KELO puts the cart before the horse with this strange headline:
Brief review of causality, Mr. Schaffhauser: We pay taxes. Government uses those taxes to improve roads. If we pay more taxes, we can fix more roads. So more taxes mean improved roads.
We can also consider the inverse with some broader context: South Dakota Republicans pride themselves on not raising taxes. Not raising taxes means less money available to government to keep up with road repairs. Not keeping up with road repairs means are roads deteriorate. So electing Republicans could mean crappier roads. Drive around your county for empirical proof.
Republican Senator Mike Vehle (R-20/Mitchell) continues to try to see around his party's fiscal short-sightedness, but it's tough. He figures the bill for catching up with years of neglect of our road and bridge repair needs is $400 million to $500 million. Yet he's only been able to lead his interim Highway Needs and Financing Committee to approve raising maybe a quarter of that revenue:
"What we're trying to do is say we recognize the need. We're not going to be able to fill it all, but we do realize we have to do something," Vehle said.
The committee passed a list of recommendations that would raise close to $100 million for roads and bridges. Some of it would come from proposed license fee increases. Other revenue sources would come from new or increased taxes on products related to driving, such as vehicles and fuel.
"What we tried to do was, everyone felt a little bit of pain. We aren't just going to make one area pay for it all," Vehle said [Erich Schaffhauser, "Improved Roads Could Mean More Taxes," KELOLand.com, 2014.11.09].
We Democrats don't support raising taxes just for the sake of raising taxes. We support raising taxes only when important public projects need the money... just like Republican Senator Vehle does. But Republican prejudices and pigheadedness prevent South Dakota from raising the money it needs to meet basic public needs.
There is plenty of money to fix the roads already, but it is being wasted. Take for example the 1-90 off ramp for Marion road in Sioux falls. How many crony capitalists benefited by building that? How many crony capitalist will benefit when their real-estate goes up along Marion road?
Ho much money is being wasted on economic development that lines the pockets of crony capitalists. I am sure the crony capitalists applaud Cory's promotion of bigger government.
Some readers here might remember when my friend Sam Hurst was publishing his 'Dakota Day' blog, and the wild outcry he got from rural folks around Red Owl when he suggested that money might be better spent in other areas than fixing roads and bridges nobody uses anymore. I swear, they pretty much wanted to tar and feather him and FedEx him back to that commie California where he came from. Rural SD loves them some roads brothers and sisters, and you bets not talk about getting rid of any of them because... You know, great grandpa... Short cut to the old country school house... What if the creek floods and we have to drive around... Stuff like that.
I think it's interesting that now the GOP gets to have this discussion, and I see on DWC that my pal Troy has already laid out a position similar to my buddy Sam's.
You guys want those roads and bridges that only a few of you use? Great, here, have 'em. They're yours. Don't want to pay more taxes? Fine, then fix 'em yourself.
P.s. Seems like Sam's old blog is gone. Maybe it's on the way back machine?
Sibby is right: Future Fund recipient, Hani Shafai expects Rapid City and Pennington County to make roads to the property he sells.
Yes Larry, and the SDGOP wants rural roads to corporate dairies so they can supply a French cheese maker. Vehle is a Chamber of Commerce crony capitalist one-world government Rotarian.
Here' same link to one of Sam's articles. Not sure irs the one where took all the heat, but his position is similar. https://web.archive.org/web/20110708222647/http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:south-dakota-is-our-future-behind-us-or-in-front-of-us&catid=13:news&Itemid=19
Was the I-90 off ramp on Marion Road the off ramp Janklow had made in violation of Federal spacing specifications for Interstate off ramps? If memory serves me correctly he had it built and owned property that directly benefited from the newly acquired Interstate access.
Tim Rave said the same thing at the "education" forum in Dells prior to the election. Said their summer study had indicated that the majority of the roads in the state need work. And he warned that the money had to come from somewhere, which I took was his way of saying don't expect more money for education. Was not surprised.
On a side note, interesting to see what summer studies they pay attention to and which ones they ignore!
How pathetic, the SD one-party rule is corrupted down to the roads they build for their buds.
