Gordon Howie's Christian conservative blog machine declares soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder welfare queens. Howie provocateur Brad Ford tells vets that PTSD is just "combat cowardice." Man up, says the Howie blog, and go back to the good old days when "You did your duty and personally absorbed the anguish, which would diminish with time."
(As an added bonus, Ford's vivid anecdotal evidence that PTSD is a fraud leads the Howie Christian conservative blog machine to use the f-word more in one post than I've written in this secular humanist blog in eight years.)
How hard do I need to work to counter this latest offense from the Howie blog? Not very:
Despite exhaustive scientific studies that have explored the symptoms, causes, diagnoses, and prevalence of post-traumatic stress disorder, hardcore skeptics remain.
...To Afghanistan veteran [David] Weidman, most people who so stridently dismiss PTSD have simply failed to read the available scientific literature on the subject and are, he said, “uneducated.”
...“There are people who can experience something who have no side effects. It could be that person (who ends up being a denier),” said Weidman, a student at Penn State-Lehigh Valley. “Or it could be the person who is extremely uneducated and chauvinistic, who says a guy who gets diagnosed with PTSD ‘is not being a man.’ You’re going to have a perfect storm within the individual who’s going to be that outlier, who says: ‘It doesn’t exist.’
“Or, it could be the person who actually has post-traumatic stress, who is not seeking help, who is more living up to society’s ideal male image of being strong and being resilient,” he added. “Those people going to make even more noise.”
Mental health experts say the occasional repudiation of PTSD is merely an extension of the larger societal taint associated with anxiety or mood disorders.
“It comes back down to the stigma of mental illness,” said Jean Teichroew, spokeswoman for the Anxiety and Depression Association of America. “Military members also are afraid to speak out because it’s seen as a weakness. The VA has programs to try to combat that, too. But when you have a sergeant who doesn’t think you should be afraid of a bomb going off near you or seeing a dead body, that’s another issue” [Bill Briggs, "PTSD May Be Overdiagnosed, But PTSD Deniers Are 'Wrong,' Psychologists Say," NBC News, 2012.11.26].
I'm not sure what Ford and Howie gain by casting their anecdotal doubt and f-words on science and veterans. I guess touting their machismo outweighs their respect, decency, and humanity.
Update 07:35 MDT: The Displaced Plainsman nominates Ford's labelling of soldiers as moochers for "Most Reprehensible Post of the Year."
I saw this earlier, as well and was dumbfounded. To classify our veterans as part of the 47% trying to be on the dole? My guess is Mr. Ford, (if he even exists) has never served his country for one day. "Suck it up" is not a mental heath strategy.
Cory, is Howie a vet or a chicken hawk?
Howie is trolling for donors.
If the military really wanted to curb sexual violence it would train Lesbians to teach the realities of sexual harassment to men and gay men to teach it to women.
PTSD is a reality, although I'm not sure I'd call it a disorder. It is a very normal, natural, understandable response to trauma. It has some negative effects, but that doesn't mean one is disordered experiencing Post-Traumatic stress. Indeed, I think it would be more disordered NOT to experience it. I know I have a harder time watching movies like A BRIDGE TOO FAR or SAVING PRIVATE RYAN since my time in Iraq than I ever did before. Can't watch cop shows with bodies strewn about, either.
But the effects can, I know, be debilitating in some which is where the "disorder" comes in. But because it is really an aggravated instance of a very normal response, and there is a ton of federal money available for diagnosis and treatment, I do think the disorder is over-reported.
No, that doesn't mean vets are just trolling for disability benefits. It means that VA and military psychologists and other providers can get bonus points of a sort - either expanded budgets, promotions, fitness report bullets, etc. - by identifying PTSD cases, outlining programs to care for PTSD patients (which, of course, need actual patients), and so on.
When you pay folks extra to treat cancer, they find a way to call as much as they can "cancer".
I have to agree with you on this one Cory. I can't see what Ford was thinking on this issue. Are they trying to keep veterans from reading the blog? I know some people that I served with "snapped" and experienced shell-shock type symptoms. Some of these soldiers never saw combat or a dead body (I also had/have my own symptoms, but I did see things). I just think Mr Ford doesn't understand the unique kinds of stress that happen during deployments.
