Some folks get awfully sensitive when authorities in their own pew disagree with them.
John T. Porter, CEO of the Catholic Avera Health, takes to the opinion pages to join most moral and practical South Dakotans in exhorting our Legislature to expand Medicaid. Mr. Porter cites the familiar arguments:
- Provide health coverage for 48,000 more South Dakotans.
- Invest $1.6 million in state funds, get $649 million in federal funds that would act as economic stimulus.
- Help thousands of working neighbors live better lives.
Working together to use our vast national wealth to help our neighbors seems like a good idea from a Catholic perspective. It seems like a good idea from a practical problem-solving perspective. It seems like a good idea from almost every perspective other than the "Oh my goodness—that Medicaid expansion is another one of Barack Obama's ideas, and Barack Obama is eee-viiiilll!!!" perspective.
Cue Pat Powers, Catholic blogger and Barackophobiac. First the personal attack:
You know, I’m sure Mr Porter is a nice man, but I’d bet dollars to donuts that Mr Porter makes far, far more on a yearly basis than I do despite my best efforts. And for that matter, I’d wager his hospital system does as well [Pat Powers, "Avera CEO Asking for {Me to Write Another Long Headline Demonstrating I Don't Have the Journalistic Skill to Condense My Thesis into One Concise Statement}," Dakota War College, 2014.01.15].
Notice how Powers has no problem playing the class envy card when it suits his purposes.
Then the disingenuous political attack:
So, why is he asking me to pay for all this subsidized medicine through my taxes? Especially because that bill is going to go up in an explosive manner when, yet again, the federal government fails to honor another promise to state government (see Missouri River Dams, aspects of education funding, etc) [Powers, 2014.01.15].
Ah, yes, the false flag of a failing federal government. The single greatest risk of someone turning off the federal funding spigot seems to come from Powers's own Republicans, who make great sport of shutting down the federal government and threatening to default on our financial obligations. Republicans like Powers have yet to extend this "What if Uncle Sam leaves us?" argument to say we should stop paving I-29. And I have yet to hear any coherent explanation of how a federal government withdrawal of Medicaid funding would legally obligate South Dakota to pick up the slack instead of just shutting down the program.
Finally, Powers reaches for Porter's wallet:
If providing “primary care and health screenings” is that important, might I suggest Mr Porter give all that health care away?
I mean, why not? He’s wanting to pass the expense on to us, including me. As a show of commitment to what he’s advocating, shouldn’t he lead by example? Aren’t they supposed to be non-profit? So, give health care away for free! [Powers, 2014.01.15]
Powers completely misrepresents Porter's position. Powers is asking Porter to pay for this social program entirely with his own resources. Porter is not making the same claim on Powers. Porter is asking that all of his, Porter and Powers, Catholics and agnostics, chip in to pay for this social program.
Basically, Porter is saying, let's all work together to help each other. Powers is saying let's all isolate ourselves on our own islands of selfishness and let our neighbors and our state economy suffer, just to make a tired political point.
Porter vs. Powers—choose your pews, Catholics!
Brookings Utilities owns the hospital in Powers' town as well as the golf course and liquor store yet he chooses to fight battles from the rear: how conservative.
"Three updates today, two of which are minor, one is significant; combine all three and we've hit 10 Million altogether (with caveats):
Oregon: Pvt. up 15% since Jan. 6; Medicaid up 6%
Washington State: Small but solid gains from Jan. 2 to Jan. 9
New York: "7K per day" (Prv+Pub) since New Year's = 112% of CMS projection
These 3 updates push the Private QHP enrollment tally up to about 2.4 million; add about 4.5 million Medicaid/CHIP enrollments and 3.1 million "sub-26'ers" added to their parents plan thanks to the ACA, and you hit just over 10 million total."
http://acasignups.net/14/01/15/latest-updates-or-wa-ny-grand-total-breaks-10m
I know that we cannot hope for the bishops to stand and deliver from the pulpit, a message of disdain for the cruel treatment of our working poor, so it is with great satisfaction that the Catholic healthcare has the morals to do so. As far as I can see, Mr. Powers is really not a Christian nor a Catholic, he is an ideologue that only sees his progress on the backs of the oppressed. His gain is their pain.
GDD's budget for the last 4 years demonstrates what he is preaching. You can't depend on government(state of SD)to fulfill it's commitments and promises. Thus when he cries and screams the federal government, he really means the state of SD.
