anybody on any committee yet but he needs to make room for Dave Scott, a new legislator who was just appointed by Governor Dennis Daugaard to fill a vacant seat.
But Nelson says he was informed Tuesday that he is being moved off the Agriculture Committee because of his opposition to a 7,000 head dairy operation, and he's calling it "˜Chicago-style politics.'
"The action itself I think is rank corruption at its worst," Nelson, a Republican from Fulton, said [Ben Dunsmoor, "Lawmaker Calls Committee Assignment 'Corrupt'," KELOLand.com, 2011.11.29].
Rep. Nelson must have really made the leadership mad when he grilled clueless Ag Secretary Walt Bones at a formal hearing last summer over pollution and immigration issues at South Dakota dairies.
Speaker Rausch, who comes from big dairy territory in Grant County, says he's just looking for reasonable committee assignments for Mr. Scott, who has a strong agriculture background. Ah, so now the GOP is a meritocracy? Funny we didn't consider experience and background issues in appointing not one but two Public Utilities Commissioners in the past year who have no strong background in the utilities industry.
Dakota War College hasn't gotten directions yet from GOP headquarters on how to spin this story for the party establishment. It seems clear, though, that replacing a sitting legislator, elected by the people, with a new legislator appointed by the governor bucks legislative protocol. For better or for worse, our Legislature is usually all about seniority. Rep. Nelson has seniority over Dave Scott. It's hard to read a decision to kick Nelson off his committee assignment as anything other than transparent punishment for his refusal to toe the party line on Big Ag.
Cory, and do you wonder why conservatives want to remain anonymous when standing up to the Big Business special interests that run this state? And don't forget that the Educrats are tied in to provide free job training for these fatcats.
Indeed, Steve, the email I received from the SDRepublican.org admin about fears of "retaliation" seem justified. I know that committee assignments are part of the game, but the game should be about serving the people, not big business or party power.
If one were to ask all legislators to name the five most honorable and kindest legislators, Val Rausch would be one of those five on most ballots.
To call him corrupt is an offense against the truth.
Troy, Stace had the conversation, so it is he says versus he says. The question of fact is why does people like Tim Rave who received a 33% rating on the SDGOP Platform voting scorecard and Rausch who performed at 35%, get leadership positions? And when people like me stand up and voice our complaint, we have Pat Powers and others personally attack me and my family? And spouses lose jobs at the SDGOP headquarters?
And Troy, perhaps Val was being his honorable self and was just being honest with Stace as to one of the reasons for the committee change.
“No matter what side of an argument you're on, you always find some people on your side that wish you were on the other side.†— Jascha Heifetz
Mr. Jones, In the fine mood I am in this morning it is most unfortunate to stumble across your normal dumbass comments. You have shown you will kiss a convicted murdering scumbag like Eric Robert on the lips.
You have no clue of what transpired but you are willing to make your normal asinine statements that you somehow are involved and in the know to give your bloated self-centered ego its much needed boost.
Only a clueless dumbass would not see even a casual connection between the two events that have unfolded and come to a conclusion of retaliation, let alone if they were actually in the know about things that have occurred to include my complaints of leadership ethics violations of violating legislators' LRC confidentiality of bills in research.
Now go pound sand.
It occurs to me (if his participation on public blogs is any indicator) that any committee Stace Nelson is on most likely becomes a committee of one within minutes of his being appointed to it.
Bill,
Why do you join in with the SDGOP Establishment's personal attack agenda?
Sibby,
It is my understanding that he actually denied that he had a conversation with me on Monday evening when he told me he was removing me an in which he chastised me about my involvement with the community in fighting the dairy, to a reporter!
The problem is that I had already told the reporter of the call and that I had texts from Rausch in which he even mentioned the conversation of Monday & the discussion of what he called "the CAFO."
He also told the reporter, and KELO, that he had not made the decision yet! Not nice to lie to reporters when I have his text message saying the opposite.
I am not so naive as to think that this is all about Hanson Co's dairy fight. I know that House leadership were upset with me for my pushing to have cumalaitve votes online (remember Daily Republic & RCJ articles), complaining about the hiding of the final vote of HB-1198, my bitter complaints of their OBVIOUS gerrmandering of Rep. Lora Hubbel out of her district, AND my complaints to House members of House Leadership pressuring LRC staff to provide them advance notice of legislators' bills in research that are SUPPOSED to be confidential. I threatened a disciplinary committee motion in open session.
In his comments Monday night, Rausch made it very clear the action was personal, and that it was as he put it with my opposition to the dairy "on his mind" in making the decision.
Of further Note, Cory, realize that Rep. Rausch could move 1 of the 2 Democrats off of Ag committee if this was actually not the personal retaliation that it is. Local government only has 3 Democrats, as per the legislative pecking order that you have already alluded to.
Mr. Rausch made it very clear though that this was not about anything other than screwing with me. He admitted that he had not even talked with Mr. Scott to see what committees he was interested in and he was unaware of the news reports that Mr. Scott has 26 years of local government involvement and was unconcerned when I pointed out I had none.
Sibby, because I believe in representative government, Steve.
"Sibby, because I believe in representative government, Steve."
Bill,
Only when it is run by those you agree with.
Nonsense as usual.
Looks like maybe the SDWC Update is now excluding posts from Sibby Online. I guess the SDGOP Establishment don't want their Kool Aid drinkers to find out the truth.
