My friend and pillar of the community Dick Wiedenman weighs in on Madison's proposed taxpayer-subsidized yet publicly unaccountable thrift store. Wiedenman proposes alternative uses for the buildings the city and LAIC would destroy to make way for the thirft shop, as well as for the $150,000 taxpayer dollars the city would sink into it:
Since parking isn't a problem in many cities, the bar and cafe shouldn't be considered for purchase or demolition. Since many businesses fail within a year, it may be wise to use the Jensen building for a year to determine whether this adventure will succeed. Since Madison keeps raising rates and is over $18 million in debt, perhaps some caution is advisable [Dick Wiedenman, letter to the editor, Madison Daily Leader, 2012.06.21, p. 3].
As Madison residents know, Dick Wiedenman is perhaps Madison's greatest authority on secondhand junk; we should thus heed his words on the million-dollar secondhand shop.
I met another young family today that told me they drive to Sam's Club to do their grocery shopping. They can't afford to shop here. It's disturbing our city leaders turn a blind eye to the real needs of the community. What a huge loss, not just of tax revenue but the anchor another grocery store would be. Almost everyone agrees on this, yet ..................
John, I'm going to have to challenge your assumptions on this:
1. No local grocery store will be able to match the prices of Sam's Club. They brutally negotiate with suppliers to get the best possible price.
2. How do you know that leaders have not approached area store chains to place a grocery store in Madison?
3. Do you realize how much time local leaders devote to attracting new industries and businesses to Madison?
Some would have us believe that there is a conspiracy among anyone associated with the Chamber or LAIC to keep wages low and protect against possible competitors. This is a slap in the face to local business owners that literally neglect their own enterprises to try to bring more employers to Madison. They give up their own time to show off Madison to business owners looking to expand or relocate. Most of these we aren't going to hear about. Some will happen down the road.
When you are trying to attract business, confidentiality is the rule. We might not like it but that's how businesses looking to expand or relocate.
Now if you want to start a business or know of someone that could fill a need that we are missing in Madison, give the LAIC a call or stop by their office.
Michael, on #2 and #3, we don't know... and that's part of the problem. Our leaders (both elected and de facto) don't involve the public in decision-making and action. They simply expect us to acquiesce to their use of our tax dollars on faith. I have no problem slapping people in the face to wake them up to how they should be operating in the name of the community. And I refuse to grant any credence to things that I don't and can't hear about. If we don't hear about it, it doesn't exist.
Our "leaders" mistake confidentiality for license to do whatever they want, without seeking public input. They think confidentiality means keeping secrets from us about determining our own needs and wants. What needed to be kept confidential about the brainstorming process for this thrift store? If they hadn't kept it confidential, they might have learned right away that the demand for such a store is minimal compared to much greater needs in the community.
There are those with altruistic motives, but do we disregard all the stories about Madison businesses working to prevent competitors. An LAIC supporter (his father an original member) told me Wenks were not happy when the LAIC was formed because it would be a threat to their wage rate. Fast forward and many, not just the vocal posters here, think the LAIC does the same thing to protect its members and keep some employers out. Julie Gross will be a breath of fresh air but will the nature of the LAIC change? Duane Chapel was defensive toward anything that didn't coincide with the agenda in place. He ran me through an extensive plan before saying Madison had a thriving downtown. An amazing statement considering the decaying buildings and empty storefronts. So do our city fathers work on projects with priorities we want? I hear a universal no, and a very vocal one when this thrift store comes up. There are business people who readily admit feeling pressured to shop Madison, but most people need affordable groceries so they are forced to drive out of town. That's a really bad situation which makes our community much less attractive and competitive. So it's not a conspiracy, but some connected businessmen acting in their best interest. For rhetorical purposes my preference is the Madison Mafia or the Lake Area Cartel. Oh yeah, Michael likes to call them Friends. With friends like that you're paying a lot of money for groceries!
Why would they not be my friends?
I can strongly disagree with someone and still respect them and value them as a friend.
We moved to Madison in 2000 and although I was initially excited about the move to a much smaller town than we were used to, we found out in a short time how expensive it is to live here. Before we moved, I had researched Madison online and found that it offered a daily newspaper, library, book store, a shoe store, JCPenney, a Hallmark, gift shops, restaurants, two grocery stores, a movie theatre, hospital, furniture store, bowling alley, two video stores, a craft/fabric store, Pamida, and a new Community Center. We thought 'wow, just about everything you could really possibly want or need in a small town'. Unfortunately with the price of diapers, wipes, pull-ups, and such in Madison, we were forced to start shopping in Sioux Falls, Brookings, or Watertown about once a week. Gas of course was much cheaper then, but it's really quite sad to see how many businesses Madison's lost since we moved here. Our needs have changed as the kids have gotten older and with the price of gas, we shop out of town far less often. It is not just groceries that are expensive here, so let's stop singling out Sunshine! Pamida's and Lewis' aren't much better. I am more than willing to pay *slightly* more than Walmart or Target prices to shop in town locally. But when anything that comes in a jar, can, or a box costs two or three times what you can pay somewhere else, I refuse to pay those prices unless it's an urgent need. I do think Sunshine does have comparable prices to Walmart on produce, baked goods, and dairy items.