Are there some soldiers or psychologists (good point PNR) that take advantage of the system? Probably. But I would think the answer is to put troops in deployment/combat situations less often. That would solve the problem much better than calling people liars for saying they are shell-shocked.
From Mr. Ford's blog: "If everyone who goes “off to war” becomes entitled to a disability payment for mental anguish, then war will become too costly." What really appears to bother Mr. Ford is that PTSD might bring about the end of warfare.
All I can say is, if the cost of military technology (Stealth bombers, nuclear weapons, subs, B-whatevers, etc.) hasn't made war too costly, paying scraps of disability pay after every possible delay to soldiers won't do it. For that matter, if the death toll of WWI didn't make war too costly (half a million men died at the Battle of the Somme alone), nothing will. War is here to stay, PTSD or no PTSD.
The quote using the F word is the least offensive part of the Howie/Ford blog post.
It's ironic that their wing of the GOP seems to get all riled up if the legislature refuses to extend unlimited benefits to veterans - even when the benefits are unrelated to military service, for instance free tuition for graduate school studies. Yet here's a need resulting directly from military service, and they're against addressing it.
@Owen I was informed this morning that Gordon has never been in the military by someone who knows him well.
Here's yet another T-bagger accepting millions in welfare:
http://www.salon.com/2011/03/31/welfare_tea_parties/
How reminiscent of Ann Coulter's vicious attacks on the 9-11 widows a few years ago. What is it with these hyper-right-wingers when they lead the worship of groups of people when it serves their political purposes and then assassinate their character when they're done with them?
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-207_162-1690954.html
I hold both parties responsible for letting down the veterans who did their duty without hemming and hawing and attacking fellow Americans. No loyal American should be silent when they see the VA so sickening underfunded and understaffed to meet the critical need created by America's warfare commitments. And no loyal American should be silent when veterans get this kind of dispicable treatment from ignorant knuckleheads who make these senseless attacks.
Everyone to a certain extent experience PTSD it doesn't matter if they were in the military or not, that's just the way it is. But those that have served and lived the life that can only be found in the military in wartime are the only ones that we as a country absolutely need to protect from the anguish of PTSD.
We have no idea what Brad Freaking Ford did in the military, if he served at all, then what Daffy Duck did on his day off. Remember Daffy is a fictitious character. If Ford doesn't come clean he deserves no more attention then Daffy would.
For these veterans it isn't about dealing with the present, its about dealing with the past. Most of us will never know what it is like to see your friend with his or her head blown off. Most of us will never know the trauma of picking up body pieces and wondering who or where they go. Most of us will never know the feeling of trying to embalm something that used to be a person but now is just flesh with a dog tag. We just wont ever know.
I had an uncle that was functional in society. He lived in WWII and laid wire behind enemy lines, oftentimes right in the middle of the fighting. Despite being one of the most decorated vets that this state has ever seen he still suffered from PTSD, even if they didn't call it that at the time.
Brad Ford come out come out whoever you are you bottom feeding low life son of a bitch. Bring your military service record for all of us to look at and then tell your brothers in arms that they aren't really sick and then we will talk.
These people sacrificed so the oil companies could continue to make big money. These people sacrificed so that the defense contractors in this country could make billions of dollars selling and exporting death. These people sacrificed so that both you Brad and the rest of us could live the lives that we live without serving ourselves.
If you think its so easy, join up. But don't say PTSD is not a problem. I suspect that you couldn't walk a mile in any of the vets boots that you speak of. But then I don't think you are real either.
Howie either prove that this is a real person of shut the hell up. Remember that what you have written in your blog will be brought up by every vet in the state when the time comes for one of your self righteous people that wants to run for office.
There is one person that we haven't heard from here. He knows what the truth is because he has been there. He knows what his brothers in arms have been through because he has seen it first hand. He knows what the rest of us only think we know. I don't always get along with Stace but I do respect him for the time he spent in the service of this country. I respect him for serving period!
How about it Stace Nelson how to you feel about someone that has such a low opinion of your fellow soldiers?