Jones County actually does fix those roads themselves. The ones who use the roads do the maintenance on them and then send the bill to the county for doing so. It works out pretty well as the county does not have to put some much capital outlay into the funding of equipment to do that job. Jones County is not as large as some of the other ones and may not have the same demographics as well.
If you talk to some of the folks that live out in these areas, they are aware that they have a crappy system but are reluctant to toss moolah at a cou
Cory, stop waiving your partisan flag.
According to the 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure, 68% of California's roads are poor or mediocre quality. By comparison, 61% of South Dakota's roads are in similar poor shape. Compare that to our neighbors:
IA: 46% of 114,348 public road miles (0.037 total road miles per capita)
MN: 52% of 138,239 public road miles (0.026 total road miles per capita)
MT: 52% of 73,626 public road miles (0.073 total road miles per capita)
ND: 44% of 86,844 public road miles (0.12 total road miles per capita)
NE: 59% of 93,633 public road miles (0.05 total road miles per capita)
SD: 61% of 82,149 public road miles (0.097 total road miles per capita)
WY: 47% of 28,105 public road miles (0.048 total road miles per capita)
Of those states, ND is just as conservative as SD, yet they maintain their roads. Oil money helps (a lot!), but we also see WY and MT doing pretty well, too. And Texas, a very red state, has a surprising 38% poor road rate. So if anything, we look as liberal as California with our 61% poor road rate.
It's not about party - it's about rurality and resources to allocate per road mile. We have a lot fewer people per road mile than our neighbors, other than oil rich ND, so each of us has to shell out more just to stay even.
To put in perspective, the $400 - $500 million increase is about 1.5 times what the Fed kicks in to repair our roads now. We'd have to double the state contribution to get there. To frame it another way, we'd have to get an extra $600 from every man woman and child in South Dakota.
Mike H. makes a good point about priorities. Mash it up with Sibby's: need roads to the dairies, the cheese factory, and Northern Beef Packers? South Dakota government writes those checks. Need pay for teachers and school repairs? That's the locals' problem.
Wayne B, thanks for that data. I see we're the worst in the neighborhood. Ugh.
So if it's not party, what's the deal? Have we created an unsustainably sparse state? Have we failed to capitalize on resources and opportunities the way Montana, Minnesota, and Nebraska have?
Or has our proclivity for GOP fantasy hamstrung our ability to raise the revenue necessary to satisfy our voracious appetite for public goods?
(And I will never waive my partisan flag. :-) )
What we have done is use a township mill levy to finance fixing roads. That way we have local control over the money. The type of taxes (gas and excise) Vehle is promoting will be controlled by the state. That means more money going to crony capitalists.
And Cory, there is already plenty of money that can go to roads and teachers, but the role of those managing the "planned economy" is to only pay the common folks the minimum it takes to keep them from revolting. You were right when you pointed out that workforce development does not include pay increases to workers. It is about free job training for the corporatists.
So what's your position, Wayne B?
Should every man, woman and child in SD spend $600 each to maintain roads, just because they are already there, but that almost none of them will ever in their lifetime use?
Or should we spend those dollars on health care, education and alternative energy projects instead... Something that contributes to the general welfare and posterity of all and not just the specific nostalgic worship of a bygone era for a few?
I'd like to see an inventory of roads and bridges that need work and the reasons why spending money fixing them rather than closing them is a good idea. Is that study out there anywhere?
The longer we wait to repair and maintain our road system the more it will cost. I hear people complain all the time about our roads in SD . There is only really one fair way to get revenue and that is to raise motor fuel taxes. It is a very simple concept, the more you drive the more you pay. Then you have the problem of accually getting the money budgeted for the roads instead of some other pet project. That is why we lose support for raising taxes in SD
Sibby is experiencing a bout of lucidity: fuel taxes are hardships for young people and tribal members while mill levies are far more progressive.
Check out: Infrastructure Report Card
Those 61% poor roads cost us $194 Million in auto damage (apparently). So it's still about twice as costly to fix the roads than to fix our vehicles. I don't know if that equation ever meets an inflection point (or if we are already past it).
Bill, I don't know if I have a position. Just because I may never drive along 102nd St doesn't mean others don't, or that my tax money shouldn't go to maintain the road. I suppose we might have to revert some roads to gravel, but man that's a heckuva tone you take.
