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Hickey Ready for Great Class War; Marines Already Occupying Wall Street

"People First Republican" Rep. Rev. Steve Hickey foresees a Great Class War. He says we could see martial law in our cities if that Great Class War escalates... "and it easily could as the left isn't as mannered as the right."

Indeed, those darned ill-mannered, unpatriotic Lefties, hanging out in the street and saying bad words....

(Really, they say bad words. Send the kids or the boss out of the room before listening.)

Nathan Johnson blogs commentary from Chris Hedges that we have to take sides in the Great Class War, that we're either with the protestors occupying Wall Street and with the 99% of Americans whom Wall Street screws, or we're with the screwers. I wonder where a "People First Republican" fits in that dichotomy.

Related (20:37 MDT): Occupy Sioux Falls tells KSFY they will peaceably assemble, not protest. Come on, guys: Steve and I are both spoiling for real class warfare!

Ah, but maybe that's just the line for the press. Occupy Sioux Falls plans to meet Wednesday at Michelle's (324 South Phillips, SF) to prepare for a walk/protest on the 15th. Mayor Huether, Pastor Hickey is on line 1, asking if you intend to declare martial law Saturday....

118 Comments

  1. John Hess 2011.10.10

    Nothing unpatriotic about holding a sign and letting people know you're discontented. This guy is spot on.

  2. mike 2011.10.10

    Let's all just take a chill pill before this gets really out of control.

  3. caheidelberger Post author | 2011.10.10

    I don't know, Mike. If Rep. Hickey is getting ready for class war, don't I need to get ready, too?

  4. Jana 2011.10.10

    The good and right reverend Hickey also had this to say:

    "I made up the term People First Republicans to underscore the importance of making sure we remain of the people; including children and the elderly, the poor and working poor, Hispanics and immigrants, natives, and the unemployed and underemployed middle class."

    I can't wait for the summary of last year's legislation that took care of those that he is so concerned about, but I'm even more excited to see what legislation he has planned for this coming session to turn his words into action. Pastor Hickey, you will help us here won't you?

    Since he still hasn't answered the question from earlier this year as to "what would Jesus cut?" not really sure his heart is in this one.

  5. caheidelberger Post author | 2011.10.10

    Well said, Jana! I look forward to seeing that summary in next year's GOP campaign flyers.

    But at peril of sycophancy, let me start the list by noting that Pastor Hickey did lead the unsuccessful charge on the anti-usury bills that would have protected working folks from predatory lenders. Those two bills fit nicely with what Rep. Hickey is saying above... and with what the Wall Street occupiers are demanding.

  6. Jana 2011.10.10

    So Pastor Hickey, this class war that you speak of...are the children and the elderly, the poor and working poor, Hispanics and immigrants, natives, and the unemployed and underemployed middle class winning?

  7. Jana 2011.10.10

    Thanks Corey for the reminder and thanks Pastor Hickey for the effort on the anti-usury bills. Please try again and this time give a stem winder fire and brimstone sermon so when they vote it down they at least feel a little guilty.

  8. Shane Gerlach 2011.10.10

    Pastor Hypocrite won't answer the "what would Jesus cut?" question Jana. Admitting to himself and his easily confused constituents that he is indeed a hypocrite USING the Word instead of TEACHING the word would no doubt kill his cozy little spot in Pierre that he so covets (isn't that a sin as well?)

    I am so so tired of "christian" politicians hiding behind twisted scripture to show how Patriotic and right they are and how superior their personal beliefs are.

    Stop it.

    Serve God.

    Do as Jesus has taught.

    "Since the totality of His life and action were the expression of God's love, Jesus gives the disciples a new commandment to "love one another as I have loved you." This was not an inculcation to imitate the example of Jesus' love in a self-generated love that "loves like Jesus loved." Religion has failed to understand the dynamic of God's love in the Christian "poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us" (Rom. 5:5) and expressed as the "fruit of the Spirit" (Gal. 5:22). Only when God's divine love is expressed in our behavior do we evidence that we are disciples of Christ. The evidence of Christian discipleship is not in charismatic experiences, orthodox doctrinal positions, submission to various rites and rituals of the church, consistent ethical proprieties, or conformity to ecclesiastical expectation, but only when the character of God's love (I Jn. 4:8,16) is expressed in Christians."

    The Above is from "Christ in You" Bible Studies and best expresses what I believe and have been taught and try to follow. (I do fail as I am an imperfect human)

    I see NONE of the above in the judgmental Pastor Steve Hypocrite. I see nothing but a closed heart and a self serving mind. It is sad and typical of most of the cloth who cross into politics (regardless of parties). You are serving now the people...not God who called you to serve Pastor Steve. You consciously, daily choose to serve in the name of those who bend your ear and convince you of their vote for the betterment of their own self serving purposes.

    SHAME on you for forgetting the most basic of teachings...the greatest commandment. Shame on you Pastor Steve.

  9. Jana 2011.10.10

    “People First Republican” Of course I want to say, now I get why Mitt Romney said that corporations were people too! How could we not have seen it!

    What I need to say is, Pastor Hickey, how can we help you in Pierre to serve the "children and the elderly, the poor and working poor, Hispanics and immigrants, natives, and the unemployed and underemployed middle class.”

  10. Shane Gerlach 2011.10.10

    He's not interested in Helping Jana. It's lip service to get himself elected again. Look at his voting record. He has no desire to serve anyone but himself.

  11. Bill Dithmer 2011.10.10

    Cory I don’t have a problem with people and their beliefs. What I do have a problem with are these same people trying to make me conform to their own particular religions. To me all the major religions are cults. They all try to get more people to attend their church then the one across the street or down the road a mile or two. They all want to control others in one way or another. Reproductive rights, personal decisions where it comes to sex, what we eat and when we eat it, and trying to force what they consider morals on everyone.

    I became disenfranchised with mainstream religion almost fifty years ago when I watched as my friends would go to church on Saturday nights just so they could get drunk and not have to go on Sunday mornings. I saw people go to church on Sunday and then screw their neighbor and his wife or husband on Monday. I watched when back in the sixties in Norris South Dakota there were two churches, a catholic church and a protestant church. When these two churches had bible school at the same time you could hear the kids yell back and forth across the street at one another, “pup licker pup licker”. And from the other side of the street,”cat licker cat licker”. I watched as black churches in the south were burned to the ground in the name of the same god that the people torching the churches claimed to be a part of. And I watched as a man talked his people into drinking poison for a mass suicide.

    For this reason I'm starting my own church. “THE CHURCH OF BILL”. What we believe in is treating others the way we would want to be treated. You know the golden rule. We will have a drink when we want to, use medicinal pot when we want to, maybe even when we aren't sick. We will have sex in whatever position we want to, not just to reproduce but to have fun. If we want to set around on the deck in the nude by golly that’s what we will do as long as it doesn't affect anybody else. Just a note here. Nobody wants to see me in the nude as that would prove once and for all that there is no god.

    I used to go to something that was called Rock Mass with friends in college in Spearfish. There you would find a man that was singing what on the surface were popular songs but with different words. What was that all about? One toke over the line became something else, House of the rising sun became a religious anthem. And my personal favorite someone reciting the old Black Oak Arkansas prelude, “Halls Of Karma” only changing some words around to make it their own. I remember being asked to leave when they found out I was singing and saying the wrong words to their songs. Imagine that.

