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Conservative Clan Caucus Rally in Pierre on Veto Day

You couldn't go with "Mugwumps"?

Rapid City right-wingnut Tonchi Weaver is calling for a really conservative rally in Pierre on March 19, when the Legislature returns to Pierre for one more day to consider any vetoes issued by Governor Daugaard. Weaver and her pals are planning an exclusive lunch at an unnamed Pierre restaurant with "invited core conservative legislators only" (that's in red and all caps in the original, but I just can't bring myself to shout as loudly as my radical neighbors). They'll strategize for the primary and general elections and discuss the future of the conservative movement in South Dakota. Sounds like profound fun!

Then Weaver says this:

Conservatives from from the entire state should caravan to Pierre for the meeting of our "Clan" [Tonchi Weaver, "SD Legislature Veto Day," The Right Side, 2012.03.08].

Yes. We're having a Clan rally in Pierre.

The "Conservative Clan Caucus" will be in the afternoon after the close of the Session.

Conservative Clan Caucus. I'm not sure what's funnier: how deaf Weaver is to the assonant similarity of her newly manufactured Potemkin crowd to the fellas in white hoods, or the mirroring of the actual abbreviation to one of the great icons of 1930s socialism.

And I can't tell whether my radical Rapid City neighbors are just deaf to the connotations of their language or if they are deliberately baiting me.


  1. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    Weaver: another obese person arguing against affordable health care?

  2. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.08

    Irrelevant and inaccurate ad hominem. Weaver's build, slim as it is, has no bearing on this discussion.

  3. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    Image flash: Clan of the Cave Conservatives. Tire and knuckle tracks all the way to the Capitol. (Sorry, couldn't help myself... hand me the dunce cap, Cory.)

  4. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    perfect, bill, here: guess ip has it...

  5. Ed Randazzo 2012.03.08

    It worked!!!
    You rascals are just too easy to provoke. And that Larry.....such a jokester. Maybe that's why you let him comment, Cory. Really though, you shouldn't because most of the other regulars have some degree of intelligence, but Larry demeans your site with his vitriolic ignorance.
    BTW, "mugwumps?" None of the patriots I know can even remotely be described as independent or detached from party politics. Neither are any of them old enough to have have been around in the late 19th century. Is this what you are teaching your students?

  6. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    It appears to be have been an effective trap to bring forward the true mindset of the elitist New Age Theocrats who belief the citizens are too stupid take care of themselves. When will the populist Democrats reject those of you who are in their leadership?

  7. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.08

    From Larry's link: 11 "Patriot" groups identified in South Dakota:
    —Alarm & Muster: The Modern Day Alarm Riders (Statewide)
    —Constitution Party (Brandon)
    —Get Out Of Our House (GOOOH) (Statewide)
    —Guardians of a Restored Republic (Arlington )
    —John Birch Society (Statewide)
    —Oath Keepers (Statewide)
    —The Republic for the united States of America (Statewide)
    —The Republic for the united States of America — Republic Congress (Statewide)
    —We Are Change (Brookings, Rapid City)
    —We the People (Statewide)

  8. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    patriot is to politics as slut is to weaver....

  9. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    And how many of the patriot groups are being fooled by the "Spiritual Evolution U.S. Theology" of you New Age Theocrats:

    The 'Statue Of Liberty,' is the goddess Ishtar, the 'Washington Monument,' is an obelisk- a symbol for the god Osiris. Horus is represented on our one dollar bill in the representation of the 'eye of Horus.' There are many pagan deities worshiped by the spiritual evolutionist groups that were erected as monuments to their gods, which are scattered across the nation in every state.

    .This teaching is now found in many groups, some are as follows: Mormonism- founded by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, both former Freemasons. Until the the 1970's civil rights lawsuits, an African American was not allowed to enter the Mormon temples due to their teachings concerning spiritual evolution. Freemasonry- The Knights Of The Klu Klux Klan Masonic Lodges, Fraternal Order Of Police Masonic Temples, The Thule Society (founders of the Nazi Party), Knights Templars Masonic Lodge, Rosicrucian Masonic Lodges, Rossi Cross Masonic Lodge, Scottish Rite Masonic Lodge (publisher of NEW AGE magazine), York Rite Masonic Temple, Grand Lodges, Eastern Star, and all other Masonic temples. Albert Pike, a member of the Knights Of The Klu Klux Klan and the Scottish Rite, rewrote the decrees for the Masonic lodges making their doctrines universal in the lodges, calling them 'free and accepted masons.' Fraternities- The Skull And Bones Society, a now large ivy league fraternity, requires the bone of a Native American or African American in order to join their fraternity, proving their beliefs in spiritual evolution.

