"Tea Party fanatic." "Tea Party princess." Holy cow: I don't need to run for Congress; I've got Jeff Barth to throw those lines at Rep. Kristi Noem!
Barth traveled the state last week to formally kick off his candidacy for South Dakota's lone U.S. House seat. Meeting with voters in Vermillion Friday (which meeting already puts him ahead of Kristi Noem in the number of open discussions with voters this August), Barth made his strategy clear: he thinks the Tea Party label has passed its expiration date, and he intends to make it stick to Kristi Noem.
"[The Tea Party's] efforts to destabilize our president have effectively destabilized our world economy and our country," Barth said. "In their efforts to win the class warfare of taking money from Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare and give additional large tax breaks to their friends who are in fact the puppet masters, the plutocrats who have paid their way and bribed their way into power. I just find that very objectionable. ...
"Kristi Noem proclaimed herself a Tea Party person, acted as a Tea Party person (and) supported the Tea Party in their efforts to get Barack Obama. She needs to go," he said [Travis Gulbrandson, "Decision 2012 S.D. House Race: Barth Meets With Vermillion Residents," Yankton Press & Dakotan, 2011.08.27].
Careful, Jeff: you may be manufacturing a little reality there, as Noem has carefully avoided embracing that term. But keep pressing her; let's hear her pronounce her fealty. Either Noem is what Barth says she is, or she's a Tea Party traitor.
Barth also minces no words in defense of America's social safety nets:
Barth also took issue with cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, particularly in light of the "death panel" rumors leveled at the Obama administration over its proposed health care reform.
"As (Gov. Dennis) Daugaard and Kristi Noem and their Tea Party buddies cut funding for these types of programs ... what's going to happen to grandma sitting in the nursing home? Are we just going to roll her out on the street? Are we going to cut food? Are we going to cut care? The true death panel is the Republican Party and the Tea Party working together to dismantle those safety nets," he said [Gulbrandson, 2011.08.27].
Princess, plutocrats, death panels... whatever Barth is reading to get language like that, I'm with him. Bob Mercer may have something to say about word choice, but I say, keep swinging, Jeff!
Mr. "H,"
Do you really think this is going to work in SD? With the ever deepening lows of the President's rating nationally? With the ever deepening economic problems in America? Castigating an active voter group for simply being active? Clearly Mr. Barth has not made the effort to find out who the South Dakota TEA Party folks are.
It appears that folks ignored the results of the last election and are running with the arrogance that is was simply the "climate" that caused the Democratic losses across the state & country.
Well, if we don't learn from history...
Interesting point Stace. But then there is the fact that Congress has reached an all time low in approval and an all time high in disapproval. Add to that the latest polls on Tea Party approvals and disapproval from Pew and AP/GfK.
I'd be interested in your take on these plummeting numbers.
Barth doesn't know Noem from a hole in the ground. She never has been a tea partier. She is a pure oppurtunist. That's it.
Barth has no shot and doesn't even know what he is talking about.
"Mr. “H,â€
Do you really think this is going to work in SD? With the ever deepening lows of the President’s rating nationally? With the ever deepening economic problems in America? Castigating an active voter group for simply being active? Clearly Mr. Barth has not made the effort to find out who the South Dakota TEA Party folks are. "
The reality of the TEA party and the rightwing nonsense will sink in if Democratic candidates display a little backbone and courage to present facts not flattering to the over-inflated egos of the ignorant TEA party supporters.
South Dakota Republicans bask in the sun because Democrats act as if being only a little less Republican than real Republicans is an election strategy. After enough years of this spineless behavior, the GOP and TEA party nonsense mythology gains credibility because there is no real opposition to their tripe.
Contrary to what Stacy says, Barth is the beginning of a Democratic Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter in South Dakota. We have waited a long time for this dose of reality in the news.
@Jana What folks are failing to realize is that "TEA Party" is a state of being concerned with the growing government & loss of liberties. It is not Republican or Democrat, and that population of our country is growing no matter what name they call themselves. If folks want to believe last election was a fluke and only because Democrats were not agressive enough, please roll with that. :-D
Contrary to what Dougy says, the evidence is that America is in a Conservative summer with America continuing to turn against the liberal big government spend, spend, spend that this president has spearheaded. Don't take my word for it, check the 2010 election results... Start at the top of the ballot, who was that vibrant liberal who sprung forth to run against Sen. Thune?
What do I know? The above rhetoric worked so well last election, carry on... :-D
Rep Nelson,
Where were the people who exhibit this "state of being concerned with growing government & loss of liberties" when the Patriot Act was forced upon us? Where were these people when NCLB was assaulting states' rights?
