The Mitchell Daily Republic almost gets the Keystone XL pipeline. In this morning's editorial, the paper acknowledges that burning Canadian tar sands oil makes a messier planet. They admit the jobs created by the pipeline number only 2,000 and will last only a couple of years. (Remember: investing in water and gas infrastructure would create more jobs and do more good.) They acknowledge that China and India are driving demand and that Alberta's oil will be distributed around the world.
But the Mitchell paper still tangles itself in imperfection and says it's time to build the pipeline:
A recent report by the U.S. State Department highlights the jobs the pipeline would produce and characterizes its environmental risks as effectively neutral. Republicans and Democrats are joining across the aisle in support of the project.
It's time to stop haggling and let it happen [editorial, Mitchell Daily Republic, 2014.02.12].
Never mind that the State Department got its Keystone XL report from folks who've worked for pipeline builder TransCanada. Never mind that we are not obliged to give in to other countries' energy demands at the expense of our environmental security. Never mind that the southern leg of Keystone XL is already raising oil prices and that the pipeline through West River will raise them more. We just shrug our Midwestern shoulders and give in to a bad idea, hoping someday, somewhere, someone will invent something better and clean up the mess we chose to make.
We can do better, MDR editors. We don't need Keystone XL.
Oh well, at least higher fuel prices would force hardships that could lead to conservation. Imagine the outcry from Republicans if this land grab was for a wildlife corridor instead for climate killing diluted bitumen.
Can someone explain how Americans,besides the wealthy,benefit from piping dirty stuff across America to Texas port refineries so this crap can be refined and shipped overseas? According to Jim Hightower at Otherwords.org,that has been the plan from its inception. I have read recently where the southern leg of this albatross pipeline has had over 100 structural problems and it isn't even on line yet. Taxpayers are on the hook for environmental messes,thanks to rethuglicans. Just like dumb bass dubya's two wars for the hell of it,what the hell do we,as citizens,win with this mess?
Mitchell has become the dysfunctional person that finally decides that their loved one should have the money to buy the black tar heroin that they need to be able to cope. There is no more need for this pipeline that a need for more heroin to enter the marketplace for junkie consumers. They have missed the mark on this one.
Funny how the shortest route to the Ocean is to the West, but the Tribes in Canada have way more power over their government, or maybe I should say respect from their government than do the tribes in the United States of (Greed) or I mean America. How is it that our government has become whores for anybody with a buck, but NSA is investigating anything to do with sex in this country. I guess prostitution involving sex is the only prostitution that counts.
"Can someone explain how Americans,besides the wealthy,benefit from piping dirty stuff across America to Texas port refineries so this crap can be refined and shipped overseas?"
I'll help you out Mike. Currently, ND is seeing 2-3 rail spills a month and multiple truck spills. Our land has had 2 spills in the past 10 years directly attributed to human error. Considering the most recent disaster in Casselton ND, one in Minnesota, and the major catastrophe in Canada....the increased shipment of oil by rail is only going to create more spills with our dilapidated lines.
The oil is coming whether you or I like it. I, along with the State Dept, understand that the environmental damage of shipping this oil by rail, barge, or ship is going to be much more detrimental than shipping the oil by pipeline. Not only will it be better for the environment, it is also going to help production of domestic oil by freeing up forms of transportation as well as allowing bakken oil to be pumped into the pipeline. The propane shortage and natural gas shortage will also be limited with a new pipeline.
The only valid reason i have heard to be against keystone xl deals with eminent domain....In that case, the country comes before the person. So instead of making Warren Buffet rich by not building the pipeline or creating a greater environmental impact by shipping this oil by rail..........what do you propose we do?
KXL will never be completed. This time humanity is the asteroid.
KXL will be created and you can bet Obama will probably have a hand in it right before he leaves office. Just watch and learn b/c upsetting Canada and not allowing their oil in this country is not an option. We ship more American oil across Canada than KXL ever will ship Canadian oil across the states.
KXL might get created but it will never be completed, ever.
XL is designed to reduce fuel availability in the midwest and drive up prices. All SD newspapers got full-page ads from Trans Canada or promoters. The GOP thinks it is an issue, but that support is apparently because of fossil-fuels contributors or complete ignorance and Obama-hate.
The newspapers and TV slant this in the interest of advertising. It makes no sense otherwise.
