- Jan
15
2013
The loony South Dakota Gun Owners had to come out of the woodwork sooner or later. SDGO chief lobbyist Zach Lautenschlager issued a press release yesterday praising House Bill 1010, this year's retread version of his group's effort to eliminate permits, background checks, and sensible police searches of folks carrying concealed weapons. Much like Lautenschlager, this bill is dangerous and unnecessary.
In his press release, Lautenschlager makes this dubious claim about the history of guns saving lives:
On the other hand, hundreds if not thousands of lives have been saved by armed citizens. For example, attempted shootings at the Appalachian School of Law, the Pearl High School in Mississippi and New Life Church in Colorado were all halted by ordinary people [Zach Lautenschlager, press release, South Dakota Gun Owners, 2013.01.14].
Ordinary people?
- Appalachian Law School: the three students who subdued the shooter in this 2002 incident were a sheriff's deputy, a former police officer, and a former Marine and former police officer. One of these three men retrieved a gun from his car, but another (corroborated by the police report) says the assailant had already laid his weapon down when they approached him and subsequently tackled him.
- Pearl High School: in this 1997 incident, assistant principal Joel Myrick subdued a student who killed two and wounded seven. Myrick was a commander in the Army Reserve. He wasn't carrying a concealed weapon; he ran to his truck to retrieve a gun after the shooter ceased fire and tried to escape. The gun did not stop the shooting; it stopped the escape.
- New Life Church: in this 2007 incident, Jeanne Assam shot an armed assailant several times. The wounded assailant then killed himself. Assam was a trained police officer; as a volunteer on the church's security team, she identified herself as a police officer to the assailant. She rarely takes that gun out of its case anymore.
Good examples, Zach... of trained military and law enforcement personnel using firearms. Now, would you care to provide even a single example of "ordinary people" whose self-defensive capacity would be enhanced by your useless HB 1010?
Pat Powers, dwelling as usual on the personal instead of policy, says Lautenschlager's prickly personality guarantees HB 1010 goes nowhere. I suggest Lautenschlager's failure to offer a honest assessment of recent history should just as effectively tank this concealed-weapons bill.
Bonus Zach Zap: Don't be fooled by Zach's John Wayne fantasies: folks who carry guns are more likely to get killed than those who don't. Plus, the person you're most likely to kill with your gun is yourself.
71 Responses to “Lautenschlager Twists History to Justify Dangerous Concealed Weapons Bill”
"Pat Powers, dwelling as usual on the personal instead of policy, says Lautenschlager's prickly personality guarantees HB 1010 goes nowhere. "
Pat Powers is saying to hell with the conservative merits of the legislation, it is all about blackballing. Typical response from a totalitarian fascist.
And Cory, in all three cases, the citizens showed way more courage and duty as a citizen than you and your totalitarian anti-Constitutional liberals.
My courage is not the question here; the accuracy of Lautenschlager's portrayal of recent history is. If he had courage, he wouldn't twist the truth. If his arguments were correct and his proposals useful, he wouldn't need to.
Cory, the point is that without the gun the citizen would not be able to defend themselves. He is not twisting the truth, you are. The reason those guns were in the trunk of cars and not immediately available while the crimes are in progess is because chickens like you have promoted unconstitutionally implemented gun control laws.
CDC agency NRA fears the most:
"The federal Centers for Disease Control has cut firearms safety research by 96 percent since the mid-1990s, according to one estimate. Congress, pushed by the gun lobby, in 1996 put restrictions on CDC funding of gun research into the budget. Restrictions on other agencies were added in later years. The NRA, the main lobbyist for gun rights, has taken credit for the research halt."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/10/us-usa-guns-scientists-idUSBRE90915F20130110
It's not about courage, it's about common sense. Even the police and military keep thei assault weapons under lock and key until it's time to use them in combat. The idea that common citizens should be allowed to carry weapons of mass destruction around openly and freely is as ridiculous as the fantasy that your government is out to get you or that by carrying such weapons you could overthrow your government should they try to take your guns away. The far right has become epically delusional in this regard and in the process has simply become stooges for the corrupt gun lobbyists and the rapidly declining NRA.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee Sibby. If you get locked up, it won't be because you have firearms, but rather that you have driven yourself bat crap crazy with paranoia to the extent that you have become dangerous to yourself and others.