I would be far less cynical about these claims of political neutrality if I had seen evidence about concerns for personal freedom when Republican administrations were shredding the constitution.
As things stand right now, the Tea Party is no different than any other interest group. It will protect its own interests and do everything it can to harm the political interests and constituents of their political opponents. If personal liberty gets in the way of Tea Partiers' self-interests, then freedom be damned; the Tea Party will put self-interest first.
@LK Patriot Act & NCLB is a major burr under many of these very people's saddle. Many have a very strong libertarian streak. The major mistake people make is assuming they are all alike and are a self perpetuating political party. They are not. The Left perceives it as a threat so it attempts to hit them all with a broad brush to dissuade them, clearly it didn't work well in 2010. All the castigation will do is incite them, make them change their name, and work even harder.
For the record, I see some in the Republican Party making this very same mistake.
I think coming out and declaring you want to work for all South Dakotans, then immediately bad mouthing and alienating a group of concerned South Dakota voters, may not be the right message the Democratic Party wants to embrace.
I knocked on a lot of doors and paid my respects to everyone I could get to come to the door, when I campaigned last fall. I got asked a lot of tough questions by a lot of good people. We didn't always agree, as most people are NOT going to agree on every issue. The one thing that I could promise them was that I would always be open in my efforts on their behalf, I am available to them always, I would be a tireless servant on their behalf, and that principle would always come before party.
Thanks Stace. While you didn't address the growing unpopularity, I would venture a guess it's because the actual governance of the Tea Party representatives isn't as good as the ideas, "State of Being" or dogma of the Tea Party. Platitudes don't make for very good policy.
I would also take exception to your belief that the Tea Party is both Republican and Democratic. Of course, with the growing discord between some establishment Republicans and some in the Tea Party, I'm thinking that there will be some pressure for the Tea Party to actually go off on their own.
Just another question what liberties are we losing? What liberties does the Tea Party want to see other people lose?
Stace, you bad-mouth and alienate voters on the left all the time. We are not all big spenders or for big government. I'm for effective government. Sometimes that means government has a role creating an atmosphere that will allow growth and prosperity. All government is not bad, and we can start with regulation needed on Wall Street (housing debacle, unchecked speculation in oil futures.) We all know what a great patriot your are. Others also do heroic and patriotic things everyday. Just because they don't wear in their sleeves doesn't they are less patriotic. The whole system has become so adversarial that people don't go to office to seek solutions, they go on the promise to stymie the other party - case in point - Boehner and debt ceiling vote. He has needlessly put millions of americans at econimc risk merely for hopes of political gain. He got 98% of what he wanted and still pouted like a baby. That my friend, is not effective government, and unpatriotic. So when you want to call someone out for "bad-mouthing" or "alienating" groups of voters, look in the mirror as you speak.
@Jana "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside..." You are correct in that aspect, loose knit group, governance at local levels, but fired up and carried by concerns of the signs of our country's failings.
Have you ever been to any TEA Party gatherings and engaged them? Lots of concerned Republicans; however, a very healthy mix of concerned Independents & Democrats.
The last appears to be your words?
There was a poll done specifically targeting South Dakota folks who self-identified as Tea Party people, Stace. You can examine the results here:
http://dakotapoll.com/dakotapoll-finds-large-majority-of-tea-party-supporters-favor-sales-tax-increase-for-education
Now, Stace, in case you have trouble finding them, here are the topline numbers from the poll I linked to above. Please examine the data, and then tell us with a straight face that you think this represents a balanced mix of voters. If you want to cheat, go directly to the last answer (#58).
http://dakotapoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/11-002-Tea-Party-Dakota-Poll-Toplines.pdf
Perhaps your problem, Stace, is that you have said your own BS over to yourself and others so many times, you're starting to actually believe it, brother.
Stace said - "The last appears to be your words?"
I don't see any of my words in your post, and I still didn't see an answer to the declining numbers.
To answer your question, I went to the first Tea Party rally in Sioux Falls at Terrace Park. I thought the theatrics were over the top and the messages about an inch deep.
I hate to cut and paste like this, but if one is to believe polling (and of course one onlylikes to believe polling that tells their side of the story), then being a TEA Party candidate is becoming less and less popular.
Of course, like any good capitalist running dog ( I kid, I kid), the cross tabs and such are behind a pay wall. So...read what you will into it.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2011/43_now_view_tea_party_label_as_a_negative
Looks like it’s a little more popular to be a liberal or a progressive these days, although conservative remains the best political label you can put on a candidate for public office. Being linked to the Tea Party is the biggest negative.