Obviously you have a beef with rural communities. I'm sorry you feel we shouldn't devote resources to those folks. Let me tell you, it's hard to deliver health care to the folks in rural communities if you can't get to those communities on decent roads.
The is a compendium of bridges and non-trunk roadways and road features. I'm pretty sure you can request it. I'm not going to sort through it for you so you can crucify townships for maintaining roads and bridges you deem a nostalgic shrine to a previous era.
So who is gonna raise the taxes to pay for this? We hate government here and that Obama, so where is the money going to be coming from to repair the mess we find ourselves in? Gambling with the lottery does not even work for education http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PK-netuhHA&list=PLmKbqjSZR8TZa7wyVoVq2XMHxxWREyiFc#t=180
After telling the voters what sound ground we are all under with the way republicans have run this state, how are they going to tell those same voters that they made a little accounting error?
(Wayne's last paragraph is a wonderful example of comment-section erudition. Please continue!)
I'm not so sure Bill F. has a beef with rural communities any more than he has a beef with rural schools. I'll let Bill explain just how much of a country boy he is or ain't.
Roads and schools—how'd that pop into my head?
Just as we ask grannies and grampies to pay for schools in which they have no kids enrolled, we ask folks who never drive on 102nd Street to help pay for 102nd Street. Everybody needs and benefits from roads and schools... but school consolidation was predicated on the notion that the benefits from a lot of tiny schools used by only handfuls of people did not provide enough benefit to justify ongoing investment. Is it time for "road consolidation"... which, like school consolidation, really means "community consolidation"?
Fuel taxes are not harder on anyone. We have a transient commercial use and abuse plus a tourist industry that pays some of the least road tax of any state in the US. You like the fees on four wheels grandma pays with her 500 miles per year while you do 50,000, Lar? I thought so.
just paid $2.51 for fuel on the Santo Domingo Pueblo.
Tribal nations should charge tolls on roads for non-member use.
But hang on, look at those alternative budget priorities Bill F mentions: "health care, education and alternative energy projects." Hold that thought....
When we teachers, parents, and liberals call for more K-12 education spending, Republicans say, "No, we can't afford to spend money on schools right now. We can't raise taxes. We need to pour money into economic development. Giving money to corporations will create jobs, bring people here, and through increased economic activity produce more tax revenue. Then we can spend more money on schools."
..Still holding that thought? Change a few words:
No, we can't afford to spend money on roads right now. We can't raise taxes. We need to pour money into health care, education and alternative energy projects. Giving money to hospitals, schools, and inventors will create jobs, bring people here, and through increased economic activity produce more tax revenue. Then we can spend more money on roads.
Am I heading in the right direction, Bill?
Curious how initiatives presented at Madville have actually been adopted by policy-makers.
'They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.' That's how I feel about roads nobody needs, or just think they do.
Yes, Cory. You are heading in the right direction. Keep drivin' brother. :-)
Hey, where'd my partisan flag go? Oh, yeah—
Since states get more than half of their road money from the feds, and since Republicans have made it harder to pass long-term highway funding, I can still blame Republicans, right? :-)
(Psst, Sibby: That Governing article I link here includes this quote: "Republicans in the U.S. House, for example, have been highlighting the potential for promoting more public-private partnerships in transportation and infrastructure." Sib-splosion coming in 5, 4, 3....)
https://cei.org/content/tolls-less-regressive-gas-taxes-force-truckers-finally-pay-fair-share
"Was the I-90 off ramp on Marion Road the off ramp Janklow had made in violation of Federal spacing specifications for Interstate off ramps? If memory serves me correctly he had it built and owned property that directly benefited from the newly acquired Interstate access."
Was Janklow even alive when this was built?
"How pathetic, the SD one-party rule is corrupted down to the roads they build for their buds."
Not sure how you came up with that.
The marion road exit has served quite a bit of traffic coming into the university center. It has also alleviated traffic in the east-west bound access points. I used to drive that stretch a lot and I can understand why they built it.
The brake wear and fuel consumption at toll booths alone costs more than the quarter you throw in the dish, Lar. Over educated idiots spouting dung. Your "Prius" doesn't pay the tax truckers at 5 mpg do. Truckers also pay other taxes we never see.