" If you get locked up, it won't be because you have firearms, but rather that you have driven yourself bat crap crazy with paranoia to the extent that you have become dangerous to yourself and others."
I say the same thing to the idiots demanding more gun control. They want to try to attack the symptoms of the problem thinking it will stop the disease. It's like brushing your butt and hoping your breathe smells better.
Fleming, you are ignoring the very reason the Second Amendment became the "Law of the Land". Clue, it was not about shooting a pheasant for supper with a single shot musket.
Controlling gun violence is not 'gun control:' it is the responsibility of government to protect its citizens from enemies both foreign and domestic.
Gun ownership was defined by the courts not by the Second Amendment.
Ridiculous. Guys, (sibby and db) bearing arms against your government isn't patriotism. It's treason.
"Ridiculous. Guys, (sibby and db) bearing arms against your government isn't patriotism. It's treason."
Tell that to the Jews of Nazi Germany Bill. Are you saying WWII was an unjust war? I say it could have been prevented by the Second Amendment. I do not believe the Second Amendment is about revolution, but preventing tyranny. Understand the difference?
Sibson, Bill doesn't understand history. He isn't aware of the scenario's played out by gov't to eradicate large numbers of people. He doesn't realize every one of them came after disarmament. He thinks the US is immune to any atrocities that have most recently happened in Syria or Egypt or even Iraq. He fails to acknowledge the past. He is bound to repeat it. He sees armed citizens as a threat, not as an insurance policy. He fails to understand the availability of guns has actually decreased, yet mass killings are increasing. Before 1968, we didn't have this big of a problem, yet we now have more gun control and the problem is escalating. They blame guns, because they aren't smart enough to acknowledge anything else.
Here's a good read for you. It will give you a little background that can show you that guns are not the problem. Stupid people are. http://campverdebugleonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=73&ArticleID=37100
What a crock.
Pure baloney.
DB, Bill understands history he just calls the parts that don't fit his worldview baloney. Bill get off your meds, they are causing illusions.
No where in the US Constitution does the right to own arms exist.
http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/11310/armed-citizen-18/
Cory, here is a link to the NRA Armed Citizen archive, It should answer any question you might have with regard to "ordinary people" defending themselves.
"Applying the Second Amendment only to the federal government, and not to the states, persisted for much of the nation's early history. It was sustained in United States v. Cruikshank (1876) to support disarming African-Americans holding arms in self-defense from Klansmen in Louisiana. The Supreme Court held, citizens must "look for their protection against any violation by their fellow-citizens from the state, rather than the national, government.""
DB, it's just sad that poor Bill can't see how we are just like Syria and Egypt. He's probably thinking that we have more in common with Australia, England or any of the other European countries that have gun laws that promote civility.
By the way, I'm playing scrabble and wondering if you and Sibby can help with these letters.
P R A A N O I A
Jana, I don't have the time to explain to you why European solutions won't work in America. You just won't understand it. It's along the same lines of why lowering the drinking age to 16 won't work here. If you call 5 times the number of home invasions, in which you will be charged with a crime if you don't retreat......civility, then count me out. Paranoia belongs to the left for fear of something that isn't even the problem.
shorter, DumbButt: you don't have a clue.
Stay classy Larry.....
sidenote: Troy deleted Julie/DB's off-color comments at the War Toilet.
Just goes to show how horrible your deductive reasoning is....
Hitler relaxed gun laws.
"“The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,” Harcourt wrote. Meanwhile, many more categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years."
"The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns..."
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/
Huh: Amerikan Carrion is no longer in the War Toilet blogroll.
"Troy deleted Julie/DB's off-color comments at the War Toilet."
And Pat Powers removed by web stie from his sidebar after my latest post on thin-skinned RINOs.
Jana, paranoid that she might get shot by a gun, so ban them. Then what, empty all the prisons and let them run the streets?