Rasmussen Reports periodically asks Likely U.S. Voters to rate political labels, and the latest national telephone survey finds that 38% consider it a positive when a political candidate is described as “conservative.†That’s consistent with surveys for several years but down slightly from 42% in January. Twenty-seven percent (27%) see conservative as a negative political label, up six points from the prior survey. Thirty percent (30%) rate it somewhere in between. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
“Tea Party†has suffered much worse. Considered a positive political label by 29%, 43% now think Tea Party is a negative description for a candidate. That’s a net rating of negative 14, making it the worst thing you can call a candidate. Twenty-three percent (23%) put it somewhere in between.
Last September, 32% viewed Tea Party as a positive label and 38% a negative one. That was the previous low point for the grassroots smaller government movement. But that negative finding fell to 32% in January.
The partisan divided on the Tea Party label is perhaps predictable: 56% of Republicans see it as a positive, while 70% of Democrats think it’s a negative. Voters not affiliated with either party also now regard Tea Party as a negative label by a 42% to 25% margin.
Fifty-six percent (56%) of non-Tea party members see the label as a negative.
(Want a free daily e-mail update ? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on August 25-26, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Now slightly more voters (31%) view “progressive†as a positive label, but nearly as many (26%) see it as a negative. Still, that reverses the downward trend for “progressive†over the last four years. In July 2007, it was seen as a slightly more positive label than conservative.
The much maligned label “liberal,†which prompted most liberals to begin calling themselves progressives, still struggles along in last place. Twenty-one percent (21%) think calling a candidate a liberal is positive, while 38% view it as a negative. That compares to a low of 17% and 44% respectively in January of this year. Thirty-four percent (34%) place it somewhere in between the two.
Republicans continue to strongly dislike the liberal label, while Democrats lukewarmly defend it. Unaffiliated voters view it primarily as a negative or somewhere in between a positive and a negative.
Progressive, however, is a positive term for a plurality (49%) of Democrats and a negative one for a plurality (45%) of Republicans. Unaffiliateds are closely divided.
“Moderate†continues to have the best overall net rating. Thirty-seven percent (37%) see it as a positive label, while only 13% view it negatively. Forty-five percent (45%) rate it somewhere in between.
Several prominent Democrats and their media friends charged the Tea Party with being economic terrorists during the recent congressional debate over raising the debt ceiling for their refusal to accept any tax increases. But just 29% of voters think members of the Tea Party are economic terrorists.
More voters still think the average Tea Party member has a better handle on America’s problems than the average member of Congress does, but there’s a sharp difference of opinion between Democrats and Republicans. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Likely GOP Primary voters believe the Tea Party will help Republicans in the 2012 presidential election.
Looks like it’s a little more popular to be a liberal or a progressive these days, although conservative remains the best political label you can put on a candidate for public office. Being linked to the Tea Party is the biggest negative.
Rasmussen Reports periodically asks Likely U.S. Voters to rate political labels, and the latest national telephone survey finds that 38% consider it a positive when a political candidate is described as “conservative.†That’s consistent with surveys for several years but down slightly from 42% in January. Twenty-seven percent (27%) see conservative as a negative political label, up six points from the prior survey. Thirty percent (30%) rate it somewhere in between. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
“Tea Party†has suffered much worse. Considered a positive political label by 29%, 43% now think Tea Party is a negative description for a candidate. That’s a net rating of negative 14, making it the worst thing you can call a candidate. Twenty-three percent (23%) put it somewhere in between.
Last September, 32% viewed Tea Party as a positive label and 38% a negative one. That was the previous low point for the grassroots smaller government movement. But that negative finding fell to 32% in January.
The partisan divided on the Tea Party label is perhaps predictable: 56% of Republicans see it as a positive, while 70% of Democrats think it’s a negative. Voters not affiliated with either party also now regard Tea Party as a negative label by a 42% to 25% margin.
Fifty-six percent (56%) of non-Tea party members see the label as a negative.
(Want a free daily e-mail update ? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on August 25-26, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Now slightly more voters (31%) view “progressive†as a positive label, but nearly as many (26%) see it as a negative. Still, that reverses the downward trend for “progressive†over the last four years. In July 2007, it was seen as a slightly more positive label than conservative.
The much maligned label “liberal,†which prompted most liberals to begin calling themselves progressives, still struggles along in last place. Twenty-one percent (21%) think calling a candidate a liberal is positive, while 38% view it as a negative. That compares to a low of 17% and 44% respectively in January of this year. Thirty-four percent (34%) place it somewhere in between the two.
Republicans continue to strongly dislike the liberal label, while Democrats lukewarmly defend it. Unaffiliated voters view it primarily as a negative or somewhere in between a positive and a negative.
Progressive, however, is a positive term for a plurality (49%) of Democrats and a negative one for a plurality (45%) of Republicans. Unaffiliateds are closely divided.
