Press "Enter" to skip to content

North Dakota Enjoys Benefits of Socialist State Bank and Mill

Who says socialism doesn't work? North Dakota operates the Bank of North Dakota (that's a bank with .gov as its Web suffix) and the North Dakota Mill and Elevator Association, and they feel fine:

All state revenues are deposited in the Bank of North Dakota, which promotes agriculture, commerce and industry in the state. It was the first bank in the country to provide a federally insured low-interest student loan; it supports new farmers in a state that has some of the toughest laws in the country limiting corporate farms; and through partnerships with local banks, it guarantees loans to commercial and industrial enterprises that directly benefit North Dakota. Before he became governor and then a United States senator, John Hoeven, a Republican, was the bank's president. A Socialist Republican? That's weird.

The high-tech grain elevator and mill towering above the prairies in Grand Forks is one of the largest and busiest in the country. The North Dakota Mill and Elevator Association competes with private grain elevators and mills but receives no taxpayer money to give it an unfair advantage and, like the bank, the association returns much of its annual profit to North Dakota's general fund. Isn't that socialism? [Gretchen Dykstra, "Pragmatism on the Prairie," New York Times, 2012.03.30]

Perhaps living on the great northern tundra helps focus a community's attention on practical policy more than ideology. North Dakota's state bank and state grain elevator work. They are also socialism.

78 Comments

  1. Nick Nemec 2012.04.02

    One of the biggest mistakes Bill Janklow ever made was the sale of the South Dakota State Cement Plant.

  2. Rorschach 2012.04.02

    Agreed, Nick. But at least we have a state grain elevator now up around Redfield somewhere, don't we?

  3. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    So, with state banks we have no need for the Federal Reserve...right?

  4. Mark 2012.04.02

    Cory, as I wince at your description of the "great northern tundra" (the truth hurts after all --- especially about five months a year) I'd like to also inform your readers that our Republican U.S. Senator John Hoeven is a former president of the Bank of North Dakota. We Nodakers are a radical lot.

  5. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Not to mention the People's Republic of Bookings...

    Have they "divested" yet? Or does the city still own all the power, water, waste and communications utilities and the liquor store?

  6. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Yes, America is already 80% socialist. Now we should understand the real cause of the federal debt...to fund the inefficiencies of a flawed economic system.

  7. LK 2012.04.02

    Mark,

    You should also mention another example of radical behavior. Former state tax commissioners Dorgan, Conrad, and Pomeroy had successful careers in Washington.

  8. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    Grand Forks is signatory to the bold initiatives of Agenda 21: ICLEI.

  9. Mark 2012.04.02

    80% --- ? (Steve Sibson @ 9:16). Where is that figure from?

    My guess is there are many definitions of "socialism." Interstate highway system, state colleges and universities, public use airports, public schools? Many enterprises are done by the government because only the government will do it or the private sector either won't or can't profitably.

    Effective and efficient public service is a worthy goal, but if needed services for the common good can't be provided by private enterprise (because it isn't otherwise profitable) then
    those services have to be provided by somebody else.

    All for efficacy and effciency, mind you, but let's look at this fairly.

    While our "flaw economic system" is not perfect, it does provide for the common good, and facilitates services and systems (infrastructure, air traffic control, weather services, among them) that helps the private sector have a shot at profitability.

    Good Democrats, Republicans, and independents, I should think, buy into this basic premise.

    Specific programs? Fine. Let the public policy debate go forward. But first, let's define our terms, starting with "socialism" and cite the sources for our facts, such as "80%" is socialist."

  10. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    Mark: Sibson isn't married to the facts; he's a member of JBS.

  11. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    'But first, let’s define our terms, starting with “socialism” and cite the sources for our facts, such as “80%” is socialist.”'

    Kitty Werthmann said that Saturday. She was in Austria during the days of Hitler, so she should know. Socialism has various forms. There is Communism, fascism, and/or Corporate socialism, and or communitarism, etc.

  12. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Larry, you lied. I am not a member of the JBS.

  13. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    That's not an answer, Sibby. That's an obfuscation.

  14. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Sibby, if it looks like a duck, walks like duck and quacks like a duck...

  15. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "I’d like to hear Sibby explain how his worldview differs from these JBS core principles"

    Bill I disagree with the premise that a Mormon Theocracy is how those ends are achieved. Unlike you, I believe the ends do not automatically justify the means.

  16. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Got it. Thanks Steve. So you agree with the ends but not the means... mainly because you think the JBS is a Mormon based group, and you are anti-Mormon, is that correct?

  17. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Understood, Sibby. So it's not enough to just be religious and ultra-conservative or Christian and ultra-conservative with you, right? You are advocating for a very specific, dogmatic form of theocracy, I take it.

  18. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Bill, did you read the entire link? This is not a short simple issue to address.

  19. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    You're a white supremacist, Sibby: what's so hard to address?

  20. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    No, I didn't read the whole link, Sibby. Do you recommend it? Does it represent your worldview better than any of your other links? How about the one Larry just provided about the Sovereign Citizen Movement? Is that the same thing? Or different?

