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Obama and the Outhouse: Racism? Political Expression? Crude Humor?

Golly, that July 4 parade float of President Barack Obama's someday library as an outhouse sure got some attention. Dan Peters and Todd Epp discussed it on KSOO this afternoon. The Nebraska Democratic Party says the float was among the "worst shows of racism and disrespect for the office of the presidency that Nebraska has ever seen."

The veteran who made the float, Dale Remmich, tells the local paper he's not racist:

The rural Norfolkan who created the float in Friday’s Fourth of July parade — which has generated considerable discussion ever since — said the point of the parade entry was to express displeasure with President Barack Obama’s oversight of the Veterans Administration and the treatment of individual veterans.

“I am not a hate-monger. I am not a racist. This float was not disrespectful of the office of the presidency. I am sorry if there was misunderstanding about that,” said Dale Remmich, a longtime Northeast Nebraska and military veteran [Kent Warneke, "Parade Float Generates Discussion," Norfolk Daily News, 2014.07.07].

Remmich says the figure on the float wasn't even the President; it was a zombiefied self-caricature expressing his own disgust with the President's VA policy:

“I’ve got my bibs on, my walker, I’m covering my ears and I’m turning a bit green — I intended it to look like a zombie who has had enough,” Remmich said Monday morning in an interview with the Daily News.

“The float was political satire and an expression of political disgust — no more, no less,” Remmich said. “There was no racism involved, no hate for anyone” [Warneke, 2014.07.07].

If you really want to see President Obama in an outhouse, you have to go down to Bridgewater, where friend of the blog Owen Reitzel finds this seasonal installation of political satire:

Display showing President Obama in an outhouse, Bridgewater, South Dakota. Photo by Owen Reitzel, 2014.07.06.
Display showing President Obama in an outhouse, Bridgewater, South Dakota. Photo by Owen Reitzel, 2014.07.06.
Display showing President Obama in an outhouse, Bridgewater, South Dakota. Photo by Owen Reitzel, 2014.07.06.
Display showing President Obama in an outhouse, Bridgewater, South Dakota. Photo by Owen Reitzel, 2014.07.06.

Reitzel didn't catch whether the Bridgewater biffy bore any "Presidential Library" signage.

The Norfolk float was crude satire and political expression. The Bridgewater display could be seen as mere humor—President in an outhouse! Don't see that every day, ha ha! Neither rises to the level of the overt and vicious racism of the Romney backers at the Circle H Motal in Lake Andes in 2012 or the vileness of the presidential outhouse Mr. Kurtz discussed that same election year in Montana.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with political partisanship on our high holiest day of democracy. Taking partisan jabs at a Fourth of July parade feels as unseemly to me as campaigning at church. In honor of our Founders (or perhaps in an effort to be better than they were?), I'm willing to refrain from throwing blog bombs at Fourth of July parades and picnics (although if my crazy cousin Aaron brings up Ron Paul while passing the potato salad, I'll say game on!).

Still,the July 4 Declaration the struggle to which it committed us made the First Amendment possible. Plenty of patriotic pols home in on the Fourth of July crowds to hand out candy and pamphlets. If the firecracker you choose to light on July 4 is filled with heartfelt political content rather than Chinese gunpowder... well, I may not oooh! and aaah!, but I will nod respectfully at your exercise of the greatest amendment.

As for my Bridgewater neighbors, I can imagine they could be just as nice as the folks down the road (and there must be some) who promote violent misogyny with their wooden cutouts of Grampaw smacking Grammaw's bottom. The Bridgewater folks could rotate their display and give us twelve months of famous people on the looimagine the laughs they could get if they folded Cardboard Mike onto the throne! But hey, you should only put so much effort into toilet humor.

I see no need for to throw the racism flag, but I'm open to a discussion of the civility of these displays, especially of the Norfolk float. The First Amendment says we can make partisan political statements at civic events on the Fourth of July; does that mean we should make such statements, or should we all hold our fire on the Fourth, have a hot dog, and save the partisan debates for after we all shower off the smoke and mosquito spray?

77 Comments

  1. mike from iowa 2014.07.08

    Sexist neighbors you got. The door with the crescent moon on it was for the ladies. The star was for the men(since colonial times). Political humor/statement could have ended with just Obie in an outhouse-symbollizing his presidency is in the s%^$%er. Adding the presidential library sign goes way beyond decency limits,imho.

  2. Donald Pay 2014.07.08

    GW Bush, aka "The Chimp," received similar treatment. Of course, Bush deserved it what with his failures on 9/11, Iraq and the financial meltdown. Obama has been trying to clean up the mess "The Chimp" left, for years, and he's done a pretty good job of it. I'd say Obama is more like the guy who has to come to the outhouse to clean it up after someone has had a bad case of the runs.

  3. Jerry 2014.07.08

    The nonsense story about the VA is a cover for being a total asshat. The congress is spending more time with Bengayzeeee than they are or ever will, with this VA "scandal". This guy in Nebraska should know that if he is following it in the least. This was the only lie he could come up with for being what and who he is. Wait until Hillary is the president and then you will see real hate. The weak and easily intimidated tea party men will most certainly go off the deep end when she leads this country. Bring the stupid on!

  4. Loren 2014.07.08

    Discussion on civility? What civility??

