Last updated on 2012.02.26
Just the fact that Rep. Stace Nelson (R-25/Fulton) still has "Rep." in front of his name could be considered a minor victory for the massive, much-maligned Marine from Fulton. The GOP leadership stripped Rep. Nelson of his seat on the House Agriculture Committee for daring to question the state's favoritism toward big corporate dairies over local concerns about water quality, road damage, and illegal immigration. The party leadership kicked Nelson out of the GOP caucus for speaking up about what he considered violations of House ethics and engaged in an alleged verbal fracas with Rep. Nick Moser (R-18/Yankton). For added pettiness, Speaker Val Rausch moved Rep. Nelson to the front of the class and declined to recognize Rep. Nelson to speak. And after Rep. Nelson defended a constituent whom House Majority Leader David Lust (R-34/Rapid City) called a liar and insulted on the record in committee, a whisper or two suggested the GOP leadership might entertain a motion to expel the unruly Rep. Nelson.
But Rep. Nelson is still on the job. And despite a concerted effort by the GOP leadership to kill Rep. Nelson's bills mostly because they are his bills, he still has two legislative irons in the fire.
The first is HB 1230, an act to modify publication requirements for well driller and installer applications. One of the complaints Hanson County residents raised about the giant 7000-head dairy was that notice of the dairy's water permit was not widely published. HB 1230 would expand publication of such notices: if the official local paper is only a weekly, the notice would also have to be published in a nearby daily paper (in Hanson County's case, the well-read Mitchell Daily Republic). Rep. Nelson's bill passed the House big and the Senate barely; it now requires a House vote to concur with amendments before darkening Dennis Daugaard's desk.
The second is a swing for a moral victory, not practical policy. Rep. Nelson tried taking a dig at the big dairies by pushing an anti-illegal immigration bill (HB 1238). That bill gained no traction. But now Rep. Nelson has tossed a symbolic measure into the pile. In House Concurrent Resolution 1015, Rep. Nelson declares "that exploitation of illegal aliens is an unqualified evil and the antithesis of freedom." The great conservative decries "employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants or who are unjustly paying these immigrants substandard wages or subjecting them to conditions that are contrary to the labor laws of our country." Awfully sympathetic of Rep. Nelson, don't you think?
Of course, the Fulton Rep. also warns that illegal immigration also brings terrorism and plague to American man and beast. So there's still plenty of bogeymanning.
But HCR 1015 passed the House Friday. The Senate gets a swing at it this week. Only five Republican Senators could find the Constitutional guts to vote against a feel-good Bible-in-the-classroom charade; how many will bring themselves to vote against an easy, toothless scapegoating of illegal immigrants with a nice dash of attention to the criminals among us who hire them?
Rep. Nelson ends his second session in Pierre with two measures, one small, one symbolic, that speak directly to pressing concerns of his Hanson County constituents, voters who will come with him to the new District 19. Whatever the monkey business in Pierre, Rep. Nelson is positioning himself on the homefront to win another two years of giving and taking grief under the Capitol dome.
Sounds like Nelson is trying to feel his way though the immigration issue. He doesn't really have to work so hard. The Dream Act and AgJobs bills are all packaged up and ready to go. I wish he would put his formidable energy behind them, build consensus, and get them passed. )...and try to avoid pissing people off in the process ;^)
Hint to Stace: "Burying the hatchet" doesn't mean in somebody else's head. In the ground, brother... in the ground, big fella.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/sep/27/agjobs-bill-strikes-right-balance-on-guest-workers/
Excerpt:
Getting consensus on immigration issues is hard. But few would dispute that the existing system is broken. Its failure can be seen most clearly on farms: An estimated 70 percent of all agricultural workers in the United States are here illegally.
Without undocumented workers, crops would rot in the fields. Skeptics need only consider the plight of growers in Alabama and Georgia, who say new anti-immigrant state laws have put their harvests at risk. Latino migrant workers have fled those states because they fear being deported, and few documented workers or U.S. citizens have applied for the jobs even though they pay above minimum wage.
Nor is it difficult to understand why farmers are reluctant to use the existing guest-worker program that allows them to apply for H-2A visas for temporary foreign workers. Growers say the program is expensive and cumbersome and requires them to predict harvest schedules and labor needs a year in advance.
...
If Washington [...and Pierre?] really wants to help growers and treat workers fairly, it ought to revive the Agriculture Job Opportunities, Benefits and Security (agJOBS) Act. That bill would allow farm workers who are already here to legalize their status if they agree to pay a fine and continue to work in the fields for at least three years.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203476804576619292756560716.html
Excerpt:
"As a result of the failure of Congress to pass the Dream Act, we now have both pro-immigrant youth legislation and anti-immigrant youth legislation" that states are pursuing on their own, said Kent Wong, an immigration expert at the University of California, Los Angeles.