The weird thing is, Powers' argument about "spendin' our tax munney!" doesn't even make sense. We already pay federal taxes. We will continue to pay them at the same rate regardless of whether the state takes the federal money to expand Medicaid. So in short, the argument is that we should turn down free money because REASONS. (And, as you note, for Powers, REASONS = the Kenyan Usurper in the White House.)
Typical wingnut claims he alone is paying for all this subsidized medicine through HIS taxes. Some wingnut kingdom in La-La Land is missing its court jester.
Chris, Mr. Porter, and I are in the majority: a poll released Tuesday by the American Cancer Society finds that 63% of South Dakotans want to take the federal money to expand Medicaid.
Powers' response to Porter's letter opens with a personal attack -- a true sign that Powers hasn't given this issue any thought whatsoever. I'm not saying that a healthy debate about whether to expand Medicaid is a bad thing -- to the contrary. But Powers very rarely offers any form of healthy commentary. His grunting and squealing on those rare instances when he chooses to actually express himself rather than cut and paste someone else's work speak volumes about his character -- he is selfish, and cares only for the elite in the political world in the hope they may line his pockets in some way.
The Fed pays 100% of the Medicaid for the first 3 years and after that,the state contributes 10%. South Dakotans have some of the lowest,if not the lowest,tax rates in the nation. Rethuglicans waste compassion making sure the wealthiest Americans hang onto every grubby nickel they can come up with,while the rest of America gets the middle finger from the party of family values. Wingnuts won't pass the unemployment bill unless it gets paid for. Good,I suggest you take paychecks away from the party of no,they don't do a damn thing in Congress anyway. Why bother to pay them at all?
Powers must be pretty cranky about a Rapid City cleric from his cult supporting the end to capital punishment:
http://www.kotatv.com/story/24466986/bishop-of-rapid-city-supports-death-penalty-abolishment-bill
Wow Larry, that is pretty cool that the Bishop did something worthwhile from the pulpit. This Pope business must be catchy and that is a good thing. For far too long, clergy have stood by and not said a word about the horrible conditions that the working poor and the convicted have had to endure. Cuts in aid for heating and cuts in aid for food are now just points of order for the elite to keep stealing from the poor and working poor. I wonder where the other clergy are? There must not be any problems with the Lutherans or the Baptists or the Presbyterians in how they view the shabby treatment of our working poor. If they do not complain, it means that they support it, how un-Christian is that?
You need to understand that for all the wailing about how Medicaid patients clog up hospital emergency depts, the fact is the hospitals make a lot of money off these people. And since clinics don't want these patients because the reimbursement is so low for a clinic visit, they go to the ER, Where the same services they could have received in a clinic can be billed to Medicaid as an emergency room charge. So, let's just say somebody's got a strept throat. If the patient goes to the clinic, Medicaid might pay something in the neighborhood of $50. But the same person with the same problem goes to the ER and receives exactly the same care and Medicaid might pay a couple of hundred. Perhaps somebody with access to the actual numbers can enlighten us here. So don't be fooled by some hospitals CEO saying he's only thinking about the public health. He's thinking about the money.
Of course he is thinking about money Anne. Roughly 85% of all hospitals in the USA are non-profit; yet that does not mean they are not profitable. I laughed when PP said "Why doesn't he give it away for free?", because as a non-profit, Avera is obligated to forgive around 10% of their debt annually. And why are most hospitals non-profits anyways? Couple reasons, but usually because they are not subject to a sales tax, and get a reduction, or pay no property taxes. So its all about the money. I would argue that this is one time where what is good for the goose is also pretty good for the gander.
Anne, Avera is already taking that money from paying patients; ever hear of redistributing uncompensated costs? Instead of laying the burden entirely on folks who have the misfortune of getting sick or hurt, wouldn't it be fairer and more efficient to have everyone chip in?
Q, no sales tax? No property taxes?
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Show me the SD code on that.
Just because you're a smoker and heavy drinker amongst other things, we should share the load Cory? ;-/
Les, if we applied that blame thinking, we would have to reform our entire insurance system. We'd fault-test every patient: insurance (private, public, whatever) would pay only if you got sick or injured through no fault of your own. But if you got hurt because you were driving too fast, or got diabetes because you ate too much and let yourself get fast, or came in with severe pneumonia because you didn't come in to the hospital for some medicine earlier when all you had was a slight cough, then to heck with you: pay your own medical bill.
Expanding Medicaid isn't about giving undeserving people who make bad choices a free ride. It's about extending to them the same health security (and concomitant liberty) that citizens of greater wealth enjoy.
daugarrd and the healthcare monopolies don't want the working poor to have insurance. They, and the other red state governors are prolonging this as there are a lot of unisured home owners in the U.S.A.