Yes, ol' Wild Bill was alive ten years ago when Marion Road Off Ramp was built. Unless I'm thinkin' of another road.
The 470 bypass around Denver is license plate/camera pay, Less.
Marion Road has nothing to do with Janklow. Sioux Falls is adding more than a Madison, SD every day, there is little room to grow East but a lot of room west. Marion Road is critical infrastructure not only for the University Center but everything else needed on the Westside.
Let's assess the roads we need based on population and economics, set a budget, and get it funded. To be most repetitive, I don't want to raise taxes for roads until we study what roads we need. The current roads were laid out 50-70 years ago. Population has shifted and roads should reflect that.
Madison every year.
Mike Rounds took Amtrak money and bought himself a plane so Bollen and Benda could sell women to EB-5 investors instead of advancing passenger rail in the chemical toilet.
I thought part of the reason for the Marion Road exit was to help relieve the congestion at the 1-29 exit?
Anyway, I am pleased with it because Marion Road is a straight shot toward where I live.
Yes, it was built before Janklow died.
Wayne B's last paragraph is typical of the knee jerk replies Sam H. got when he made the same suggestion, and the kind I'm sure Troy knows he's going to get as well.
I find Wayne's comment intellectually dishonest and emotionally sensationalist, but yes that's the game. And Troy's seen it played before, as have I.
Even so, this is an instance where our philosophical views are similar if not identical, it's just the superficial policy solutions and priorities that may differ. We have money to build and repair infrastructure, and we know how to get more if we don't have enough. What's the smartest thing to do with that resource to deliver the greatest good to the most people?
In the "You get what you pay for" category of life, we struggle funding our infrastructure and will continue to struggle with our infrastructure under the current spending policies that we have. Roads and bridges, schools, good water, good healthcare, and etc. (You know, the quality of life things we get by giving up higher wages) We literally cannot pay for what we need based on the current income structure that we have. I was a banker for many years, and when my business customer would come in with cash flow problems, we would discuss that you cannot borrow you way out of debt and you cannot control income, so you have to control your expenses. So we delayed the tractor purchase, or the remodel, or the expansion and hoped for better times. Well folks that is what we are doing as a state, Daugaard instituted that, and it going to haunt us for a long time. We are all to become more austere, Dennis wants us created in his image. We are hoping for better times and they are not coming. We can posture all we want about our economic climate and no income tax, and low real estate taxes, and funds that we can tap into to give you another reason to come to Great Places...Great Faces (or however it goes).
The budget cuts of 4 years ago had an immediate negative impact on state employees, and public education, and now we are seeing it in more and more of the public services. Without a doubt it is failed economic policy. We have no way to support the infrastructure we have. It will continue to worsen.
Every January the selected few come together in Pierre for a 35 day cocktail party, fed and watered every night by some special interest, they spend the tiny bit of money we have, and just like my customers of years ago they struggle with the expense side since they cannot control income.
I guess you get what you pay for...
Troy, how much traffic does the Marion Road exit currently have?
Next question, how much has SD DOT budget increased over the Rounds/Daugaard regime?
Troy may not need to correct his "Madison every day" line. Given how many Madisonites go work in Sioux Falls, it may well be accurate to say Sioux Falls gains more than a Madison every morning... and then sends them home to sleep elsewhere every night.
Troy, has this interim committee not done any such review of road needs? Check out some of their documents here (http://legis.sd.gov/Interim/CommitteeDocuments.aspx?KeywordID=397&Session=2014); the committee appears to be looking options to let some roads go back to gravel based on traffic counts.
A very good point of view from a lenders stand point Wayne Pauli. Maybe that is how we voters should look at this as well. What are we getting for our investment in Daugaard's failed economic development? Only corruption. What are we getting for the legislature's lockstep support for that failed economic boondoggle he calls leadership? Nothing.
What will happen when the fed stops sending money to prop up this failed state? You would think that voters would boot a feller out with such a dismal track record, but not here.
Careful what you wish for, Jerry: expect the nutcase legislature to pass a resolution to put Forest Service land into state and private hands.
Kinda like Noem getting the cemeteries handed to us? I guess we should pay for them, after all it's our boys and girls they hold!