I know Cory has in issue with Big Ag. And so do I, to the degree that it's designed to exploit people who are already struggling (never make tea with another man's tears.) But on the flip side of that, I feel there are numerous economic development opportunities in both ag and energy that would require the recruitment of a well trained, well compensated workforce. Instead of setting policy that drives the best, brightest and hardest working people out of our state, why not consider ways of welcoming them home and giving them something significant and rewarding to do?
Seriously, how many more gambling joints, loan sharks and market speculators do we need in SD? How about implimenting some ideas where people can actually create something that will be of service and value to the whole society... (you know, like we used to do back in the "old days?")
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/02/27/manure-fueled-electricity-generator-benefits-tribe-and-local-farmers-100104
http://www.truth-out.org/capitalism-makes-us-crazy-dr-gabor-mat-illness-addiction/1330277461
The last person Stace Nelson needs advice from is Bill Fleming.
Au contraire, Sibby. The last people Nelson needs to appear to be aligned with is the lunatic, delusional, right-wing fringe of the SDGOP (you, Ellis, Howie, Randazzhole, et al.) As Stace has no doubt learned by now, you guys are radioactive, politically speaking.
While Mr. Fleming may go over the top in his opposition to me personally, I still acknowledge that he is a very sharp individual regardless of his clouded judgement on me personally. I think I have demonstrated that I am not deaf to counsel from all fronts on an issue, and that I attempt to vote on the merits as I see them regardless of the instructions given by House GOP leadership.
I have also demonstrated that I am not afraid to associate with anyone I choose in trying to come to the best conclusions possible on behalf of South Dakotans to include present company, and appropriate respectful considerations to Mr. Sibson, former Senator Howie, Mr. Ellis, Mr. Randazzo, as well as our esteemed host.
Good idea, Mr. Nelson. Spread the love. That's an entirely different song than you were singing a year ago, but I really, really like it.
Stace spread the truth, and that is an act of love Bill. Just because it upsets the deceivers does not change it.
p.s. Stace, not saying you should be afraid of the right wing-nuts. Just cautioning you to avoid becoming one of them. They have zero street cred. None.
Sibby, when you stop deceiveing yourself, then we can talk about how to communicate with others.
One step at a time man.
First you have to de-program.
EPA supports Rep. Nelson in theory: http://www.epa.gov/environmentaljustice/interagency/iwg-compendium.html
We are to speak the truth for the right reasons, with a charitable heart, and at the right time.
...and if the truth is, "I don't know," there's nothing wrong with that. No one says we have to have an opinion on every single thing that comes up in the universe, let alone pretend our opinions are facts and try to present them as such.
i.e. It's almost never about having the right answers, and almost always about asking the right questions.
p.s. Stace, remember the ancient Chinese proverb: "Man who seeks revenge should first dig two graves."
@Bill From my experience, the Good Lord meets out such things in due time.
'metes' out, earth hater.
Exactly. Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord. (Romans 12:19.)
And yeah, Larry, it's mete, not meet, Meat.
Bill...you say "Seriously, how many more gambling joints, loan sharks and market speculators do we need in SD?
You have to remember that the Republicans who run the state are God fearing idealogues who have perfected the Faustian trade off between "free market" principals and the wages of sin.
Heck, I think that's why Troy is always saying that Republicans love the poor and liberals must hate them.
The Republicans are willing to take God's edicts on usury and gambling to make sure that someone else is paying for our elderly, children and disadvantaged. Gotta admit, he might be right when you think about it like that.
OK, here's a Frank Luntz poll for Troy. Which of these words have a more negative rating:
1. Usury, greed, predatory lending
2. Gambling, greed, family destruction
3. Taxes
Now Troy, which of the above does your party advocate?
Sure has some advantages over making a personal sacrifice in being your brothers keeper.
"Troy is always saying that Republicans love the poor and liberals must hate them." ...Jana, he says that just to get our goats... and it always does. LOL.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/get-your-goat.html
Jana and Bill both nicely catalogue the exploitative practices that South Dakota government and industry embrace. If we take seriously the spirit of some of the words of HCR 1015, we have an obligation to root out all such exploitation, not just that which supports the business model for the state-favored megadairies.
Jana,
Anyone can use words with negative connotations and get a negative rating.
Liberal efforts to limit "usury" characterized as "predatory lending" results in reduced access to emergency funds for poor people preventing these poor people from making decisions for themselves. The mob does true predatory lending and thanks to Dodd Frank underground mob lending is taking off.
Liberal characterization of profits as greed denigrate the natural benefits that come from market efficiencies that ultimately benefit the poor and lessen dependency on the government.