To them, the money from Medicaid is nothing compared to the money made with their corrupt system of charges they inflict on the uninsured. South Dakota is at 300% according to the SD supreme court, other States go as high as 800% charges for being uninsured.
Is there a cheap way for the working poor to shield what little they have, or for some, save the home they have been paying on for decades? Incorporate, irrevocable trust, ... ?
Ms Beal, You miss the point of getting the working poor, who make too much to be on Medicaid, but also do not make enough to afford insurance. They are currently going to the emergency room for their healthcare, the cost of which is then redistributed to the rest of us since they cannot afford to pay. If they are allowed on Medicaid, they will then get their care at the clinic, at the 50 dollar charge that you alluded to and not the 200 dollar charge at the emergency room that you also alluded to. That is what helps to bring the cost of healthcare down, because that emergency room cost is no longer distributed to the rest of us and our insurance companies, and by default to us because the insurance companies just raise our rates.
Les, not sure on the code. Repeating what I was told by a Sanford Exec years ago when I asked "Why be a non-profit?".
Also, it seems as though many are operAting under an assumption that HCOs are some sort of free market commodity. That is simply not so; often it is a monopoly in town, at best an oligopoly. They have no standardized prices for medicine, and you never see the prices until you have already consumed them. Typical market reforms will not work with health care. Not saying go all commie on the system; on just has to truly acknowledge the systems we are dealing with.
@Q and just why would doing something to fix the inequality of our healthcare system be going "all commie"? For the life of me, I cannot understand how the folks who think it is okay to have the public pay for "Events Centers" "Target Fields" as well as highways, fire and police protection, swimming pools, a military to fight wars all over the planet, not wars of self defense, but somehow think that it is communistic or socialistic to have government paid healthcare, paid for out of taxes and thus give government the right to put a stop to some of the excesses, like the exorbitant salaries paid to HMO and Insurance executives.
Unfortunately the whole issue is the payola Lanny. That being protected is the new marketplace, guys like Jerry are so fond of. Why does Fisher/Rounds approve? They've pushed the SD legislation requiring a substantial payment for getting you into the marketplace.
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Weak argument Q. Sanford exec? What's his/her name?
Cory says"It's about extending to them the same health security (and concomitant liberty) that citizens of greater wealth enjoy."
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Les is on board with you as a retired who has given all his money to the great charities, Four Winds Casino, Four Aces Casino and For Les, I agree completely. I'm on board and want what you all have. I'm a working responsible Citizen, no more! Can I get an Amen!?.
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I have no problem expanding Medicaid and think anyone blocking it should be impeached. If the Fed support runs out, we are in no different boots than the rest of the country.
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That said, the ACA is still a fraud, believable by only those who have yet to experience the forked tongue. It has allowed the insurance industry to continue to promulgate their seizure of our assets and freedom through their lies and deceit. Small difference from the repeal of Glass
Steagall.
What is a Les? I got lost in the rabbit trail of Les describing Les to Les more or less.
LOL.
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We are going to have to do a sit down Jer. Ive spent a day researching the ACA. I find nothing to make my pearly whites work.
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I do find a mirage of, Max out of pocket expenses but still see numbers of great concern out of my pocket. No limits on out of Network costs. A might be paid or possibly not. This is runaway BS at it's finest Jer.
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Help me see through the haze of this corruption. Heaven help me if you're the Vice Pres of XXXInsurance.com in Sioux Falls Jer!
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For starters, tell me how Max out of pocket has any meaning?
"That said, the ACA is still a fraud, believable by only those who have yet to experience the forked tongue. It has allowed the insurance industry to continue to promulgate their seizure of our assets and freedom through their lies and deceit. Small difference from the repeal of Glass
Steagall."
Jerry like it or not no truer words were ever muttered from the pulpit. As long as we let the insurance companies delete single payer from the equation nothing has changed. The appearance of change is nothing if it doesn't work for everyone. The poor and middle class are stuck with someone's boot on their throat because they still think it is in the best interest of the country to vote for that to happen.