    For now lets not talk about Buddhism as a religion because it looks like more a way of life then a religion. But for all the rest of the religions, you are cults.! The only difference between the religion that Jim Jones preached and yours is the man behind the pulpit, nothing more and nothing less.

    For now all I can say is that there are two things that we all have in common. We were all born, and we all will die. What came before is a matter of interpretation, the different versions of the bible, and what will come after is all subjective, any bodies guess.

    Come to the CHURCH OF BILL where everyone will be treated equally. Where single malt whiskey and a fine cigar will take the place of mass. Where looking at a picture of a nude person wont cause you to ask for forgiveness unless the person in the picture is real ugly. And where the only morals we impose are the ones on ourselves.

    Im not sure I believe in God. He she or it might very well be out there but I have my doubts that any of the mainstream religions have a hotline to the office of the one in charge. No I don’t give a damn what religion a candidate belongs to as long as they keep it to themselves and not try to govern the rest of us using that religion.

    For now let me leave you with the lyrics to a couple of songs that represent what I do believe in.
    Alice In Chains No Excuses That’s right even old blind men like rock

    It's alright
    There comes a time
    Got no patience
    To search for peace of mind

    Laying' low
    Want to take it slow
    No more hiding
    Or disguising truths I've sold

    Everyday
    Something hits me all so cold
    Find me sittin' by myself
    No excuses that I know

    It's okay
    Had a bad day
    Hands are bruised from
    Breaking rocks all day
    [ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/alice+in+chains/no+excuses_20005987.html ]
    Drained and blue
    I bleed for you
    You think it's funny
    Well you're drowning in it too

    Everyday
    Something hits me all so cold
    Find me sittin' by myself
    No excuses that I know

    Yeah, it's fine
    We'll walk down the line
    Leave our rain
    A cold trade for warm sunshine

    You're my friend
    I will defend
    And if we change
    Well I love you anyway

    Everyday
    Something hits me all so cold
    Find me sittin' by myself
    No excuses that I know

    And then this from Wendy Love,
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=All+we+need+is+love+++wendy+love&mid=4DDF4C5ABC013D435E124DDF4C5ABC013D435E12&view=detail&FORM=VIRE4

    The Blindman

    [CAH: Church of Bill sounds like a hoot. But even that offer won't get me to spend my Sunday morning on bended knee. ;-)]

  12. Steve Hickey 2011.10.10

    Cory don't miss the point of my article. Jana, my entire life is service to these people and there's a couple decades of evidence of me helping them. Regarding the who would Jesus cut conversation, I thought I responded sufficiently with the whole -who would Jesus indebt? counterpoint from last spring? All that is here: http://www.case4america.org/. I'm an early signer of it.

  13. Stan Gibilisco 2011.10.10

    This stuff reminds me of the protests that took place during the 1960s and also during the latter part of the Vietnam war. I never got involved in any of the protests, but I came mighty close to going over there.

    I had lottery number 29. Then Nixon put an end to the draft just in time. I was ready to enlist ... how differently my life might have turned out!

    The people in positions of economic and political power have no idea of what they're doing to the nation in the long term. Unfortunately, I don't think the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters have a good idea of what they're doing either.

    On a light note, I wonder whatever happened to the hack attack that was supposed to take place against Wall Street on Monday? I wanted to see how much success the hackers would have. A great experiment, a great test of our nation's cybersecurity! Result: The Dow gained over 300 points.

    I can sympathize with the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters, but I think they'll make a tactical mistake if they get out of control. The general public will turn against them. We need economic reform; we do not need civil war.

    Maybe we need a good old fashioned nor'easter to test their mettle ...

  14. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Bill Diithmer,
    The most rational piece of writing on religion that I have read here in a long, long time. Maybe I think it is rational because 47 years ago, during my first tour in Viet Nam, I came to the same conclusion you have and established "The Church of Joe". Even changed some verses of the Bible, for example, when Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Became "Dad, give these fools a break because they are so very stupied. We Both know you can't fix stupied, so I am willing to die so that those who can at least admit they are stupied, will have a second chance."

    I do not trust any religious denomination or minister who would arrogantly tell me they are the only way to salvation nor can I trust a human being who with certainity tells me there is no God and you don't want to get me going on politics, politicians and religion. All are self serving.

    In March of this year I visited with the pastor of the Church I was raised in. Imagine my surprise when after talking with him for many hours over a couple of days he looked at me and said, "I would welcome you to the congragation". He understands why I still refuse to call myself a Christian, but says I am one anyway. Agrees that my relationship with God is unique but who is he, as a man to question it since it is between me and God. There are Ministers of God and Jesus out there but as the old saying goes, you gotta kiss a lot of toads to find one.

    God only gave us 10 laws to obey and thankfully God, in his great wisdom, did not make drinking good single malt scotch, smoking a good Cuban cigar and hot sex illegal.

  15. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Joe, excuse me, but do you mean something other than "stupid" when you write "stupied"?

  16. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Meant stupid (spelled it stuped three times this time) just an ignorant old fool who had trouble spelling a word, but in my defense I am taking a steriod right now and been awake for about 20 hours so sometimes my eyes don't see what my fingers type. Not subtle enough to be anything but direct.

  17. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    “what would Jesus cut?

    First Jesus taught us to love our neighbor. So then there is this from 1 Thessalonians 4"

    "9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. 10 And in fact, you do love all of God’s family throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers and sisters, to do so more and more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody."

    So should we cut those dependents on welafare who can work? Is it an act of love to covet from they neighbor thru the government's redistribution?

    So now move on to 2 Thessalonians 3:10;

    'For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”'

    and then Proverbs 13:4

    " The sluggard craves and gets nothing, but the desires of the diligent are fully satisfied."

    And Proverbs 21:25 & 26;

    "The desire of the sluggard puts him to death, For his hands refuse to work; All day long he is craving, While the righteous gives and does not hold back."

  18. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Thanks, Joseph.

    Sorry to ask and didn't mean to embarrass. I was thinking that since you typed it 3 times, you may be coining a new word.

    I think when it comes to the word "stupid" we could probably use one a new one indicating a certain stubborn belligerent intensity and intention.

    Thinking of people who make being stupid a virtue and look down their noses at those who are trying to become less stupid might qualify for your new special brand of "stupied."

    (Pronounced: "stoo-pie-ed.")

    What do you think?

  19. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    What would the greedy capitalists cut?

    Certainly not welfare. The system provides money to consumers of their goods and services:

    Likewise, a growing corollary ideology of statism and corporate socialism spread among intellectuals and ministers by the end of the 19th century. Among the economic interests promoted by the burgeoning welfare state were two in particular. One was a growing legion of educated (and often overeducated) intellectuals, technocrats, and the "helping professions" who sought power, prestige, subsidies, contracts, cushy jobs from the welfare state, and restrictions of entry into their field via forms of licensing. The second was groups of big businessmen who, after failing to achieve monopoly power on the free market, turned to government — local, state, and federal — to gain it for them. The government would provide subsidies, contracts, and, particularly, enforced cartelization. After 1900, these two groups coalesced, combining two crucial elements: wealth and opinion-molding power, the latter no longer hampered by the resistance of a Democratic Party committed to laissez-faire ideology. The new coalition joined together to create and accelerate a welfare state in America. Not only was this true in 1900, it remains true today.

    http://mises.org/daily/2225

  20. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Sibby, many, if not most of the super-rich don't "work with their hands" and are sluggards.

    Conversely the working poor work themselves to the bone for peanuts, and if they won't the sluggards send their jobs overseas.