Howie you are a fake and a fraud. If you don't present proof that there is such a person as Brad the F---k Ford you don't deserve the space that it takes to bury a bone. If you don't like what I've said send your best. I have the people that served behind me. I love those people. What you seem to love is war without the baggage.
Just remember and think about this. God sure could be a black lesbian with a attitude. What the hell ya gonna do then?
Sometimes it isn't enough for the truth to set you free. Sometimes it can only be done by someone in a uniform. Thank you to all those that have served, PTSD or not. Nuff Said
The Blindman
I'm in no condition to lend gravitas to this conversation, but I'd like to opine & speculate.
I often compare what the Greatest Generation went through in WWII... to know the horrors they saw, and how they were still able to come back and function reasonably well in society. They led us to a true boom, afterall (maybe the solution is to make babies?).
Maybe they suffered from PTSD to the same extent that our soldiers do now. Maybe they didn't. Perhaps they didn't because it was a shared cultural experience - so many fought, and everyone sacrificed. Today, we go about our merry way despite having embroiled ourselves in two decade-long wars, still buying our big screen TVs and all that.
My grandfather never liked to talk about what he did in the War, except the funny stuff. He still somehow managed to raise three successful well-adjusted sons, and win the heart of a very prudent lady who kept him on the straight & narrow.
I would never say we shouldn't offer a helping hand to a veteran; it's only right. But I would think we all would benefit better by treating them with the dignity they deserve, and help them lift themselves up, rather than pick them up.
Sounds right. Ain't easy to do with policy, though.
Thank you Blindman. You said what I was thinking far better than I could have.
Stories now coming to light from children of WWII veterans suggest they also had PTSD problems. Waking up screaming in the night, etc.
People are no longer so reticent about expressing concerns about their own psychological or psychiatric problems.
Speaking as a combat wounded veteran, Brad Ford to me is just another asshat that is doing more harm to those who have served. I have ptsd and have had it since I first became involved in fire fights at 18 years old. Bradley seems to think that once you have seen one blown apart brother or innocent civilian, you have seen them all. The craziness of it all is that part of it is true, at least for me it was. I did suffer the quiet anxiety for years and years of the sights and smells until it was just too much for me to live with. I finally sought help and am able to deal with my physical and mental issues now. The VA has great doctors and staff to help deal with these issues, so if you are reading this and you know of someone who needs help, please advise them that there is that help available to them.
Bradley and Gordo also do not understand the suicide rates that are currently being documented. The rates are astounding and a national shame as we put our military into a situation where they just keep going back to the same meat grinder. It is kind of ironic that this hate speak by these two should be at this time of the year when we supposedly honor veterans and their sacrifices. With new republicans, that is just slogans for a furniture sale. So please do count me as one of the 47% but actually count me as 100% American. Count me as a 100% believer in America. Count me as someone who believes that all must be able to speak, even if it pisses me off, I fought and bled for them to be able to do so.
Howe/Ford sounds like another version of the people who spit on Vietnam vets. Coulter too.
Jerry I thank you for your service and a great post. Hope to see more
Bill, remember The Invisible War, the Oscar-nominated documentary on sexual assault that featured retired Marine Stace Nelson? That film says military sexual assault is the leading cause of PTSD among female veterans.
Brad Ford will tell you those women should quit whining, too. I wonder if he thinks they are imagining their rapes along with their PTSD.
This is the base that the GOP caters to. I have not seen one...not one political figure speak out to their radical right base to say that this is just wrong...plain...flat out wrong.
Over at the SDWC, Troy takes on the idiots...thanks Troy...but the mindset of the base is still what makes the GOP stand up and salute in fear.
To the base that still embraces these idiots...seek help...soon.
Stace...time to stand up, we know that you are not afraid of a fight!
The beginning was long before there was even a thought of me. I have been told this story many times by different men that I have know in my life. They are all gone now but I'm sure they wouldn’t mind if I shared it with the rest of you.
It started in the late thirties after the Great Depression and before the war to end all wars WWII. It was a time when there wasn’t a phone for miles and electricity was just something that city folks had that the people out in this part of the country only dreamed of. At our house we had a wind generator and a propane generator that were the source of amazement to the rest of the community because of the things they could do without manual labor.