Ask yourself this question. Why are so many people from the US moving to Mexico? Maybe this could give at least part of the answer.
http://www.tomzap.com/retireafford.html
IMSS: The Mexican National Healthcare Program
In 2011 the total cost for comprehensive medical insurance, with no deductibles every payable, for a couple at least one of whom is 60, is 6,944 pesos, or about $600 USD. This entitles you to:
Visiting a clinic doctor (family physician) when ill
Visiting specialists when recommended by the clinic doctor
Having prescribed blood, urine, fecal and other test analyses, as well as x-rays
Prescription medications
Hospitalization and surgery, including the dreaded colonoscopy
An annual physical which includes a flu shot, and complimentary condoms without asking
Admittedly the quality care and cleanliness at IMSS in general may not be up to the standards to which you have become accustomed, simply by virtue of the fact that many of the medical personnel in this system have been trained at universities with lesser reputations than those in the US and Canada, and Westerners are often unjustifiably anal about cleanliness, but there are two important points:
Many US and Canadian trained private doctors perform surgeries in IMSS hospitals, and in fact IMSS hospitals often have state-of-the-art equipment not available in private hospitals.
You always have the option of using private doctors and surgeons, and still having IMSS coverage as a safeguard in the event you require long - term hospitalization and complicated surgery. The private hospitals simply do not have the equipment that IMSS has, and as indicated above your chosen surgeon may perform your surgery at an IMSS hospitals.
And this all comes from one of the strongest catholic countries in the world. Some might ask why not here? Lets see.
Last year we had a defense budget of just under $720 billion, " not counting the money owed for two unfunded wars in the last ten years." And this is kind a funny. Nowhere can I find the amount of money spent keep Israel safe from itself.
We gave away over $50 billion in foreign aid. I might add that it is highly debatable if this aid added to our safety or that of the countries that it was given.
The truth is that we value war more then the health of the people that live in this country. Nuff Said.
The Blindman
Cheesh, Bill, what are you trying to do, start reverse illegal immigration?
See this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/emergency-care-grades-by-state-2014-1
Interested, a better link http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-bail-out-gop-gov-on-medicaid-2013-2
That is the part of Obama that has bothered me from before he was President and much more since. His backbone bows way too easily. Remember the Public Option to pacify those of us who wanted Universal Single Payer? He backed away from that with hardly any opposition and with no stand up to that very little opposition. Then he bowed to the Insurance industry several times and also to the Healthcare industry, (the hospital and clinic part)
"the cost of which is then redistributed to the rest of us since they cannot afford to pay." Currently it is not redistributed to all of us, but to those responsible people who can pay or who have insurance, but also happen to end up in the clutches of the hospital collection system. As indicated, covering these 45,000 or so people with Medicare,etc. would spread the burden to all taxpayers rather than just those unlucky enough to get sick or injured themselves.
Hospital and doctor charges are ridiculously high, but then how else can a "non-profit" pay chief execs millions and a slug of sub execs several hundred thousand. About the only thing worse is executive salaries of insurance executives.
http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/the_storied_baucus-daschle_feud
Les,
I don't remember. Look up non profit hco requirements. Google is your friend old man.
Okay Les, here goes. The first thing about the ACA is that it is the first thing that has ever been put into place that will directly lower healthcare costs for the under 65 crowd.
1. Allow children to be kept under parents or parent healthcare coverage until the age of 26. Wellmark Blue Cross and Blue Shield (not a participant in the Marketplace but still in compliance with the ACA) will allow children to be covered as long as they are a full time student, no matter the age.
2. No more pre-existing conditions on anyone. This is a huge deal for all. The biggest deal that I can see on this is that it gives you the freedom to be able to leave a group insurance that has given you coverage when there was no place else to go and allows you to maybe start that business that you always wanted to do. You especially see this in the public sector with the low wages offered but a good health plan for workers.
That is two of many. Regarding the out of pocket costs. In my bride's case, we had total out of pocket of $5,000.00, but was always cloudy about office visits and limited drug costs (generic only) as they did not count towards deductible nor out of pocket. She had three per year, so it is quite possible that the out of pocket could have been way more, thousands more each year.
The ACA limits the out of pocket to $6,350 for a single and 12,700 for a family and all cost paid, go towards that number. By all costs, that is what you pay for your costs and what the insurance company pays for their costs towards the bills. What you can clearly see then is what your total bill would be for drugs and for services rendered in your behalf. That number is an absolute figure as well.
Now the ACA Marketplace plans are not government plans, they are insurance plans from each of the 3 companies that are offering coverage's through the Marketplace. The plans are no different than the plans these companies offer any consumer. The only thing the Marketplace offers is the opportunity to apply for a subsidy to help offset the cost of the insurance. The higher your income, the less subsidy, if any, you will receive. The income is based on total household income as well. As the vice president, Joe Bidden said, this is a big ------deal. As the vice president of nothing, I say, It ain't perfect, but it is a helluva start.
