Hat tip to eager reader Sam Peil!
As the National Rifle Association lobbies to increase sales for its client industry, NRA boss Wayne LaPierre contends that "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
This statement is, of course, hogwash:
The teacher stood in the classroom, face-to-face with his 16-year-old student, who was holding a shotgun.
Ryan Heber, 40, talked to the teen, trying to persuade him to end an armed assault in which one student had already been shot.
Heber had no idea whether the student -- whose pockets were filled with ammunition -- would put the gun down or pull the trigger.
Campus supervisor Kim Fields helped distract the teen, allowing other students in the classroom to escape, while Heber talked to him, according to CNN affiliate KGET.
Eventually, the teen let go of the gun, and police took him into custody [Thom Patterson, "Teacher Talks Armed Student into Giving Up, Police Say," CNN.com, 2013.01.11].
In our discussions here of arming our teachers, I have declared my intent to resist that fearful cry and stand instead for civil society and rational discourse. Some commenters have snarkily suggested that I try to debate a school shooter to save my students.
Ryan Heber shows that talking has at least as much chance of stopping an armed assailant as getting into a quick-draw contest. Talking is also less likely to cause collateral damage. And when I'm not using my voice, I don't have to keep it locked up in my desk to keep grouchy students from stealing and wreaking havoc.
Your kids are as safe as they can be. We teachers can keep them safe. We don't need guns to keep them safe.
Who is too crazy to pack heat? Discussion on:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2013/01/17/daily-circuit-gun-control-mentall-illness
"In our discussions here of arming our teachers, I have declared my intent to resist that fearful cry and stand instead for civil society and rational discourse."
Too bad the principle at Sandy Hook isn't here to say hogwash to this post. Again, history shows gun control leads to millions dead. Until the Second Amendment is removed with a Constitutional Amendment, gun restrictions on law abiding citizens is not constitutional. Just because one teacher does not want to excercise their rights does not mean that all teachers cannot excercise their rights. That would be irrational.
What if the "principle" had PTSD as a returning member of the armed forces, Steve: would she have qualified for a gun permit?
No person that survived the carnage at Sandy Hook would pass a psych eval today.
"No person that survived the carnage at Sandy Hook would pass a psych eval today."
Neither would Obama or Biden. Completely irrational response.
yes, kids get curious. and when gun owners don't treat their guns with the respect that is deserved, tragedies can happen. Terrible tragedies.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/latest-news/richmond-man-dies-after-being-accidentally-shot-by--year/article_fb7f76dc-5f2f-11e2-bef3-001a4bcf6878.html
It is natural as human beings to become complacent in our everyday activities (didn't shut coffee pot off, drove off with gas nozzle in car, etc). We are busy with our daily tasks. I've been reading many reports lately about guns left behind in theatres (fell out of owners holster), gun left on countertop in bathroom (owner forgot it) , etc..... why in the world would we want to put this added responsibility on our teachers?? it makes no sense. none.
De-escalation is great, like the teacher in this situation did. Really, let's put the emphasis on letting our teachers do their job of educating their students. Preventative drills are great (I'm sure every school now has one just in case there is an active shooter) to have, and should be done. Proactive stuff. Let's not propose silly type solutions that have a higher degree of resulting in a tragedy.
The NRA morphed under the Southern Stategy that created the New Jim Crow: "But in 1977, things changed. NRA leadership had an internal revolt at its Cincinnati meeting that forced out individuals within the organization who wanted its primary purpose to be promoting sportsmanship and gun safety."
http://boldprogressives.org/for-most-of-its-history-the-nra-actually-backed-sensible-gun-regulation/#.UPgb2R00WSp
Ryan Heber shows that talking has at least as much chance of stopping an armed assailant as getting into a quick-draw contest. Talking is also less likely to cause collateral damage. And when I'm not using my voice, I don't have to keep it locked up in my desk to keep grouchy students from stealing and wreaking havoc.
Great! Next time I'm out and about in the wilds of Wyoming or Montana, I'll remember that idea should I encounter an angry grizzly or moose.