  5. mike from iowa 2014.07.08

    Wasn't Walter Reed Hospital a big veteran's problem for dumbass 43. Something about mold growing on the walls or something. Problems with the VA didn't just pop up under Obie. Some folks have short,convenient memories.

  6. JeniW 2014.07.08

    That is correct MFI. People like to pretend that there were not problems or issues with health care until the day President Obama took office. The past presidents and legislators failed us in that regard.

    Also, please note that although the local VA hospital has, and does, provided wonderful services, it has its problems as well. If a family member of a vet has not strongly advocated for her loved one to be seen and treated by a doctor outside of the VA hospital system, the loved one would have died.

  7. Jerry 2014.07.08

    mike from iowa, that is what I mean. The "scandal" of the VA is not only there but also with the military hospitals that were under the George W. Bush regime and even before that. This is nothing new. If the veteran would have been honest, he would have depicted a worthless congress to veterans and their issues as well as to active duty military. A congress that he votes every cycle to keep the same kind of failures in place, just like we do here in South Dakota when we think of NOem and her failures to active duty military, their families and to the veterans they become. It is a national disgrace as well as a state one.

  8. larry kurtz 2014.07.08

    It's as if W/ Dick created a war to distract folks from its dismal human rights record and kleptublicanism.

  9. Craig 2014.07.08

    In poor taste? Sure.

    Comical? Depends upon how uptight you might be.

    Tacky? Obviously.

    Disrespectful? To the President... probably. To those living in cities without libraries or indoor plumbing? Perhaps.

    Racist? I guess I don't see it.

    This reminds me of that talking doll that was in stores a few years back. It made all sorts of noises none of which many any sense, but someone decided it said something about "praising Allah" and suddenly everyone was in an uproar claiming the dolls were trying to indoctrinate three year old girls with Muslim messaging.

    Sometimes - even when things are entirely innocent, we still hear and see what we want to. Sort of like Maslow's hammer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument

  10. larry kurtz 2014.07.08

    From a GOP POV, Craig? You must be bummed these bozos didn't build the 'library' on a wood pile.

  11. Douglas Wiken 2014.07.08

    No sense worrying about real problems when a bit of humor in a parade drives people half nuts. Manure spreaders show up in parades spreading political crap. Obama is usually attacked unfairly, but that does not mean he should be exempt from raunchy propaganda. That said, such acts usually tell us more about the sponsors than the target.

    South Dakota newspapers regularly print editorial cartoons more disgusting in several ways than is any presidential library as an outhouse. If Obama keeps everything secret, he may not have enough papers to fill an outhouse anyway.

  12. charlie5150 2014.07.08

    This is great. Anyone involved in politics should expect, and encourage humor. I find it telling, and I do base future business response on people or organizations who decide to ride the political humor line. Those that invoke the KKK or a noose, etc are the ones that turn my stomach.

  13. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.08

    Each and every time I hear the "It wasn't racist", or "I'm not a racist", I believe the opposite.

  14. advocate 2014.07.08

    For context, I took this from a facebook conversation in which people were posting similar satires of George W. Bush and his Presidential Library. To use one commentator above...I understand the insinuation when you refer to GW as a "Chimp" but would you use the same word for President Obama?

    "Can the same basic props be used in a satirical joke but applied to two different situations (or people) and thus have two different meanings? The answer is obviously, yes because the two people being poked fun of (GW – a white man, and Obama – a black man) have skin color with two diametrically opposed histories. When people made fun of Bush with jokes about his presidential library, it was a satire of his Southern accent and that time he had the book upside down….This joke though and its appeal to downhomeness through the overalls and outhouse and the enlarged facial features of the manikin appear to me to be in line with the stereotypes of Southern Americans during the first half of the 20th century. Someone mentioned above the Stepin' Fetchit caricature….here's a google image search…https://www.google.com/search?q=Stepin%27+Fetchit+caricature&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ITi8U5KVDM3KOZbhgZgK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1192&bih=720#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=YhIMh7Qb8TQquM%253A%3Bm3FRAy79Rp6jEM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmedia.npr.org%252Fprograms%252Fnewsnotes%252Ffeatures%252F2006%252Fmar%252Ffetchit%252Fmain2.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcharacteractors.blogspot.com%252F2008%252F11%252Fstepin-fetchit-i.html%3B200%3B272

    Here's the deal though…everyone abhors blatant racism….latent racism is much harder to identify and thus thrives in the ambiguity of the parade float. "It's not Obama, it's me.. 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge…'"

  15. El Rayo X 2014.07.08

    The next time our governor asks for disaster aid from the federal government, President Obama would be within his right to ask "And how many outhouses would you like?" He might even send them pre-loaded for our convenience.

  16. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.08

    In another uproar over the weekend was the community newspaper in New York with the headline "THE N%*&#R IN THE WHITE HOUSE"! I could not read the small print of the article, but have been told it was actually in defense of the president. None the less, the headline alone was the news it brought about the comments section on Facebook and other blogs.
    What is disturbing about these acts of political statements is that they occur almost daily.
    In this morning's news, Texas Governor Rick Perry refused to shake hands with President Obama on a airport tarmac, an open and blatant snub of the president.
    Now, one could argue that the unbalanced governor does not like the politics of the president and refuses to respect him for such.
    The perception of such an act does not say that, it say a white southern governor would not shake the hand of a black man, a black man that happens to be president.