As for reasons not to build XL. There are dozens, but there is not a single valid reason to build it. The latest CD indicates that there will be something in the neighborhood of 50 jobs on the pipeline between Kansas and Canada and 13 of those will be part-time.
Libraries in SD have the latest report that came out on January 24, 2014. I have made a half dozen extra copies of the CD. Let me know if you can't find it at a library. Also, SD tribes have received copies. The info in the CD when printed fills about 1.5 feet of library shelf from front to back and top to bottom. About size of old Sears catalogs or a dozen large encyclopedia volumes.
DB even with kxl the shipment of oil by rail is going to increase.
Of course it will bret, so let's limit that as best we can and save the environment. Douglas, you aren't even hitting the wall with those darts.
TransCanada should just paint targets on the pipeline every few feet or so.
http://boldnebraska.org/water
Understanding the State Department Report on Nebraska's Water
http://boldnebraska.org/feis_summary
Full Analysis of the State Department
Comment period ends March 7, 2014.
Here's the real problem with the editorial: "It's time to stop haggling and let it happen."
Sort of reminds me of what a date rapist might say.
You can be for it or against it, but it certainly isn't time to stop searching for the truth. That sentiment is pretty peculiar coming from a newspaper, an institution that is supposed to keep digging for information and report on it.
I realize this is the editorial page, and there usually is a wall of separation between the opinion and news pages, but you have to wonder how much of that attitude will spread into the news coverage. Even if none will, the Mitchell editorial page has declared itself not interested in listening to the "haggling." "Let it happen." The word selection tips off that facts from here on out facts won't move them. Sad.
DB has the emptiest argument and comebacks ever.
Great addition Vincent. What could we do without your wise input?
Lets stop KXL and save the environment. Lets stop dragging wingnut feet and develop alternatives to fossil fuels. Lets stop giving big awl every damn thing they ask for. They don't produce many jobs and the money is stuffed away in offshore bank accounts to bribe more pols to get more breaks for more of the wealthy.
President knows he could have anything he wants for approving this thing. Expect him to add a carbon tax and some other offsets to a deal.
Gasoline prices have come down significantly since the completion of the southern portion of KXL. Here's a chart of gas prices from the New York Mercantile Exchange that shows it pretty starkly: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/RB_/W?anticache=1392243690. A recent discussion on CNBC concluded that the fully completed pipeline won't affect gas prices much. Regional discrepancies are generally wiped out as gasoline finds its way to the most expensive markets. I'd be surprised if we saw much deviation from national trends here in this part of the country. Here's that CNBC discussion: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101144616a
Hey John, Don't you think that is being just a little disingenuous, considering that the southern section of the XL pipeline just came on line, January 21, 2014?
Agree, Lanny, it's a bit early to tell, but I didn't see any particular jump in spot or futures prices since the Cushing Hub in Oklahoma started moving oil through KXL. The whole energy complex has drifted higher because of the cold weather, but these seasonal events aren't built into the market's structure. I stand by my general point that a completed KXL probably won't have much effect on energy prices. That argument against the pipeline is probably irrelevant and distracting. The focus should continue to be on the environmental impacts.
Precisely my point regarding your comments DB. You come off like a shill for TransCanada plus you offer only often repeated nonsense.
Trans Canada told Bloomberg news the primary purpose of XL is to drive up gasoline and diesel prices in the midwest since according to them we have a glut of crude here keeping the prices down. Philips? and others including Chinese have interests in the pipeline. They aren't in it to drive prices down and increase supply in our area. XL will move jobs to the Texas coast. It won't do anything good for this area and that is part of what politicians in state government here should be concerned about.
Prove me wrong then Vincent. I haven't said anything that isn't true and can't be backed up by facts. Let's see how much knowledge you have on the industry.
Douglas, you are operating under the assumption that refineries in the midwest will be turned down since Canadian oil will be sent to the gulf rather than the midwest. If that is true, why is ND in the process of building two refineries, along with SD considering one if the demand for oil refining in the midwest is going to drop? It makes no sense. ND oil production is set to increase and the infrastructure is the main thing holding it back. It's only a matter of time before NW SD is inundated with drilling rigs. If we are smart, we'd be building a refinery and mandating a percentage of that production must stay in the state.....but SD has a tendency to expect their dirty work to be done by other states.
Prove what? That you have provided nothing factual. That all you have is this arrogant know it all bravado while knowing very little. You are a shill for big oil and the Koch brothers.