Liberal
On my tablet, it is easy to hit send by accident. Jana, I could go on but I am sure you get the point.
Troy,
Oh who would ever think about using negative words...certainly not the disciples of Luntz.
Just for fun...reword it however you like and then tell us your answers. I am guessing this is a pig even you can put lipstick on.
Oh yeah...are you making the case that predatory lending and usury are good for society and not against Biblical teachings?
Do you really not see anything disturbing in a ruling party that prides itself in public piety relying on sins to fund its children, elderly and most vulnerable?
What does the Bible say about usury? Or is this just another "suggestion" in the conservative world to be manipulated to work in a more business friendly way.
While I don't think Dodd Frank is anywhere near perfect, maybe you can tell us why such a law was needed.
Thanks Troy
Troy..."Liberal characterization of profits as greed" ... generalize much?
Jana, I can't even follow your line of thought or discern your point. I must be dense tonight.
However, if the need for Dud-Frank was the financial meltdown it would have been nice if had dealt with cause (Gramm-Leach) instead of solidifying big banks financial dominance. It is a Wall Street crony bailout that is destroying Main Street.
Obama on profits:.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-N_DPNve44
But seriously, how many times have you heard the criticism of any corporate endeavor liberals like to demonize (oil companies, Walmart, railroads, banks) where it also includes they are doing it for profits, as if profit is a bad goal or inherently greedy? Cory has done it on here to denigrate Keystone, dairies, cheese plants, Premier Bank and just about every commercial endeavor.
Good decisions don't have a party affiliation.
Oh come now Troy...you are a smart person, but elevating the discussion with Dud - Frank? Please.
But to blame the financial melt down and fraud on "...it would have been nice if (it) had dealt with (the) cause (Gramm-Leach)..."
Seriously, you are blaming it all on the banks following Gramm-Leach? Wow. Just wow.
You know, you conservatives were a lot more fun to argue with when you weren't so slavishly devoted to your ideology. (Where have I heard that one?)
Try rereading my post tomorrow when you are more awake...it's pretty simple.
The Republican dominated state of South Dakota funds its children, elderly and most vulnerable through activities (gambling and legalized usurious lending) that don't necessarily line up with the traditional Bliblical values that they like to parade on main street.
Jana,
I without a doubt believe that the Depression-era Glas-Steagall Act that prevented commercial banks from being in the investment banking and other risky/volatile businesses was and is critical to stability of our finance system. Gram-Leach shattered that restriction and DIRECTLY led to the massive expansion/creation of Citi, Bank of America, JPMorgan/Chase as well of the merger after merger of the various Wall Street firms. And it was this concentration plus the governmental underwriting of non-creditworthiness home mortgages via Fannie and Freddie that allowed the perfect storm to occur. And unfortunately, The total dud for a financial "reform bill" did not change either reality-The biggest banks are getting bigger and Fannie/Freddie is underwriting 90% of the home mortgages.
Instead D-Frank attempted to deal with the symptoms of the disease (govt. underwriting of private risk taking) which actually encourage more risk taking with more regulations which only the largest institutions can comply with making more consolidation adding again to risk.
And before you talk about ideology, I am defending an FDR law which for 70 years was protected mostly by Democrats from being weakened and I hold Clinton never would have allows the GOP in Congress to pass but Rubin's Citigroup relationship.
And in 2008, I opposed TARP unless it included a requirement the big banks divested if non-commercial banking endeavors within 3 years. This isn't ideological.
If you want to talk gambling, we can have that conversation but I don't like it's continued expansion.
Regarding usury, D-F is having a perverse effect of both diminishing available capital to the poor and pushing them into more onerous sources of capital (pay day loans, pawn shops, and even black market lenders that are laundering drug cartel profits).
I think you and I agree on the motivation for D-F. Unfortunately, what it has the perverse effect of making everything worse. Everything.
Jana, I think what Troy is saying is that Dodd-Frank legalized gambling in the banking industry. If so, Troy is basically agreeing with us, isn't he?
(You have to watch Troy carefully... sometimes it's hard to tell when he's on your side, or conversely, when you're on his. He's one of those [rare] old time Repubs who actually likes to think outside the box. ...think about it... when was the last time you heard a GOP guy calling for MORE regulation [excluding social issues, of course]. LOL.)
above...I don't mean Dodd-Frank, I mean Gram-Leach... sorry.
For reader review:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm–Leach–Bliley_Act
Hey Stacey Nelson, how about a bill that repeals the laws that allow preditory lenders to mercilessly harass (and ultimately destroy) debtors?
Make bankruptcy a safe harbor for the little guy like it is for the big corps.