  17. Craig 2014.07.08

    Larry not sure I comprehend your message. You feel the GOP point of view is reflected within the float, the message conveyed by it, my comment, or all of the above?

    Roger, does that mean if someone calls someone else racist, or even asks if they are a racist there is no legitimate retort? What if someone was to ask you if you're racist? Makes it rather difficult to deny it based upon that kind of logic doesn't it?

    I of course have no idea whether Remmich is a racist, but I'd guess it would take a lot more than a parade float of an outhouse to convince me one way or another. I was trying in my head to figure out what is racist about outhouses or libraries and came up empty. There are plenty of ways someone could get into trouble using selective imagry known for being associated with racism, but it seems we are at a point where if someone criticises the President, someone else automatically believes it is due to the color of his skin.

    It sort of makes me wonder who the real racists are.

  18. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.08

    Craig,
    How many people do you know that are racist from their comments or actions?
    How many times have you seen the racist signs at tea party gatherings?
    How many people do you know that would deny they are racist even though their words and actions showed otherwise.
    A case in point, Craig Cobb the KKK guy that tried to take over a North Dakota town adamantly denied he was racist, calling himself a white supremacist.
    As a Native American, I have been asked numerous times if I'm a racist and my answer is always a question, what have my words, behavior, or actions cause you to me ask that question?

  19. Craig 2014.07.08

    All Larry? That seems a bit broad don't you think? Surely there are at least 12 or 13 non racist members of the GOP, and perhaps as many as 20 who aren't homophobic. Give or take. /s

    ****
    Roger: "How many people do you know that are racist from their comments or actions?"

    I feel like this might be a trick question.... but is the answer "all of them"? If I know someone is racist, it obviously came from their comments or actions correct?

    "How many times have you seen the racist signs at tea party gatherings?"

    Me personally...zero, because I have never went to a tea party gathering. However I am familiar with "the Internets" so I've seen my fair share of racism on display that is often claimed to be associated with the Tea Party.

    Is that to suggest all members of the Tea Party are racist? Surely not. Just as not all members of the Occupy movement need a shower and fresh change of clothes. Some stereotypes may be based in truth, but I'm not about to make sweeping generalizations.

    "How many people do you know that would deny they are racist even though their words and actions showed otherwise."

    I get what you're saying... but to be fair isn't this a lot like labeling someone as a child molester? Even if they are found innocent... the label sticks and the damage has been done. How can someone prove what they are not?

    I don't know this Remmich character aside from what is written above. Perhaps he is a racist, perhaps not. However I still don't know what an outhouse has to do with racism, so I'm left wondering why the court of public opinion has already convicted him.

    Even someone who isn't a racist could do or say something which is offensive or racially sensitive could they not? I just feel we are so quick to call others racist or homophobic or whatever that we don't take the time to think maybe that person is simply insensitive or ignorant. Does one act or one phrase automatically mean someone is a racist even if there was no racist intent? I'd like to think not, because if that is the case I'm afraid the population is most likely 99.7% racist.

    P.S. - Cobb was arguing semantics, but his words and actions had a defining pattern that any level-headed person would perceive as overtly racist.

  20. Jerry 2014.07.08

    Cobb was also proven to be of Sub-African descent. Life is funny as hell sometimes.

  21. bearcreekbat 2014.07.08

    Cory, this post reminds me of why I now regret enjoying the many Blogmore comments denigrating George W. Bush. One commentator who called himself "bigdaddysback" was exceptionally skillful at demeaning W, who BDB called the "Shrub." I hated Bush's policies and felt he was a terrible president, hence I enjoyed BDB's diminishing comments.

    Today, I think Obama is trying to be a good President, even though I can't agree with everything he has done (think NSA and drone killings). That said, I find the constant attacks and critisms of Obama from the various talking heads, such as Rush, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, O'Reilly, Will, Krauthammer, et al, troubling and even potentially damaging to our country. They encourage disrespect to our political system, our elected officials, and invoke the nutcases to engage in hateful and dangerous acts (think Cliven Bundy's armed defenders).

    I love political humor, yet we seem to have moved beyond that into encouraging anger, hatred, and a distrust of our friends and neighbors who happen to hold government jobs. I must recognize that similar politcal attacks have occurred throughout America's history, and I doubt that the current situation is as toxic as some of the antics in the 19th Century. Nevertheless, I now find these attacks distressing because they inadvertently (or perhaps intentionally) undermine confidence in what we used to think was the greatest nation on earth.

    From my perspective, in the future I plan to try to avoid lusting after attacks on a President or a Congress that I totally disagree with. Arguments about policy make sense. Gratuitous attacks on our leaders and elected officials seems more harmful to our nation than beneficial.

    On that note, I happened to turn on AM talk radio in my 76 Ford pickup on the way to the dump today. Sean Hannity was having a ball attacking Hillary because as a lawyer, she defended someone accused of raping a 12 year old. She apparently expressed doubt about her client's story, yet won the case to Hannity's horror. As Craig observed, the defendant is condemned even if found innocent. And now the lawyer who obeyed her oath and defended the charge is, in the mind of Hannity and his followers, an evil person. Go figure.

  22. mike from iowa 2014.07.08

    What is the name of Perry's Texas ranch again?

  23. mike from iowa 2014.07.08

    BCB-Bush basically gave himself the name shrub. He named his first oil company Arbusto,which he claimed is Spanish for Bush. Molly Ivins said the only definition she could find meant shrub.