    So yes, we should cut corporate welfare and raise their taxes to help the people from whom the fat cats pilfered their money to have a better life.

    Amen, brother.

  21. Eve Fisher 2011.10.11

    O Steve, quit worrying about the sluggards: I'm sure you can manage so none of your dimes are going to them, and the rest of us can look out for ourselves. Here's a question to ask yourself: why are you so opposed to government redistribution when it's a matter of helping the poor (sluggards or no), but not opposed to government redistribution when it's a matter of cutting teachers', police, firemen, and other government and civil workers' salaries and earned benefits (like their pensions)? In other words, why is it class warfare only when it's aimed at the top, but the middle class (including unions) are fair game. (I suppose I should put in for an exception, of course, the unions of the sports stars, NBA/NFL/etc., who are allowed to strike for higher wages, because we certainly can't punish their success.)
    Re all this talk of religion, etc. - I am a liberal Christian who gladly, thankfully, lives in a secular state. I do not want to live in ANYONE'S theocracy, because I am an historian and know all too well what happens to individual rights (especially women's) in those. Calvin's Geneva and current day Iran are remarkably similar: repressive, unhealthy, narrow-minded, and dangerous. I'll stick with America, and the Consitution as it is written, especially that pesky, wonderful First Amendment.

  22. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Sibby finally found the reason to create jobs in the Bible. I say halleluja!

    Tell it, Sibby tell it.

    We need to put the country back to work.

    I expect to see you standing in the 99% demonstrations tomorrow, preaching the Gospel.

  23. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Bill, love it, going to add it to my dictionary and yes I am still awake, just can not seem to slow down.

    Reverand Sibson, this poor old ignorant fool has a couple of questions for you. Hopefull you can help me find the answers that I search for and I am more than willing to modify my belief system if truthful and logical answers can be provided.
    "You should mind your own business and work with your hands..........so that you will not be dependant on anyone." My question, Does this apply to you in other words are you a subsistance farmer?
    Have no question on the demonstrators on Wall Street, you are correct, most demonstrators covet the property of other people but is what is interesting is that they are coveting the property of other coveters. So it is sinner versus sinner, would call it a wash.
    I end it with your last three quotes concerning those who are unwilling to work and those the Bible discribes as sluggards. Who makes the decision as to whether or not a person is unwilling to work or is a sluggard, man or God?

  24. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    Bill,

    Does the Bible say we are to depend on Ceasar (government) to provide those jobs?

  25. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "My question, Does this apply to you in other words are you a subsistance farmer?"

    Only subsistance farmers work? I do not accept your position.

    "So it is sinner versus sinner, would call it a wash."

    Not so, eternal life is at stake here.

    "Who makes the decision as to whether or not a person is unwilling to work or is a sluggard, man or God?"

    The person. So why would we promote a system that encourages sin?

  26. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    I'll answer that Bill cause I have struggled with that question for a long time. "Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and unto God the things that are God,s."
    My take is that God holds us responsible for the spiritual things not the physical things. If a government of the people determines that it should provide a service, and that service is not contrary to one the Ten Commandents(God's only laws) then the citizen is obligated by God to obey. Gets a lot deeper when you start talking a cop or a soldier killing.

  27. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    Joseph,

    Did Jesus say give to Ceasar so he can care for the sluggards, therefore you don't have too?

  28. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Reverand,
    A true subsistance farmer who grows his own food and his own seed is the only person who is not dependent on someone else. Do not know if you are a full time minister or have another job, but regardless you, unless you are a true subsistance farmer are dependant on someone else for a living. If you sell insurance you are dependant on your clients to earn enough money to pay your premiums, if you are a minister you are dependant on a congregation to earn money to pay your wage. Hence you are dependant on some one.
    No, the eternal life of the demonstrators and those they demonstrate against are not at stake. They merely need to acknowlege their sin of coveting and ask the forgiveness of that sin thru Jesus and they are assured of eternal life. As a man of the clothe your concerns should be to get both sides to understand they are committing a sin so that they can acknowledge and ask forgivness to insure eternal life.
    Who makes the decision. Interesting, you seem to elivate man's decision making over that of God's. I have read the Bible but do not profess to be a student. However no where in the Bible have I seen where either God or Jesus has defined unwilling to work or sluggard.

    [CAH: Look out, everyone! Joseph is starting to sound like Elizabeth Warren on the social contract!]

  29. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Reverand,
    You are getting ahead of me. The steriods make me re read everything a couple of time trying to avoide spelling mistakes.
    Not sure about your question about giving to Ceasar so he can care for the sluggards, but will best guess. Remember God only has Ten Laws. Not a single one forbid Ceasar to take your money and give it to some one else. He forbids coveting not charity. Jesus talks of brotherly love and taking care of ones neighbor not as a law, but I believe, as a clarification of how a follower of Jesus should behave, because the belief in Christ does not come in outward actions but from the heart.

  30. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Larry,
    From an Air Force Daddy to an Air Force Brat: Behave yourself or I'll have to spank you. Don't need religion is the opiate of the masses. We both know any organization can be described as a cult. From the U.S. military, to a cop on the street, to teachers.
    You have however, shown me again, why I do so love military brats, yeah that is you too.

  31. Erika 2011.10.11

    So the left isn't as "mannered" as the right? When our state was proposing drastic cuts to education my husband and I petitioned our government asking them to reconsider. We received two responses. The response from our Democratic representative was gracious, sincere, and apologetic. The response from Mr. Hickey not only lacked grace, it was insulting, and paradoxically mocked the education level of others imploring him not to cut education funding. When it comes to manners, actions speak louder than words.

  32. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "A true subsistance farmer who grows his own food and his own seed is the only person who is not dependent on someone else."

    Does he make his own plow, or does he trade some it from the plow maker?

  33. larry kurtz 2011.10.11

    Dad won numerous awards for conservation, Sarge; just advancing his agenda in his stead...a cult of one, i suppose.

  34. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "Who makes the decision. Interesting, you seem to elivate man’s decision making over that of God’s."

    So if one decides not to work and covet from his neighbor, he can blame it on God?

    And Joseph, I am not a reverend. I am a sinner, fully dependent on Jesus Christ.

  35. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "Sibby, many, if not most of the super-rich don’t “work with their hands” and are sluggards.

    Conversely the working poor work themselves to the bone for peanuts, and if they won’t the sluggards send their jobs overseas.

    So yes, we should cut corporate welfare and raise their taxes to help the people from whom the fat cats pilfered their money to have a better life."

    Bill,

    I am in agreement with you. What you describe is capitalism, and I no longer defend the GOP's capitalism. Too bad Pastor Hickey has not stopped too. The point that you on the left need to understand is that the capitalists favor the welfare state as it provides consumers for their goods and services. And when the left defends the welfare system in the name of Jesus Christ, you guys really are off base from the Truth.

  36. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    Thank you Mr. Sibson, you made my point everyone in todays society is dependant on some one, from the richest to the poorest including you.
    No, if you choose not to work and do not covet you break no law of God's. If you work and covet you break law. No blame goes to God because he merely establishes the law, man chooses to break or obey.

  37. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "Thank you Mr. Sibson, you made my point everyone in todays society is dependant on some one, from the richest to the poorest including you."

    Joseph, the question is are you dependent on your neighbor for what you yourself can do. And second, you take instead of trade.

  38. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    And third, if you take, do you love your neighbor?

  39. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Cool. I think we're finally getting somewhere. Steve.