Sibby, the "truth" and Sibby Online are two mutually exclusive parallel universe, buddy. Most of the time, you're so far out there, you're not even wrong.
Bill, I am sure the RINOs welcome your efforts to retaliate with personal attacks. So much for Bill Fleming, the tolerate monistic unifier.
Steve,
Kinda like in one post you calling me a RINO and in another saying I'm establishment?
Troy, they do seem to go hand in hand.
I thought you were about policy and not name calling?
Troy, I am just as capable of being sinful as anybody.
Troy,
A comment was left at SDWC regarding Sibby Online being removed from the sidebar, and now that comment is gone. Know anything about that? Boy, this must have the Establishment really shook up.
If the SD Democratic Party weren't such a collection of limp rags, somebody like Stace Nelson would not be the only person raising hell about legislative abuses of power in Pierre.
It might be that like a stopped clock, Stace Nelson is right this time.
Steve,
While I have no idea about what did or didn't get deleted at SDWC, I don't think the "establishment" is shaken up over this.
Troy, since you operate over at the SDWC, would you kindly find out what is going on? Or do you agree that my positions need to be filtered out of the SDWC environment?
What's the plural of pariah, Steve?
Sibby, you need constant outside filtering since you appear to have no internal mechanisms for doing it on your own accord. ;^)
Bill, I see you are also issuing personal attacks at Stace over at the SDWC. It sure is great of you to be carrying water for the SDGOP Establishment RINOs. It should be expected that Big Government statists would stick together.
I will try to remember to check into it. I might need a reminder if you don't hear from me in a few days
Thanks Troy, I have noticed that most all of the time you deal with issues and do so in a very constructive matter.
Oh poor Stace. Isn't it just terrible how everybody always picks on him, Sibby? Have you seen the kind of poison venom he issues whenever someone has the audacity to disagree with him? Any comment I may make about him pales by comparison. You really do need to lay off the sleeping pills, Sib (or is it the Viagra?). Whatever it is, it's starting to cloud your vision, brother.
Bill, you set a standard for everyone else. Why don't you follow it? Are you willing to admit you are a sinful person like everyone else and drop the everyone is naturally good religious theology?
The Bard set the standard, Sibby, not I:
____________
HAMLET
Then is doomsday near: but your news is not true.
Let me question more in particular: what have you,
my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune,
that she sends you to prison hither?
GUILDENSTERN
Prison, my lord!
HAMLET
Denmark's a prison.
ROSENCRANTZ
Then is the world one.
HAMLET
A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.
ROSENCRANTZ
We think not so, my lord.
HAMLET
Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison.
ROSENCRANTZ
Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
narrow for your mind.
HAMLET
O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
have bad dreams.
___________
You need to maybe brush up on the classics, brother Sib.
Bill, I would react to your BS at the SDWC, but the communists over there won't let me speak. Stace did not lie. He was and is helping those who are afraid of GOP Establishment communist-style retaliation. Why do you insist helping those RINOs duck accountability?
Sibby, that sounds paranoid, man. Remember we talked about that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
I thought you guys were all about transparency. You know, sunshine and all that? What's the big retaliation they're afraid of? Getting kicked out because they refuse to play nice in the sandbox?
Sorry I don't buy it.
Big 'C' Communists, Steve. We small 'c' communists object to your gross generalization.
Mr. Nelson is a man of honor and courage who has taken an oath to support the South Dakota constitution. The reason this hit job is happening is because Stace will not play the Pierre social club game.
Flag! Stace, five-yard penalty, unnecessary verbal roughness. Calling Troy Jones a "dumbass" is unnecessary and counterfactual. Even when he's wrong, he's tolerably intelligent.
Jones asserts that lots of legislators would list Speaker Rausch as one of the most honorable and kind. Maybe, maybe not. I welcome other legislators (aside from the one apparently being screwed by Speaker Rausch) to weigh in here.
Jones calls the charge of corruption an offense against the truth. I'm not convinced "corrupt" is the most accurate word for what Rausch appears to be doing. "Corrupt" conjures impressions of bribery, trickery, etc. Rasuch appears to be making a pretty straightforward use of the power of his office. He has the authority to make and break committee assignments, and standard practice appears to be that he may do so at will. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just wondering if there is a better word (Machiavellian?) for this action... and whether the word we use to describe this action affects at all the debate over it.
Cory,
What to you call rewarding those who are willing to help the GOP throw money at Big Corporations and taking power away from those who don't?
Bill, who said:
"Only the paranoid survive"
Andrew Grove.
Hey it's your life Sibby. If you want to spend it wallowing in irrational fear, despair, and self-delusion, knock yourself out. Just don't expect a lot of company.
How about it being Tom daschle's campaign motto. Didn't you make tens hundreds of thousands of dollars on one of his campaigns?
I wish we could bring the issue back to CAFO's and other large dairies and the effect they have on local people. Recently this blog has been filled with ongoing comments from Troy, Bill, Steve. but very few others. If you guys want to play verbal football, I would suggest you take it elsewhere.
From the perspective of someone who took on the establishment, this is pretty typical Republican behavior. When Keith Paisley bucked the Republican establishment on environmental issues in the 80s and 90s, he'd find his bills messed around with and similar slights. Then Democrats started winning seats. When the party divide was closer, Keith got messed with much less. They needed his vote on most issues, and he was a pretty sure vote on everything except for the Republican anti-environment agenda. The key is to preventing this sort of petty corruption is to have an evenly divided Legislature.