  24. mike from iowa 2014.07.08

    So/let's examine wingnuts threshhold for impeaching a Lib. For Clinton adultery did the trick. For Obie-who the hell knows what wingnuts are up in arms about besides everything. Dems knew when they captured both houses of Congress that Bush should have been impeached and they decided mass murder of civilians didn't rate impeachment.

  25. mike from iowa 2014.07.08

    and that rape case Hillary handled was in 1975. She defended her client,after being assigned to the case and she got him a light sentence.

  26. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.08

    Bear,
    Thanks for providing the Salon link, it is a must read for those advocating impeachment. I usually find it tedious to follow links and would rather read what posters have to say than have a link say it for them. This was an exception.

    The Salon link and your comments are equally informative and the sad state of affairs this country is in and more importantly why it is.

    Bill Maher recently said that the new American racism is "I'm not racist". There is truth in that observation, if someone does not display racism in their words, actions, behavior, etc., why would it be necessary to respond to such a allegation.

    There is a greater threat to the attempted of President Obama that has not been discussed and needs to be. Does anyone believe the black communities of America are going to sit back and let an impeachment of a black president happen? Hell no they aren't! We can only imagine the amount of civil disobedience that would ensue.

  27. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.07.08

    Racism and sexism are following similar routes. I remember when nearly all of Johnny Carson's jokes were distorted observations humiliating women. As that became less acceptable, the M.O. changed. Open woman-bashing moved off the airwaves and into social life. After the hurtful remark, and disapproving responses, the big mouth said, "It was just a joke. Can't you take a joke!"

    It looks to me that where we are now is merely the latest iteration of, "You just don't get it! It's your fault."

    This is connected to the dominant white male culture. It's not something that takes deliberate effort on the part white males, though deliberate effort on the part of white males is necessary to create an egalitarian society.

    I don't know if Craig is a white male, but I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that he is. So he looks at the parade incident through his lens, his experiences, his understanding of himself, etc. What Craig is saying is as honest as he can be. No argument with that.

    Here is the place where the error lies:

    Craig, and others who agree with him, need to hear the voices of Roger and others who are not white males, and simply believe them. All of us who are not part of the dominant culture, know things that you white males don't. We've had experiencesome you haven't.

    It's really not all that complicated. Believe us.

  28. grudznick 2014.07.08

    Ms. Geelsdottir, do you waltz?

  29. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.07.09

    And polka. And square dance. And schottische. And bunny hop. And free dance.

    But I'm on good at the last one. I'm so out of practice!

    What about you?

  30. lesliengland 2014.07.09

    bcb-i know bat and i know bear in the lodge but am pretty sure you are not the same. :) none the less, also similarly appreciated salon post for another reason: it lead to .07.07.14 joan walsh/salon article re: hobby lobby and Neb. fed. justice Kopf "channelling ave. 19 year olds' perception of 5 republican catholic male judges telling corp. employing thousands that its religious views are protected-STFU!!" ha! seems to fit your premise, bearcreekbat.

  31. lesliengland 2014.07.09

    well said deb. craig(racism) and les (kochism) don't much like their party being called out.

  32. Craig 2014.07.09

    Leslie... maybe you can do me a favor and let me know what party I'm a member of because it seems you know something I don't.

    While your at it, maybe you can be the one to explain what an outhouse has to do with racism since nobody else seems able to.

  33. Craig 2014.07.10

    Deb, if I understand your post, you are sugesting that I just "beleive" someone because they have had different experiences than I may have had, but I'm afraid in my view a personal viewpoint or opinion doesn't pass the burden of evidence.

    It doesn't take a racist to be able to detect racism. It also doesn't require a person to be a minority to detect racism, or a woman to detect sexism, or an Oncologist to recognize the harm done by cancer.

    There are many ways to suggest racism I'll grant you that, and although some are very obvious (burning cross, noose etc.) others are quite subtle. My only question the entire time has been in what way is this particular example racist? Is there some event in history that has associated an outhouse with racism that perhaps I'm not aware of?

    The thing is, just because someone is critical of our President doesn't automatically mean they are doing so because he is a black man. As hard as it might be to hear, some people may not like some of his policies or positions, and that could very well be why they design parade floats to poke fun at him.

    We have seen examples in the past of people using outhouse humor in conjunction with President Bush yet people accepted it at face value... crude humor - not racism. We also have seen examples of where people called President Bush a chimp or monkey... and we know full well if someone used those terms towards President Obama they would be considered racist. On that example I can agree because there is a history of those words being used in a racist manner towards African Americans. However an outhouse? Is this really racism, or is this merely racism because you want it to be or that you can't grasp that it could be something entirely different. If you want to speak of looking at things through another lens, perhaps that works both directions.

    Like it or not, many people don't like President Obama. Yes some of those people don't like him because he is black, others don't like him because he is a Democrat. Still others don't like him because of his actions or decisions, and there are even still those that don't like him because they incorrectly believe he is a Muslim.

    Doesn't it seem just a tad presumptuous to claim we know why someone doesn't like him or why they would design a parade float to insult him? Are our racism detectors so finely tuned that we can just know something even if the facts don't support it? I simply don't believe that, and since I don't know the man who designed the float nor do I know of any overt or even subtle reason to associate racism and outhouses that would in any way be more reasonable than someone simply wanting to rely upon toilet humor to make a point, that is what I have to go on.