  40. larry kurtz 2011.10.11

    you have the patience of job, bill.

  41. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "No, if you choose not to work and do not covet you break no law of God’s."

    Joseph, what would Jesus have us do? Care for the widows, the fatherless, the sick, and others who can't care for themselves. So if you choose not to work, how well will you be able to do what Jesus said?

  42. joseph g thompson 2011.10.11

    Steve,
    Jesus provides us gudance as how a Christian should live. God tells us how we must live if we wish for eternal life. If we can not live IAW God's law, then God gave you a simple way to gain eternal life admit all of your violations of His laws,believe in his Son and sincerly ask for forgiveness.
    Wow, all this from someone who is not a Christian.
    Forgive any grammer/spelling errors, but by golly I think I can go to sleep,finaly

  43. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Steve, see Matt. 25: 31- 40

  44. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Larry, thanks. Sibby helped me develop it. :lol:

  45. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "Wow, all this from someone who is not a Christian."

    Joseph, you forget repentence. Otherwise you have a false conversion.

  46. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "Steve, see Matt. 25: 31- 40"

    So it is not up to Ceasar now isn't it Bill. We will be separated at the time of judgement. What I was told at college about welfare saving the souls of the rich was total crap. The Truth...the rich are using welfare to their own benefit.

  47. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    And Bill, we need to be careful with verse 40:

    ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    Would the goats be His brothers and sisters?

  48. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    Yes.

  49. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    We're not the ones who get to judge, Sibby.

  50. Eve Fisher 2011.10.11

    Of course, Steve, you are making the assumption that you can tell who is choosing not to work and who really can't work. Some disabilities, such as mental disorders, are not physically obvious. You have to actually get to know them.
    Dividing the poor into the deserving and undeserving is mostly a Victorian invention, to decide who would be eligible for the (very grim) care of the poorhouses and who should be (literally) whipped on to the next town. Undoubtedly practical; certainly miles away from Jesus' parable of the sheep and the goats (thanks, Bill!) and his terse statement "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
    Meanwhile, what I want to know is, why do you continue to harp on this topic of sluggards? Who do you actually know who isn't working and is getting your money? Everyone I know is working hard for their money, and the only people I know on SSI are a lady who's been paralyzed since she was 2 with polio, a young man who's been left handicapped by meningitis, some of the ECCO people, and a widow whose children receive SSI until they're grown. I don't begrudge any of them a penny.

  51. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "We’re not the ones who get to judge, Sibby."

    Bill, does that apply to eternal life only? Otherwise we need to scrap the Supreme Court and the entire so-called Justice System.

    Here is what Jesus said to do about goats:

    "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town." Mathew 10:14.

    Sake the dust off, means to separate from. Isn't that what Jesus is doing in Mathew 25?

    Bill we can play Bible twister all day. It is not hard to use Bible verses to paint any picture you want. From a Biblical standpoint, the question as to who should be given help should be up to us as individuals. Simply turning it over to Ceasar was not what Jesus had in mine. And it was not me who decided to bring Jesus into this discussion.

  52. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "You have to actually get to know them."

    Eve, don't tell me you believe a federal system will be able to "know them" well enough to make the determination?

    Your point only solidifies the position that individuals on a local level have the best means to make the sluggard determination, not government officials in DC or Pierre.

  53. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    Bill, Hebrews 2 gives insight into who Jesus considers brothers and sisters:

    "10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. 11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters."

    Again we differ on the concept of believers versus unbelievers. The unbelievers are the goats.

  54. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    That's how you always get yourself in a pickle, Steve. Judging people. You keep having to change your mind (as you, yourself freely admit). And you haven't got it right yet. Don't be in such a hurry to draw conclusions. There is no way you will ever know what is in another man's heart. Ever. Stop trying and just love them. That's the commandment.

  55. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    Once we all realize that crooks can be rich and crooks can be poor we will stop with the class warfare.

  56. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "That’s how you always get yourself in a pickle, Steve. Judging people."

    Again BIll, send that to the Supreme Court justices. Knowing if a person is capable fo working is not for us to judge? So me the Bible versue on that. I stand behind Thessalonians, that I referenced above, to say we are commanded to do that. To condemn one to hell is not for us to judge.

    Understand the difference Bill. You make judgments everyday, now don't you?

  57. Jana 2011.10.11

    Pastor Steve gave us a link to the response that he supports when questioned "what would Jesus cut?" Here's a link to the ad that the group ran in Politico (the well respected magazine of religious philosophy.)

    Their objective appears to be weighing in on the budget deficit debate and deciding that the Bush/Obama tax cuts, 3 wars, corporate subsidies were OK, but entitlement funding had to be fixed.

    Here's the summary paragraph:

    "In a broader sense, our duty as people of faith is to advocate for just policies that advance human thriving. We believe this means advancing liberty and opportunity through a culture of free enterprise. Doing so will create jobs, alleviating physical poverty while also creating the conditions that allow each one of us to express our talents and experience the dignity that comes from contributing to society."

    Here's a link to the ad written by the group's founder Eric Teetsel.

    http://www.commonsenseconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/PoliticoAd.jpg

    What you will find is that this group is an astroturf part of the American Enterprise Institute and that Eric Teetsel is an employee of AEI and the program manager of the American Values and Capitalism Project at AEI.

    Take a look at the Board of Trustees for AEI and you will see that money can be of concern for them.

    http://www.aei.org/aei-website/managed-content/site-pages/about/board-of-trustees.html

    Persoanlly, I like what Michael Gerson had to say in his August 4th column:

    This use of religion in politics is a source of cynicism. It should raise alarms when the views of the Almighty conveniently match our most urgent political needs. A faith that conforms exactly to the contours of a political ideology has lost its independence. Churches become clubs of the politically like-minded. Political dialogue suffers, since opponents are viewed as heretics. And when religion becomes too closely identified with a detailed political platform, both are quickly outdated.

  58. Bill Fleming 2011.10.11

    I wouldn't presume to know if you are a sheep or a goat, if that's what you mean, Sibby.

  59. Joseph G Thompson 2011.10.11

    One last Post from me

    Steve, I said it required a sincere request for forgiveness which requires repentence. For what its worth, I still believe in doing Pentence and have a lot of Pentence to do for the time I spent discussing the applicability of religion to politics with you. God probably won't allow me to publish here for several more weeks.

    For Larry, can't think of a better cult to belong than one which honors the Chief, your father. Bless ya

  60. Steve Hickey 2011.10.11

    Jana - where's your anger coming from toward me? Not sure we've even met. Let me guess- you disagree with me on abortion. So be it. The solution to a crisis pregnancy is to help a woman end the crisis, not end the pregnancy. It all fits right in with my point here about society's concern for the most vulnerable in our midst (of course including the unborn) and those who have the odds stacked against them. Who would Jesus dismember? Since you obviously had fun googling yourself into an expert on my last provided link, here something else for you to check out... http://180movie.com/

  61. larry kurtz 2011.10.11

    third trimester: it's not just a good idea; it's the law. a fetus has no civil rights until then. in southern dakota, protect the unborn but after that: leave!

  62. Eve Fisher 2011.10.11

    Steve, you are the only person I've ever met who believes the goats are unbelievers. Jesus' words were pretty plain: it's whoever says "Lord, Lord" and doesn't do what he says: "For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." Pretty plain. Pretty clear.
    I still want to know why you persist in focusing on the sluggards, and where the fear of them comes from. Who in Bethel or Golden Living should be kicked out, in your view, and why? Don't just go on in generalities - it's easy to talk about welfare queens when you've never met one, and are quoting from the Internet - tell us specifically what the problem is and where. Then maybe solutions can be reached.

