...How bad is it?
Kristi Noem's vote is so bad that the Wall Street Journal calls it a fiasco for Republicans.
Kristi Noem's vote is so bad that Senator John McCain says it hurts the Republican Party.
Kristi Noem's vote is so bad it made both her hair and her dunce cap go flat.
Kristi Noem's vote is so bad that Dakota War College couldn't muster any commentary of its own to spin it as a plus for the GOP. (I suspect "Bill Clay" is starting to hedge his bets and consider backing a Noem primary challenger!)
Kristi Noem's vote is so bad that Speaker Boehner now has to cut short formal sessions, deny members the right to make motions and speak, and shut off the C-Span cameras to prevent further embarrassment.
Kristi Noem's vote is so bad that Tennessee Senator Bob Corker, who was one of only ten Senators to vote against the payroll tax cut extension on Saturday, now says that Republcians are getting killed so badly in public opinion that they should just pass the extension and move on.
So Cory, what do you want, a payroll tax cut for two months or one for the entire year?
Entire year. But that won't pass. I thus accept the compromise that Democrats offered.
You forgot to mention that even John Thune voted against Kristi on this one, Cory. http://www.sddp.org/2011/12/noem-should-follow-thunes-lead-on-payroll-tax-cut/
Also, Cory, Sibby's is a false dichotomy.
The real choice is "do you want a payroll tax cut or not?"
To put Sibby and Kristi's arguments in perspective, just change the context.
Say Sibby's family and friends are starving and someone offers to feed them all for the next two months, then reassess their long range prospects to see if more aid is needed.
Sibby says no deal. If you won't feed us for a year, forget about it.
Such are the muddled minds of our "leader" in Congress and the manic anti-Mason from Mitchell.
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00cCTQPBvnbHoD/Pine-Cuckoo-Clock-FHC-811B-.jpg
Bill, your family needs food for the entire year, but is willing to give that up for only two months. Clearly the Democrats are not using principle. This is simply gamesmanship by both parties. Why continue to grow such a deceptive and corrupt government?
"You forgot to mention that even John Thune voted against Kristi on this one, Cory."
Obviously Senator Thune is now part of the Establishment. Should have known that when Bush hand picked him. Bill you need to understand that the two parties are faking a fight inorder to implement a Hegelian dialectic between communism and capitalism. I call it fascism. Gingrich called it the contract with America.
Above: Sib stupidity exhibit B. That logic will ensure that your family and friends starve to death, brother. What part of "yes" don't you understand?
Hahahahahah!
You're the one who became famous for the internet skullduggery that fed the anti-Daschle slime machine that got Thune elected, Sibby.
Now you're throwing your main main John under the bus?
That's just too rich.
Bwahahahahah!
"...main man John..." sorry. Laughing too hard. Couldn't see screen.
The payroll tax cut may have some negative long term effects to Social Security by reducing funds available and by limiting the claim that it's an "insurance" that everyone pays for.
That being said, I think the republic will be better served with a one year extension of the cut and total tax reform. Reform, of course, will never happen during an election year.
I, therefore, offer the modest, if unorginial proposal. Three Democratic and three Republican leaders along with two economists, one chosen by each party, take laptops filled with economic data to a secluded location that has no internet or cell phone coverage. They hammer out a plan, bring it to the floor of each chamber with a straight up/down vote like the ones for base closings. If it fails, repeat the process.
That sort of secrecy worked for the constitution, although I admit that we have no Franklins, Madisons, or Washingtons in the current political leadership. The Thunes, Boehners, Pelosis, and Reids don't quite measure up.
Like Cory, I'm for open government, but lately open government seems to mean open season on reasonable politics.
While we keep waiting for Sibby to have his epiphany, he appears instead to have just had an e*poof*any.
Any street cred he once had in the SDGOP just went up in a puff of smoke with that last Thune comment.
So long Sibby, it's been good to know ya.
Have fun stickin' up for Stace and the rest of the far-right fools on the funny farm.
[CAH: "epoofany"—word of the day!]
LK, the SS trust fund is still in surplus mode. The fed owes it approx. $2.5 trillion. There is no immediate concern as long as everyone benefits equally, and everyone's account is kept current.
But to your point, I think it argues for a shorter SS tax holiday as opposed a longer one, and yes, we need significant tax reform. But don't forget, there is one already on the books. The Bush Tax cuts are due to expire at the end of next year. That debate will make this little dustup look like a week at summer camp.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-22/payroll-tax-tiff-times-25-awaits-congress-in-utter-dysfunction-.html
"...the SS trust fund is still in surplus mode. The fed owes it approx. $2.5 trillion. " This is rich!! Just a small reminder. The fed is broke. Unless you want to squeeze the turnip, without a garden to grow more, the turnip won't squeeze much longer. And simply allowing tax cuts to expire etc will not fix the problem either.
This whole idea of payroll tax cuts is a bad idea, whether for a year or two months. The payroll tax was designed to fund SS, which every working person pays into and should pay into. This is simply a political ploy played out by both parties right now with the hopes that the people will buy the idea as sounding great. Sad thing is nonthinking people will buy it because it does sound good. Stuffing oneself at a buffet meal three times a day with delicious food sounds good too, but the ramifications are a little less so. Same thing here.