Charlie, if you have something to say, I would suggest you just say it. What are your thoughts about large dairies?
Given this latest dust up and the continued attempt at hijacking the Republican party by the 912 and tea party groups, maybe it's time that Stace, Ellis, Sibby, et. al. start their own party. This is a fight that I enjoy watching, but come on.
This little intra-party spat has been brewing for a long time and is headed to be a Jerry Springer quality showdown.
Heck, you guys are making the Democratic party look sane and safe to voters.
Time to do it Stace. Besides, your district voted for you Stace...not a party.
I, too, am keenly interested in hearing other perspectives on the CAFO issue, and would love to see Stace lead a bipartisan charge to restore some of the protections for human-scale farming and the rural environment. Some good can come of this fracas!
But I also remain keenly interested in understanding why this fracas is happening and what else may come of it. Donald's point is very instructive: the unchecked power the GOP currently has leads them to use that power in less appropriate ways. But then we can't expect the GOp to surrender power; it behooves us Dems to get our poop in a group, field candidates in every district, and run hard to win!
"maybe it’s time that Stace, Ellis, Sibby, et. al. start their own party"
No I think we should take over the Democrat Party and take them back to their Jeffersonian roots. Tell the committed Big Government socialists to get out and jump in bed with the Big Government fascist RINOs. That way the people will have a real choice, instead of no choice today but to put into office those who believe in Big Government.
Sibby, oh that would work out great! No conflicts there.
Sibby, Ellis, Stace et. al. ...seriously get your own party and do your own thing. It's got to be humiliating trying to glom on to other parties and try and make everyone think like you. Not to mention frustrating that the vast majority of conservatives don't think like you.
So why fight it? Give the voters a clear alternative and let them decide...clearly with your superior ideas, everyone will flock to your new party and you will have the last laugh. Oh sure you might have to do a little work to get off of the Republican gravy train you are trying to ride for free, but it'll be worth it and you will be in control and more importantly voters will have that clear choice.
I'm with Jana there, Sibby. What's the advantage of taking over the Dems? It's not like we've got bases and ammo dumps for you to use. It's not like our mailing and donor lists would do you any good. The only advantage you get is inheriting ballot status... but if you are serious, and if you offer a real alternative that can get traction, you can earn full party status for yourselves in no time.
Besides, third-party status might serve everyone's interests better. On some issues (CAFOs, corporate welfare), Stace and others (Haggar? Hubbel? Stricherz?) are natural allies of the Dems. On others (gays, guns, God), they're likely to find allies in the GOP. A third party engaged in regular and fluid coalition might make it possible to make progress on more issues.
Sibby...OMG. Did you just call the Republicans that scored low on Stace's test fascists? Amazing how much you bring to the discussion.
Wow, just wow.
Jana, what else would you call those who use government to control the economy?
The third party will be started with the return on Jesus Christ, then soon there be only one. Finally, the unity Fleming is dreaming about.
Sibby, dear Sibby. The government doesn't control the economy. The government is controlled by the economy of politics.
So who has a bigger impact on what happens with economic policy. Is it the representatives of government listening to the people, analyzing the facts, modeling the future? Or is it special interests and the captains of capitalism telling government what they will do?
Your last little piece on the 3rd party...not going there. I have adopted the Fleming no Rabbit Hole policy. You are certainly free to rant though.
So Stace, Sibby, Ellis et. al. here's some examples of what other leaders are doing to start 3rd parties. You can do it too!
Buddy Roemer has the Americans Elect Party
http://www.americanselect.org
Rocky Anderson, former Mayor of Salt Lake City has started the Justice Party.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705395124/Rocky-Anderson-forms-Justice-Party-plans-to-run-for-president.html
Watching and reading all of this makes me feel Stace is telling the truth while Val sits and chuckle with his leadership friends about how to get even with Stace. I am guessing that Stace can be hard to deal with often but I bet Val and his thin skinned friends have their own problems and they probably run in a pack.
Few people have thinner skin than those in politics with power.
"I wish he wouldn't air his conclusions in the press," says Speaker Rausch. Assuming Rep. Nelson is speaking the truth, I see no reason he shouldn't tell the press and all of us citizens what he sees happening in Pierre. We should know everything the Legislature does. We should know if the party leadership is pushing the people's elected servants around and putting special interests above the general welfare.
But if Rep. Nelson wants to make a real stand for openness and for his constituents, he needs to find some allies. One guy making noise can be a burr in the party bosses' saddle. One guy with a bloc of legislators who will stand with him in on votes in committee and on the floor can give the leadership migraines and get things done.
Having libs like me cheering him for shaking up the GOP and guys like Sibby trumpeting the Second Coming won't help him keep a committee seat or advance any legislation for Hanson County. Can Rep. Nelson find any effective allies among his current colleagues?
"The government doesn’t control the economy."
Jana, then you take a breath and admit it is the govement that controls the economy. By passing by what you think is a rabbit hole, is actually a coyote hole.
Jana, I have a party, the Republican Party. As has been pointed out repeatedly by my buddy IP, whether you like me or NOT, I told South Dakotans who I was and where I stood on issues when I ran. The SD Republican Party Platform could have been tailor authored for me..
Mr. "H," there are some good people in the legislature and I do believe that the bill I am bringing has a chance to make things more open. The scorecard irritated politicians because their votes were made public and they need to now explain them... Which is what our country needs, accountability. Be afraid of elected officials who think they should be able to vote and their votes hidden from the public. The beauty is that the success folks have seen with their report card has given them the motivation to do another one next session. I am sure folks voting against making it easier for the public (them) to review voting records would be a major bill on their "list."