  63. LK 2011.10.11

    Rev. Hickey,

    I hope this doesn't come across as angry. I applaud your efforts to limit usury, but I am confused by your stand on this issue.

    If Habakkuk 2:9, “Woe to him who builds his house by unjust gain, setting his nest on high to escape the clutches of ruin!" doesn't apply to the Wall Street bankers who caused the damage that has lead to the ongoing economic woes, I don't know to whom it would apply.

    I have to admit that compared to the rest of the world, the vast majority of US citizens are in the upper 1 or 2 percent. That being said, Jermiah 22:3 also seems to apply to the wage and wealth gap that is wrecking havoc on the nation: "Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness, his upper rooms by injustice, making his countrymen work for nothing, not paying them for their labor."

    I'm not sure if your denomination considers James an epistle of straw, but James 6-7 asks some pertinent questions "Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?" In chapter 5 James writes, "Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter." Apparently, the apostle was a class warrior."

    I don't want anything that isn't mine. I try to do an honest days work; most days I get an honest days pay. I fail to understand how religous leaders can side with the Wall Street bankers and not with those they exploit.

    I hope this is not seen as a personal attack, but I find it hard to square "the love of money is the root of all evil" with support for a Wall Street system based on he who dies with the most toys wins.

  64. Steve Hickey 2011.10.11

    LK - my legislative attempts so far to address the immorality of SD's usury laws is guided in part by Isaiah 58 where it talks about breaking every unjust contract on behalf of the poor and exploited. You've sited a number of other important and related verses. I'd say loud and clear that God has an issue with Wall Street. This present economic shaking is well deserved in my view however it's not just the greedy bankers who'd do well to repent, our entire culture is sinfully consumptive. The bankers aren't the main problem. They are simply spending Congressional bailouts and cashing checks signed by the resident of 1600 Penn Ave.. The Bible isn't silent about any of this; usury, greed, envy, coveting, stealing (in all it's forms), entitlement, sloth, devalued currency, debtor nations, etc.. Even so, though God has issue with all of the above, God has NO issue with wealth. As Dave Ramsey says, wealth isn't evil, it only brings out what is already in you. In other words, you can do a lot of good with money and you can do great evil with it. Poverty is always equated in the Bible with curse and wealth with blessing - even in the New Testament and I'm not preaching a prosperity message except that I believe God wants us to prosper so we can be a blessing. Most people can't even be Good Samaritans and help a guy out for a week without charging the expense on a credit card. Poor people can't help poor people and we are called to help people so God certainly doesn't want us poor. Yet people today are broke and the bank isn't to blame, neither is political party A or B. I teach people around here that these are days to have a Great Depression do-whatever-it-takes mentality to feed your family and prosper in hard times. Our grandparents did it and so can we. But what I see EVERY DAY in my job are people who have no work ethic and are content to live off the govt dime. It's unsustainable and protesting Wall Street won't fix the fundamental problem in our lazy entitlement culture. America has historically been generous. But we've all been greedy, from the top down. I see the protests as the pot calling the kettle black. Filthy rich fat Michael Moore decrying people who have millions is the epitome of hypocrisy. He should give it all away and eat crumbs as a gesture of solidarity. But this isn't about the poor for him, it's about a governmental overthrow and a shift to Marxism. So, I do agree there is much to protest at Wall Street but what I'm seeing are lazy people, sleeping on the street in filth, bitching about people who make money off what they demand - $300 jeans, iphones, free childcare and groceries. I have much protest in me (especially toward the Federal Reserve) but my protest energies are being channeled into making money so I'm free to be a blessing. And I give a lot away. Maybe somewhere in all that I answered your concern or question. Gotta run, not time to fix typos. Peace.

  65. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "I wouldn’t presume to know if you are a sheep or a goat, if that’s what you mean, Sibby."

    Its seems the judgement from the left is that a rich person is a automatically a goat and a poor person is sheep. Seems to me that is from a god called Marx.

  66. Steve Sibson 2011.10.11

    "Jana – where’s your anger coming from toward me? Not sure we’ve even met. "

    Seems to me Jana is on to something. Anger has nothing to do with it. Nice research and analysis Jana!!

  67. Shane Gerlach 2011.10.11

    I see Pastor Steve stopped in to cast judgement from his seat on high managing to both say it was okay to have wealth and then begrudge people for the cost of their things.

    He insulted those he has not met, has not broken bread with or know in any way.

    He expounds the teachings of a man whose lifestyle and politics he agrees with(Dave Ramsey) who has screamed "doctrinal nitpicking" when he is confronted with Matt 19:24 and called to give away his wealth and live a life of poverty but in the same response calls for a man whose lifestyle and politics he doesn't agree with (Michael Moore) to give up his wealth and lead a life of poverty as penance!

    Oh Steve Hypocrite...you make it so easy.

    What do your parishioners think of your quick to judge people attitude? Is this what you learned in seminary? Is this what the scripture has taught you?

    How many of those people living on "the Govt. Dime" have you counseled? How many of them have you helped to find work? How many of them have you invited into your home to feed and mentor and listen to?

    Do you have time from your throne of judgement to do any of these things?

    I'm the one who is pissed at you Hickey. You betray your vows to God every time you open your mouth. You are a hypocrite, exploiter and liar. You are exactly who Jesus chased from the temple of His Father!

    "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
    And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

    How dare you corrupt your position and sit in judgment Pastor.

  68. Steve Hickey 2011.10.11

    Shane - and from where does your vitriol come? You are full of hate and intolerance in your ill-informed judgments. My favorite part of what you wrote is this: "How many of those people living on “the Govt. Dime” have you counseled? How many of them have you helped to find work? How many of them have you invited into your home to feed and mentor and listen to?"

    25 years. There is usually someone living in the extra rooms in our home. Every week I help unemployed and underemployed people - in fact tonight I teach a class called the Monk and the Merchant teaching people how to start business and get financially ahead - life coaching and counseling is what I do. Every year I raised or personally give away thousands to people who can't pay their bills. Just today I gave $300. Last year it was $26,000. My favorite thing to do is give away free daycare. 52 people are on the payroll. And I haven't mentioned those I'm helping on the rez, or overseas. Surely you are doing more. If not, you are the hypocrite, sir.

  69. Jana 2011.10.11

    No anger from me Pastor. We've met at a gathering, but I'm fairly easy to forget and I've seen how most politicians who meet people in a crowd tend to look through those they are greeting and can't say I blame them.

    Sorry I missed your answer from earlier in the year. Just wondering if you disclosed that it was the American Enterprise Institute that crafted your response and provides your theological guidance on this issue?

    As to your charge of me disagreeing with you on abortion. I think we agree that both of us would rather there weren't anymore abortions, like most people. I do not begrudge you for your zealous efforts to outlaw abortion and overturn existing law.

    The Christian wing of the American Enterprise Institute used parables in their ad. Here's another one. Remember the parable of the ungrateful servant? You know the servant (big bank) who was bailed out by the master. Then the big bank saw someone (poor consumer) who owed him a small amount and had him beaten and jailed. I like the ending in the Bible better than the one that is being played out in today's economy.

    Here's a movie for you as well.

    http://www.hungryinamerica.net/

    [CAH: Jana, keep those links coming!]