Nice argument Vincent. At least Douglas can regurgitate liberal blog points which is still a step ahead of what you have contributed.
Does anyone have access to the memory hole of Keystone I and the promises made on jobs created vs. actual jobs delivered?
I am sure you would just love the KXL pipeline built right in your backyard, DB.
http://bismarcktribune.com/bakken/north-dakota-oil-spill-cleanup-to-last-at-least-two/article_c3af1d8c-9365-11e3-bc88-0019bb2963f4.html
It's the farmers and ranchers I feel bad for, since it'll only be a matter of time before accidents like this will be a common occurrence in SD if KXL gets built. But since it's obviously not going to be built in DB's neighborhood it's okay.
http://bakken.com/news/id/34057/unreported-nearly-300-nd-oil-pipeline-spills/ ND doesn't even report their pipeline spills to the public. I could really see the same kind of damage control secrecy game going on in SD also if KXL happens. Who are we kidding?
What is all the talk about domestic fuel prices in our part of the country when the pipeline oil is to be shipped to China?
I guess these 47 people feel different about shipping all this oil by rail.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_derailment
It's too bad they couldn't find their bodies.
I guess if we want to see more and more of this, don't build the pipeline.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/30/train-derailment_n_4520730.html
http://www.tarsandsblockade.org/tar-sands-spill-train-derailment-minnesota/
You can complain about pipeline spills all you want, but it's still nothing compared to the amount of oil spilled by rail, truck, and barge. It' just going to get worse using our dilapidated lines.
"What is all the talk about domestic fuel prices in our part of the country when the pipeline oil is to be shipped to China?"
If people think increasing production is going to cause higher prices.....what do they think if we don't increase production and countries like China continue to increase their demand? Oil is a global commodity so where the oil is coming from and going to is really rather moot because the overall demand/supply is going to drive the price up/down whether Canadian oil is going to china or middle eastern oil is coming here. The source and destination has no bearing if supply is meeting demand.
Difference is, DB, we have the supply bottled up in our continent, keeping our prices down. Screw China! :-)
As for trains blowing up, let's not fall into a false dilemma. We could just choose to use less oil. Nothing is inevitable. When it comes to oil, we live and die by our choices. We bear full responsibility.
DB, We are paying for the decisions made by the auto industry and the oil industry to destroy the public transportation system in this country after WWII. So what you are saying is keep paying by destroying the environment even more than we already have, by kowtowing to these two industries, rather than looking for less destructive solutions?
We always should be looking, but turning the oil demand around so that it isn't increasing could take 50 years or more. Do you know how many people will starve to death if we don't increase production and gas hits $10/gal?.....$20/gal? Transportation is a fraction of oil usage. There isn't a product in this modern world that isn't tied to oil including the keyboard we are typing on, the lines the data is sent over, the server it is stored on, and the power to run it all. Stopping China from finding its own sources of oil only means they are going to dip into ours.
Also, if public transportation was killed by the auto industry, why did we bail them out? Wouldn't the lack of vehicle production push more mass transportation since vehicle prices would climb?
Because the millionaire billionaire types, you know, like some of the guys who own Trans Canada, wanted us to, as they wanted us to bail out the banks. Funny thing though DB, I wasn't given a vote on it, although I wrote to my representatives in Congress, but of course they are owned by the aforementioned millionaire billionaire types. And Guess what, GM has moved their manufacture of 70% of their cars to the China to whom we would be shipping the oil and defoliating our own environment in the process. Makes sense right? NOT.
"Difference is, DB, we have the supply bottled up in our continent, keeping our prices down. Screw China! :-)"
Cory, we actually could pull that off for a 100 years or so, but the first 10-20 years might be rough until we get enough wells pumping.
"As for trains blowing up, let's not fall into a false dilemma. We could just choose to use less oil. Nothing is inevitable. When it comes to oil, we live and die by our choices. We bear full responsibility."
I'm all for less oil usage, but i would bet there are even a lot of people against this line who wouldn't give up what they know as "normal". We are talking about a complete 180 in our culture and we are too selfish and needy. I think getting to that point would mean a lot of pain and suffering, or even death for a lot of people. We depend on oil to feed people and that's not something we can discredit.
Lanny, yep and if KXL doesn't go through, there are a couple of Democrats Senators looking to make some good money. Repubs, Dems, billionaires, and millionaires are all looking out for their pocket book. I was against the bank bailouts because I knew my previous employer stood to fill in that gap. When some fall, others will rise. There should be no bail outs for any industry.