    Darwin did much to try to prove his beliefs in spiritual evolution, and to prove that his religious views were correct. He often discussed his racist viewpoints, and did not hide his beliefs in his writings!

    ::Darwin did much to promote racism. He himself believed in "favored races" (particularly among the animals), but it is not inconsistent to apply this concept to humans. Both he and many after him picked up on evolution as supporting racism.

  10. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    And Fleming was right a cue with my research.

  11. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    And I have more, how many of these groups don't know what they are doing when the start out with the Pledge of Allegiance:

    My little girl was attending a Christian youth organization meeting and my wife and I were there to observe. I had just found out that the Pledge of Allegiance had been written by a member of an occult brotherhood, a Freemason. And there were all the little children, hands over their hearts, in a Masonic gesture, pledging allegiance to the flag of America. What did this have to do with the King of kings and the Lord of lords? It seemed like blasphemy in that context.

    "I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

    The above pledge (except for "one Nation under God") was written by Francis J. Bellamy (1855-1931), a Baptist clergyman and Fabian Socialist, who was also a member of Little Falls Masonic Lodge No. 181, Little Falls, New York. The pledge was published in "The Youth's Companion" magazine on September 8,1892 in Boston. The phrase, "one Nation under God", was added in 1954 by the U.S. Congress.

    Followers of Jesus ought to re-examine this civil ritual for several reasons. This pledge is really an oath. Jesus said that we should not swear oaths, but to let our "yes" be yes and our "no" be no (Matthew 5:33-37).

    We ought to consider what it is we are doing when we take part in a solemn ritual with pagans, Pagans, Mormons, Masons, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc. etc. and we speak of "one nation under God". What god are we referring to? Freemasonry teaches, "the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man." The Bible says that all who have not become a child of God by becoming reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, are an enemy of God. When we face the Red, White, and Blue with our hands over our hearts and speak of "one nation under god", are we speaking of the god of the U.S. one dollar bill? "In god we trust"? The god of the one dollar bill is the god of the U.S. seal on the one dollar bill: equilateral triangle, All-seeing Eye of Osiris, and the Egyptian pyramid. All symbols of Freemasonry.

  12. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    ANd how many of these patriot groups have been fooled by teh New Age Theocrats into adopting Dominion Theology:

    The New Age has almost replaced Biblical teaching throughout Christendom, so much so that the majority of church-goers do not know New Age from sound doctrine! These ghastly perversions of the antichrist mega-church of the Latter Days include meditation, visualization, psychology methods, group dynamics, healing of the memories, positive confession and affirmation, self-love - and many, many more New Age ideas and teachings.
    We are encountering the doctrines of devils which are bringing about the One World Church of the New World Order. One of the New Age horror heresies which is gripping the lives of millions of church-goers is Kingdom Now or Dominion Theology. This unscriptural theory is from the very pit of hell - BE WARNED, Christian! It is basically the belief that Christians are to go forth and conquer, to set up a victorious Christian political, spiritual World Empire BEFORE Jesus Christ returns. This idea is humanistic, appeals to the selfish pride in the carnal minded. Jesus Christ ALONE will set up His Kingdom. The Bible tells us that if Christ did not return, the entire world would perish in the period the Bible calls the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24).

  13. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    Larry, now you are right on cue with my research.

  14. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    like jesus wasn't "carnal minded."

  15. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    Larry, you should stop pushing the New Age Theology. There is a much better way.

  16. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    Theology is unbounded by the facts, age or otherwise.

  17. Troy 2012.03.08

    Personally, I applaud citizen involvement from all stripes assemblying and petitioning their government. And, not fond of characterizing people as "wing nuts" unless it is accompanied with evidence of a body of work that demonstrates nuttiness. CH, if you have it, you should include it so it is obvious you have not characterized her as such just because she holds views you would characterize as "extreme."