More on borderline personality disorder:
http://www.psypost.org/2013/01/borderline-personality-disorder-the-perfect-storm-of-emotion-dysregulation-15963
"folks who carry guns are more likely to get killed than those who don't."
That is where bravery comes into play, something you liberals don't possess.
fools rush in where anglos eat their bread.
It takes more courage to stand up and fight oppression with non-violence than with violence, Sibby.
Just ask Jesus (...or my old boss Cesar Chavez, Or MLK, or Gandhi, or the rebels in Egypt and Tripoli, or the kids in Iran, or...)
"The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "Country" was to preserve the Slave Patrol Militias in the Southern States, which was necessary to get Virginia's vote. Founders Patrick Henry, George Mason, and James Madison were totally clear on that...and we all should be too...Today's Second Amendment is linked to our nation's disturbing history of slavery. In the Beginning, there were the Militias. In the South, they were also called the “Slave Patrols,” and they were regulated by the states."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101792214
"It takes more courage to stand up and fight oppression with non-violence than with violence, Sibby."
It takes no courage to expect the government to oppress those you disagree with.
Larry, so remove the Second Amendment and we all become slaves because there still will be armed patrols controlled by the government.
Find one supporter for removing the Second Amendment on this blog, Steve.
Larry, that is the problem, you want to ban guns before going through the constitutional process to remove the second Amendment. Gun-free zones at the government schools is a violation of the Second Amendment already. How long as that been?
I just want to ban white, christian men from owning guns, Sibby.
And I want to keep lethal weapons away from the insane.
Talk more about that, Bill? Maybe find a DSM evaluation of unfit?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/01/james-holmes-psychiatrist-just-got-sued-not-having-him-locked/61042/
I've seen videos of Gun Shows for one thing, Larry... the insane selling guns by the box-load to the even more insane. Let's start there.
Then, yeah, integrate the med/cop databases. Any nut jobs who pop up on the background check don't get to buy pop guns.
Hey, this ain't rocket science people.
Gun permits should be renewed over time the same way drivers licenses are. If you go blind, you can't drive, if you go nuts, you can't pack heat.
Simple.
It is already illegal to fail an FBI background check: should gun shows be compelled to have ATF at the doors?
I've passed two FBI background checks in the last two years: does that make me fit to own a firearm?
five years, sorry.
Should I go buy this gun?
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Restricted-weapons-legally-on-sale-in-Stafford-4193647.php
ATF has been running without a department head since the Bush Administration thanks to NRA and the gun lobbyists.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/13/1178634/-On-the-ATF-Director-or-the-conspicuous-lack-of-same#
The place is a mess. Let's fix it.
Larry, I don't know if you're a nut job or if you just play one on TV.
What does your shrink tell you?
(Rhetorical question. I don't expect an answer ;-)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19372456
Hookah juice floating up through the floorboards, eh?
your story is bogus, grud:
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/actually_pot_may_not_lower_iq_after_all/
Actually, Mr. Kurtz, I back tracked to that older IQ story from this one:
http://www.nature.com/news/pot-smokers-might-not-turn-into-dopes-after-all-1.12207
I just wanted to poke your goat a bit, because my friend Mr. Newland said I should.
a fool and his honey are soon parted.
Are you calling me Newland's girlfriend?
hadn't thought of that, Loy.
Steve at the top: the guns didn't stop the Appalachian Law School shooting or the Pearl High School shooting. In both cases, the shooters had laid their guns down. At Pearl, the shooter was retreating. In all three incidents, the civilians weren't typical concealed-weapons carriers. They were former military and police with training. If you want me to grant a concealed-weapons permit to interested individuals with equivalent training, we can talk. If you want to say every citizen can hide a gun on his or her person in eager anticipation of opening fire on bad guys in a crowded theater, I'm not feeling safer. Lautenschlager's examples all twist history. Even if they were valid, Lautenschlager's vigilante outliers do not warrant the increased danger posed by firearms, nor the psychological and social damage done to our sense of the social contract. Making life more like the Wild West is not progress. It's why we don't live in the Wild West anymore.