Stace, I totally support the GOP Platform Voting Scorecard to the extent that it may irritate legislators and provoke conversations about what their votes really mean. I totally support encouraging the SDRepublican.org folks to do more scorecards, with analysis of as many platform planks and votes as they have time to do (hey, could they whip up a comparable analysis based on the Dems' platform?). While I reserve the right to change my mind when I see the details, I offer my tentative support to any proposals you may offer to promote more openness and transparency in government.
And even if we disagree on various points, I am entirely greatful for your willingness to air your views and the party's inside baseball publicly. Open, honest discussion of what's really happening in Pierre serves the public good.
Stace, based on your website it seems that you have a greater allegiance to the 912 Glenn Beck group than the GOP. Why you don't even have the party platform on your site, but you do list out lots of detail on the 912 group.
"Stace, based on your website it seems that you have a greater allegiance to the 912 Glenn Beck group than the GOP. "
Jana, now you are beginning to understand that the GOP does not represent their platform and there are those of us who do that are blowing the trumpet...see Ezekial 33. That has nothing to do with Glenn Beck and his Mormonism's Dominion Theology. Your Social Gospel based political positions in fact has more to do with Mormonism's Dominion Theology.
Stace, let me make an attempt at a football sports analogy to make it clearer on why you need to start your own party.
You were picked up by team GOP as a free agent you brought some skills to the team, but more as a lineman or special teams player. Now you are in the locker room raising hell. You run to the media calling out the quarterback and the coaches for running a crappy game plan. Even though you don't see the nuance of an audible at the line, you hammer them on not sticking with the game plan.
You are pretty sure that playing a George Halas smash mouth, jam it down their throat running game is the way to go. Problem is you have the best quarterback and receiving corp in the league to go along with a couple of running backs who will keep the defense honest.
Of course this wouldn't be such a bad thing if the team had a 30 year history of losing. But that's not the case. If I were the coach, I'd cut you loose and let you take locker room rants to a new team that shared your game plan. Heck, they might even trade you for a future draft choice.
So get out there tiger and find a team that you can lead with your game plan. You'll be happier, your new team will be happy and your old team will be happier. Maybe you'll even see each other again in the Super Bowl.
Go Packers!
Jana - that was probably the best post I have read regarding this issue. Although Stace has every right to voice is disconcern with the decisions being made by Speaker Rausch, he sounds like a middle school boy that didn't get his way, so he now stomping is big Marine feet and yelling at the top of his lungs. I truly don't believe the decision that Rausch is making regarding committee appointments has anything to do with the dairy in Hanson County. Rausch may have voiced his disconcern with Stace's support against the dairy, but at the end of the day I think it has very little to do with the committee re-assignment and Stace came to that conculsion on his own. What is more alarming is Stace's behavior in the media, blogsphere and facebook...seriously, his facebook page looks like a junior high girls page when she is mad at her friends for not including her in their sleep over...grow up Stace. I respect your voice and you have every right to share it but look at how you are doing it. Whenever some one has disagreed or called you out on a issue, you threaten, call names, challenge them to "poke you in the chest" seriously!
Jana is right on when she says go get your own party...you don't like what the GOP is doing start your own party (actually there is one that you will fit right into - the Tea Party). We all know you won't because you won't get the support that you have been used to with having that (R) after your name.
I agree, LFoss. Way to lay it out for him, Jana. 5 stars, sister.You too, LF.
Glad to see I didn't muck up the football analogy...pays to have brothers who made fun of Randy Moss. Too bad for them and their Vikings.
So we have LFoss, Jana and Bill Fleming in favor of crony capitalism to promote Big Corporate Ag.
The other issue that Stace seems to feel he is being beaten up over is the voting record and scorecard...here is a news flash...votes have been matter of public record long before this little score card. If voters were concerned or felt that they should check up on their legislators, all they have to do is go to the LRC website click on a bill and WHAMO there is voting record. All the scorecard did was to put it into a simple page, but the real thing the scorecard did was to take a very small picture of the bills that were acted upon during the session. There are several other bills that are more representative of the GOP platform. I don't think that the legislators that are accussed of not voting with the GOP platform are too bothered because I think that they would tell everyone of their constituents that they are voting in the best interest of their district and constituents and the state, not always with along the party line. And in a state where I truly believe the line between the parties is very thin and sometimes cross I am glad that both Dems and Republicans can agree that the issue is the issue and the party is not the driving force. So goody for you Rep. Nelson, your more Republican than ANYONE else in the state! All that really says is that you carry your own agenda, are not willing to work with others on theirs and stomp and scream when you don't get your way! Gold star for the Representative from Hanson County!
LFoss & Jana,
Not going to waste much time here with you two.
When I asked him Monday night, why Mr. Scott wanted my position on the Ag Committee so bad, Mr. Rausch replied that he had not even discussed the issue with Mr. Scott and was unaware of Mr. Scott's experience level for any committee seat other than he heard he was a farmer. That comment caused the conversation to then turn to why. Mr. Rausch bitterly complained of my efforts opposing the dairy with specific comments alluding to my disagreements with Sec of Ag. It was made clear that this was relating to my oppostion to the dairy; however, I am not so naive as to think that was the whole reason.
The Republican Party is my party. While I may disagree with some of the bills on the report card these folks put out, and the actual degree to which it occurs, it confirmed what many of us already knew.