“Moderate†continues to have the best overall net rating. Thirty-seven percent (37%) see it as a positive label, while only 13% view it negatively. Forty-five percent (45%) rate it somewhere in between.
Several prominent Democrats and their media friends charged the Tea Party with being economic terrorists during the recent congressional debate over raising the debt ceiling for their refusal to accept any tax increases. But just 29% of voters think members of the Tea Party are economic terrorists.
More voters still think the average Tea Party member has a better handle on America’s problems than the average member of Congress does, but there’s a sharp difference of opinion between Democrats and Republicans. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Likely GOP Primary voters believe the Tea Party will help Republicans in the 2012 presidential election.
Looks like it’s a little more popular to be a liberal or a progressive these days, although conservative remains the best political label you can put on a candidate for public office. Being linked to the Tea Party is the biggest negative.
Rasmussen Reports periodically asks Likely U.S. Voters to rate political labels, and the latest national telephone survey finds that 38% consider it a positive when a political candidate is described as “conservative.†That’s consistent with surveys for several years but down slightly from 42% in January. Twenty-seven percent (27%) see conservative as a negative political label, up six points from the prior survey. Thirty percent (30%) rate it somewhere in between. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
“Tea Party†has suffered much worse. Considered a positive political label by 29%, 43% now think Tea Party is a negative description for a candidate. That’s a net rating of negative 14, making it the worst thing you can call a candidate. Twenty-three percent (23%) put it somewhere in between.
Last September, 32% viewed Tea Party as a positive label and 38% a negative one. That was the previous low point for the grassroots smaller government movement. But that negative finding fell to 32% in January.
The partisan divided on the Tea Party label is perhaps predictable: 56% of Republicans see it as a positive, while 70% of Democrats think it’s a negative. Voters not affiliated with either party also now regard Tea Party as a negative label by a 42% to 25% margin.
Fifty-six percent (56%) of non-Tea party members see the label as a negative.
(Want a free daily e-mail update ? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on August 25-26, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Now slightly more voters (31%) view “progressive†as a positive label, but nearly as many (26%) see it as a negative. Still, that reverses the downward trend for “progressive†over the last four years. In July 2007, it was seen as a slightly more positive label than conservative.
The much maligned label “liberal,†which prompted most liberals to begin calling themselves progressives, still struggles along in last place. Twenty-one percent (21%) think calling a candidate a liberal is positive, while 38% view it as a negative. That compares to a low of 17% and 44% respectively in January of this year. Thirty-four percent (34%) place it somewhere in between the two.
Republicans continue to strongly dislike the liberal label, while Democrats lukewarmly defend it. Unaffiliated voters view it primarily as a negative or somewhere in between a positive and a negative.
Progressive, however, is a positive term for a plurality (49%) of Democrats and a negative one for a plurality (45%) of Republicans. Unaffiliateds are closely divided.
“Moderate†continues to have the best overall net rating. Thirty-seven percent (37%) see it as a positive label, while only 13% view it negatively. Forty-five percent (45%) rate it somewhere in between.
Several prominent Democrats and their media friends charged the Tea Party with being economic terrorists during the recent congressional debate over raising the debt ceiling for their refusal to accept any tax increases. But just 29% of voters think members of the Tea Party are economic terrorists.
More voters still think the average Tea Party member has a better handle on America’s problems than the average member of Congress does, but there’s a sharp difference of opinion between Democrats and Republicans. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Likely GOP Primary voters believe the Tea Party will help Republicans in the 2012 presidential election.
Stace you also said: "You are correct in that aspect, loose knit group, governance at local levels, but fired up and carried by concerns of the signs of our country’s failings."
Not sure, but did I miss the part about the funding of the Tea Party?
As far as your lack of pride in America with your ..."country's failings" comment, do you suppose that with the mission of many in the Republican and Tea Party who have vowed to see that our President fails is a good thing?
I will give my opinion of an answer to Jana's question above. The Reps and Tea Party people believe, rightly so it is being proven daily, that Obama's POLICIES are failing. It's not a personal thing about the President, it is entirely his policies. And that is also exactly what the signs carried by Tea Party people show - our concern with our country's failings as a result of these policies of bloated gov't, over-reach of gov't, overly intrusive and job-killing regulations, and belief that all can be solved if only the taxes can be raised.
Richard hits a point that echoed what I was thinking: the Tea Partiers castigated a very large block of active voters—us Democrats—quite loudly in 2009 and 2010, and they seem to think they did well in the 2010 election. The difference with Barth, of course, is that his castigation is accurate.
@Jana & Bill Meeeeeow!