  70. caheidelberger Post author | 2011.10.11

    Mr. Sibson: capitalists relying on welfare state to sustain consumers... interesting. You do seem to be moving toward a critique of consumerism and mass production.

    But that gets me thinking... maybe the Wall Street protests are acknowledging a deeper problem in class warfare, an issue my friend Tony Amert may have raised in a previous conversation. Maybe a growing problem is not that the "capitalists" (quote marks for you, Sibby) are waging war on the workers but that the capitalists don't need the workers any more, at least not as workers. We squeeze more productivity out of fewer people and more machines. Maybe the free enterprise that Rep. Hickey looks to for our earthly salvation doesn't create jobs; maybe it naturally moves toward eliminating jobs as just so much inefficiency. Maybe the anger we hear from the Wall Street occupiers and the Tea Party is really a flavor of the same fear that Tom Joad and Jim Casy felt when they saw too many men and not enough work. Maybe we all sense that our skills and sweat are becoming obsolete, that even the least sluggardly among us risk losing what we have. Maybe that's part of what motivates the criticism that the protestors just want things they haven't earned. Maybe deep down, the problem isn't covetousness; it's the fear that we won't even get to keep what we have by our own labors.

    Is that what the occupation is about? Is that what the criticism of the occupation is about?

  71. Jana 2011.10.11

    But back to the class war.

    It was interesting to listen to the debate this evening and hear more of this 9-9-9 plan from Herman Cain. While the devil is in the details that Cain worked out with a Wells Fargo branch banker economists have weighed in on the impact on the middle class and poor.

    From USA Today: "Not so fast, say tax experts from all parts of the political spectrum. While Cain's plan has an appealing simplicity to Americans frustrated with the nation's labyrinthine tax system, it would dump a much heavier tax burden on low-income citizens."

    "On the top end, 9% is a lot better deal than what people at the top end are paying," he said, adding that the Urban Institute estimates that those who make more than $1 million pay 18% in personal income taxes.

    "Going to 9% is going to save them half; that's a nice savings," Williams said. "That's the income tax side: The rich will pay less; the poor will pay more."

    But wait there is someone from the same article who likes the plan even with it's tax increase on the poor and middle class:

    "Kevin Hassett, director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, said the plan would simplify the tax code and not sacrifice current tax revenue. "We'd have pretty high confidence that it could increase growth a lot," he said.

    "This is a far more sophisticated plan than one might have expected, given that he is not a person that has been inside politics his whole life," Hassett said. "The Cain plan is really solid. The only criticism one could make is it's too bold or something like that."

    Now where else have I heard the American Enterprise Institute in this discussion?

  72. Steve Hickey 2011.10.11

    Cory, I know you wish more elected officials would join the conversation on the blogs. You know I'm no stranger to the fray. Uncivilized personal attacks like the one from Gerlach will keep people like me away. I'm referring to this rant from one who has no idea who I am, what I do or what I actually teach:
    "I’m the one who is pissed at you Hickey. You betray your vows to God every time you open your mouth. You are a hypocrite, exploiter and liar. You are exactly who Jesus chased from the temple of His Father!"

    Gerlach should run for office himself if he can do better. My point is tolerating this is why the 104 others in the legislature stay off the blogs. We don't need it. Every legislator I know hits delete when the personal attack emails come.

  73. caheidelberger Post author | 2011.10.11

    Whew -- I know, Rep. Hickey. The hard words do make it hard to get legislators to join the conversation. (The hard words don't negate your wrongness on some issues; they just make it harder to stay focused on your frequent wrongness.) I do appreciate your willingness to stick with it.

    At the same time, Rep. Hickey, you give as good as you get. And I suspect you're not the only legislator who expresses strong opinions with strong words. The majority of your colleagues just tend to do it behind closed doors, off the record. I would suggest your colleagues follow your lead, take their lumps, and engage the public as you do. We can learn. We can turn up our filters and focus on the policy issues.

  74. Shane Gerlach 2011.10.11

    Bravo to you Pastor for doing what you were called by God to do. What is so hard for me to stomach...what fills me with vitriol is every single time I see you on the Blogs you are condescending, insulting, combative and come across as an elitist snob.
    Blessings to you for the work that you do but why the need to tell me the amounts? Pride before the fall?
    If you counsel and work with people daily then why do you come here and speak ill of them and insult them?
    How can you be a true disciple of God when you speak with such hatred towards people and show such utter and bitter disdain?
    That is why i refer to you as a liar because your words and in them the view you give of your heart do not show that of a man of the cloth. I call you a hypocrite for the example I gave before and others I have seen on this blog. You support and tolerate actions from people so long as their views tie in to your own, but as soon as they don't you speak poorly of them and lash out at them.
    I grew up with a hypocrite Pastor who would spread stories about parishioners and talk down to us. I watched him almost destroy our church.
    My understanding of God is very simple: I believe in the God of tolerance and patience and forgiveness and to be honest Pastor I see little of that in you.
    I see self serving and congratulatory pride, I see misdirected anger and I see hypocrisy in your judgements.
    That is my opinion. Don't want public criticism then don't run for public office. It's really that simple sir.
    You don't have to like me...I don't care. I am speaking from my heart when I say I don't think you are doing justice to your calling and God with your service in the Legislature.
    That is my opinion. I know you don't care...but it is what it is.
    Don't want to be called a hypocrite, liar or exploiter than simply don't act like one.

  75. Steve Sibson 2011.10.12

    "Maybe the anger we hear from the Wall Street occupiers and the Tea Party is really a flavor of the same fear..."

    Cory, that tells me you are starting to see my point. This has been a very interesting conversation. This morning, by Bible study brings forward Scripture that I thik applies. First from 1 Thessalonians 5;

    12 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14 And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.
    16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

    19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

    23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

    25 Brothers and sisters, pray for us. 26 Greet all God’s people with a holy kiss. 27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.

    28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

    And then from Psalm 82;

    1 God presides in the great assembly;
    he renders judgment among the “gods”:

    2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
    and show partiality to the wicked?[b]
    3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
    uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
    4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
    deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

  76. caheidelberger Post author | 2011.10.12

    Sibby, maybe we're just acknowledging that our pints have some important similarities.

  77. larry kurtz 2011.10.12

    You're not here as a legislator red/reb/rep/rev hickey. You're here as a short, sharp, shocking white evangelist preaching the gospel of gimme.

  78. larry kurtz 2011.10.12

    Sibby: can wickedness ever be good?

  79. LK 2011.10.12

    Rev. Hickey,

    Thanks for your response.

    I will offer a few comments.

    First, it strikes me as curious that one's political perspective can produce such dramatically differing views of the same events. Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movement mirror my view of the people who call right wing talk radio shows. I've only listened when I'm on the AM only roads of South Dakota, but it seems to me that there are many callers who vent regularly. I've never had a job that afforded me the luxury of calling a talk radio program. My strongest impressions from Tea Party protests comes from those yelling vitriol at John Lewis, a civil rights hero and those carrying signs with the oxymoronic message "Keep Government Out Of My Medicare."

    2. As for parables, I always thought the parable Good Samaritan was meant to illustrate that everyone is my neighbor, even those my culture finds terrible, lazy, and perhaps ungodly. If these protestors are indeed the prodigal sons and daughters that you claim they are, I wonder how many of us are the angry older sibling who bemoans that fact that we don't get the party that they do. I also wonder if the reason that more people are afraid is that Wall Street bankers are akin to the rich man with a large flock who took the single sheep loved by the poor man so he wouldn't have to sacrifice anything from his flock. Dueling parables is one of my favorite pastimes.