    At the same time, there are just some words that are not to be used in certain situations. Clan is one of them unless you are talking about your blood family. At minimum, it sends a connotation that isn't exactly flattering. At worst, it could be intended as code to appeal to a most unsavory part of our history (in particular, did you know South Dakota has quite a KKK history where the main target was foreigners (especially the Irish) and Catholics? Several years ago, the State Historical Society had a great exposition of Klan activity during the 1920's in our state).

    Reminds me of something from my college days.

    One semester I had two classes with an hour break in the humanities building (business major so wasn't there much) that housed the education department. During the break between classes, I often just sat in the back of a auditorium where sometimes it was quiet and I could study. Other times there was a lecture/seminar going on.

    Anyway, there was this education expert talking about bad teaching styles/practices. And throughout it he would say things like "When you do this it retards the student" or "retards his ability to learn/listen/understand."

    Now, if I had been in a biology lecture where he was saying something retards the growth of a plant, I would probably have forgotten it. For those of you old enough, the early 80's is when the use of the word to describe people was deemed no longer acceptable. Yes, we understood the genesis was to describe a condition of one who had experienced something which "retarded" their capacity to learn/develop mentally but it became shorthand to describe the PERSON as such which denigrated their basic dignity.

    Anyway, the whole time I'm saying "this guy should know better" and his very use of the word is "retarding" the people hearing his point. I know I couldn't get passed it. Similarly, anyone wanting to attract people to a political event should know not to use the word "clan."

  18. Stace Nelson 2012.03.08

    Tonchi is one of the nicest people in the world. Her choice of words were innocent.

  19. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    Lysol was the abortifacient of choice before Planned Parenthood. RT @PPact

  20. Troy 2012.03.08

    Good to know. Use of words inadvertently can still have adverse effects.

    There is a maxim "“Never insult anyone by accident.”

    I don't know if the author meant one should do it on purpose or it was an admonishment to choose your words carefully. Assuming the latter, my suggestion is to find a new word for clan.

  21. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.08

    Troy's got something there. There's innocent, there's naïve, and there's tone-deaf. If you're going to lead a movement, you've got to choose your words thoughtfully.

  22. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    "There’s innocent, there’s naïve, and there’s tone-deaf. If you’re going to lead a movement, you’ve got to choose your words thoughtfully."

    And then there is politically correct cultural Marxist New Age Theocratic restrictions of free speech.

  23. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.08

    ...but Troy, if I have to preface every blog post about my neighbors Weaver, Randazzo, et al. with a catalog of their wingnut positions, I'll need to double my server space. How about this: I'll let you and Tonchi refer to me as a liberal, maybe even a radical, and I'll keep using the term wingnut. We can all reserve the right to call each other on our labels when we feel it is important to discussion of the topic at hand.

    And doesn't Napoli run a whole self-proclaimed Wingnuts luncheon in Rapid City each week?

  24. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.08

    Steve: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! You don't have to be participating in a global conspiracy to hear "Clan rally" and do a double take. Now stop misusing the word theocrat. I am not one.

  25. Troy 2012.03.08


    Call me what you will but I ain't going to a clan or Klan meeting that isn't restricted to my family. If the choice of words are innocent as Stace says, I'd just avoid the connotation. But her choice. If it is intentional to protest against what you call "politically correct cultural Marxist New Age Theocratic restrictions of free speech," just know some people are like me who "ain't going to no dadgum clan meeting."


    You don't have to do it everytime. I know you think I'm a nut. And, you've made your case. But, she is a new person (to me at least) and I'd prefer some context on why she is a "right-wingnut" which is intentionally pejorative. But do as you wish. This is your forum.

  26. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    "Now stop misusing the word theocrat."

    Then stop misusing the world "nut" and "wing". I at least of supporting links to the New Age movement.

  27. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    Which do you prefer to be called, Steve: theocon or naturocon?

  28. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    Maybe for Sibby we just use "nut job" or "nut case."

  29. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    Fleming, thanks again for the personal attack. It proves you can't debate the substance of my arguments.

  30. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    And Cory, if you want to not be called a theocrat, then stop pushing your worldview onto others through the force of government like the Religious Right does. And two, it is also a First Amendment right for people such as the conservative family of South Dakota to assemble.

  31. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    huh? don't push your worldview and don't encroach on first amendent rights?

    nutocon it is.

  32. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    Your arguments have no substance, Steve. At least not that goofy new-age theology stuff. You get exactly what you deserve when you start with claptrap.