Bill, I don't find your comments much more intellectually honest. You imply a zero-sum game where every dollar not spent on roads could be spent on healthcare and innovation. But it's not that simple. Without roads, we cannot deliver healthcare, nor can we attract innovation. Quality of life will diminish without paying attention to the whole equation.
We already spend 80% of our state budget on education & county support, and healthcare. Should we spend more?
I apologize if I seem emotionally sensational to you, but your tone carries a distinct disregard for rural and frontier communities. If that's not how you feel, please set me straight.
You said: "Should every man, woman and child in SD spend $600 each to maintain roads, just because they are already there, but that almost none of them will ever in their lifetime use?"
That's quite the tone. It implies 1) rural communities don't warrant resource expenditures because not enough of them are there to matter and 2) that we should make taxing and funding decisions based upon usage and utility.
If that's true, then all these farmers I listen to complaining about how much they pay in taxes that goes directly to schools have a legitimate beef - it's not like they're hiring highly educated workers to drive truck & the grain cart. So since they're not using the education system very much, I guess they shouldn't have to pay in, right?
I personally reject that philosophy. I think we probably will need to raise taxes to pay for roads, schools, healthcare, etc. I'm worried, though, about how much that will squeeze us.
I'd be real curious to see if Sen. Vehle has in his list of proposals a removal of the cap on wheel tax - it seems silly to me we limit the tax to just 4 wheels, when it's clear heavier vehicles cause more damage to roads and therefore logically should bear more cost for repairs. Construction companies, contractors, and farmers would bear more of the burden, but they're also causing the damage, as opposed to Cory's Jeep (you still have that, right?).
(Traded up four winters ago, Wayne, to a red 2002 Beetle!)
Well, see, that does even less damage because of the decreased axle weight.
Steve Sibson,
I don't know the answer to either of your questions. You could find the same information as easily as I can.
That said, you don't build roads just to satisfy current needs but projected needs as well. Northwest Sioux Falls (where Marion Road is) has the greatest expected growth over the next 10+ years for two reasons: land for development is relatively cheap (supply and demand and lower development costs) which means affordable housing can be put there and much of it is in the West Central School District (for those who prefer a smaller school education similar to what was formerly available in Harrisburg and Tea).
As a taxpayer, I want the DOT to be proactive with regard to projected access for construction as land acquisition costs are much more affordable.
Wayne B, how about a paved road running within 50 ft of every rural home on the reservation? To say I'm trying to restrict rural people's access to health care, schools and markets is bullshit, and if you read what I really wrote, you damn well know it. I'm talking about people who don't want to pay taxes asking for more of something they already have, and that others have paid more for than they have.
Marion road exit opened sometime in 2009-2010. I highly doubt Janklow had anything to do with it.
Bill Fleming usually makes some sense, but I am not making much sense out of his comments on this issue.
A year or so ago, the GOP members of the state transportation committee were on public TV. I asked why taxes were limited to the first four wheels only. The GOP response was that it was too difficult to count all wheels. I guess some of them only have four fingers and no toes.
Roads will have high maintenance cost so long as heavy trucks pay only a pitifully small part of the damage they do to highways and the increased costs of bridges to handle their weight. A loaded semi and trailer probably does about 15,000 times as much road damage as does a car or pickup...at least according to a highway engineer. The idea of increasing taxes on light cars as a solution is grossly unfair. Taxing fuel used in combines, tractors, etc is also grossly unfair. Many of them never get on a public highway...or if they are may be on one of those under-taxed semi outfits.
Even so, everybody benefits from a good highway system just as we all benefit if only indirectly from a good education system.
Rural townships have very little money for repairing dirt roads and gravel roads and old wood bridges. Their taxing ability is seriously restricted.
Exactly Mr. Wiken, the trucking industry though has a lobby that supplies the hooch for our lawmakers while they are on vacation in Pierre. Much easier to soak light trucks and cars than to disrupt their gravy train of moolah. The question really is, how many voters, i.e. light truck and car owners even have a clue about wheel tax?
Maybe getting the ole southern leg of the railway that ran in your neck of the woods some years back would make as much sense now as it did some time ago.
Bill: "You guys want those roads and bridges that only a few of you use? Great, here, have 'em. They're yours. Don't want to pay more taxes? Fine, then fix 'em yourself."