I'll just talk 'er down.
After all, a wild animal is more likely to listen to reason than a loon with an automatic weapon.
Citizen with CCW didn't even know the gun had fallen out of its holster! Now that's responsible!!
http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_22394977
And Stan, seriously?
Red states could abuse provisions in Obama plan to feed school to prison pipeline:
http://aboriginalpressnews.tumblr.com/post/40795548488/colorlines-obamas-gun-control-plan-could-worsen
My third grade son I think sums up my stance on this issue. I asked how he would feel if his teachers carried a gun, and he said no way because he would be afraid that they might get mad at him and shoot him. He loves his teacher and knows that he is safe with her, but the possibility of having guns in the school worries him. Education is hampered when fear is allowed to rule the day.
excellent post, MJL. Leave it to a child to put things into perspective. Thanks for sharing!
MJL, you tell that boy he's got it right. Tell him I said so. It's hard to learn when you are afraid.
Steve, get a grip. Ryan Heber exercised something enormously more important than his Second Amendment right: he exercised his faith in humanity, in words, and in the social contract.
"Ryan Heber exercised something enormously more important than his Second Amendment right: he exercised his faith in humanity, in words, and in the social contract."
Yes, I know Cory, you hate the Second Amendment. You must also hate the process to amend the Constitution.
"MJL, you tell that boy he's got it right."
So the reason you don't want to exercise your Second Amendment right in school is that you will shoot the kids you are mad at? And that, along with the statements of MJL's three year old, is a reflection of "faith in humanity"? If you had did have faith in humanity you would trust your fellow man with a very important component of the social contract...the Second Amendment. Sorry you don't have faith in your own humanity.
Sibson, do you open carry a firearm at your job?
Fleming, do you know the difference between the private and public sectors and where the Second Amendment applies?
Sibby, don't be coy, do you open carry a firearm at your job?
Big Pharma, psychotropics linked to gun violence:
http://interested-party.blogspot.com/2013/01/big-pharma-linked-to-gun-violence.html
HB 1087, for everyone who feels strongly on this issue here is your chance to let your comments be heard in a place where they might mean something. Go testify.....
That is right Larry, the secular scientific humanist worldview that has replaced the Biblical Christian worldview is the core source of most of our problems. That the core source to our increase in crime and now the SDGOP, with the support of Demcorats, want to solve the problem with more secular scientifc humanist shrinks and social workers...illogical.
Perhaps; but it is coupled with capitalism as sold through the gateway drug teevee.
Right, Sibby, the Biblical Christian worldview brought us the Dark Ages, the Inquisition, slavery and apartheid. Things were so much better in those days.
*eye roll*
Back on topic, ...do you or do you not exercise your Second Amendment rights at your workplace, Sibson? And if not, why not? We're all awaiting your answer over here.
"Right, Sibby, the Biblical Christian worldview brought us the Dark Ages, the Inquisition, slavery and apartheid."
No it did not, those were caused by the apostate church.
Larry, yes I understand the problem of corporatism. Don't confuse their capitalism with "free-market enterpirse system".
"We're all awaiting your answer over here."
I already provided the answer. It is not my fault that you do not understand the Constitution.
the "free-market enterpirse system" would have killed off the human species long ago had it been allowed to survive as you describe it, sib.
So Larry, you then agree with the creation of a centrally controlled economy by man (or woman)?
United States of Earth? Absolutely.
guns. school. tragedy averted.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/kid-with-gun-in-queens-had-flare-gun-too.html
"I already provided the answer."
No, you are intentionally avoiding the answer.
Yes or no, Sibby, do you or do you not carry a weapon at your workplace?
Your argument that the 2nd Amendment only applies to people employed by the government is patently ridiculous, by the way.
Got another excuse?
Or do you want to recant your self-righteous lecture to Cory, get of your pompous asshole high horse and start thinking before you write for a change?
"No, you are intentionally avoiding the answer."
If you get off those meds, you would understand the answer.