  33. D.E. Bishop 2012.03.08

    I've got the baton. Now sing along everyone!

    "That's entertainment!"

    Very good! Very, very good!

  34. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    Imbicilican. Or maybe a Ridiculoid Petitcrat.

  35. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    "Steve. At least not that goofy new-age theology stuff."

    Not my stuff, I provided links. Speaking of nuts, funny that you deny the "stuff" that you promote.

  36. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    Fleming, Bishop, Kurtz:

    Why do you all have so much hatred?

  37. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    No hatred here, I'm having a wonderful time. Your idea is ridiculous, Sibby, and when you keep flogging it, there's nothing to do but to tell you how goofy you sound. That's not hate. It's tough love. Now, quit spanking that thing. You'll grow hair on your palms.

  38. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    Monking those you disagree with in an effort to humiliate may be fun for you, but last week you showed us that such behavior is abuse. Your denial is a refusal to face the truth, as it is with my research on the New Age movement...that you are a huge part of.

  39. Owen Reitzel 2012.03.08

    Ulrtra right wing Republicans-Clan. Yup goes together.
    Proof-they're hatred of the President

  40. Steve Sibson 2012.03.08

    Owen, I am thinking about getting some T-shirts that say:

    Jesus Christ is my king
    I am not voting for President

    Want one?

  41. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    how about: "beat me $5" instead, Steve?

  42. Joseph Nelson 2012.03.08

    I appreciate your attempts to enlighten the group on the culture clash involving "New Age" philosophies. However, I do not think the tactics you are using are right for the audience of this blog. Just like Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22, you have to "become" like this audience to a certain extent in order for them to accept what you have to say. This will probably take tact, and the laying down of pride on your part, especially when people attack you or your ideas. Even if they don't accept you ideas as truth, hopefully they will respect you and listen to your ideas with an open ear (instead of bracing themselves when they see that you have posted something yet again, bemoaning the New Age movement).

  43. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    Joseph, we have all listed to, and debated Sibby's ideas about secularism being a "religion" ad infinitum and ad nauseum. The concept is absurd on its face. Further Sibby's notion that the US should become a Christian theocracy was rejected by the founders just as I reject it today.

    As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to discuss.

    Put it this way, if Sibby were trying to have this discussion with Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, he would be receiving far more derision and humiliation than he ever will encounter here.

  44. Troy 2012.03.08

    Bill, I think Joseph's comment is Steve's refrain is always just to dismiss a comment as "New Age Theocracy" and not make a specific response.

  45. Bill Fleming 2012.03.08

    Point taken. And for our part, we have two options for rebuttal. 1) Dismiss him in-kind or 2) Ignore him altogether. There is a third, of course, as Joseph suggests, and for the most part when Steve becomes substantive and rational, the derision stops. One can only hope he catches on sooner rather than later. But you know, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Especially paranoid old dogs.

  46. larry kurtz 2012.03.08

    Happy International Women's Day, Ms. Weaver!

  47. Owen Reitzel 2012.03.08

    Owen, I am thinking about getting some T-shirts that say:

    Jesus Christ is my king
    I am not voting for President

    Want one?"

    What??? Steve

  48. Joseph Nelson 2012.03.08

    We all come to this blog with different world views, and certainly with varying levels of ability in regards to making sound and valid arguments. I honestly think that if the commenters on this blog would refrain from name-calling, as well as pouncing on a person's comment because of some flaw, that we would all reach a common ground of understanding and tolerance (as in, sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own). I don't fully understand Steve's views on New Age Theocracies, nor do I fully understand your opposition to Steve's views. I do understand that if we were to converse about it logically and rationally, we would likely sort out the facts (and how the opposing sides view those facts) as well as the a priori reasons we hold that shape these more complicated beliefs. I think this would hold for not just this issue, but for many that occur on this blog. I understand that this blog is primarily a soap box for Cory, and certainly the main blog posts convey that, but it is also my desire that the comments section can be a public forum where arguments occur and truth arises, and that ultimately we see each of the other commenters as human beings that, if nothing else, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of their view points..