Yet to be known is how well Montana property owners will accept a land grab for a Canadian company known for environmental catastrophes even if South Dakotans roll over for rape.
One Montana candidate for statewide office is warning that that state is already on the verge of anarchy because there is a black President. Imagine the Feds coming out to condemn properties for a foreign investor.
Nixon started this B ESS about finite oil supplies back in the early 70s with rationing and gas lines and slower speed limits,etc. It was all based on greed for the wealthy and shakedowns of the rest of America. Then we had Middle Eastern wars under wingnut Potii named Raygun and two dumb bass dubyas to ensure that "OUR" oil was secure under Saudi and Iraqi sands. Now that the M.E. is pretty much destabilized,speculators in the U ESS are screwing us blind. I have never heard so many faulty reasons for oil prices to rise. Bush was attacked by a pretzel-oil goes up. Obama is Black-oil goes up. Obama is gonna steal your guns-oil goes up. Build the KXL and increase supply-oil goes up. Sooner or later I hope citizens would catch on and vote these clowns out of office,fix the activist,wingnut Scotus,and re-regulate korporate amerika so we,the people are in charge again.
http://keystone-xl.com/?gclid=CMrrs9zbybwCFatcMgodSHAAFg
Straight from the north end of a south bound horse. Trans-Canada's sides of the propaganda war.
DB-saving the auto industry had a lot more to do with keeping Americans working and shoring up the economy than trying to fix public transportation. It has nothing to do with saving unions,which is the first thing out of wingnut mouths. Dems argued that dumb bass dubya wouldn't bail out airlines simply because of union employees. Raygun attacked unions,not to save airlines,but to destroy controller's union. Wingnuts in every state they control attack education to weaken teacher's unions. Read some recent history and then find out what ALEC and wingnuts are up to. Ask the activist,wingnut Scotus about their litmus tests on korporations vs unions and working stiffs.
As an aside,big 5 awl companies reported 93 billion in profits last year,$177k every freaking minute of every freaking day,and they still want more taxpayer dollars from Uncle Pushover. Maybe some SNAP cuts for the big boys are in order.
Mike, IMO....the bailouts have only delayed the inevitable. The feds are pumping money into the economy every quarter and I think its only a matter of time before a reset occurs. I hope I'm wrong for everyone's sake but we can't keep doing this.
Every place this poison goes, it will keep killing. The natives in Canada are up in arms about this and more and more, so are the folks in America. Now we are hearing about this new secret venture in Albany, New York. http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2014/02/8540281/battle-over-oil-trains-begins-perhaps-crowded-meeting
I read what is being said about the false flag of the lowering of gas prices due to the lower spur of the XL in action. I say that you can manipulate pricing (as always) simply by just bringing in a few anchored tankers in the Gulf of Mexico and send them to Port Arthur. This is all skulduggery to sell Saudi refined Canadian dirt oil to China and India. We shall see none of it and will pay for it with our blood. If it is such a great deal, why doesn't Canada refine it all and sell it?
Aha, Jerry has finally asked the question that should have been asked all along. Why in the world would a company ship oil with sand in it thousands of miles to have it refined? Everyone knows that, in business, value added product, (in other words processing a product to the closest form of its consumption adds the most value) is the "new" way of doing business. Has anyone checked to see if the Canadian government will not allow the processing the sand out of the oil at the site. Otherwise shipping it in its raw state makes no sense.
As far as the price being down, that is a myth. And if there is a current downturn, it is only because of slackened demand because of the worldwide economic downturn. I have a friend whose son drives a truck in the ND oil fields. For the first time, they are so stacked up that instead of putting it in the pipeline, they are having to load it on rail cars and they have cut back a lot from what they were pumping just weeks ago.
One other thing. If the Obama administration doesn't approve the Northern section of the KXL, it is not because of pressure from the people or worrying about the environment, but more about the fact that Warren Buffet has purchased hundreds if not thousands of tanker cars for hauling the oil to the top of the Southern section of the KXL.
Gas price in NW iowa in December was $2.85/gal for ethanol(10%). It has gone up to $3.35/gal and has been at $3.09 for a month and a half. Tar sands is not refined into gasoline,but dirty diesel and jet fuel destined for China.It was always destined for export,that is why it is being shipped to ports in Texas to be refined. That is where the tankers load it up and haul it to foreign markets.