"The fed owes it approx. $2.5 trillion."
At the risk of being Sibby-esque, a term unique to the South Dakota blogosphere, I fear that IOU may not get paid. (Is it an IOU or a UOMe?)
As far as the Bush cuts, you're right. That political brinksmanship may rival the diplomatic misadventures that gave us the Cuban Missle Crisis.
Oh well, according the people who misread the Mayan calendar, we have less than a year to worry about it anyway.
"Have fun stickin’ up for Stace and the rest of the far-right fools on the funny farm."
Yes Bill, you keep sticking up for the GOP Establishment.
Oops. I put my comment in the wrong thread. Sorry.
https://madvilletimes.com/2011/12/varilek-noem-lets-tea-party-politics-endanger-economy/#comment-39950
"That logic will ensure that your family and friends starve to death, brother."
No Bill, your family will begin starving in 2 months. My family will not waste our time waiting for the corrupt crooks in DC to take care of us. We can take care of ourselves.
Troy, not surprised you did not offer the limited government solution. Eliminate the tax and return to the people what they have already paid in. Time to admit that FDR was wrong. Can RINOs even stomach that?
It will get paid as long as the voters insist it gets paid. Social Security is by far the most popular program in government. That's not going to change any time soon.
p.s. LK it is both, IOU and UOMe. That's why it works. A Golden Rule kind of thing.
http://www.pollingreport.com/social.htm
First of all this is paid for, so the SS fund is not getting robbed by voting for this.
Second of fall, this is not a choice of 2 months or 12 months, everything else is the same. They were never in favor of a 12 month deal, they agreed with the deal before reneging on it. And when they did that they came up with this talking point that said if we say we support a 12 month deal enough times maybe someone will actually believe us.
Okay, I'll bring this over here so we can discuss it.
Here's Troy's comment:
"Nobody is talking straight on this issue. It is not a “tax cut†as it is decreasing one’s contribution to their Social Security account. In other words, it is spending today what could be available in retirement.
In my mind there are two rational choices:
1) Extend it for a year if one believes the Keynesian views on consumer spending as a stimulus and it applies here. I happen to believe the problem is not a demand problem but fundamental because of all the impediments to growth in the economy via regulation.
2) Terminate it and put the money into people’s SS account for retirement and decrease the pressure on the Treasury to borrow more funds from China.
The two month extension is a joke from a policy point of view. But is good politics as Obama gets to pretend he is doing something for the folks by dribbling out this faux “tax cut†and he doesn’t have to change his projections on the deficit all in one fell swoop but a little bit at a time."
________________
I have to jump out for a while now. Good thread. Have fun hashing it out. ...and watch out for those wet Sibby unicorn road apples, They can be murder scraping them off your shoes. ;^)
"It will get paid as long as the voters insist it gets paid."
Bill, You forgot (?) about last summers activities in DC. Without more debt, Obama was going to cut it himself. You are one of trhe deceivers.
So Joe, you are saying the crooks in DC are actually lying crooks?
Sibby, I'm not advocating anything. Only trying to frame the discussion honestly on the micro level. Let's get that part straight and then it is possible to have your macro discussion.
Joe: It is "paid for" only in other spending cuts with regard to the overall deficit that were passed when the initial reduction was passed. If they didn't do the reduction (and kept the spending cuts), the deficit would be smaller.
The reduction of my payroll deduction is also a reduction in money going into my account.
And Joe, neither party wants to cut payroll taxes. They are only trying to buy votes for 2012.
"It is not a “tax cut†as it is decreasing one’s contribution to their Social Security account."
Troy, I want to stop paying in entirely and take out what I have paid in. Giving me a 2% bone to buy my vote is insulting.l
Okay. Back from my chores. Troy, if you're really going for full disclosure here maybe talk to us about the bogus coupling of this measure with all the other poison pills the TeaBaggers in the House are throwing in to squirrel the deal.
Also explain why Boehner won't just bring the bipartisan Senate bill (it got over 80% of the senate votes) to the floor for an up or down vote.
Whaddup widdat, buddy?
While some might think it is politics, I posted my thoughts on SDWC somewhere. I think it is actually negotiation and Boehner/House snookered everyone but especially Obama. When the Senate deal was passed, Obama should have either said nothing or got the House to commit before he said something.
"bogus coupling of this measure with all the other poison pills the TeaBaggers"
Bill, please provide details. Have no idea what you are talking about.
Here, Steve:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/house-passes-payroll-tax-bill_n_1147021.html
If you would read the news instead of all those fairy tale books, Stevie, you would know about these things. ;^)
Huffington Post is news? What people call news are the fairy tales.
From Bill's link:
"The plan would pay for the one-year, 2 percent payroll tax cut by means-testing Medicare so that recipients making $85,000 and above have to pay higher premiums -- effectively raising $31 billion. "
That is not Tea Party position Bill. That is something Marxist Democrats and RINOS would compromise on. Did I tell you...news today are the fairy tales.