  49. Joseph Nelson 2012.03.08

    Thanks for responding. I understand how difficult it can be when the opposing side only wishes to engage in inflammatory, paranoid soliloquies rather than fruitful discussions. It is my hope that Steve will bring his thoughts to the table more tactfully (sometimes the language he uses connotes unhelpful meanings to his arguments). I think he has a concern about globalization, which I think we could all agree occurs, both with positive and negative consequences. I think he has a concern with the shift in social and cultural mores in America, which I think we can all agree that there has been a shift in mores, and we can probably agree on what they were and to what they have shifted (or are shifting). I would like to see Steve use different language when he argues his points, and perhaps if we collectively agreed to take a stance of "Unless an argument is made without reference to inflammatory remarks, mud slinging, or insults, our response will simply be 'Thank you for sharing, however I am unable to distinguish your argument from the inflammatory language used. I would be more than happy to further discuss the issue when you present your arguments without such language.'" Of course, we would have to hold our selves to the same standard (yet always allowing room for satire and gentle ribbing).

  50. Troy Jones 2012.03.09

    Joseph, you are a person with many gifts. Thanks for sharing.

  51. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.09

    Joseph, I share your desire to see the comment section serve as an open public forum that presents multiple views. I don't want an echo chamber. However, if Steve's one-track thinking turns every comment section, regardless of topic, into a discussion of the same tired, arcane topic, everyone else loses interest. Readers interested in Tonchi Weaver's announcement and conservative activism in Pierre start reading the comments but are driven away by an unrelated topic filled with off-putting shibboleths.

    When I comment on other blogs, I try to respect and address the general topic offered by the post. I address specifics rather than trying to turn every post into Google juice for one obsessive meme. Currently, I'm obsessed with HB 1234. But I don't tour the blogosphere spamming every post on every other topic with efforts to steer every conversation about tax policy, the Presidential election, Keystone XL, etc. back to HB 1234. I fill my own blog with posts on HB 1234 and let the market decide if it is interested in discussing the topic.

    Discussion of Steve's hobby horse does not contribute to our practical understanding of local or state politics. I rule it non-germane to pretty much everything and strongly urge the members of the body to ignore it.

  52. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09


    Cory, you sure are good at hate the Conservative Movement meme, but when your movement is exposed you cry like a baby. What is the saying:

    You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

    I brought into this discussion the premise that many, if not most, of the patriotic conservative movements have been unwittedly influenced by the New Age movement. And, it is clear that those of you in the radical left has been also influenced, and without knowing it (except for Fleming). This is the most influential movement running today, and you guys want to ignore it? So much for your idea of "critical thinking".

  53. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    " would like to see Steve use different language when he argues his points, and perhaps if we collectively agreed to take a stance of “Unless an argument is made without reference to inflammatory remarks, mud slinging, or insults"

    Joseph, I appreciate what you were trying to say, but I must say Fleming and Kurtz frequently use inflamatory and insulting language of a personal nature. Where on this thread as my language exceeded theirs?

  54. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    ...and so it goes. Sibby doesn't think that calling us devils is insulting. Larry busts out a dick joke. I give up. Like I said, good luck Joseph.

  55. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    "Sibby doesn’t think that calling us devils is insulting."

    Link to the comment where I called you a devil. Stop with the lies, false accusations, and personal attacks.

  56. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    You yourself linked to it Sibby. Do you read what you post? Or just cut, paste and throw it up there?

  57. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    "We are encountering the doctrines of devils..."
    "This unscriptural theory is from the very pit of hell..."

  58. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    No where does it say Bill Fleming is the devil. In fact, I do not picture you as a Christian Right Dominion Theology advocate.

    Try again.

  59. larry kurtz 2012.03.09

    don't muck with the duck unless you want the bill, bill.

  60. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    I know Sibby, just the Mormans, the Masons, the Founding Fathers, the philosophers of the Enlightenment, Isacc Newton, Einstein...etc, etc, etc.

  61. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    So Bill, do you find it amazing that the Religious Right are following the theology of the Mason inspired Enlightenment? They are completely in denial in regard to the Enlightenment inspired Deism of the Founding Fathers, like I once were? Isn't these historical truths important to understand? And then to understand those who deny the deity and exclusivity of Jesus Christ?

  62. larry kurtz 2012.03.09

    Isn't you is o' isn't you ain't, Bill?

  63. larry kurtz 2012.03.09

    "Think of the simple minded gardener Chance (played magnificently by Peter Sellers) in the classic movie "Being There" who accidentally rises to political power in Washington making very simple remarks about how gardens change with seasons."