    3. As far as the idea that wealth is always presented favorably in the Bible, I don't have the time to research that claim fully, but I seem to recall that the rich church of Laodicea did not fair so well.

    4. I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I think your response reflected the prosperity doctrine as well as most things I've read.

    I too probably have more typos than time.

  80. Shane Gerlach 2011.10.12

    Pastor Hickey and I are speaking privately and without the fire that this discussion brought. I would like to publicly apologize to Pastor Hickey for the veracity of my attack and for the use of purposely hurtful words.

    I do not agree with what I see as a duplicity of attacks by the Pastor and truly believe that he allows for behaviors in those who he finds palatable vs those he does not (Michael Moore, Angie Buhl, the Writers at Dakota Women, etc). I do think that ministering to the needy and then bemoaning the needy is...well let's call it "near" hypocritical.

    I don't think that following a for profit preacher like Dave Ramsey and then smashing entitlement babies in the very same post shows good judgement. I don't think judging people period is how a clergy (or anyone) should act without getting to know the person through an open dialogue. I made that mistake by taking words that I have seen Pastor Hickey use against my friend Angie Buhl (don't always agree with her but I never doubt her honest passion and compassion) and other what I viewed as personal attacks. I am not a regular reader of his Blog and have missed his public apologies for the anger in his attacks on those who on the other side of his views on Abortion (I don't agree with the anger and then allowed myself to use it here)

    Pastor Hickey and I are not going to see eye to eye on much politically but for me to question his calling to God and his service was wrong and a prime example of everything I was accusing him of.

    It is not for me to judge his actions. I will hold my tongue on being Called by God to serve Him and Serving the SD Legislature/Republican party/Special Interests. I don't think there can ever truly be a balance between the two.

    Shane

  81. Eve Fisher 2011.10.12

    Congratulations on the increasing civility of this discussion. Cory, you are right on the money - what people are afraid of is that unbridled capitalism is taking away jobs, permanently, through outsourcing, robotics, and computers. There are whole categories of jobs that once provided a living wage which no longer exist: printers, clerical workers, stenographers, low-level accountants, gas station attendants, farm laborers, etc. And nothing has replaced them. There is also a problem that no one wants to address with regard to employment, and that is not everyone can be retrained to a higher-level tech job. What room is there in this technologically-based society for people who are literally incapable of learning more than the basic reading, writing, and arithmetic? The people who were the grunt laborers in the days before machinery, robots, etc. took over most laborer jobs. Where do they go to earn a living wage? (And $7 an hour will only keep them in poverty, even with both parents working, even though the shopping gets done at the dollar store or Wal-mart - keep China thriving.) They're not lazy - it's just that the jobs have run out. There was a day when Archie Bunker could actually earn a living wage. Today, he'd be on food stamps, wondering (like so many others) "What happened?"

  82. Roger Elgersma 2011.10.12

    Wealth may be good and all that. It does have to be aquired honestly, without underpaying those who work for you and paying the tax that even Jesus paid. When Christians tell me that they are being blessed by God when they send jobs overseas to desparately cheap labor I nearly puke.
    For a little historical comparison. John Dillinger was thought of almost as a public hero when he robbed the rich banks after they forclosed on many hard working people. If you look at the percentage of wages compaired to executive pay now and in the thirties you would have reason to fear class warfare because it is the same problem now as then with the rich taking it all and the poor getting little or nothing. The older people in those Wall Street demonstrations think if we had a few new laws that it could straighten out. Our generation saw civil rights laws and other laws make a difference so we see that as the solution. The youth now days do not see it that way. They see the whole greed problem as to big to specifically define so they are in unity against the problem but their generation has experienced that you can not fix the problems so do not vote or try in any other way but they are finally stepping out and saying that there is a problem. That is growth on their part. They are not sure they will win but are at least have seen that economic doom will come if there is not a change so they are starting to protest. This young generation really has not protested before. Most skip the war protests even though they are totally in agreement with us. They were taught to compromise and not complain since it does absolutely no good anyways. Now that I have been through divorce court I understand why they realize there is total hopelessness when the government is wrong.

  83. Steve Hickey 2011.10.12

    This relates to my original point about how I foresee these protests getting out of control because these aren't mannered people - today from the frontlines of the Occupy movement...
    1. To hell with Ghandi's non-violence, bloodshed will be necessary. http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/occupy-l-a-speaker-violence-will-be-necessary-to-achieve-our-goals/
    2. Freaky cultlike group chant about how they should be able to have sex with animals.
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/yuck-occupy-wall-street-zombies-lastest-chant-you-can-have-sex-with-animals-video/

  84. Steve Sibson 2011.10.12

    "To hell with Ghandi’s non-violence, bloodshed will be necessary."
    So they are modeling the French revolution. So this is a continuation of the Templar World-wide Republic versus the British Sion Captialists. They both want a one-world authority, they are just arguing over who and how it will be controlled.

  85. Bill Fleming 2011.10.12

    Rev. Hickey, you're just taking that "animals" line out of context, perhaps just out of ignorance. Let me educate you. First, understand what's going on in the gathering.

    The speakers aren't allowed to use bull-horns or microphones so they're using the group dynamic to amplify what the speakers are saying.

    It's not "cultlike" it's culture and cooperation.

    The lead in to the "animals" line is:
    "On the other hand, in the media, everything seems to be possible..."

    i.e. It's a joke (notice the people laughing).

    As far as violence goes, there are certainly those who think it is necessary to bring real change.

    That's a problem on both left and right wings.

    We should all work together to be sure it doesn't happen.

    There are those of us on both sides who oppose violence.

    We need to be the loudest and most convincing voices.

    I hope you'll join your voice with mine in this regard.

    Namaste.

  86. Bill Fleming 2011.10.12

    ...BTW, Steve and Steve, Gandhi's name is spelled as I have it here.
    The "h" comes after the "d" not the "G." Thanks.

    And it's not necessarily "Gandhi's" non-violence. It's also "Jesus'."

  87. caheidelberger Post author | 2011.10.13

    Bill! Fine essay! Fine connection to the classics!

  88. Steve Sibson 2011.10.13

    Bill & Cory,

    While I agree with the definition of the problem, the protest is being directed by those who want a one-world government. They have more in common with the capitalists than you would think. It is the good old Hegelian dialectic, thesis, anti-thesis, and then the solution...the Third Way. The both oppressive regimes get what they want.

    The French Revolution is a bad model. Bill you did not address that point.

  89. larry kurtz 2011.10.13

    the united states of earth: it has a nice ring to it, stevie!

  90. Bill Fleming 2011.10.13

    Señor Kurtz, mi español es bastante remedio, pero he sido capaz de salir adelante, gracias a la generosidad y el carácter dulce de la gente hispana que he tenido el placer de conocer y saludar. Puedo leer mucho mejor que puedo hablar, vato loco.

  91. larry kurtz 2011.10.13

    vato loco fleming: help me draft an invitation for mexico to dissolve its constitution and petition for statehood?

  92. Bill Fleming 2011.10.13

    Why would they want to do that, esé?

  93. Bill Fleming 2011.10.13

    Good article, Larry. Interesting guy. I don't see him wanting to dissolve his constitution though, do you? Seems like that would invite more chaos, not less. Who do you propose the Mexican government should petition to exactly?