America is going down the toilet with Americans fully aware it is because of some of the ugly self-serving politicians (on both sides of the aisle) that have corrupted our government in DC.
The problem here is just as Jana alluded to, people thinking they are the "quarterback" and others claiming you have to look to them for cues as the "quarterback." My quarterback is the people I was voted into office by. They are disgusted with petty corrupt politics as usual, they want to see what is going on in their government, and they elect people like me to be couragous enough to yell foul when I see this type of underhanded crap.
Ironic that I am being chastised for being publically open about problems witnessed in the people's House, by two who do not even have the courage to show their identity on this little blog. Would not expect you two to understand.
Steve - I never said that I blindly support crony capitalism...I do support Economic Development and believe that each situation regardless of the "investor" deserves to be looked at with the idea of how can this benefit this county, city, state, does this make sense for everyone, will this "company" be good neighbors, will this cause more hardship than the return and reward...I think that it is ok to have varing opinions and truly I believe that Stace's "reprimand" has nothing to do with the fact he didn't support the dairy, but how he handled himself regarding the issue. I believe that the legislators know and understand that everyone is not always going to agree, but be an adult and handle in that manner rather than school yard name calling and rants.
Don't even start with me about Corporate Ag, Sibby. I'm a member of the United Farm Workers union, remember?
http://ufw.org/
Stace - LFoss is my identity. Being publically open and ranting and handling yourself in the manner in which you have are two different things, in my opinion. I get that represent the people that elected you, that is what I would expect from any legislator. What I struggle with is that you draw conculsions as to people's actions because you didn't get your way, you call people corrupt, when they are acting well within the boundaries that have been set forth for them to do so. Rep. Rausch while he may disagree with you on the dairy issue and may have even heard that you questioned the Sec. Ag, has every right to change every committee regardless of a reason. Your pissed because you didn't get your way so instead of having a face to face adult conversation, you threw up your poor me flag and named called and threatened. Why didn't you ask Rep. Rausch for a meeting? Why did you moments after your conversation, call the media and put a post on facebook that looks a teenage girl's?
So LFoss is defending is fellow fascist RINO cohorts and Bill Fleming hatred of Stace Nelson is more important to him than his political position. Thanks for clearing this up guys. You two make strange bed fellows.
Now that I think about it some more, I wonder if there is a line between a corporate socialist and a Fabian socialist.
I don't hate Nelson. I think he needs therapy. Same as you do, Sibby.
"I don’t hate Nelson."
Now look who is lying, the evidence is all over the Internet.
When the state was spending money to bring new Europeans here to build large dairies rather than promote our own people, the ag secretary was a beef producer. He had no clue that dairy prices are much higher, sometimes 50%, on the coast where the people are. Milk sold in the bottle brings a much higher price than milk that goes into cheese which is what was going to happen to SouthDakota milk. I know since I was raised on a small dairy in the midwest and worked a couple of years on a large dairy on the west coast. They get much better weather for dairy cows and much higher prices for milk. We raise a lot of hay here but no other advantages to an area which is really better for beef.
A few years ago we had a big fish kill ten miles north of Sioux Falls and no one knew what killed the fish. I even talked to a chemist from the Sioux Falls water department and no one would say a word. It the truth gets covered up we will blindly continue our problems. These huge farms have serious risks. Economists call it the point of diminishing returns. But Americans have totally bought into the big is better idea.
You are right Roger. And our political system is set up to foster the big is better economic policy. The more jobs an entity say they will provide, the bigger the coporate welfare that they will recieve.
LFoss,
A brand new "LFoss" pops up on the blogs going passionately on the attack for me putting a little light on an ugly issue, with intimate time details? What are the chances that is a concerned voter?
What part of Mr. Rausch related the dairy issue as grounds for his removing me don't you understand!? What part of he removed a sitting ELECTED legislator with tenure from a committee for a political appointee, especially when he could have moved a member of the opposite party, is customary?
You support Mr. Rausch's right to remove me for nefarious reasons; however, you chastise me for asserting my rights to inform the public of such activity?
I reached out to Chairman Tim Rave, and numerous people, to include 2 conversations with Mr. Rausch on Monday, and others asking for intervention in this.
This gets dumped on me Monday, I do everything possible to avoid this, and I am the agressor?
"If voters were concerned or felt that they should check up on their legislators, all they have to do is go to the LRC website click on a bill and WHAMO there is voting record."
LFoss that is exactly what the people did with the scorecard. So why do you attack them with this:
"All the scorecard did was to put it into a simple page, but the real thing the scorecard did was to take a very small picture of the bills that were acted upon during the session."
LFoss, do you have any idea how much time it took to put that together? Think about that and reconsider your "very small picture" position.
"There are several other bills that are more representative of the GOP platform."
Then bring them forward and add them to the scoreboard and see what we come up with. Or is that too much work for someone who called the current work a "very small picture"?
SDPB-TV used to show the electronic vote results board. I suspect people watching that recognized their elected representatives often vote differently than they claimed, and we no longer see such vote results.
Stace is just discovering a local version of "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Steve,
Obvisiously the people that worked on the scorecard got their info from the LRC, my point is what was the purpose? Anyone can go to LRC and see the voting record of a legislator. I believe that the "group" that put it together have a very narrow agenda. Yes I know that they put alot of time into it...good for them. I have better things to do with my time. I have addressed specific legislators in person or writing when I felt they haven't followed through with what they said they would or used as a platform. It is my responsibility as a voter and citizen of this state to hold them accountable, but I don't have to air it in the media or on blogs. The scorecard is a very small picture when you look at the number of bills that were voted on last year. I honestly believe our time would be better spent acting like adults and having the honest conversations with people in person...just my opinion.