You got me guys, you are correct, I am wrong, Liberal Democrats actually won the day last November, and America is skipping down the road happy with our exploding national debt, record national unemployment, etc., etc. and South Dakota is wrong for not following the lead of the great progressive states of CA, NY, NJ, IL, MN, of taxing & massive deficit spending. Because as VP Biden assures us, we just need to spend our way out of debt.... :-D
@Mike These folks never let the facts get in the way of their rhetoric. :-D
Sure, Stace, they made gains, but they did so by doing exactly what you say Barth will lose by doing: castigating a big bloc of voters. Goose, get ready to meet gander.
Thanks Linda, but you really don't want to bring up the signs, do you?
Jana! Take the shot!
@Richard Sorry, didn't see your post. You bemoan the DC politics of today and yet castigate me for daring to engage on the issues. Folks wonder why we have the wind vane politicians of today and our blogs are bereft of politicians brave enough to post under their own names?
I read everything I can and engage on the blogs to help me see both sides of an issue so I can make better decisions and so voters know that I am paying attention and that I am engaged on the issues. I go out of my way to make myself available to all sides of the political spectrum. Some think that means that I am their personal political punching bag,
You are the one that mentions my career and your dislike of who I am because of that. I can only assume you are talking about the link in my identity, as no such personal mention is anywhere in my postings. You chose to hide who you are, I chose not to hide who I am. You do not want to know who I am, don't click...
Mr "H,"
Holding someone accountable for their voting record and stance on an issue is what we should be doing. The problem is when you are on the losing end of that situation, folks resort to "hey! look over there tactics."
If you folks want to blame the "climate" and believe that more of the same as last election is going to win the day, who am I to stand in your way..
Corey: Jana! Take the shot!
Here's some to ponder -
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-tea-party-signs.htm
Rep. Nelson, I'm not playing, "Hey, look over there!" Neither is Barth. Our game is to look very directly at the Boehner-Ryan-Noem agenda and say how awful, cowardly, and un-American it is.
I will maintain that the "climate"—i.e., economic and cultural anxiety—had a lot to do with the ability of messages of fear, exclusion, and government scapegoating to resonate. As for campaign strategy, I do not recommend "more of the same." "More of the same" would constitute doing the SHS/Heidepriem thing of running to the right and shunning the Democrat label, which clearly did not work. Barth appears willing to try a different strategy: run hard against the right, embrace being a Democrat, and say very forcefully waht is wrong with the Noem-Tea ("No!-Empty"?) agenda.
So I don't get refudiated...you can do a google image search for Tea Party Signs
Barth sounds just like every other politician.
Why do I have this image of my head of Mr. Nelson walking into wall, backing up, saluting, then walking into it again, backing up, saluting, etc. over and over and over? Looking for a breakthrough, maybe?
Reminds me of a story I heard about a guy at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem.
A visiting reporter noticed that the guy came everyday at the same time stayed for about 5 minutes and then left.
The reporter asked him for an interview and the guy said okay.
Reporter: I see you come here every day, stand at the wall for 5 minutes and leave. What are you doing?
Guy: Well first I pray for peace for the Christians. Then I pray for peace for the Jews. Then I pray for peace for the Muslims.
Reporter: Oh, and how do you feel after that?
Guy: Like I'm talking to a %$#@* wall.
I think Jeff (who I like personally) is pursuing a most effective strategy and should keep it up. I hope he remembers to invite Obama, Franken, Sanders, and Boxer to campaign for him too. Giving South Dakotans a clear choice would be good.
Braver than my strategy, Troy. I'm telling everyone I know who wants to run for office to just go ahead and register as a Republican. Saves a bundle in campaign costs. No issues discussion necessary, just name ID. Easy to buy. Any candidate who wants to can have the same TOMA in SD as Noem in 3 months for about $150k. Put up a nice website and FB page and you're in.
(Actually, that's not the WHOLE strategy, just the opening gambit. The rest is proprietary. LOL.)
Stace,
Sorry sir, I don't agree with you. Plus, the Rasmussen Pool shows that the "TEA Party" label is becoming more and more toxic.
Oh, and Troy, I think Kristi should invite Vitter, Ron Paul, Paul Broun, and Louie Gohmert up here, and show where she sits. We can all play the dipstick card; if thats all you are going to play it is weak.
Stace, never checked the link on your name and never said I dislike who you are. You have posted many times about your military service, or at least mentioned it in your frequent posts, and you seem to imply you love this country more than the others without your service, and as a result, your political leanings are superior. From a government standpoint, I don't care if you served or not. Still don't get your need to post all over blogs.