  21. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "No, I didn’t read the whole link, Sibby."

    I didn't think so. You and Larry could care less about truth, because you two do not believe in truth, you only believe in yourselves. So go ahead and keep making up lies about me and other Christians because that is what New Age Theocrats do.

  22. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    New Age Theocrat: I'm starting to like that label...ObamaCare has a nice ring to it, too.

  23. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Okay, now I read the whole thing. It looks like you are anti-Catholic too, right, Sibby?

  24. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    (...notice, Sibby never answers questions. He just points fingers.)

  25. Troy Jones 2012.04.02

    From Sibby's link regarding the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City:

    "He told me that there was a council room up there which was an exact replica of the Oval Office of the White House. He told me they even had all the radio and telemetry equipment in place, hidden beneath a dome on top of the temple. He said that from this council room, the prophet could run the nation just as easily as he could from the White House itself. He also claimed that these electronic devices on the roof were so strong that airlines had to avoid flying right over the temple or their instruments might be thrown off."

    I know this to be true. Once when flying into Salt Lake, I saw the pilots and flight attendants all put on a tin foil hat. I was scared as I had left mine at home. I now know I was zapped with a "pro-Romney" disposition.

  26. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    The Vatican is a rogue nation.

  27. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Oooh... sad story, Troy. I wonder if that can be undone? Maybe Larry knows. He travels a lot. LOL.

  28. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    The Vatican is the oldest (and I believe the largest) continuously operating institution on the planet. Everything else is a pup by comparison. James Joyce called it H.C.E. as in "Here Comes Everybody."

  29. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    Money-laundering and kiddie diddling is just part of the Popezi scheme: NPR.

  30. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Troy, and imagine some spirit being leading you to tablets of gold.

  31. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "ObamaCare has a nice ring to it, too."

    And Romney implemented ObamaCare in Massachusetts before Obama became president.

  32. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Just for fun, lets add the fact the Glenn Beck is also a Mormon to this discussion. And David Barton is a big fan and supporter of Beck.

  33. Troy Jones 2012.04.02

    Steve,

    It's all why I never leave home without a roll of tin foil.

  34. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Which one is the Devil, Sibby?

  35. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Why do liberals use conspiracy theory rheotic to ignore dealing with issues?

  36. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Troy, in a pinch, I think you can just use a gum wrapper or a Hershey bar (or Kit-Kat) liner. That's what I do. Just enough to cover the bald spot in the back. Otherwise, I just keep my hair long like Sampson (and Sibby.)

  37. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    What's the issue again, Sibby? I keep forgetting.

  38. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "Which one is the Devil, Sibby?"

    I think some call it Satan and others Lucifer. I think it is both.

  39. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "What’s the issue again, Sibby?"

    Whether or not I am a JBS member. Why don't you guys get a membership list if you don't believe me?

  40. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    Troy, if Romney becomes president, will we have separation of Mormon Church and state?

  41. Troy Jones 2012.04.02

    Well Steve,

    You don't believe anyone who says they don't belong to the New World Theocracy. Find names on the membership list.

    By the way, I resent the bad name of the JBS, the Jolly Belly School for the Advancement of Portly Bloggers (JBS as JBSAPB was confused with the Jim Beam Shooters of Arch-Progressive Bloggers), in an effort to engender a more tolerant attitude for the those of us with beer bellies. I think this secret plot to destroy the reputation of the JBS is just another conspiracy of the NWO (New World Oddfellows).

    P.S. Bill, a Kit Kat liner? You gotta be kidding me. That isn't even real candy. You think its liner is going to protect me from the rays causing me to think the Twins will start the season sweeping the Orioles? Sheesh. Another false promise by a liberal. I'm on to you.

  42. LK 2012.04.02

    Am I the only one who finds it ironic that we are spending a lot of time discussing Romney in the comments of a post about a state with a government run bank and a state that gave more delegates to Santorum & Paul than it did to Romney?

    By the way, I agree with Bill that long hair does seem to reduce the need for a tinfoil hat.

  43. Mark 2012.04.02

    Bill, Troy, LK -
    Feel like I should've paid a cover charge today...

  44. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Troy... curses... foiled again.

  45. LK 2012.04.02

    Troy,

    You really think it's a liberal plot that the Orioles haven't named a starter for Friday?

  46. Troy Jones 2012.04.02

    Mark, please send donation to the JBS (not the Jim Beam Shooters as they are not really legitimate).

    Bill, you are pretty easy.

    LK, well duh. The Orioles are owned by a big liberal. You libs can't see the obvious. I think you have succumbed to what is called the "Will to Disbelieve."

  47. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    Dithmer announces AWPA games and rules for the World Wide Church of Bill at ip.

  48. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "Am I the only one who finds it ironic that we are spending a lot of time discussing Romney in the comments of a post about a state with a government run bank and a state that gave more delegates to Santorum & Paul than it did to Romney?"