"Anyone can go to LRC and see the voting record of a legislator."
LFoss, I understand that you are involved and I appreciate that. I would like to clear up the above sentence. You can go to the LRC and look up votes on bills, but not a comprehisive voting record on a particular legislator. That was the purpose of the scorecard...to provide the citizens of South Dakota some feedback on how their legislators are representing them. I believe Stace wants to pass legislation top make what you state a reality. We should be able to go the the LRC and see how each legislator voted.
I don't have a problem with the bill that Rep. Nelson is proposing to present. Good for him. I think that we as voters have some responsibility to research and follow our legislators. Why must everything be "easy" and why do we have to spoon feed people? I know how my legislators voted on most bills last year, want to know how? Thats right I did my homework...I want to be an informed voter. Sometimes when we "spoon feed", we also direct the path, ie the scorecard...that is not an exact and true picture of how each and every legislator voted on last year on the issues. Let's ask voters to do their homework, let's tell them where the resources are that make that information available.
"Let’s ask voters to do their homework"
The makers of the scorecard clearly did. They even tied it to the SDGOP platform.
Steve,
Yes, the members of this group did do some homework and obviously selected issues of importance to this group. However, I do question the importance/significance of these issues and how they applied/interpreted the platform. While disagreeing any group has authority to self-appoint themselves as guardians of the GOP platform, I especially disagree this group has any credibility without full disclosure of who they are so Republicans can judge the views of the group and any biases they might have.
Do you think me and a few of my buddies would be legitimate if we did the same thing and hid behind the name "Republicans of SD?"
I'm not going to repeat myself but I just specifically addressed this issue on the SDWC if anyone cares to read it.
http://dakotawarcollege.com/archives/23448/comment-page-1#comment-128846
Mr. Jones,
"..so Republicans can judge the views of the group and any biases they might have." You mean attack the messengers?
It is about the issues, the party platform, and the way people voted! You yourself admitted that you would hace scored was it 60+%? So even in that statement you affirm in part these people's report.
If these Republicans voted correctly, as they see it, then cowboy up, own their records and explain why. Lot of folks are irritated that these folks highlighted the way they voted; however, I haven't heard anyone yet claim that the voting records are not accurate... or that these people were way off base on their views how certain issues pertained to the GOP Party Platform...
P.S. The irony? The attacks on the report are in fact fueling the media interest. Argus Leader, & Daily Republic are doing articles on it, and WNAX ran a story on it.
Rep. Nelson: how much money do you need to mount a primary challenge against Kristi Noem?
Troy, I find it more than just ironic that a "MC" at the SDWC also attacked the anonymity. Yes Troy, you use your real name, but you are on the inside of the SDGOP Establishment. Those of us on the outside, and we got there by insisting that the Party support its platform, get persecution and retaliation. People lose jobs, lose committee assignments, and face ridicule by Establishment activists such as Pat Powers.
I suggest you take Stace's common sense advice and instead focus on the content of the scorecard, explain where is off and suggest additions and changes.
Stace,
Not at all. I have not attacked you for being involved or it appears Sibby. I think voting scorecards are usually enlightening. Just think the group should "cowboy up" and tell us who they are. If they don't want to, I think they should have used a name that doesn't infer by their name they speak for the party, party platform, or the party's priorities. But the groups call. Just my opinion.
Sibby,
I have said I think nearly all the issues are either of minor significance, the position not easily discerned by the party platform (ala HB1230), and miss greater tax and spending decisions. Frankly, I would maybe have one you have selected on my list and if I had done a list, I would infer I have omniscience to decide the most defining 20 GOP issues. I'd just put it out as my opinion.
Regarding being "establishment," I'm not sure that is true even if I'm friendly with many. I'm willing and do take them on when I disagree yet have never felt any "retaliation" unless people not buying me a beer being retaliation. But, then I don't consider them "corrupt." :)
Troy, you are allowed access to SDWC, and I am banned. That is one way of defining who is in and who is out. And again, I am confused on why conservatives have to be identified by those who are anonymous.
I would donate to Stace also if he ran against Kristi Noem.
If these other legislators are the problem in Pierre than certainly Noem isn't any different. (though she acts like she is a Stace like tea bagger but obviously does leaderships bidding)
Stace for Congress? That's an interesting prospect. His willingness to challenge the powers that be suggest he'd be a good choice to run against a sitting Congresswoman, not to mention against the likely wishes of the party bosses. His support for if not involvement with SDRepublican.org would help rally the Tea/GOP insurgents.
But let's play strategy in a game that may exist only in our imaginations: Stace is better off sticking with the fight he's in right now, continuing to represent his local constituents and act as a burr in the GOP leadership's saddle in Pierre. His crotchety politicking may make more of a difference in Pierre, where he can challenge protocol and the apparent arrogance of one-party rule, than he could in Washington, where he would be just one more Tea Party rabble-rouser. Stace might also stand more chance of keeping his seat in the Legislature than he would of beating a strong, on-message Dem statewide in November.
Besides, the GOP insurgents can find plenty of folks who might be willing to take the right-wing fight to Noem: Gordon Howie, Allen Unruh, my cousin Aaron....