@Richard, my love for Americans, South Dakotans specifically, are well documented in the service I gave willingly to this country. You brought that service up here, not I. I am not ashamed of that service and have mentioned it previously; however, it has also been brought up by others like you. Risking ones life for country is considered the ultimate form of patriotism, not my definition; however, one I agree with. There was a time when elected officials interacted with the voters and our government was better for it. You indicate you are not happy with the state of affairs in DC, maybe the lack of interaction contributed to it...
@Mike Sorry, poorly worded & rushed on my part. Your polls proved the central issue. The definition America understands of Liberal is considered the worst in the poll & Conservative is viewed the best. The Left trying to vilify the TEA Party is working only on the name because most Americans are unaware (as those herein) who these people actually are or what they believe in.
Fools errand to go after a group of people that is simply loosely affiliated concerned voters. If they weren't incited after they stopped being the silent majority, think of how happy they will be for being maligned... :-D
Translation: Mr. Nelson had a job being a cop in the U.S. Marine Corps for awhile. Honorable service, to be sure, but a job just like any other. He's no better American than anyone else is for having done it.
Mr. Nelson,
Fair enough. Personally, while I know to well this will never change, I think the labels of conservative and liberal, or TEA Party for that matter, are far to amorphus and molded into what people simply want them to be. I am sure you are a raging liberal compared to Murray Rothbard (at least I hope you are), and I am certainly a conservative compared to much of my Democratic Party breathren.
I guess my point is that when Liberal or Conservative as an adjective get turned into pejoritives, instead of having an explicit meaning, then why even bother labeling ourselves. Those that think less of us will do it for us I suppose. That is what is happening to the TEA Party (which I do not see as conservative, but reactionary. I cannot follow a clear line of guiding principles; the TEA Party reminds me a lot of the Republican side in the Spainish Civil War. Lots of small groups with totally different beliefs falling together under one umbrealla for a common cause.
Lastly....there is no silent majority. If you don't use your constitutionally given power to voice your beliefs at the ballot box, that does not make you silent; it makes you inconsequental. We shift right, and we shift left with our voting. Was their a silent majority in 2006, when the Democrats took back the House?
Ok, this is my last part, which is simply a plea for spell-check on this page! :)
You guys make me laugh. Want the truth? The Tea Party ideaology is classical Democrat...Jeffersonian Democratic. Both the New Democrats and the Republicans are Hamiltonians. They are only fighting over which brand of Freemasonry should rule over their one-world government...French Templar or British Sion.
@Richard See?
@Bill Was a lot easier when you could just call us baby killers and spit on us, wasn't it? USMC Military Policeman, USMC Marksmanship Instructor, USMC Criminal Investigator, NIS/NCIS Special Agent & NCIS Investigator for a combined 23 1/2 years. Spoken like one who has protested those who will put their lives on the line for this country, yet refused to serve themselves...
@Mike You make some very valid points..
Stace, you're the one spitting on people, and you should knock it off, numbnuts.
Thanks Mr. Nelson. Sibby....ssssshhhhhhh!!! You are ruining my NWO plot by discussing it over and over. Don't make me get all NAFTA superhighway on your tush.
;-) Sure I am Bill, sure I am... :-D
USMC Military Policeman, USMC Marksmanship Instructor, USMC Criminal Investigator, NIS/NCIS Special Agent & NCIS Investigator for a combined 23 1/2 years. = Paid Military Cop.
I have a nephew who did numerous tours in Iraq as an explosive expert, disarming IUDs and who is now back home and in college, Stace. He's also going through therapy for PTSD. He doesn't treat people like you do. No soldier I know does.
You appear to be that rare breed of military cat who seems intent on giving the military a bad name. But I'm not buying it. I have great respect for our soldiers. Just not much for bullies like you, uniform or no uniform.
Stacie Baby will run like a scared rabbit from the toxic TEA party once the source of their funding becomes better known. That will sort willing fools from those simply fooled by corporate astroturf.
Fool tools and toxic TEA are a dangerous combination good for absolutely nothing worthwhile. They make up the partisan smog.
To be clear, I respect the fact that Mr. Nelson served in the military.
And, that doesn't mean his political opinions are any better (or worse) than anyone else's. It doesn't mean that he is somehow more of an American or a better American than the people he served. It doesn't mean that he is right about the Tea Party or the economy, or immigration, or women's rights, or gay rights or anything else.
Fact is, it doesn't mean most of the things he tries to convince people it means.
I'm frequently reminded of Rudy Giuliani when I listen to Mr. Nelson. Rudy brings up 9/11 every chance he gets, thereby exploiting every martyr and hero who died and saved lives that day by trying to appropriate their hard earned brand into his own.
In like manner, Stace exploits the empathy we have for our military people, especially those who have endured combat and would have us believe that because he was among the enlisted, he deserves a specially elevated bully pulpit where no one dares disagree with him or he will unleash the self-righteous fury of a military man being scorned.