    Larry accused me of being factually incorrect about America being 80% socialism. Based on Cory (see the title of this post) and the rest of you liberals, I thought I would get applause instead of being falsely accused by Larry of being a JBS member. And yes, Romney implemented the socialist Health-care plan in Massachusetts.

  49. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "You don’t believe anyone who says they don’t belong to the New World Theocracy."

    It is New Age Theocracy. And I don't beleive there is a membership list to Cory's muched memed Christian Theocracy.

  50. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    Wasn't me but i'll bet it's more like 100%, Sibby. So?

  51. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    "So?"

    That flawed economic system explains our out of control debt, along with Europe's. But not to worry. Joseph Smith's White Horse Mormon prophesy says that the Mormon's will save America.

  52. Bill Fleming 2012.04.02

    Ahem... it's the "New World Order," and The "New Age Theocracy."

    (Hey, I know my SibStuff, boys.)

    And yeah. We should maybe all give him a hearty round of applause.

    He brings meaning to our collective Monday madness.

  53. larry kurtz 2012.04.02

    Go read Blanchard, Sib: he says it's because white people in the US and Europe have quit breeding while colored people haven't. It's all the rage among you earth haters.

  54. grudznick 2012.04.02

    Stop quoting made-up numbers, Mr. Sibby, you know better than that. And quoting numbers from that source, a contemporary of mine, really puts on on the fringe, my friend. Even I have a better grasp with two fists on reality.

  55. Steve Sibson 2012.04.02

    I have disclosed that it was Kitty whose opinion is that Merica is currently 80% socialism. Sounds like Cory and his fellow New Age Theocrats want the percentage higher no manner where it is at now. Isn't where we are going the real issue?

  56. mhs 2012.04.02

    Well, hate to drag this string back on to topic, but, gotta do it. I competed with BND for many, many years. The reason they make money? Easy, they cherry-pick all the best deals to the strongest (read: wealthiest) borrowers, then give them below market rates of interest.

    Socialism? I'd call it more good-old-boy cronyism for the wealthy.

  57. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.04.02

    Back on topic? Yes, please!

    So flesh out the obvious question for me: why is the state able to offer those wealthiest borrowers the best deal? Are the new farmers the bank lends to really all rich guys?

  58. Steve Sibson 2012.04.03

    I have been saying that government makes big business big. When are you big government sociaist going to wake up? When you lessen competition, then the economic system is not as efficient and needs to borrow money to maintain itself. The result...the huge federal debt that is now out of control.

  59. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.04.03

    Competition is not always more efficient. The federal government imposed all sorts of socialism on industry during World War II, because we didn't have the time or resources for competing producers to manufacture competing brands of tanks and planes and see which ones succeeded on the battlefield.

  60. Steve Sibson 2012.04.03

    Cory, WWII is over. And for some time now.

  61. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.04.03

    Sure, but WWII stands as a historical counterexample to your claim that socialism is inefficient.

  62. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.04.03

    ...and hey, you're the one who's still fighting the Revolutionary War.

  63. Steve Sibson 2012.04.03

    Cory what is efficient about blowing up buildings and killing people?

  64. Steve Sibson 2012.04.03

    And it was the debt to finance wars that allowed the International Bankers to take over this country.

  65. Bill Fleming 2012.04.03

    Here's another way to explore this topic maybe. I propose that human society in its natural (pre-law) state is socialist, and necessarily so. Were it otherwise, we wouldn't be here as a species.

  66. larry kurtz 2012.04.03

    Native America before European invasion, for example. The US is merely transitioning to its pre-invasion roots.

  67. Bill Fleming 2012.04.03

    Yes, Larry, exactly. Socialism is the "old way" not the "new way." It is a fundamental, natural behavior principle of our species. A prime directive from the "creator" (to put it in Sibby terms).

    When Cain protested to God that he wasn't his brother's keeper, he got in a whole bunch of trouble for it.

    (Also perhaps esoterically worthy of note here... Cain's sacrifice was vegitarian, and the Old Man didn't much care for that either.)

  68. larry kurtz 2012.04.03

    Sure, the metaphor suggests that the farmer slew the hunter/gatherer putting man before god ending humanity's tenue in Paradise.

    How jesus saves us from that was perverted by Paul and his contemporaries to fund the Holy Roman Kiddie Diddlers in their global conquest.

  69. larry kurtz 2012.04.03

    tenure.

    The eradication of the 13 moon calendar by the pope gregory effectively made 'pagans' less than human so converting them into slavery or extirpating them sailed its way into history.

    Poof! Calvinism! America! Empire!

    Statehood for the tribes and Mexico.

  70. larry kurtz 2012.04.03

    "Eight of the 10 least-healthy counties are home to large populations of Native Americans in the Dakotas, Alaska and Montana, according to the U.S. Census." Bloomberg.

  71. D.E. Bishop 2012.04.03

    When Bill, Larry, and Sibson - with occasional additions from Troy - get going, it's better than therapy!

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. From the heart of my bottom!

Comments are closed.