Blindman, I would not agree with the assessment that "That said, the ACA is still a fraud, believable by only those who have yet to experience the forked tongue. It has allowed the insurance industry to continue to promulgate their seizure of our assets and freedom through their lies and deceit.
Here we are in January of 2014 and I personally know of folks that this ACA has already helped. They are actually using it right now and they are not saying forked tongue by any means, they are crying with the joy of a system that for once will allow them to be cared for. One of our good friends son uses IHS, but as he does not use alcohol or drugs, he is not a priority case and therefore could not get a problem of his taken care of. Here is a young working man that has trouble breathing with his condition, not a good thing. The ACA has allowed him to see a doctor and to start his treatment right now and that is what he is doing, he is getting his life in order. Another was paying over 1,000.00 each quarter for a high deductible plan exactly like my bride's. There were only 3 office visits in the plan, so he could not use the physical therapy office visits for problems that he has. He qualified for a subsidy, just like the young man mentioned before and now he can afford his insurance and get the treatment he needs. Our friend had gone out of country to get his medical needs done for surgeries and now he will be able to get those here if further are needed.
I have had dental work done out of country and the clinics that I have been to are just as clean and modern as they are right here in America. As I am a disabled veteran, I go to the hospitals and clinics right here and see that they are as clean and modern as anyplace else. I get my drugs at the VA and now see that these drugs are available to all now. Of course, this is not universal health coverage and you are correct that Canada does have a system like that in place. If you go to Europe, you will see that in order to have health coverage, you must pay into Social Security or you do not have it. A lot of immigrants, both legal and not so legal go back to their home countries for medical services simply for the low costs. We can do better, but this is a good start.
One other point of order, if not the insurance companies handling the billing and the logistics of claims et al., who would have that knowledge or the infrastructure to do so?
Jerry, one comment in response to your questions about the lack of clergy speaking up for the poor:
We are doing so continually, at the tops of our lungs, from every venue available.
But we get no attention, no press. The big mouth televangelists, aka - false prophets, provide better ratings with the outrageous bullshit they spout. Their limos, planes, mansions and media empires make much better copy.
Clergy people and church members are writing letters, participating in marches, attending committee hearings, working on campaigns (on their own time), contributing to causes, etc. We are everywhere, but where is the fun in that?
BTW, even though the Roman Catholic Church has some big problems, the lower level faithful, like the "Nuns on a Bus", do great work for people in need. The bishops and the rest of the hierarchy? Well. . . . ? I don't know.
1. I do not agree having children on the insurance until 26 is a good thing. Possibly an exception at times but not the rule. They'll be on until they're 40 and the parents will have to leave home to get rid of them in a few years.
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2. Nowhere did I see no pre existing for all. I saw no pre existing under 19.
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There are different out of pocket on my expenses per plan. Little twist with my max expenses, not max out of pocket as commonly crowed. From a marketplace summary on exclusions from max out of pocket numbers.(Premiums, balance-billed charges, and health care this plan doesn’t cover.). Of course we expect premiums to not be included. Balance billed? Health Care this plan doesn't cover?
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Looking at my acquaintances who've undergone major illness, there is hardly a comfort from the ambivalence of the ACA authors in using language easily understood or defining without as Pelosi said! just using it to find out what you will pay.
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Do I take it you are saying, anyone with insurance can apply for a subsidy?
Deb, I am sorry if I offended you. I have not seen nor have I heard of any clergy speaking out on behalf of our working poor. Larry brought that notice to the table about the Bishop and his speaking out. To the best of my knowledge, that is the first of its kind here. I do not see those kinds of things in the religious periodicals that I get and it troubles me very much that more is not done. That is the platform that could make things happen. There could be no more of a fitting time for speaking for those without voices than now. Maybe a reaching out to all clergy from clergy would do the job, make this more of a priority and view it like it is, a life or death struggle for our working poor. By not having access to the health tests through wellness exams that could find cancer or diabetes or other dread disease, are we not sentencing our working poor to an early death? A death that would take away any form of dignity for them and put them onto a program that really is an end of life prescription for them. We can do better, can't we? Of course, there is no fun in a thankless job, only the satisfaction of getting it right is the reward.
1. The catch for staying covered is that they must maintain full time student status.
2. You did not see pre-existing because after the 1st of January 2014, it no longer exists in any health plan, Marketplace or other. Ask around to your friends and relatives about that, you will here some incredible stories about how they have held off on surgeries and other means to help in their lives because of being afraid they would loose their insurance and then what.