I have seen him run this number dozens of times on dozens of people in both parties. He's an equal opportunity brow-beater.
It's bogus transparent posturing, and he should stop doing it before he loses what well earned respect he does have from a grateful State and a grateful nation looking for heroes.
If he would just do that, he might actually grow up to be a hero someday.
I want the Troy vs. Richard campaign. Al Franken versus Paul Ryan in a debate would rock. They're both good policy wonks, and they would lay out the choice with infinitely more clarity than kitchen-table-ride-my-horseys Kristi ever could. Bring it on.
But Richard, I have no problem with Rep. Nelson's "need" to post all over the blogs. More legislators should recognize and respond to that need as their duty to engage in and invite more public discourse about important issues of the day.
Plus, the more Rep. Nelson posts, the more opposition research I'll have at the ready when he and I duke it out for the Senate seat John Thune will leave open when Thune runs for President in 2016.
Noem is oppurtunistic.
I have stayed out of this argument for a long time but it is starting to get a little old. Lets bring some clear minds to the table shall we.
Back about fifty years I started to loose some friends. The first were from WWII. These men, and women were not just in the war because they wanted to brag about what they had done to save our country. They were there to save our country. I knew a lot of these people and to a man none would talk about what they had had to do to get the job done none .
Two of these men were my uncles. Carson Dithmer, a proud member of the First Special Service Force, The Devils Brigade who spent most of his time behind enemy lines doing things that he refused to talk about when he got home. He was and still is one of the most decorated veterans to come home to South Dakota. The other was Glenn Collins a tank commander that was also proud to serve his country but didn’t feel the need to tell us or anyone else what he had to do to win a battle. Both of these men were wounded in action and both returned to their jobs to fight again.
Then there was Laura Allen an army nurse long before there was a MASH but still doing her job so near the front lines that sixty years after the fact and right before she died she still had dreams about it, but wouldn’t talk about what had happened to her.
Then I started to loose friends from the Korean conflict. The last but sure not the least important was Otto Littau from Norris South Dakota. All he would say was “we were there to do a jobâ€. That’s it nothing more. This man had more GOP in his veins then anyone that I know today including you Stace.
Then Vietnam came along. The war that nobody understood but everybody felt the pain from before it was over. Yes I lost friends there to. Some were my own age and that just made their families pain feel that much worse to someone like me that couldn’t serve if we wanted to.
I can honestly say that I don’t know anyone that served in Iraq that died over there in either Iraq or Iraq II. I do however know some that came back with bad enough memories that might not ever be the same old friends again. Some of these men are good enough friends that they come out to the ranch to hunt a couple of times a year. They will talk about their training, they will talk about their travels, but they wont talk about their combat experience. I wonder why.
Back in the early 70s we had a friend that was a full bird colonel that liked to come out and hunt with us all the time partly because he liked to hunt but mostly because he and my Uncle Cars had fought together in WWII. I was privy to a conversation that the two of them had once after watching the news on TV. It was about a flag burning at UCLA. My uncle asked the Colonel what he thought about it and this is the short of what he said. “Carson we fought a war just so people like that could express themselves any way they want to. We might not like that but it is the very reason we were fighting.â€
I got drunk with a young man in the summer of 73 just before he went into the academy. We reconnected last year and to my surprise he is a two star. When I asked him what he had been doing his response was “I was working for Uncle Samâ€. When I tried to press him about his combat experience he just said “I never told either one of my wives and I was sleeping with themâ€.
Now I will get to the point of my post. Stace for someone that has served his country you sure look down on those that are your countrymen. I notice that you don’t have any combat medals or ribbons. Why is that? Could that be the reason for your self inflated ego that you stroke so much? Are you trying to overcompensate for something that just didn’t happen?
I'm thankful for your service but don’t try to make the rest of us look like boobs. Don’t question our patriotism, and don’t try to pull rank on a citizen, an old staff sergeant like yourself should know better.
Thousands of cases as the lead investigator for NC IS? That seems like a lot of cases to me but maybe it could be done. It sounds good on paper anyway.
It looks like you spent a lot of time in Japan taking classes while you were stationed there. More power to you. Then more from the online university. I notice that you have real distain for anyone that went to a real collage while I was reading at your web site.
Yes I have known a lot of real soldiers in my life but none like you. Unlike yourself they were fighting for all the people in this country and many others for that matter, not just the ones that agreed with their personal views. You on the other hand seem to be interested in power. These other men didn’t need to brag about what they had done and wouldn’t put up with those that did.