Madison is still a wonderful community and there have been many improvements we've seen since we've lived here too. The Gerry Maloney Nature Park is amazing, our city parks are great, we have a wonderful new Aquatic Center, and the bike trail is a great addition. Prairie Village and two state parks are very close by. Our kids are getting a good education here from great teachers, and they've been able to find part-time jobs.
I guess my point is that there are some really great things about Madison, yet there of course are things that can be improved. These are just thoughts and observations from someone who moved here from another state. Awhile back I think there was a survey from the city of what businesses people think Madison needs. Were the results ever published anywhere? If there are large percentages of the population wanting to see certain businesses, those are the ones LAIC should be focusing on and we need to hold their feet to the fire to make sure they happen. No more rumored secret deals between businesses and the city.
Thank you, Paula. Your comment highlights an important challenge in having this discussion. There are indeed many great things about Madison. Some people think that when we criticize one project or policy, we are denigrating all of those positives. That is not true. We can like the parks and Prairie Village and still complain (rightfully so) about the lack of certain affordable goods and services. I can respect Don Amert and Jeff Bloom and still say that their thrift store idea is bad.
Might you be thinking of the survey of retail perception done by a Leadership Madison group in fall 2010? That survey didn't find anyone clamoring for a new thrift store. The LAIC was supposed to follow up on that "Buy Local" survey. The LAIC seems to have forgotten.
I think we are talking about two separate things in these discussions. The idea behind the thrift store is to yield more funds for local social services. Much of this discussion is focused on the need for a second grocery store in Madison.
I feel the proposed thrift store idea is bad because of the amount of money the committee wants to invest up front in order to get a hoped for return later on. I cannot for the life of me see the wisdom in investing over a million dollars if the whole idea is to have more money for the poor. Why not invest a much lower amount in an existing, now vacant structure that would yield a bigger profit sooner and just as efficiently as a brand new buiding? Someone please explain to us the reasoning behind the need for a new expensive building. This to me is what this discussion should be about.
A competition in groceries is a good topic of discussion also, but I think we are losing the focus here regarding the thrift store.
I can see your point, Linda. The thrift store is part of a much larger and more complicated discussion about how a community should operate, how it should involve all citizens in honest and open discussion and determination of shared vision, community needs, and plans of action. The thrift store faces stiff opposition in large part because, like so many other projects, a handful of elites made all the decisions without engaging the public and now want the public to hand over the money to support the vision of a few, ignoring other clear needs perceived by the public, like the need for more retail competition.
But you are right, Linda, that in that conversation, we mustn't lose sight of the hard fact that the thrift store proposal is in and of itself a bad idea. It wastes public dollars on a weak (non-existent!) business plan. It privatizes public dollars and decision-making authority. It is not based on any reliable assessment of the market.
I've been a lurker here for a long time and have held back voicing an opinion many, many times. So sorry Linda, if my post was too off-topic; I will go back to keeping my thoughts to myself.
Paula, please don't leave! I wasn't criticizing you at all. We need all the posters and opinions we can get on all subjects. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you - I didn't mean to.
I agree that the two subjects are intertwined too. But my main concern here is that taxpayers are asking to put a lot of money into a project ostensibly to help the poor in this county, when the same result should be attainable with much lower input costs.
Again, please don't leave! Your post was on target about the businesses that Madison has lost. I used to be able to buy almost anything in Madision, and did. I couldn't even find a zipper in town a couple of years ago and was surprised.
Ooops, "...taxpayers are BEING ASKED (not asking) to put a lot of money into..."
It's my hope that the LAIC members and the city and county commissioners are reading all these posts to do with Madison. There's a lot to be improved! And people have great ideas and legitimate complaints. I do have a little different perspective on the Madison community because a few months ago, there was a benefit for our family to off-set my husband's medical expenses from two brain surgeries the past year. So I tend to see great things about the people of Madison, and how giving this community has been.
It would be foolish to not try the Thrift Shop for a couple of years in a temporary facility to see how successful it first, before asking the taxpayers to support it.
I'm with Linda, Paula: don't feel unwanted! Our voices can sound harsher on in print than face-to-face. I welcome your observations on the grocery situation as a very relevant part of this discussion of a really complicated issue. When we talk to our city and county commissioners, we definitely should discuss these broader issues and more pressing priorities, like bringing in grocery competition (why not build a downtown home for the farmers market and other local production?). At the same time, following Linda's concern, when the city fathers try to poo-poo that response and say that groceries are a whole separate issue that they don't want to talk about during the thrift store debate, we can be ready to turn around and argue that the thrift store in and of itself is a bad idea.
And Paula, your perspective on the community is valuable. Could I ask you a favor? I don't know how many LAIC members and elected commissioners read the comments here. But if you know some of those folks, would you forward these conversations to them? And encourage them to come here and join us in this useful conversation!