3. Balanced billing. Of course, like with all forms of insurance, you must stay in a network unless it is an emergency then you are treated as if you are in one. You, the consumer have a stake in this as you always had and that is to make sure that your provider is in network. A simple call will tell you that, By doing so, you will avoid out of network costs and unpleasant surprises. What you will see on the new ACA plans from the 1st of January 2014 forward, maximum out of pocket costs with the most being $6,350 for a single and $12,700 for a family. In some gold plans and silver plans, the deductibles may be less than that and the out of pocket may be less than that, but as a whole, no plan can be more than that. Gone are the days when family out of pocket expenses could easily be in the 40,000.00 range.
I will say this Les, the outlines of coverage's for these plans are not complicated to read, that is another part of the ACA that is out there. As their are no health questions, there cannot be an entire group in an insurance company gleaning over claims to try to pull an I gotcha on a pre-existing condition that you saw a doctor in Omaha in 1992 for an ache or pain and refuse payment.
You do not have to have insurance to take a look at the ACA. In fact, those who have private insurance may want to look at the ACA to see if they can find a better deal. If you have a small business under 50 employees, you can use the SHOP portion of the Marketplace to see if you can find a better deal for your group health insurance. By utilizing that, you may find yourself with a whopping 35% tax credit on group health premiums. So this is not just about individuals, it is about all of us that make up parts of one of the greatest engines unleashed on the markets, small business and the self employed. If you are under 65, this could help you a lot. If you are over 65, you have already seen that your drug costs have been reduced and will continue to do so until the doughnut hole is eradicated.
You can do most of this on your own, but I can tell you that it may be better to actually sit down with a licensed insurance agent that is not completely right wing bonkers and ask them to show you the best way forward for the health plans that would fit you the best.
Thanks for your efforts on reply Jer! We'll get back on this as I get time to dig in again.
Jerry, the problem is much less with clergy and churches working for the struggling people than it is to get the press and its corporate overlords to pay attention. The 1% don't want voices like ours to be heard. It's not good for their sinful and shameful salaries. Therefore, the well-endowed ($) political types don't want us heard either.
You are certainly familiar with one of their favorite tactics: Attack the protester. So the church members who show up Every Single Wednesday Afternoon on the Marshall Avenue Bridge between Mpls and St. Paul to protest the slaughter of war become "just a few scattered crackpots," rather than faithful defenders of JC's instructions to be peaceful.
The Isaiah Group (church people) which diligently lobbies the city, county and state offices for affordable housing, homeless shelters, educational opportunities, etc., for the poor receive no coverage At All, even though press releases are sent out.
Religion has always been a hugely popular tool to control the public, and it is no less so today. I think that as a general statement, that is no surprise, but the depth and extent of the manipulation may be unrealized.
(My considered opinion:) 95% of politicians who talk more than minimally about their religious beliefs do so solely for political gain. And they do so shamelessly.
Remember Paul Ryan claiming that his cruel budget was based on his Roman Catholic faith? Nuns, priests, bishops, archbishops were quick to call him on that deceptive statement. The RCC has a long history of doing exactly the opposite of Ryan's budget. Yet Ryan never retracted his claim.
Apparently the wealthier one becomes, the more one feels permission to lie gratuitously and shamelessly. That is sociopathic/psychopathic behavior.
I just reread Martin Luther King Jr's Letter from a Birmingham Jail. There is a true and powerfully courageous Christian. He eloquently describes valid criticisms of other Christians as he explains how his faith led him to that cell. If you are interested in reading it, here is a link:
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
Les-the ACA isn't perfect,but it is a start. Something that wingnuts have failed miserably at. The ACA can be fixed,with or without wingnut input. That is their choice. They chose not to get involved writing the program and instead, chose to sit on the sidelines whining about it. OTOH you can't fix zero,which is what wingnuts have offered as their alternatives. Americans have every right to affordable healthcare,even if the government has to provide it for those who can't afford to pay. It is written in fine print in the constitution under "promote the general welfare."
Well Jerry, you wrote, " Maybe a reaching out to all clergy from clergy would do the job, make this more of a priority and view it like it is, a life or death struggle for our working poor."
We are going to get a chance to test your theory, albeit on an unrelated issue. Rep, Reverend Steve Hickey has a bill in the hopper to repeal the death penalty. Both he and Catholic Deacon Denny Davis have been contacting clergy and the faithful on this repeal for a long time. The faithful through various groups have been asked to contact their legislators by snail mail before the session started. Many of us have done that. It will be interesting to see if it takes, or if the Stace Nelson's of our State will prevail with their Old Testament view of the death penalty and if Senator Rave's assertion, "that it takes more than one session to get a bill passed," will hold true.