    I'll concede that our own experiences help us to see things others may miss, and what some might find entirely innocent others can find offensive, but there are also times when people generate their outrage while backing into the justification for doing so. I'd say this is one of those times, and considering Cory indicated he sees no reason to throw the racism flag, I'd guess I'm not alone here.

  34. Jerry 2014.07.10

    Agreed, but you have to give ole Craig credit, he wrote a lot of words hiding the fact. I hear the dog whistle.

  35. Craig 2014.07.10

    What am I lying about Larry? So you can tell me what an outhouse has to do with racism? I apparently missed the reference, and if that is true it is due to ignorance... not dishonesty.

    Your map shows there is racism and hate in the state of Nebraska (as there is in every state), but does that somehow automatically indicate anything stated against a person who happens to be a minority is automatically racism? I think not.

    You are entitled to your own opinion Larry, but not your own facts.

  36. larry kurtz 2014.07.10

    That SDGOP is sending their big guns to Madville is a tell.

  37. Craig 2014.07.10

    Jerry, you're way off base. Not much more I can say.

    I realize most of you disagree with me on this issue - I can only assume you are either the type to see racism everywhere regardless of context, or you know something which hasn't been shared here. Perhaps you can explain what an outhouse has to do with racism and fill the rest of us in - everyone else seems to ignore that pesky little detail because having to use logic and explanation may not fit the narrative.

    My father used an outhouse when he was a child, and it was also the area he was taken when he misbehaved and my grandfather employed his idea of punishment. That is the image in his mind when he sees an outhouse, and one shared my many in his generation. Are those memories tied to racism in any way? No... but they are rather painful. He probably has more reason to be offended at such displays than the President, but by all means carry on.

  38. Jerry 2014.07.10

    Of course and my tongue was not firmly planted in my cheek either. It shows I belong to no base, not like yourself of course.

  39. Craig 2014.07.10

    Larry and Jerry. Are you seriously accusing me of being associated with the GOP? Really?

    Frankly I find it disgusting that such accusations are make merely because someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint on an issue. I assure you I'm here upon my own free will and not being paid or otherwise encouraged to post my opinions. Besides, I doubt the GOP is fond of someone who believes we need to take action on climate change and who is in support of the ACA.

    I disagree with your view here - that is all there is to it. No need to get petty or toss out unfounded, baseless accusations (which couldn't be farther from the truth). Instead, maybe you could explain to my HOW I'm wrong... such as in what way is an outhouse something which is now perceived as a racist symbol? Seems everyone has been ignoring that question, but I consider it core to this discussion.

  40. larry kurtz 2014.07.10

    The outhouse is only slightly offensive than the black-face zombie: init?

  41. Craig 2014.07.10

    I didn't see a picture of the actual float - maybe you did thus I'm at a disadvantage, but was it really black faced or merely green as the creator stated?

    Is it the context people have a problem with rather than the outhouse? Are zombies also a racist image I'm unfamiliar with?

    Try as I might, without knowing the man or his motives and only going upon what we are told I just don't see racism. Even if it was supposed to be President Obama or perhaps President Obama in overalls with a zombie face... I still have no idea what that has to do with racism.

    I thnk I'll just give up now. It seems clear people want to call this racism even without being able to explain why - and just because I don't see it isn't sufficient reason for them to change their opinion. But please drop the pretext that I'm anything other than man with an opinion. Thanks.

  42. lesliengland 2014.07.10

    crg-as has been said oft-doth protest too much. if falsely accused of being a repub, say it dont sit on it. pick a party fcs. racism is likely hate. the outhouse library containing our smiling prez appears to be a racial caricature, maybe not, but is not likely intended a joke. i paint all repubs w/a broad brush so when called out, question your party members for taking down a governent or other such blatent stupidity or racism if it fits. if u r 1 of us, help defeat rounds ect!! u aint gonna out-educate these people here who know real racism.

  43. lesliengland 2014.07.10

    if u havent seen the pix, u have no credibility. STFU as has lately been said to far greater people by far greater people than i. stop wasteing precious time fcs!

  44. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.10

    Craig,
    Here's what you need to do, if possible.

    Look at the Norfolk parade float, and other recent acts of racism toward the president, from the eyes of the elder black woman that was offended by the float and reported it to the media.

    Because you cannot see racism when it exist in any form: overt, subtle, etc., does not entitle you dismiss it as humor.

  45. Craig 2014.07.10

    Thought I was done here, but guess not.

    @ Leslie - I went out and viewed all of the photos I could find of the parade float... and the figure standing in front of the outhouse is most definitely green with black around the eyes. It does appear to be more of a zombie figure than a caricature of our President thus since I cannot enter the mind of the man who designed it, my opinion remains unchanged. Even if it is supposed to be a green-faced, overall-wearing zombified Obama with his hands covering his ears I fail to understand how that is racist.

    I'm quite comfortable with my credibility, but thanks for the concern.

    @Roger - so because one black woman was offended and believes it is racist then I just have to take her word for it? No thanks.

    There has been a lot of racism directed at our President - nobody can deny that. However that does not automatically place all criticism against him in the same racist subfolder.