  64. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    I don't understand your last post at all, Steve, sorry. It's incomprehensible to me. Perhaps you know what it is you're trying to say, but I do not.

  65. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    ...nice clip, Kurtz.

  66. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Bill, I already knew you are lost.

  67. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Steve, I already know you are three french fries shy of a happy meal.

  68. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Bill, thanks again for resorting to personal attacks due to your inability to debate the substance of my research.

    Here is what a freemason says about deism, enlightenment, the founding fathers, and his religion:

  69. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Okay, Thanks Sibby. And I presume you have a problem with this authors conclusion because???


    "Present Masonic Grand Lodges – whether in Britain or North America – are unanimous in insisting that men of various religions can join together in Masonic brotherhood — with no single religion or concept of a Supreme Being given precedence. This remains one of Masonry’s most attractive virtues: it provides a template for cross-cultural harmony. Such an ideal of tolerance and universal understanding – despite its sometimes inconsistent application – bears witness to the ongoing influence of Enlightenment values today.

  70. larry kurtz 2012.03.09

    "Men" is what is wrong, not only with that excerpt, but with all primates that are patriarchal. Matriarchal bonobos use negotiation rather than violence to educate.

    Woman is the hope of humankind.

  71. larry kurtz 2012.03.09

    "No woman's health should depend on who she is or where she works or how much money she makes." @BarackObama. #birthcontrol #waronwomen RT @"Marika Shaub ‏ @marikatogo Retweeted by

  72. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09 the GOP will discover in the upcoming election cycle, no doubt, Mr. Kurtz. After the past two weeks their party is most likely toast in the female vote market.

  73. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Because, as I said earlier, it violates the exclusivity of Jesus Christ, which is the defining point of a Christian:

    "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).

    I hope you know understand my previous comment. For more on the exclusivity of Jesus Christ see this:

  74. larry kurtz 2012.03.09 says it all: capitalizing christianity has destroyed its credibility.

  75. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    And Bill, the real danger of the ecumenical movement is that it may represent the Harlot (Apostate Church) riding the Beast of Revelation, which is later destroyed by the anti-Christ once its one-world government is fully established.

  76. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    ...or it may be a good idea...

    ...or it may be an invitiation to visit a unicorn ranch... or a trick conspracy involving aliens from another dimension, or....

    One more time, Sibby as per Thomas Jefferson:

    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them..."

  77. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    By the way, Steve, Thomas Jefferson was a huge fan of Jesus. He even did his own edit on the bible to help clarify his true teachings. I'm pretty sure he rejected the book of Revalations (Apocalypse) as do I. It should never have been included in the Christian canon because it drives people insane.

  78. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Jefferson spent too much time with the enlightened elitists in France. Putting man above God is not something a Christian should do.

  79. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    "Thomas Jefferson was a huge fan of Jesus"

    He denied the deity and the exclusivity of Jesus Christ. He only considered him to be a great teacher.

  80. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Here's a little test for you Steve.

    Other's might like it too.

    Maybe Cory would like to post it.

    It's multiple choice and you
    may only choose one answer:

    When considering whom to vote for in a political contest for President of the United States, how important is their religious faith?

    a. Very important
    b. Somewhat important
    c. Not very important
    d. Not at all important.

    What would your answer be, Sibby?

  81. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    "d" as long as we have a Constitutional Republic where the President is not the Dictator. If we have a Dictatorship, then the answer would have to be "a".

  82. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    My final answer, since we do have a dictatorship, and our two choices are hand-picked by the New Age Theocrats, I will vote for no President and instead confess Jesus Christ as my King.

  83. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    ...and there we have it, Joseph Nelson. The Sibson effect in full bloom.

  84. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Obviously Fleming doesn't understand that Obama promotes Liberation Theology (Marxism in the name of Christianity) and Romney is a Mormon (a cult in the name of Jesus Christ).

  85. larry kurtz 2012.03.09

    jesus christ=dialing for dollars.

  86. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    You are correct, Sibby. That is not my understanding at all. Barack Obama is the duly elected President of the United States of America, and Mr. Romney's faith has nothing to do with his qualifications to serve as POTUS. Nothing.

  87. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Bill, I am not talking about who is qualified, I am talking about who I won't vote for and why.