It's not right that a guy like Mitt Romney can use bankruptcy as a tool to enrich himself and stockholders while throwing people out of their jobs and gutting companies that create jobs. And then allow lenders to use those same laws to break the backs of people who get sick and can't pay their medical bills or who get fired by ruthless corporate raiders and can't keep up with their mortgage and credit card payments and interest rates.
Pass your UA, guaranteed: http://everythingurine.com/
Bill, the fair collection practice act does not allow harassing to collect debt. Bankruptcy is not to be a safe harbor for anyone and it is neither for people or stockholders. In both cases, it is a pretty good system for all.
Romney didn't use bankruptcy. The people he sold the companies did but that doesn't reflect on him.
Whatever you say, Troy. I've seen first-hand what debt collectors do to people who don't know the ropes. It's not pretty.
Romney is immoral in my book for any number of reasons. But then, I probably wouldn't vote for him even if he wasn't. I can't see any reason he's running other than perhaps that being POTUS is on his bucket list.
If abuses still are committed by banks, there is recource. My suspicion is essentially eliminated and only done by rogue non-bank lenders.
By the way, I think Romney is one of a long line of fundamentally personally moral POTUS candidates. Don't confuse immorality with policy differences. We do that too much, on both sides.
"First you have to de-program."
I already de-programed the New Age indoctrination, when are you going to get it done?
The abuse is done first by bank collectors, then by the collection agencies they hire, then by law enforcement. There is no escape unless you know the ropes. If you can't afford to hire someone to help or don't know anyone who has been through it, you're in a world of hurt. The whole system is merciless, by and large, Troy.
Remind me to tell you about a call I got from a guy who said he could help me collect on my old receivables a few weeks back. Pretty funny. You wouldn't believe what a total meathead he was.
(p.s. I don't have any collection problems [thank goodness]... I just wanted to hear the guy out and see what his pitch was.)
Steve, I probably "got it done" about 35 years before you did. I've been studying comparative religion, philosophy, cultures and worldviews since I was 16. I am now 61.
I have friends who did what it sounds like you did. Wasted themselves so thoroughly they never completely made it back.
You need to learn to stop blaming that on the rest of us, Sibby.
Own your own shit.
It's your problem, not ours.
More: http://feministing.com/2012/02/28/infographic-global-warming-deniers-are-full-of-s/
(Sibby seems to think that just because he got messed up once "back in the day" and into some bad trips, the whole world is that way and he has to save us. It's not like that, man. That's narcissistic and grandiose-delusional personality disorder, compounded by paranoia. If it's what's really going on for you, get help. If you're doing it to try to persuade people with weak minds, stop it. The former is sick, the latter is immoral. There is no upside.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_complex
In what district are you going to run, Bill? I'm registered in Montana.
I work on the other side of the cameras, Larry.
guess i've always called it redeemer complex as a sufferer myself...rep. nelson is hardly immune.
Ha! A lot of you boys applying for the M job, huh?
No wonder the blogs are so interesting. A whole bunch of holy men looking for congregations, each trying to jockey the others into the trick bag. Excellent. A virtual on-line seminary.
Vice President Gore is afflicted, too: http://blog.algore.com/2012/02/keep_climate_denial_out_of_the.html
"I probably “got it done†about 35 years before you did."
Bill, you are living in a delusion. You are one of the finest examples of a New Ager.
Whatever, Steve. So what, by the way?
Had to scroll back to top to see what this discussion actually concerned.
Stace is interesting, but seems more of something like a canary in a coal mine. He is a Republican reminder of what is wrong with a Republican majority and Governor with near absolute control and power. We have all heard "power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Stace seems more adept at pointing out the problem than do Democrats.
I get your point Jana, and you are right on the money.
There are many ways to help those who struggle economically other than charging usurious rates on loans.
The theme of the New Testament is quite clear. Jesus enunciated it over and over. He said it in the Sermon on the Mount. I regularly fail at it, as does every other human being. That does not make it invalid, or preclude anyone from trying.
I think the difference with some politicians, especially Repubs, is that they separate individual sin from systemic sin.
We have many laws on all levels of government that codify systemic sin. About half a century ago, our law books were rife with racial systemic sin. Much of that is gone. Now the Repup leadership seems focused on financial systemic sin, and gender-based systemic sin.
These financial systemic sins are in direct conflict with Jesus' teachings. Same is true of the gender-based systemic sins.
I'm sure there are several who will argue with the gender-based sins. There are biblical texts one can find to support gender-based discrimination, and I'm certain they'll be posting here, with great self-righteousness and -justification.
I wonder how they'll try to justify systemic financial sin?
Wow, that was certainly great self righteousness and self justification.
blizzard much, TJ?
scotch is a poor surrogate
for a big hooter....
Larry, I am Jack guy. Come to Sfalls and I will buy you one.