Stace won't run against Noem. Period.
Fixing DC is next to impossible. Fixing South Dakota is more probable, but still unlikely. Stace would best serve by focusing on South Dakota where we have a fighting chance.
See? Even Sibby wouldn't vote for him.
Bill, I did not say that. You still insist on being deceptive.
Stace won't fix anything. Mostly because that isn't his goal.
His only goal is to prove to his fellow traveler idealogues that he is worthy of position.
Looking at his actions, he's driven by his ideology fueled by the Glenn Beck inspired 912 movement. If that isn't scarey enough that a TV entertainer is his inspiration, the fact that he's an ideaolgue should.
His quixotic quest to get every vote recorded is tied directly to his ideology and it's simplistic look at the issues as purely black and white. He is comfortable at best, ignorant at worst, in totally ignoring the nuance, consequence and complication of developing and implementing sound policy for everyone.
Idealogues, on the left and the right, are self satisfied in their certainty and the comfort they get from not having to think. They don't have to think about the intended or unintended consequences of their beliefs because of their slavish conviction to their chosen ideology.
The danger is that they suck low information voters, too lazy to do their own thinking, into a false sense of purpose and superiority.
Sadly, when leaders are idealogues, their actions are devoid of any level of substance, regard for any fact that isn't consistent with their own beliefs, consideration of opposing thoughts or intellectual curiosity.
Worse, they are indignant when their loose collection of borrowed thoughts aren't embraced as absolute truth...because then they would have to think for themselves.
Stace, I think this is the point where you call me ignorant. Coming from you I wear it as a badge of honor.
Oh, so you WOULD vote for him. Sibby? Interesting. Have you done a GOP purity test on Kristi yet? That should be interesting. Can you imagine Stace debating Noem? I hope they don't televise it. I don't think I could handle watching both his knuckles AND his tongue dragging on the floor.
It's always good to start a Friday with a good laugh...thanks Bill!
You're welcome, Jana.
Jana,
On of my favorite words is "quixotic." Another favorite is "peripatetic" and love being able to use them together. For example:
Joe Blow's quixotic peripatetic walk through life is always interesting but in the end does he get anywhere?
P.S. This sentence is pointed at nobody. I just like the two words, especially together.
"Stace, I think this is the point where you call me ignorant."
Jana, I would extend that to intolerant hatefilled fool. Not the behavior that pantheistic monists (New Ager) like Bill Fleming should approve of. But yet he does. Now is that funny or really sad?
Troy,
I think your concern about on how Democrats performed can be answered by how you join in with the likes of Jana and Bill Fleming to protect the interests of the Establishment SDGOP. When I looked at the scorecard sorted by highest to lowest, the reality of Pierre was clearly shown.
I am so stealing peripatetic!
Thanks for waking up the brain cell that still remembered a very small and minute piece of of Aristotle. Must dig through the box of text books...or not.
Steve, you're the one with a belief system that causes those types of hangups, one of which is the almost immediate loss of any sense of humor whatsoever. Now, you tell me. Is that funny? Or really sad.
http://d1.artquid.fr/art/0/216/55507.1316952357.1.1600m.jpg
Sibby, thanks for paying attention. But you know what...you seem to live in a land that my travel agent can't find.
Maybe I'm as ignorant as Stace says I am, but there are gaps in your thought process that you can drive a truck through.
Tell you what, I'll just take your word for it and not worry about commenting in the future. Not that I don't like you or respect your thoughts...I just don't track the same way you do.
Good luck.
"I just don’t track the same way you do."
Praise God! And their is still hope with repentence.
@Larry (Mr "H" Screenshot time) I will NEVER run for anything other than the part time legislature. Aside from health considerations, I have no such political ambitions. Too many folks already running around thinking they should be the next Kristi Noem, John Thune, or Dennis Daugaard.
Jana - don't let Sibby drive you away. You are obviously very bright and witty, two great qualities. Steve unfortunately is the ignorant one, mostly because as many have said when you don't agree with him or buy into the kool aid he is selling, he "tries" to tear you down and throws out how he is so Christian and religious. I respect that he has an opinion and don't mind him sharing, but why the hatered when everyone doesn't share his opinion?
LFoss, good question. Maybe because Sibby, like Stace, have Narcissistic and Grandiose Delusional personality disorders?
@Troy I may disagree with you & I may get riled with some of yor more pointed personal comments; however, that does not mean that I do not respect you as an at times dialogue adversary. You knit pick on the people who compiled this, but err on the side of acceptance for anything establishment people do or say. Their site is SDRepublican.org, the name is SD GOP'ers http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/republican
@Jana What kind of (may I use your own characterization of yourself?) ignorant person says such things as above? If you had been paying attention, I incurred the establishment politician's wrath for simply TRYING to research how to require all recorded votes be reflected & how to require the cumalative voting records of legislators be placed online. I now have two bills in my hands that I will do my best to get passed this next session. But you don't let the truth stop you, you just keep on being (what was it you called yourself?) ignorant.
You are brilliant enough to know that these people's efforts to highlight a left leaning legislature actually threaten your own liberal ideas and those that are willing to enact them.
"he “tries†to tear you down"
LFoss, that is exactly what Jana was doing to Stace and I called her out on it. Amazing how strong the coalition is becoming between the far-left and the GOP RINO Establishment. And isn't "intolerant hatefilled fool" what you just charged me with, and that is what the far-left persecutes Christians with? You are quickly falling into the same catagory that Fleming has landed. You are becoming more and more irrelevant.