"Your argument that the 2nd Amendment only applies to people employed by the government is patently ridiculous, by the way. "
So you do admit that I answered the question. Too bad you still don't understand it. I did not say that only government employees can have a gun, that is closer to what you gun-control anti-Second Amendment pro big-government fools would think.
Let's find out, Steve. Anybody here have a clue what Sib is talking about?
Bill, lets see if they understand that the Second Amendment puts restrictions on the federal government and not the citizen, including those who own business properties.
So, Steve, in essence, you're saying that if your employer tells you that if you own weapons you're fired, you'll go along with it in order to keep your job then, right?
Hmpf.
Some patriot.
It's important to remember that slave states, which owned the guns and armed men who could not afford them, to control Africans after Native Americans succumbed to malaria then wrote the Second Amendment which the courts used to define "keep and bear arms" to include personal ownership.
I never understand what Steve S. is trying to say. I'm expecting, at some point, he will finally admit that his goal all along was to "punk" all of us...
Steve, you're wrong. My opposition to guns in my classroom lies first on the fear it would create among students. Regardless of my actual mental constitution, students would fear that I might use that gun. They would fear that it might accidentally discharge or that someone else would grab it and shoot. They would fear that our society is so dangerous and our social contract so ineffective that we all need to arm ourselves and be prepared at every moment to use deadly force. That fear would degrade their ability to learn every day. I cannot advocate an action that creates such clear harm to learning.
Dana, don't let Sibby's static draw too much of your mental attention. Just keep the good links coming!
no worries, Cory. Trust me, the static in the air takes very little of my energy!!
oh, and speaking of links.......let's go ahead and celebrate "Gun Appreciation Day". What could go wrong?? glad you asked. How about accidental shootings at THREE SEPARATE GUN SHOWS!!!
Indianapolis, Indiana:
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/man-accidentally-shot-at-gun-show
Raleigh, North Carolina:
http://www.wral.com/2-hurt-in-accidental-shooting-at-raleigh-gun-show/12001032/
Medina, Ohio:
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_medina/a-man-was-shot-at-the-medina-county-gun-show-saturday-afternoon
But nothing could ever ever ever go wrong with guns in a school.
Remind me to stay away from gun shows....
October 2012, Tupelo, MS - 4 year old injured:
http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/19813925/4-year-old-injured-when-gun-discharges-at-tupelo-gun-show
January 6 2013, Marietta, OH:
http://www.newsandsentinel.com/page/content.detail/id/569437/Man-accidentally-shot-in-ankle-at-local-gun-show.html?nav=5061
is it just me? or are we just one itchy trigger finger away from a horrible tragedy? in other words, good guy on good guy crime?
This guy, has a CCW. Carries a loaded Glock 19C on his person in a holster, NOT concealed, as he heads out to mix amongst the happy shoppers in Utah. you know, to protect others from evil doers. But oh no, that isn't enough for him. He decides to also sling an UNLOADED AR-15 over his shoulder because??
http://www.inquisitr.com/486725/man-with-assault-rifle-at-jc-penney-spurs-gun-control-debate/
People that respect guns and respect people, would not do something like this. A normal person would have used their CCW permit in the manner that it was intended. Concealed. (the handgun) Not alarm fellow citizens that are just trying to go about their day. To do an open carry like this, had nothing to do with stopping any mad men in the mall. It was just a testosterone filled and ill-advised way to show an opinion on something.
Thanks for posting this, Cory!
Thanks for the tip, Sam!
It is horrific that this 15 year old killed his five family members (shooting them multiple times with an assault rifle), but it could have been much worse.
Sounds like he was headed to the local Walmart to continue more carnage. Luckily, a friend was able to talk him into driving to the church instead. So yes, talking does help. De-escalation. Why did police departments finally see the need for negotiation units?? Because it works.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/u-s-world/new-mexico-teen-accused-of-gunning-down-his-family-planned-a-shootout-at-walmart-report-claims
According NRA, if there was a second RA rifle in the home, the shooter could have been "brought down".