    As I've already said, some people see what they wish to see. Someone might be offended and feel something is racist, but that doesn't mean it is. That isn't to dismiss their feelings, because an elderly black woman has had to deal with varying degrees of racism her entire life and after a point I'm certain it would be easy to perceive even an innocent statement as racist even if that wasn't the intent. I'm merely saying to the average non-partisan, you would have a hard time selling the idea that a zombie figure on an outhouse is sending some type of hidden subliminal racist message.

    Let me be clear here - I am NOT saying this Mr. Remmich isn't a racist. I cannot make that determination based upon the facts. What I am saying is that we don't have sufficient information to make such a conclusion. The man could be the father of three adopted minority children, or he could be hiding a white robe in the back of his closet... I have no idea. My point all along is that I don't see the connection between this float and racism, and aside from the knee-jerk reaction to call anything which is perhaps tasteless or offensive towards our President as "racist", I haven't see anything from anyone which has been able to explain it, thus I cannot leap to the conclusion so many others have.

    Perhaps I'm just biased because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and I think in the mindset of the burden of proof. It isn't Remmich's duty to prove that he isn't a racist even though that appears to be what his critics want. On the contrary, it is the duty of those accusing him of being a racist to prove that view - and from what I'm seeing nobody is even willing to try. Instead they just say it must be racist because someone else feels it is or it must be racist because it has President Obama's name on it. Sorry - I just disagree with that viewpoint and I think it minimizes the effects of true racism.

  46. mike from iowa 2014.07.10

    Let's assume one can't definitely say that is a caricature of Obama on that float. Is it possible one could believe that the float represents a Black man using the Bush Presidential Library for a higher purpose than intended?

  47. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.10

    Craig,
    Something is seriously sour. You said you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, yet you give Remmich the benefit of the doubt and not the black lady that was offended by this act of racism. Why is that?
    This is precisely what minorities and women mean when we talk about white privilege, if it doesn't affect me or I can't see it as racism and sexism it doesn't exist.

    Additionally, I did not ask you to believe the black woman nor accept her story as any kind of fact, I asked you to look at the parade float from her eyes, from here perspective. Your immediate response was why should I believe 1 black woman.

  48. Jerry 2014.07.10

    That is about the best explanation of what is happening regarding race and sexism in the country that I have ever read. Good work and spot on Roger. When the elephant in the room is sitting on you, you must acknowledge it.

  49. Bill Fleming 2014.07.10

    Craig, in an environment of reconciliation, the oppressor doesn't set the rules, and is in no way entitled to make demands on the emotions of the oppressed. Forgiveness is not an entitlement, and it cant be earned. It is a gift. If an oppressed person is offended, it should simply be assumed the offense is real. There's no arguing your way out of it. Doing just widens the rift you are trying to heal (assuming that's your true, altruistic motivation.)

  50. Bill Fleming 2014.07.10

    "...Doing so..." sorry.

  51. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.07.10

    "It doesn't take a racist to be able to detect racism. It also doesn't require a person to be a minority to detect racism, or a woman to detect sexism,"

    Craig, that is not what I said. I said that many, many things are experienced differently by people who are not part of the dominant culture, which is white male in the USA. So when you say that it doesn't look racist to you, that is all that means. Because it doesn't look racist to you doesn't mean it's not racist. It may look racist to 75% of people of color and 65% of women.

    Even though you see it through your white male eyes in one way, that is not necessarily The Correct Right Accurate way to interpret it. It's not about you. Therefore, what you think is not relevant. If a person in the targeted group says it's racist, take their word for it. Their view carries more weight than yours.

  52. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.07.10

    Great comment Bill. Much more succinct than mine.

  53. Craig 2014.07.10

    Roger I never said I didn't believe she was offended, and admittedly I could have used better phrasing. I'm quite sure she did feel the float was racist and I can acknowlege her viewpoint even while disagreeing with her. This isn't "white privilege"... it is simply relying upon the facts presented without reaching conclusions not supported by the data we have available to us.

    Can a person be both racist and not racist at the same time? I would argue they cannot, but some here seem to suggest it is possible depending upon who you ask. I simply refuse to believe someone can be both sides of the coin. Yet throughout all of this and dozens of comments not a single person has even tried to explain HOW this float symbolizes racism. I find that fact incredibly telling.

    It might be offensive, tacky, crude, and disrespectful all of which are supported by the display itself. I am just not so quick to pull the race card when there isn't even anyone willing to go on record and try to explain how outhouses or green zombies are somehow associated with racism or the struggle for civil rights and equality.

    As to Bill's comment it is fine to talk about oppression, but to claim anyone in this scenario is an oppressor requires one to accept that was the intent. Again that is a belief that I feel cannot be supported with the information available to us, and I for one am not going to accept the label of an oppressor merely because happen to be the product of (primarily) European ancestors or because I'm not of the same race as the oppressed.

  54. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.10

    Craig,
    That was an absolutely incredible explanation of why you would afford Mr. Remmich the benefit of the doubt and why you wouldn't extend that same courtesy to the black lady. You really cleared that up. Don't you just hate it when the truth just accidentally slips out?
    As I said earlier, this is the precise definition of white privilege, deny it in as many words as you choose, but it does not alter your meaning or intentions.
    Has it even occurred to you that the people here that see this as racist don't need data to see the obvious? If you don't see it and feel the contempt of such displays, it will make you feel better in defending white privilege and reassure you that you are not racist.
    Again, has it occurred to you that since this has become not only a Madville thread, but a regional and national story, that there must be an element truth in it?