Deb, It was wonderful to read what you wrote, "You are certainly familiar with one of their favorite tactics: Attack the protester. So the church members who show up Every Single Wednesday Afternoon on the Marshall Avenue Bridge between Mpls and St. Paul to protest the slaughter of war become "just a few scattered crackpots," rather than faithful defenders of JC's instructions to be peaceful."
You neglected to mention that these are mostly women. You also didn't mention that they have been meeting ever since the start of Desert Storm in 1991. I have so much admiration for them as I was a member of the group that meets in front of the Federal building here in SF, only sporadically now, but for several years, we met every Sunday. We were a fairly large group when we started meeting prior to the vote to go to war in 2003. The vote was in October of 2002 and we started meeting in September.
A group of 5 to 10 of us would then go to Rep Stefanie Herseth Sandlin's office on Monday and present her staff with reasons why she should vote to cut off funding for the war. This was after the 2006 election, when it became pretty obvious to more than 70% of the American people that we should never have gone into Iraq. But she would still not vote to shut off funding. And in spite of the fact that we came to her office every week for several months and asked to meet with her anytime when she came back to SD, she never did. But of course she had time to go to that Senior meeting in RC and have a campaign film made showing her with seniors of both the Dems and the Repubs and then they all cheered because they all supported her.
Our peace group also marched in the St Patrick's day parade one year carrying signs about stopping the war, we got a lot of thumbs up and cheers as we would pass, only to have the Argus Leader reporter write that we were booed and that people were sickened by what we were doing. These were out right lies because other than a couple of guys at different points giving us the bird and making snide remarks, we got none of that. Also, other than the first couple of weeks, we never got any press coverage of our protests, that lasted for years.
Again, is there any advice I can give my friends who are at risk of losing their homes because of the Red State Boycott?
Can they incorporate or get some kind of Trust?
Interesting responses regarding the clergy getting involved with the very things the Teacher himself was involved with all those centuries ago. Amazing how little things have actually changed. So now we have the ACA warts and all, and of course, it is not good enough for all, each and every one of us. The only thing we can do is to blame Obama for caving into the ones who did not support the universal coverage just to get what we have now. As they say, you cannot see the forest for the trees.
I say that the only real voice that can be made is through a medium that is different than the media. We all know that the media does not want to disrupt the advertising apple cart that keeps their doors open, understandable. Why then, would their involvement be important? Maybe a declaration from the pulpits that those who turn their backs on the working poor do not deserve to be considered for a vote. Instead of a futile march as "crackpots", maybe visits to neighborhoods to promote the candidacy of those that will honor a commitment to our working poor. Instead of protest signs, yard signs. To hell with the media, they have made their commitments loud and clear. Their silence speaks volumes. There is a man running for senate that shares your beliefs regarding the voice of the working poor. There is a man that is running for governor against the very man who condemns the working poor to lives without the basic healthcare needs that are God given rights. Be the foot soldiers for change and allow those squelched voices to be heard. Call these politicos out by name and show their hypocrisy regarding wearing their religion on their sleeves for what it truly is, a lie. Remember, this is not about you, this is about the plight of the working poor in a country as rich as the one we live in. Clergy, ask what Jesus would do?
Thanks for your insights Jerry, and yes I am one who opposed ACA in favor of Universal Single Payer. When the discussions were first being held, I went to a meeting at the Labor temple here in SF, attended also I might add, by Ron W, that was being emceed by a paid lobbyist of the Obama administration, who promised on behalf of the President, the Public option in the ACA, as a salve to those of us who were expressing the need for USP. I also went to a couple of other meetings on the pre act, only to witness that the party line was being espoused by those running the show. And then of course I witnessed as we all did, that President Obama let go of the Public option with hardly a whimper, to placate those on the right. But I also worked tirelessly, (making enemies out of some of my friends) last session trying to get legislators and my friends to work on their legislators to pass a bill for accepting the Medicaid option being offered to us by the Feds. I accepted the ACA, once it became the law of the land.
As far as carrying signs and protesting not being the answer, I also pointed out in what I wrote above that I, we went to our Congresswoman's office many times in addition to writing to her, with no help to our issues.
And finally, in 2003 and 2004, I campaigned extensively door to door in Northwest Iowa, for Dennis Kucinich, prior to the very undemocratic caucuses, spending hundreds of my own dollars, and was an organizer here in South Dakota for him only to watch first the media and then his own Democratic party trash him as being a nut, even though he is/was the closest thing to the Democrats who elected Roosevelt. The Democratic party since Jimmy Carter, has moved to the Right of Richard Nixon, and most Democrats are not even willing to admit it or even recognize that it has happened.