Your words. How few is "a few?" At what point do we say to rural people "you're on your own" and wash our hands of it? If you advocate not paying out of the public coffers to maintain roads to rural communities, then those communities suffer.
Bill, if you think people should pay for road maintenance based upon use, then why don't we do the same thing with taxes for schools? I already said farmers pay more to support schools than they use. Why shouldn't their tax dollars be predominantly used to repair the roads they use every day? (right now only 16% of local taxes get used for roads, but over 60% goes to schools)
I'll not use the colorful language you do to express yourself, Bill, but how morally bankrupt can you be to tell someone who bought a home in the country, paid their taxes for decades, that we won't pay to replace the culvert and they'll have to find another way to get to town, or figure out how to fix it on their own?
Douglas, you and I see eye-to-eye on this. The wheel tax cap seems counter-intuitive.
I believe Bills thoughts are about the bridge to nowhere near Red Owl sometime back that Hurst went into flames over. Prob not all wrong, but he's an old fart that thinks we should all know what's in his brain and only some of us old farts remember that.
.
I asked dot to run legislation as they have in Mn that said if you as a grain elevator off load overnight trucks you pay the fine or even audit the scale tickets. Dot knows the commercial weight tags of our trucks. The top dogs at the highway patrol thought that was too complicated for scale operators.
,
My that sure puts the scale operators with the patrol at a higher level of Intel.
I can see we're talking past each other here. The only way to illustrate what I'm talking about is to take a look at the inventory. The bridge at Red Owl is a prime example. And if in haven't made my point by now, it's simply goes to illustrate the nature of the problem, and in so doing, proves my point whether Wiken and/or Wayne chose to understand it or not. When we have served the minorities in our state who are most truly and critically in need, I'll happily join them in the hand wringing over those who in fact are not.
Has anyone else noticed the lack of activity at weigh stations, other than the interstate? I have not seen any activity around the non-interstate stations for years now.
Let's think outside the box of "pay to play". Maybe we should consider other funding sources.
You know, maybe if we charged sales taxes on advertising, we could use that to help repair roads. Look at all that outside (and inside) money coming into South Dakota spent on political campaigns - think of all the state revenue it could have generated - funds which could be used for roads, expanding Medicaid, and paying more for teachers.
Yes, Wayne. No sales tax on human labor and groceries in ND. Advertising, no taxes. Can you beat that?
Wow, I should get a CDL and work in North Dakota!
Bill, I'm sorry you feel as though I'm talking past you. I'm frustrated you're giving vague responses (and primarily answering with only questions), and expecting me to infer what you mean.
I'm not sure who the heck you mean as "the few" who don't want to pay more in taxes but want to have more in benefits (aren't we all that way?).
There's a well-documented extra cost associated with being rural - and being poor goes hand in hand. Heck, we used to plow the 3 miles it took to get to town so everyone could get out after a big snowfall because it took too long for the road grader to get to us. Nobody ever paid us for the time and fuel.
I don't care if you live in Red Owl, Rowena, or a reservation - you deserve adequate infrastructure to do business, get healthcare, and get to school.
If we're going to abrogate our responsibility to maintain roads, we better reduce assessed property values - who's going to buy that homestead when it takes an extra 20 minutes to get to town because we chose to not replace a culvert?
Charlie5150 you are correct. I travel a lot and those things are pretty much abandoned because the state does not have the money to do that sort of thing anymore. All of the additions in the public workplace seem to be connected with the gaming and those kinds of things that elected officials can count on to keep them in office
How do they not have the money to man weigh stations? Are they not a revenue stream?
Charlie, I would think so!
I'm not sure I'm a fan of making elevators turn in overweight farmers, though it'd be a great way to curb overloading. My beef is from a fairness issue - how fair is it to get 100% enforcement of farmers, but leave construction crews hauling too much aggregate, etc. be?
Anyone who's driven Hwy 50 has seen the consequence of overloaded rigs - those wonderful patch jobs to help shore up the ruts in the highway. One bad egg caused a lot of damage.
Wayne, I'm not a fan of turning anyone in. I'm a fan of sending them home if they're overweight or auditing the scale records. I stopped at a friends ranch on a hot day in ND and coming out of his drive which sits on a curve, a semi went by actually spitting asphalt in the turn. No scale on that road at the far end of the county. That is BS and I shouldn't have to subsidize his waste.