  55. Craig 2014.07.10

    Well clearly you read an entirely diferent message than I typed... but whatever fits your narrative I suppose.

    Actually since I am part American Indian and was born/raised on the reservation I'm going to assume your comment is racist. You'll just have to take my word for it though... apparently that is all that matters.

  56. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.07.11

    Do you see what you're doing Craig? You said,

    "It might be offensive, tacky, crude, and disrespectful all of which are supported by the display itself. I am just not so quick to pull the race card when there isn't even anyone willing to go on record and try to explain how outhouses or green zombies are somehow associated with racism or the struggle for civil rights and equality."

    Because you don't get it, it's just not so. You are your own judge and jury according to your opinion, your experiences, your sensibilities. Because a thing appears a certain way to you, and cannot be explained or described in a way that suits you, it is not so.

    You are the final authority in your mind. You cannot accept that there are many other responses. You are part of the white male dominant culture so you can do that, while Roger and I and others labor in an effort to help you understand. Unfortunately, us non-whites or females need white male understanding because you have the power that we are not allowed.

    Sigh. People who are prejudiced used to call us a gaggle of women, hysterical, cu _ _ _, prick teasers, and much much worse things. They still use slurs like redsk_ _ _, squ_ _ _, and much, much worse. Now those people, except for a few crazy white supremacists, have learned to be quite sneaky. So exact definitions are difficult. It's more like pornography. I can't exactly define it, but I know it when I see/hear/smell it.

  57. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.11

    Craig,

    I have absolutely no reason to believe that you are Native American. People that don't use their full names can say anything they want and expect us to believe them. As you would say, no thank you.
    As far as reading comments, it is you that likely picks and chooses what you want to believe or not believe.
    I explained to you once before about asking people if they are racist, scroll up to find the answer.

  58. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.11

    Deb,
    Agreed. Unless the "N" word is plastered across the float it is not racist. This not a science project where data matters, it is a human experience that many non-blacks saw as racist. But, to give them the benefit of the doubt does not apply to them because white privilege is in play.
    I will relate an experience I had today, there were a group of people waiting to place orders at Starbuck's in the Rushmore Mall, it wasn't really a line, just people walking up and placing their orders. A number of people placed their orders after me and were immediately served. I waited without saying a word until a worker recognized that I hadn't received my coffee.
    When she realized that I was a Native American she was profoundly concerned and apologetic, I could tell she was addled by what had happened.
    Now, I could have easily yelled racism and perhaps may have been right, I didn't see it that way. What I saw were some extremely busy young people doing their job and this old Indian just got lost in the crowd. The young lady offered me a free coffee but I declined, knowing it would probably come out of her pay. I was content to accept her sincere apology.

    My point is that I recognize racism and can call it as such just from life experiences. The white crowd around me didn't see what happened so the "data" they would process revealed nothing.
    As a real American Indian, I have had these Starbuck's experiences happen all my life, including having some very overt acts of racism committed on me.
    Deb, you and I both know the Craig's of this world, there are a too many of them and the worst of it is that they refuse to educate themselves on the dangers of hatred, that's what racism and sexism is, hate.

  59. Craig 2014.07.11

    Deb: "Because a thing appears a certain way to you, and cannot be explained or described in a way that suits you, it is not so."

    Not at all Deb... I've asked numerous times for someone to help me understand what it is that is racist about an outhouse. I'm more than willing to hear the explanation as certainly there are incidents throughout history I'm unfamiliar with and this could be a learning experience, but from what I've read both here and elsewhere in regards to the parade it doesn't seem anyone cares to even attempt to link outhouses or zombies with racism.

    The only response offered here is that one African American says it is racist thus it must be so. By that standard if any non-white feels any display or act is racist, it must be. I just don't follow or agree with that logic. It isnt personal and there isn't any hidden message.

    @Roger - first of all I said I am part American Indian... I do not claim to be full-blooded. Second I really don't care if a random Internet commenter believes me or not because it is a fact, and although opinions can be swayed facts remain constant. I cannot change my ancestry nor can I prove it to you, but the truth is it shouldn't matter. That was sort of the point.

    You can keep your labels and insults though. It seems you are more comfortable using them than I am.

  60. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.11

    Offensive, Crude, Tacky, and Disrespectful, all euphemisms for racism.

  61. Roger Cornelius 2014.07.11

    Craig,

    Should I or should I not "give you the benefit of the doubt" about your claim of being part Indian?

    You claim you want to learn about racism, but you read our comments and react to them rather than digest them and perhaps give them some consideration.

  62. Bill Fleming 2014.07.11

    Okay good Craig. Now, if someone were to create an immediately recognizable image of you in a humiliating situation, or an insulting one and exhibit it in a public place, how would you feel? How might your non-Indian friends feel? How might your Indian ancestors feel? It's a cultural thing. We are ambassadors of our culture, whether we like it or not, and whether we want to do the job or not.

    I hesitate to draw the conclusions in too much detail for you. Work it out in your own mind, because that's where the problem lies–not just with you, but with each and every one of us when we can't see what's going on in the world around us.

    It's usually because we are looking at things too narrowly.

    We are a social species (or as John Dunne pit it, "no man is an island.")