So then Lanny as you are an old hand at this collecting followers to support political causes and candidates, you would be more than welcome to continue. The working poor are not Democrats any more than they are Republicans, they are our friends neighbors and relatives. They need a voice to tell their story about how they work their collective asses off each and every day to try to make ends meet. They are surviving and not much more can be said after that. By not allowing the working poor to be seen on a regular basis only does one thing, it insures the fact that when something happens, it will be catastrophic. I am not only speaking of monetary, but also what it does to the family. What the politicos need is a calling out of their misdeeds in front of the people they spend that hour in church with. They need to know that their hypocrisy will no longer be tolerated as a front for so called religious code. If they follow religious belief, then they should be able to show the rest of the congregation where those passages are in the Good Book. Show us all where it says that it is cool to deny the working poor a place at the table. Clergy should point that out to them that it does not say that.
No Jerry, I do not collect followers as I am one, myself. I only join groups that I think are working for the same causes of which you speak. I have not seen too much in a political party and sadly not enough in the churches to offer the leadership for which I am looking.
Good discussion gentlemen.
Every denomination has some corruption among its leadership, ordained and not. The more top heavy with hierarchy, the worse it is. The solo "pastors" who go out to start "their own church" are also a worry because they do whatever they want, creating whatever theology suits them. Others of both groups strive to be faithful.
The key problem with churches, as with the rest of society, is money. The wealthier the church, the greater the struggle to give ever greater amounts and support politically unpopular causes. When Jesus said "The love of money is the root of all evil," he was so right and we don't consider that seriously enough. Poor people are much more likely to tithe 10% than middle class and wealthy people.
Money is the most highly infectious disease in existence. There is not now, nor has there ever been a tangible treatment for it. Only massive doses of humility and compassion stand even the slightest chance of bringing remission.
The only thing I can truly say for certain is that we cannot give up. Resilience is on our side. MLK was right, the arc of the universe does bend toward justice. It always has and it always will.
Rome fell, Napoleon had Waterloo, Hitler was run to ground and died, American slavery ended, Nazi war criminals were hunted down. The cause of the widows and orphans, poor and sick, outcasts and hated - the cause Jesus so passionately called all believers to - will win in time.
I would love to have the opportunity to stand in front of NOem, Thune, Denny and the Egg Roll and call them out for being such asshats in their treatments of the working poor. It would be a great amusement to me to watch them squirm in their pews and look nervously about like a mouse that has been caught by an alley cat. To see them look about at their fellow parishioners would be priceless, one called a sphincter clenching moment. Knowing that there would be splinter removal later would be the icing on the cake.
I understand the feeling Jerry. You'd be fired the next day too, and most of your congregation shut you off after the first few words. So you, or I, would feel an immense sense of justifiable self-righteousness, with minimal actual accomplishment.
See, that's the tricky part. How much can you say, how far can you push them, without being shut off and unheard. In my experience, the average SD citizen gets terribly uncomfortable with direct confrontation and frequently experiences it as bullying.
Successful preaching includes some knowledge of the listeners. Also, in my churches I was strongly, strongly opposed to politics in the pulpit. If it's wrong when the rightwing televangelists do it, it's wrong when I do it too. I urged people to be politically involved, reminded them to vote, and asked them to pray to follow God's will when marking their ballot.
Outside of worship services I freely shared my political opinions and explained how they grew from my faith. My conscience was peaceful with that.
Well Deb, you are quite right on the firing part, been there done that. Still though, it is some of the most rewarding things that I have ever done. I have mostly felt a great deal of pride about myself in those times that I would have the huevos to stand and deliver the truth to power and watch them twitch. I knew my goose was cooked, but the desert was worth it. Some say that you are a damn fool for doing such things, me, I would argue that point.
I will say this, you are an honest angel on what you can and cannot do. So then, what is the answer to put these crooks and liars to judgement?
Resilience, faith, passion and a huge dollop of plain old stubbornness. We need to persevere in every creative way available to our imaginations. There is no magic wand. Just as importantly, there is no surrender. Breaks as necessary to rest and recharge. Recognition of one's strengths and limitations.
"Never, never give up."
That really is one of the very most critical aspects of any worthwhile effort.
Daily Kos has this article about our asshat governor and his cronies. It is good to see that national people now know of how evil this crew is. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/16/1270235/-South-Dakotans-want-Medicaid-expansion-governor-disagrees?showAll=yes