  88. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Yes, you are using a religious litmus test to screen your choice of political candidates, then accusing those of us who don't do that of advocating for theocracy. That is an insane, irrational position Steve. The least you could do is admit that you yourself are the one advocating for theological purity and a Christian Supremacist theocracracy rather than accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of being some kind of deluded, demonically possessed, mindless heathen. You are shamelessly and (perhaps unwittingly) intellectually insulting in your blind, self-righteoius zealotry.

  89. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    No Bill, the issue is that the New Age Theocrats are not giving me a choice. I would have voted for Ron Paul and he is hardly a Christian Theocrat. Of course he propably would have been dead on arrival. That is how Theocrats work.

  90. Daniel Buresh 2012.03.09

    Get out the tinfoil for this blog posting. You really should spend more time complaining about relevent things rather than degrading yourself to make connections that are borderline elementary.

  91. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    Daniel, sit down the Kool Aid.

  92. LK 2012.03.09

    Ok, I realize that Michael Lewis wasn't discussing commodities trading specifically, but both Liar's Poker and The Big Short left me no doubt that traders speculating brought down the US economy.

    The commodities traders have historically created bubbles and made huge profits from them and left lots of poor investors holding the bag.

    I stand by the comparison to load sharks and casinos.

  93. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Well, if the New Age Theocrats are in charge of the GOP primary process, Sibby, I can't really see what you're all that concerned about. Obviously they don't have a clue what they're doing. What an exercise in political chaos.

  94. Troy Jones 2012.03.09


    Good stuff. What is ignored in all these is the committee work where alot is done.

  95. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Larry, the whole political spectrum has shifted pretty far to the right over the last 20 years or so. (It's that "frog in the pan" thing Troy mentioned. Time to jump out, baby.)

    People who used to be considered "center right" Dems and Repubs are now considered "center left." That's about where your Montana boys are sitting. But hey, out here in SD, even the conservatives are being called "liberals" by their fellow GOPers.

    Don't believe me? Just ask Troy... and Stace Nelson.

    Keep your powder dry, boys.

    We're headin' for a showdown, come November.

  96. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    (btw, I'm tempted to describe this effect in Hegelian dialectic terms, just to get Sibby torked, but I'll pass. I've razzed him enough for one day.)

  97. Steve Sibson 2012.03.09

    I can't believe how simple minded Fleming is. He can only think in dichotomies.

  98. Bill Fleming 2012.03.09

    Sibby, I'm a monist, not a dualist, remember? You need to keep your story straight here, bud. No fair trying to pretend you're a holistic thinker when you've already drawn a line in the sand.

  99. D.E. Bishop 2012.03.09

    Oh my God! I have not had so much fun reading comments EVER! This one just killed me: "Sibby has a small penis."

    That was so unfair Larry! I'm sitting in a coffee shop in St. Paul,MN, snorting tea out my nose!!! Some stares are bemused, some concerned.

    Seriously, I think I'm going to print out this post and the comments and have it all cast in bronze.

    I can't describe this to any of my friends. I can only send them the link, and tell them, "Don't ask questions, don't try to follow any flow, don't try to understand. Just read as if it all makes perfect sense."

    Really, my deepest thanks to each one of you gentlemen. I am indebted.

  100. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.03.09

    I'm always surprised by the things that get you folks talking.

    By the way, Troy, I'm working up a dossier on Tonchi Weaver to explain her qualifications as right-wingnut. Stay tuned!

  101. Troy Jones 2012.03.10


    I think the world has shifted "statist" as you have both conservatives and liberals calling for items that would have been dismissed out of hand 20 years ago by civil libertarians of both political ideologies.

    This is how you have statist conservatives calling me a liberal.

  102. Troy Jones 2012.03.10

    It also explains you thinking it has moved right when I think it has gone left, as I think conservative statism is left of me and I suspect you consider liberal statism right of you.

  103. Bill Fleming 2012.03.10

    Good explanation, Troy.

  104. Joseph Nelson 2012.03.10

    Blast! I think my plan to generate the most comments on a post has been discovered! I was so close, only 146 comments more and I could have beat "Filipino Christian Cult Buys South Dakota Town". If only some angry cult members s could have jumped on board!

  105. D.E. Bishop 2012.03.10

    Please, oh please! Don't stop! Don't stop!

    (Commenting, that is.)

  106. D.E. Bishop 2012.03.11

    Rats. You did stop. Damn.

Comments are closed.