  63. Craig 2014.07.11

    Roger - I'm not going to tell you what to do. Whether you give others the benefit of the doubt is entirely your decision and is likely based upon your experiences and history. What I do know is this post will be my last in this thread (for real this time) as I don't see this going anywhere. I've been called a member of the GOP, an oppressor, a racist, and basically told my opinion is invalid, thus I have a hard time seeing common ground and don't feel it serves anyone's interests to bicker about it.

    People can judge "the Craig's of this world" and attribute all sorts of thoughts or actions to them, and they can tell them to shut up and keep quiet as if they cannot possibly understand, but in my view that serves no legitimate purpose and only serves to drive a wedge between people. I've tried to promote the idea that liberals are generally more accepting of others and other points of view, and they are less likely to judge others due to their race, gender, religion, or sexual preference than many if not most conservatives... but I'd be hard pressed to defend that view after reading this thread.

    I also feel that being offended is anyone's right, but there is a difference between something being offensive, or actually racist. (Yes something can obviously be both, but the two concepts are not universally linked) I have no doubt some people legitimately feel this float was racist, but the opinion of a small number of people isn't sufficient for me to convict the creator. As I stated previously, I don't feel there is enough information available (regardless of what lens you look through) to claim with certainty that this was meant to be racist, or even that it was unintentional racism. You can disagree - that is fine, but there is no reason to take it beyond a difference of opinion.

    I feel some people have dealt with racism all their lives, so they may see it even when it really doesn't exist. They may just assume an act is racist because that is the type of thing they experience each day - whereas soemone else - a person who may even share the same race as the person who sees racism may look at an issue objectively and disagree. They may admit that not everything in this world we find hurtful or offensive is always based upon race. Not everyone will agree - and differences of opinion are not only due to cultural or racial differences.

    Remember, when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail, and if you have been a nail all your life you probably start to see a lot of hammers. I understand the sentiment, and I'm not afraid to call out racism when I see it (and with our current POTUS I've seen it A LOT).

    Either way Roger I appreciate your views even if I may not entirely agree with you. Thanks for the discussion.

    @Bill - to answer your question I'm sure I would be hurt, possibly embarrassed, and perhaps upset. Of course I want to be clear that looking at me you wouldn't even recognize that I have any American Indian heritage, so I'm not about to claim I have ever been oppressed or that I have been on the receiving end of that type of racism. However I understand your premise.

    The thing is, I wouldn't automatically assume someone was invoking my image and insulting me based upon my ancestry even if they happened to know it. My immediate thought might be, what have I done to warrant this - not who am I to warrant this or what characteristic about me warrants this. It is just a different perspective, and unless there are queues suggesting what they are insulting I don't feel I would assume it was based in race because that diminishes the real acts of racism. If we automatically assume every insult or caricature is centered on race the argument loses power because we are using race as a shield against criticism.

    I concede not every racist act is overt and I'm not suggesting covert racism doesn't exist, I'm merely saying in some (but not all) cases people might actually be directing their anger / disgust / bitterness / criticism at something other than race. Amazingly enough it does happen, and in the President's case I don't feel one needs to be African American in order to level such criticism.

    You speak of looking at things too narrowly - and that is exactly what I feel the problem is here, but it isn't only from the view of the outsider. In fact, if someone has been on the receiving end of racism their entire life they may be all they see... all types of people are capable of limiting their perspective - not just those who may disagree with us.

    Ok enough from me. I'm glad to hear other points of view and do appreciate the opportunity so thanks for that.

  64. Bill Fleming 2014.07.11

    From what I can tell, the "president in the outhouse" meme is in reference to that particular president's future presidential library.

    The assumption behind it is that the president in question is too stupid to have very many books and too lasy or somehow bankrupt to have any better library. And finally, so unpopular that he's probably the only one who would ever go in there. Then, of course there are the obvious scatalogical references.

    I'm sure you would agree, Craig, that barrage of insult would mean different things in the context of different presidents, and that it would surely be insulting in a different way to people who have been stereotyped as being stupid and socially unacceptable all their lives than it would to a president like George Bush who in a lot of ways intentionally projected himself as kind of stupid and proud of it. It's not rocket science. Thanks for the chat. I'm pretty sure from your last post that you get this. Good work, brother.

  65. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.07.11

    I happened across this article via Religious News Service. It's a site I highly recommend for anyone interested in an eclectic daily collection of news in the land of the faithful, faithless, and everything in between.

    http://www.christenacleveland.com/2014/07/dismantling-the-white-male-industrial-complex/

    The title of the piece is "Dismantling the white male industrial complex". Here is a quote that gives the flavor of it:

    "So white men become the centerpiece of the offense [against the 'isms'] and everyone else takes on supporting roles. Accordingly, we design all of our plays with them in mind, and we protect them and coddle them and do everything we can to keep them happy."

    What other strategies should be empowered? That's exactly what Christena Cleveland addresses. She disagrees with me at some points. Maybe she's right.

    BTW, I believe Craig's intentions are good. It's his follow up that he's finding so difficult. Keep asking, listen really hard. Don't give up. If you become too frustrated on this topic, try another. It is a worthwhile effort.

  66. mike from iowa 2014.07.12

    Craig,you stated the opinion of a small number of people isn't sufficient for you to convict the creator. Are you aware that only 4% of Nebraskans are Black?Less than 1% are Native American/Alaska Native. Just saying.

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