"Narcissistic and Grandiose Delusional personality disorders'
Bill, thanks for proving my point.
"You are brilliant enough to know that these people’s efforts to highlight a left leaning legislature actually threaten your own liberal ideas and those that are willing to enact them."
Stace, right on. That is why we are seeing the far-left coming to the defense of the RINO Establishment. And the scorecard makes that argument fact-based. Time to get the truth into the hands of those good conservatives who ae being played as fools to be deceived by the RINO Establishment. And all of you populist Democrats who want to the little to win are welcome too. You too need to understand that the Marxist leadership of the Democrat Party are also playing you for fools to be deceived. It is time for South Dakotans to fight the fascist/socialist agenda that is being shoved down our throats.
"And all of you populist Democrats who want to the little to win are welcome too"
I mean: And all of you populist Democrats who want the little guy to win are welcome too
Sorry
Steve, it's like the Hobbits and the Elves uniting to combat the Orcs of Mordor. If you don't quite understand the reference, talk to Stace.
A little more seriously though, what you seem to be missing here is the fact that there are very, very few extreme leftists (if any) in South Dakota. Your characterization of any of us as being such simply demonstrates how very very far to the extreme right your worldview has tracked.
"what you seem to be missing here is the fact that there are very, very few extreme leftists (if any) in South Dakota"
Bill,
And there are few wealthy fascist RINOs. Once the truth is told, and the poepl understand it, the people will regain control of Pierre. So stop knocking the scorecard.
I don't give a hoot about the scorecard one way or the other. It is completely meaningless to me. The data it delivers is a joke, especially if it says most SD Dems in the SD legislature are more Republican than many of the Republicans. That's just laughable. In my business we take data like that, deep six it, and fire the guy who did the survey for us.
Bill, I have yet to be told by the CASA folks in Mitchell that they received a $100 donation in my name from you.
I would not have envisioned your honor being worth so little to you...
"The data it delivers is a joke, especially if it says most SD Dems in the SD legislature are more Republican than many of the Republicans."
Bill, you are not paying attention. They are not Marxist Democrats like you. They are populist Democrats. You really need to smarten up and stop thinking in the Democrat vs. Republican dichotomy. It is very shallow.
Jana,
My pleasure. Peripatetic even is better when you say it out loud. And, together with quixotic it is almost as good as my mom's cherry pie and oatmeal chocolate chip cookies.
While liking Aristotle, my fondness is not how it is used to describe his thinking/teaching style but the image of just walking around. And, then to do so for to it for its own sake. It is both the ultimate detachment yet engagement in the blessings of the world.
Screen shot indeed, Stace! No office other than Legislature? Well, I won't hold it against you if you change your mind, but we'll take that as one less potential Noem challenger. But be honest: Varilek's announcement scared you out, right? ;-)
Bill, while a Noem-Nelson TV debate is fantasy, I dare say that it would make the kind of gruesome train-wreck TV that would send ratings through the roof.
Hey Troy esplain this:
"Next time someone is upset their comment is in moderation. I’ve got a few there now."
http://dakotawarcollege.com/archives/23461/comment-page-1#comment-128918
So Troy, are you the reason why I am on the outside looking in at the SDWC, or are you taking orders from Pat Powers? Be as honest as you expected Stace to be.
I would love to see a Nelson Noem primary.
But first I would love to see Nelson take Rave out as Chairman of the SD GOP. Stace didn't you vote for that RINO at the meeting when he became chairman?
Rep. Nelson: 'Never' means your price must be quite high. When I gather a donor base you will hear from me with an offer.
Mr. "H," Never, my friend. I like Congresswoman Noem & her family. I disagree with some of her votes; however, I am not willing to throw my support of her.
@Mike Tim Rave was my biggest supporter during the election. He was fully aware that I was probably the biggest Conservative Republican in the state, even as he helped me get elected. I like him, love his family, and consider him a friend. Tim & I disagree on some of the issues and on the big picture. He is a better man than I for taking on the job of Chairman.
@Larry Don't tempt me, I would do it for two bits just to see Troy's head explode at the thought!
Ouch Stace, you're going to hurt my feelings.
Steve,
I'm saying I have a comment stuck in moderation. I can't approve it or even check on it as I am not the original author of thread.
Stace, check went out today. Thanks for the reminder.
Bill, was that check for a hun or two bits...?
$100.
Hope it went to the right address.
Stace didn't provide one.
We'll see.
Here's where I sent it:
First Circuit CASA Program
200 E. 4th Ave.
Mitchell, SD 57301
Brenda Schulte, Executive Director
Can't remember now if I put Stephanie's name on it or Stace's.
Seems like she had a lot more to do with it than he did, actually.
Like I said, well see.
As I reported elsewhere in the blog, Mr. Fleming in fact did send the check and it was well received. In supporting this very needy & worthy cause, and following through on his word, he has my sincere respect & gratitude. Thank you for your kindness & generosity Mr. Fleming.
You're welcome, Stace. It was a good idea of yours as to what to do with the proceeds of the wager. Made everyone involved feel better. Thanks.
A Post Script to this post, Rep. Rausch is caught in a lie, and proves my initial allegations that he did this in retaliation for my complaints against him, and my opposition to the dairy in his 180 degree admissions here: http://www.ksfy.com/story/16646794/nelson-alleges-retribution-by-house-gop-leaders
that is the problem when you lie, he forget what he told people.