The issue is not whether to build the roads. It's the question of whether or not to justify an increase in taxes to pay for it. The irony is that the very people who are typically most opposed to any and all tax increases are the most vocally in favor of them when it comes to using the money to pay for something they want, even in cases where the need might not actually be all that pressing.
"That said, you don't build roads just to satisfy current needs but projected needs as well."
Troy, that is why tax money is not going to the roads that people use and instead is going to roads that only those on the inside of economic development can profit. That is crony capitalism and it is wrong.
I think Troy is exactly right. Roads that have been being used less and less, are not the smartest ones to repair and maintain.
We need to build infrastructure to accommodate the needs of people where they are going to be living 30 years from now, not where they used to live 30 years ago.
There's nothing 'crony capitalist' about that, it's just good planning and fiscal responsibility.
Seriously, is Troy Jones the only progressive on this site today? LOL
While I didn't read all the comments here is my two cents. I heard the word "economic development" used several times. Just what does the state get out of economic development? Farmers through this new tax system pay income tax to the schools and counties with property tax. When the county or state builds a road to where-ever in Sioux Falls. What does the state get. If the people stop at the quick-shop on the way home the state gets 4% They don't get a cut of the persons wages. His company doesn't pay the state anything "corperate tax".
I send my calves to the sale barn, they are shipped to Nebraska, turned into beef and are gone. Same way with grain, it is raised here then shipped out and its value to the state is gone. Ethenol the exception. The state got no ecomonic development.
I barely made it through high school and don't know much about economic development, but it appears to me neither do the lawmakers and leaders of this state. It appears the state needs a value added tax of some kind.
Wayne Pauli said, "We literally cannot pay for what we need based on the current income structure that we have."
Yes, our income structure is the problem. There is enough money to pay for infrastructure needs, schools, health care, and other needs. Even though each of those may not be fully funded, there is enough money in SD to make a great start.
This is my favorite pastor's stewardship sermon: "We have enough money to pay all our bills and fund all our missions. The only problem is, it's in your pockets."
With SD's excessively regressive tax structure, not enough money is *available* to meet the state's pressing needs.
"There's nothing 'crony capitalist' about that, it's just good planning and fiscal responsibility."
So the bus falls through the bridge on the way to the one family who lives in a remote area of South Dakota.
The planned economy is a Soviet Model adopted by socialists in the 1930s. Conservatives need to understand the GOP calls it capitalism. And Fleming thinks he can still have his cake and eat it too.
"With SD's excessively regressive tax structure, not enough money is *available* to meet the state's pressing needs."
A fake Christian who believes the Bible is false and Neo-Marxist propaganda is the truth.
Sibby is right: nothing written at Madville has any impact on policy whatsoever.
QFA, Sibby.
So what this thread demonstrates is that Vehle is a Fabian socialist and Cory and his followers don't think that is fast enough. Instead they want a full blown communist revolution. We get to a totalitarian world either way.
Who knew Fabian wasn't just a 60s teen idol? Turn me loose.
I didn't know Fabian was involved in a political movement and see no resemblance to Sen. Vehle or is Fabian scheduled to perform at the Corn Palace?
Here is Fabian http://www.fabianforte.net/
Sibby my apologies but you have me more confused than usual.
Naw,Lynn,you're not confused. But you know who is,don'cha?
Perhaps this will add to your confusion, or with a huge dose of discernment, clear up your confusion:
And would you be shocked to find out that Barack Obama is a Fabian socialist? Would you be shocked to find out that there are many Republicans – yeah, Republicans – that are Fabian socialists? Many Democrats, obviously. Some of them are in the United States Congress, right there in the United States Congress, and they're deliberately destroying America. They're Fabian socialists, and you're going to find out today what a Fabian socialist is all about, what their end game is, and when they started. - See more at: http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=4764#sthash.RiLWFJqn.dpuf
Just keep praying for all of us, Sibby.
Jenny, it only took you 15 minutes to read the link? wow!!
Ur boss is wonderin why you ain't getting any work done today, Jenny?
Go check the cows, Les.
Moooo.