That's the bill the Tea Party dominated House passed, Steve. Don't talk to us about it, talk to them. And yes, the Huffington Post is a news organization, complete with with journalists with real bona fides, unlike the majority of your conspiracy sources.
"That’s the bill the Tea Party dominated House passed, Steve. "
No Bill, the legislation is not Tea Party legislation. Stop with the deceptions and the conspiracies.
Tea Party responsible for racist Ron Paul newsletters:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/12/the-story-behind-ron-pauls-racist-newsletters/250338/
Steve, everyone in the country except you it seems knows that the Tea Party is running the US House.
Boehner, the majority leader isn't in charge of it. The Tea Party is. This is widely known, and an embarrassment to the GOP.
In fact, it is the very substance of Cory's post here. Take your ADHD meds and try to pay attention here Sibby. I know it's a lot to ask, but at least try, will ya?
I almost thought that Kristi did something right. Charging the normal amount for Social Security is the best way to keep social security solvent. We need not cut SS tax for the whole election year just to get elected. But when she really wants to extend this tax cut on the funding for the elderly for a whole year, I had to step back and realize she is still wrong.
The real problem is that this is a bipartisan plan to get reelected. This shows the true selfishness of the current Congress. They can suddenly act in a bipartisan way for their own reelection but not to pass a real whole year budget.
Bill, I just shows with the excerpt from your news source that the Tea Party is not in control of the House GOP. The CFR still has full contol of our government. Been that way for a long time.
Now when did you and the rest of the pro-Social Security Democratic activists all of sudden become in favor of reducing Social Security funding by cutting taxes! What happened, did the Tea Party take over the Democrat Party?
Oooo... the CFR. Now THERE's a JBS dog whistle, Sibby. Are you sure you're not a Bircher, dood?
"Huffington Post is news? What people call news are the fairy tales."
Thats called Fox News Steve
Yes Fox News too.
Bill. still throwing out conspiracy theories? At least I have proof on the CFR, it is Bill Clinton's mentor...Carroll Quigley. Did you know Gingrich, Clinton, and Daschle are all CFR members? One big happy fascist family.
Okay, Sibby, here's the CFR's website. Show us the fascist stuff if you would please. Be specific. http://www.cfr.org/about/
Bill, fascists don't walk up and say join us, we are fascists. I said read Quigley's Tragedy and Hope.
And guess what Bill? Your Huffington Post seems to like one of the books on my bookshelf called "Occult America:The Secret History Of How Mysticism Shaped Our Nation by Mitch Horowitz :
"Mr. Horowitz writes a well-deserved paean of praise about The Secret Teachings of the Ages author Manly P. Hall. His section on Fascism and the Occult is the clearest I've ever read."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-susan-corso/occult-america-the-secret_b_404351.html
I guess the debate of America being Christian or secular does not cover all the bases. I have added the idea of a Masonic Nation, and now we have the issue of the Occult. Of course I could argue that Masonic and Occult ends up being the same thing.
Cory, be happy, at least Atheists are not as dangerous as those operating within secret societies who are pushing ecumenicalism.
ANd it gets better. I found more at another link to the Huffiongton Post:
The pursuit led to my book, Occult America: White House Séances, Ouija Circles, Masons, and the Secret Mystic History of Our Nation (Bantam 2009/2010).
In tracking the history of supernatural and mystical religions in America, I explore how occult spirituality travelled from the late-ancient world through Renaissance Europe to find an unlikely but fateful home in the American colonies. By the late seventeenth century, the colonies had developed a reputation for religious tolerance, as European mystics were reeling from the after-effects of the Thirty Years' War and a general backlash against the liberal spirituality of the Elizabethan age.
On American soil, influences from Freemasonry, Renaissance occultism, and Christian mysticism formed the wave of alternative spirituality that eventually swept the nation and the world. Esoteric figures and ideas also placed a real and long-range impact on the society' s culture and politics.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitch-horowitz/the-occult-in-american-history_b_774765.html
"Troy, I want to stop paying in entirely and take out what I have paid in. Giving me a 2% bone to buy my vote is insulting.l"
What makes sense for the next year is to continue the 2% rate reduction which is actually 23% reduction in the payroll tax amount paid. And, make payroll tax include all income without limit. As it is now, those of us making less than $100,000 or so pay on every dime. Those getting $1,000,000 pay on only the first $100,000 (or whatever is the limit) and zero on the next $900,000. That makes it one of the most regressive taxes we have.
"That makes it one of the most regressive taxes we have."
A tax? I thought it was a retirement plan.
My question: How does Princess Kristi fit all that Stoopid under that mortarboard hat? Between the Stoopid and her alarming hair, the hat ought to be the size of a Macy's Thanksgiving Day balloon.
A tax? I thought it was a retirement plan.
It is both. It is a tax-funded retirement plan.
"SS trust fund is still in surplus mode. The fed owes it approx. $2.5 trillion."
The surplus is in US Treasury bonds and can be sold on the world market at any time.
There is no IOW or UOMe or any other Fox News jargon.