  94. Bill Fleming 2011.10.13

    p.s. Larry, we haven't exactly handled the drug problem here in the US either, you know?

  95. Eve Fisher 2011.10.13

    Congratulations to Pastor Hickey for choosing the most radical anti-liberal website he could find to present us the "news" from Occupy Wall Street. I don't believe a word of it. I've seen too many Breitbarted videos: and I don't remember Pastor Hickey protesting when people started yelling "let him die!" about an uninsured man at one of the Republican debates. Those were not mannered people in that audience, and that was on nation-wide television.

  96. larry kurtz 2011.10.13

    Imagine a state with an economy that rivals California's, is as large as Alaska with a progressive, diverse population bringing 30+ electoral votes. How could that not be an incentive for the people of Mexico to vote to dissolve their constitution in favor of Statehood?

    The US could virtually empty northern cities rather than heat them in the winter to facilitate the rewilding of the Plains and Rockies.

    Migration should be celebrated, not outlawed.

  97. Jana 2011.10.13

    It's good to see that Pastor Hickey is concerned about violent rhetoric in political discourse and that he has such academic tastes in news sources.

    Personally, I find the violent rhetoric repulsive and dangerous in a society filled with too many unstable minds.

    I'm trying to remember his outrage against some of the violent rhetoric and threats reported during the health care debate that was reported in the traditional media outlets. You remember the death threats to people like Bart Stupak, signs that said "If Brown can't stop health care then Browning can." "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." "2nd amendment remedies" and yes "bringing guns to a knife fight."

    My concern Pastor Hickey is that you seem to be sewing the seeds of discord and fear with some of your rhetoric and references.

    Regardless of the partisan selective outrage to violent rhetoric, this might be a good article for everyone to read as we move forward.

    http://www.miller-mccune.com/politics/linking-uncivil-rhetoric-with-violent-acts-26828/

  98. Bill Fleming 2011.10.13

    Good link, Jana, thank you.

  99. Steve Sibson 2011.10.13

    Just found out what is "really" going on with the Occupy Movement. First we need to understand that the poor cannot finacne their Marxist Revolution. So who is financing the Occupy Movement:

    "Jumping on the anti-Wall Street media bandwagon, Josh Boak of Politico says Democratic Rep. Peter DeFazio's measure to tax Wall Street has "newfound momentum." The Soros-funded Think Progress blog quickly jumped [1] on the report, saying the plan is being seriously considered on the Hill. There is only one problem: DeFazio hasn't introduced any such bill in the current Congress.

    Despite the hype from Politico, the issue is a real one. And the threat is not only a "Wall Street financial transactions tax" that could affect ordinary investors but a global tax to finance various international agencies and causes."

    http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=7643

    So we have George Soros behind this thing, who is connected with the British Rothschild:

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretsoc_20century/secretsoc_20century10.htm

    So this is a pro-capitalist movement in the name of anti-capitalism. Amazing how deception is used to dupe the advocates for the poor to do what the rich want. If you don't believe me then explain this:

    "It's just a "tiny tax," say proponents, that has the support of billionaire Bill Gates and can generate $100 billion a year."

  100. Eve Fisher 2011.10.13

    Steve, I see you are following in Pastor Hickey's footsteps, passing off extreme conspiracy theory websites as valid news. The Soros/Rothschild connection is highly debatable, and usually the stalking horse of anti-Semitism. Just because Glenn Beck said it doesn't make it true.
    By the way, how do you feel about the Koch Brothers financing of the Tea Party?

  101. Steve Sibson 2011.10.13

    Eve,

    You need to give me more solid evidence in regard to the Soros/Rothschild connection. It is sad the the truth has to be held in the darkness of secret societies. If there is no conspiracy, then there is no need to be secret.

    I am not a member of the Tea Party. I am more concerned about the Koch brothers financing than you seem to be of Soros. Once we understand we are intended to be puppets of competing wealthy power-mongers, the sooner we can stand together and defend the oppressed.

  102. Bill Fleming 2011.10.13

    Steve, I think you just might be a rogue puppet looking for the right hand. I hope you find it someday, brother. You sure have tried a lot of them on.

  103. Eve Fisher 2011.10.13

    True, Bill. Steve, your link to the supposedly true secret societies, also claims that L. Ron Hubbard and the church of Scientology are oppressed by Jews, led by a whiskey producer with wide ties.
    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretsoc_20century/secretsoc_20century10.htm#CHAPTER 57
    This is a completely bogus website that is anti-Semitic to the core. Why do you believe a word they say? What is it that attracts you to it? Why do you swallow it whole? What does this tell us about you?

  104. Steve Sibson 2011.10.13

    Eve,

    Thanks for showing how you combat conspiracy theroies whit anti-Semetic conspiracy theories. I made no connection from Soros to Scientology. You just used a strawman argument.

    What does this tell us about you?

  105. Eve Fisher 2011.10.13

    Don't try to evade it, Steve - you're using a website that is all about anti-Semitism (and, by the way, alien invasions from outer space) to justify your conspiracy theories. Trying to blame the researcher/watchdog (me) will not take away your responsibility for the tools/websites you use.

  106. Steve Sibson 2011.10.13

    Bill,

    Why are you not going after Eve for being "judgemental"? Amazing how close-minded, intolerant, and hateful you on the left are. Not to mention hypocritical.

  107. Steve Sibson 2011.10.14

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=355477

    So here is more on the Soros think to the protest:

    "A George Soros-funded economist taught a course to the Occupy Wall Street protesters purportedly to help the activists better understand what caused the global financial crisis.

    Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz also recently addressed the so-called social protests rocking Spain.

    Besides accepting funding from the controversial billionaire, Stiglitz has engaged in numerous projects with Soros and sits on the boards of Soros organizations, including one openly seeking to remake the world's economy.

    Stiglitz is a leading proponent of more government regulation of the economy.

    ...

    Stiglitz was a member of the Bill Clinton administration, serving both in Clinton's cabinet and as chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers.

    Stiglitz's most important contribution during his time in the Clinton administration was helping to define a new economic philosophy called a "third way," which called for business and government to join hands as "partners," while recognizing that government intervention could not always correct the limitations of markets.

    "Third Way" is an ideology first promoted as an alternative to free markets by Mikhail Gorbachev after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The "Third Way" of governing would be neither capitalist nor communist, but something in between.

    In his 1998 State of the Union Address, President Clinton outlined the "Third Way": "We have moved past the sterile debate between those who say government is the enemy and those who say government is the answer. My fellow Americans, we have found a Third Way."

    The "Third Way" calls for business and government to join hands as "partners."

    Discover the Networks criticized the theory: "In short, Big Business would own the economy (as under capitalism), while Big Government would run it (as under socialism). Corporations would be persuaded to comply with government directives through subsidies, tax breaks, customized legislation, and other special privileges."

    Soros himself has been a vocal proponent of the "Third Way" economic policy. "

    So there you go, Big Government working hand in hand with Big Business. And both parties are pushing the agenda form two directions, and then pulling the Hegelian "Third Way".

  108. Bill Fleming 2011.10.14

    So Steve which "Way" do you advocate? 1st Way? 2nd Way? ...or maybe a new improved Sibby's 4th Way? What?

    (Third Way began in Australia in the 1980's I think. Not sure you have described it properly, but that's not surprising.)

    It seems like a moderate policy.
    That could be why you don't like it.
    Not extremist enough for you, perhaps.

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