Don’t try to make me out as someone that doesn't love my country or we are going to have trouble. I have a flagpole in my yard that has been here for thirty years. I still fly the flag that was draped over my Uncle Carses casket when the weather is nice enough not to hurt it. We all serve our country Stace. Some serve in the trenches, and some of us serve through the taxes we pay to keep our military strong.
I would have a lot more respect if you didn’t look down your nose at those of us that think differently then you do. Stop that! And stop bringing your God up when you are trying to make a point. I'm not sure he would want to go with you after reading your post about those you so obviously dislike.
Other then that, thanks for serving our country.
The Blindman
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(Bill D., you tell great stories!)
@Bills A lot of yapping and hot air condemning ME about my military service that the anonymous "Richard" and you both brought up, not me.
You two can take your crackerjack box Doctorate of Psychoanalysis and your incessant attempts to paint meaning or words in my posts that simply are the projections of your own insecurities and go have a group hug with a cactus.
Getting dogged out for the Marine Corps keeping me and my fellow Marines in Japan, because North Korea was acting up, during the 1st Gulf War, by two who never served? PRICELESS! :-D
Yep, you got me gents. 13 1/2 years of protected ease & comfort in the Marines dodging combat through my extensive political connections. :-D
I "managed" to escape further service after fighting 3 medical boards for the blown out discs in my back and "getting" forced out because of those injuries. Oops, then I did another 10 years of ease & comfort as a federal agent. You really got me! :-D
Sorry girls, what you are tasting in YOUR repeated efforts to cough up your version & trivialize my service is the bitter bile of your own insecurities..
It sounds like someone is loosing their temper. Stace I would never condemn anyone for their military service. I am in fact condemning you as a person. Your brashness and arrogance are a poor substitute for intelligence and compassion. Remember I'm not the one that wrote all of your post. What I read is what you have written no more no less. Unless your wife did it for you it just about had to be you presenting your own thoughts.
Now about me. I was born blind. Well that’s not exactly the truth either, I was born with 20-200 vision or roughly a tenth of what 20 20 is. At six months of age I started to wear glasses and thus I became the favorite target for bullies. When I graduated from high school I weighed 95 lbs. and four years later after lots of hard work I topped the scales at 220 I have never been bullied again by another human.
I have done things that most sighted people have never done. From flying hang gliders to bear and cat hunting all over the country. I have ranched and had a thirty five year obsession training and breeding dogs. Through the use of telescopic lenses I have had a drivers license for over forty years without a ticket to my name. I have had three back surgeries, fought migraine headaches my whole life and taken care of my uncle that had cancer for the last eight years of his. I have paid enough taxes to put your kids through school many times without having any children myself.
It is because of these things that I advocate for those that cant for whatever reason. Women's reproductive rights, the right to attend school without fear of being bullied, the color of a persons skin, the freedom to believe in your own religion or not, and sexual equality for everyone.
There are five words that our forefathers wrote long ago that have more meaning then anything else that was written at the time. “All men are created equalâ€. Not some men are better then others, not some men were born to lead and others to follow, and certainly not do as I say because I am right and you are wrong. That’s what voting is all about. One man, one vote, at least giving those at the bottom a chance to be heard and maybe, just maybe helping to balance the bar of justice and restoring that equality that those same men were talking about.
I am a lot of things, insecure is not one of them. I have lived all of my 58 years on a ranch that has been in my family for almost one hundred. As you can see I am not an anomymous person I am the real deal. If you think you can intimidate me intellectually, well it has been tried by better men and women then you and it hasn’t happened yet. If your last post was an indication of your “A game†I can see why the USMC had to let you go after all those years of service.
I will speak no more on this subject having said all I feel the need to say about you or to you Stace. Nuff Said
And I am still The Blindman
No one is condemning you but you, Stace, with every abusive post you file.
Mr. "H,"
Thanks for chumming the water with that US Senate comment.
All this free crack pot psychoanalysis is really pushing my "in-kind" contributions up. :-D
@Bill D As Tiger Man McCool would say.. "Yep, you're the winner." You really got me on that long winded self glorifying tirade. The Marines couldn't break me, but by golly you sure did with that one. Wheeeeewwwee! :-D
Get mad?! :-D (that is a laughing face) Sorry to bust your little bubble, your projected comments are like water off a duck's butt. I simply remember that any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
@Bill F Is it bear or bull baiting that you call your schtick, it hard to tell with all that BS... :-D :-D
I'm starting to think Stace might be trying to appropriate the Democratic Party mascot and making his own brand out of it. Not sure I've ever met a bigger jackass.
To many smiley's
@Bill You are too modest, your reign as the king jackass remains unchallenged... :-D
Stace, when you and I compete for that seat in 2016, I will bust my chops to get Al Franken here to campaign for me. Start lining up your heat now.