I don't attend church often, but when I do, I will not attend a church that lives in fear and has armed security at the doors.
DB, all the guns in our pockets and closet didn't stop the Patriot Act. Our guns do not keep us safe from overreaching government. Our best hope is people educated in civil discourse and democracy, people who value equality and the real liberty of community over the illusions of Ayn Rand/John Wayne individualism, and people who get out and vote.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/School-security-on-the-fast-track-in-Sioux-Falls-4194978.php
If Sibby brushed his butt, would DB's breath smell better?
"Making life more like the Wild West is not progress. It's why we don't live in the Wild West anymore.
I don't attend church often, but when I do, I will not attend a church that lives in fear and has armed security at the doors."
Living in Nazi Germany is worse than the "wild west". You are the one living in fear, otherwise you would have Obama eliminate our standing army. And do you believe the Jews lived in fear during Nazi Germany?
"If you want me to grant a concealed-weapons permit to interested individuals with equivalent training, we can talk. If you want to say every citizen can hide a gun on his or her person in eager anticipation of opening fire on bad guys in a crowded theater, I'm not feeling safer."
It is not up to you, we have the Law of the Land...the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
" GOP: union members/teachers r thugs. GOP: teachers should carry guns. Conclusion: GOP: thugs should carry guns." Steffen Lieber
Sibby , as other commenters have pointed out, the Nazi Germany example is bogus. Hitler loosened gun control rules.
Fear: I'm perfectly fine with military reductions. Are you? Is Zach Lautenschlager? Is Stace Nelson? Is the rest of the GOP, RINO or real?
Your interpretation of the Second Amendment is a recipe for fear, vigilantism, and a degradation of the social contract.
Cory, do yourself a favor and read some real research on the issue:
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/nazism.nra.pdf
So Cory start reading on Page 119 and you will learn that the Nazis relaxed gun laws to those who were Establishment, but put further restrictions on the Jews. If we take Fleming's and Pat Power's approach and restrict the "mentally ill", then what is the definition of mentally ill. Based on posts made by you and comments left by your cohorts, mentally ill would include Christians. Or will the Catholics just include Protestant Christians as mentally ill?
Again, untill you big goermment Marxists from the Democratic left and fascists from the GOP left remove the Second Amenmdnet with the Constitutional process of amendment, your agenda is a violation of America's Law of the Land.
Stephen Halbrook... oh, Steve, how about you give me some real research from someone who doesn't engage in "imaginative manipulation of evidence"?
Give me an example of your "imaginative manipulation of evidence" charge in regard to Nazi Germany Cory.
Gary Marbut is Mr. Laughingslaughter's analog in Montana: he wrote a borderline treasonous letter to the Helena Independent Record. Just wow:
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/montanan-s-won-t-follow-federal-gun-restrictions/article_708aca62-5f2b-11e2-a270-001a4bcf887a.html
In the 10 minutes between posts, I doubt that you read the research. Instead you took the time to personally attack the person. Is that what you call good debate tactics?
FOr you gun banners, the Second Amendment was designed to prevent the following (add the numbers and how mucn greater is that number over 26):
1911 Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
1929 The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
1935 China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
1938 Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 6 to 7 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and 12 million Christians who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
1956 Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
1964 Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
1970 Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cory: new ATF director part of President Obama's 23 executive orders.
More on ATF appointee, B. Todd Jones:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2013/01/16/politics/b-todd-jones-atf-nomination
I just saw an article on the real reason that the constitution gave us the right to bear arms was so the South would know that they could keep their slave patrols so the congress would not be able to stop slavery by stopping the slave owners from having guns to control them. Patrick Henry, George Mason and James Madison were totally clear on this.
This is not the first time that politicians have used a nice sounding reason to put through something that they wanted for other reasons. Just like a right to work law is really a right to keep wages low.
Steve, it's common practice to read reviews of products before buying them. I prefer to buy a car that will get me down the road, not keep drifting into the right ditch. Your source is just another say-anything gun-nut mouthpiece, committed to an agenda over truth.
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