Just to get from one place to another took advanced planning and often took the form of horses or mules either ridden or driven. There were a few cars but the roads left a bunch to be desired when dry and if they were wet you didn’t even think of driving.
It was a simple life but the neighbors you had were a close knit group that were more like family then just people you knew. If someone got sick, everybody knew it. If someone died within a couple of hours everybody not only knew it but would show up at that persons place to help in any way they could think of. The food was great, there were very few poor cooks back then. But it always depended on the season and the weather what you would eat.
They created their own fun. It might be branding, it might be baking bread, and it might be coon hunting.
It was a lot different then when it came to coon hunting. It was never just two or three men getting together to hunt, sometimes there were as many as thirty, and most of the time there were at least fifteen that got together.
It started in early fall and continued through the winter when the weather was right. That meant anything from sixty degrees to 0 as long as it wasn’t snowing to hard. They would hunt with as many as six or eight dogs. If you had a dog, you brought a dog. They took turns selling or using the hides, even the ones that didn’t own a dog. They hunted with oil lanterns, carbide lights and the new fangled thing a two cell flashlight being carful not to use the flashlights to much as they were needed to shine trees.
There were no rich people around here and there were no poor people as far as the bunch that hunted together, they were all the same. There wasn't a color barrier back then. That didn’t come around here for many years after that time. The Indians and the whites did the same things and lived the same way. They were all neighbors. My Uncle Cars used to say “everybody looks the same in the dark”. He was right they do.
Every time they hunted it would be decided where and when they would hunt the next time and sure enough when that afternoon came around there would be wagons and cars headed for the designated hunting ground. It was like Monday night football only outside.
Although they came to hunt it was far from the only thing that was done. The men took those opportunities away from the women folk to talk about life. The old men would talk to the young ones giving advice and listening to their problems. They would talk politics and the talk would always get around to the war in Europe.
You have to remember that around here most of the people came from Germany. Most of the parents talked English but some were darn poor at it. At that time people often looked at Germans like they might just be spies and nothing could have been further from the truth. Most of these people left Germany for the same reasons that the war was being fought in the first place. As for Japan, nobody around here had ever seen a Japanese except maybe in a book.
They went sometimes by themselves, and sometimes in twos or threes to the war with one common thing. The week before they left they came to the hunt and everyone shuck their hands and told them how proud they were of the ones that were going knowing full well that there were some that wouldn’t come back. At these times everyone stood in a big circle and talked. There was often a jug passed around and many a young kid had his first taste of the hard stuff when the bottle was passed from person to person around the circle.
When the first ones went in there was much talk about seeing each other after the war and it was agreed on by all to meet here at the ranch on the creek six months after peace was declared to start the hunt and the circle again.
Well they did come home. A couple had no visible scars but were forever changed in their minds. A couple came home on crutches one stayed that way for the rest of his life, and one lost an arm. And a couple never made it back to the circle again. There were more then a few tears shed the first time they all got together to hunt and it took years to get rid of the bad dreams some had from their experiences.
When I was still little I knew a lot of these people. To a man they would never talk about the war but instead choose to relive hunts of the past and friends that they hunted with. My Uncle Cars was one of the most decorated men in the state and we still don’t know what he did to earn all of his medals. They were all like that. War must indeed be hell.
As I said they are all gone now but every once in a while when my friends and I get together someone will tell a story that their dad or grandpa told them about the hunt or the circle and you will see heads shaking because they have heard the same story from their own dads or grandpa.
I'm the only one around here that still hunts. But there have been times when the wind was just right and I would let my imagination run a little wild, that I could hear people down the creek laughing and talking. Sure I know there isn't anybody there but it is times like these that I know I'm not alone either.
Well there you have it. This is by no means the only story from that time about the men that went to war for this country. The hunting might be different, some hunted fox, some water foul, and some fished, but the overall theme was the same. Country boys thought and worried more about their friends and neighbors and their country back then. It was all about friendship, and just getting the chance to get together again to enjoy each others company. Is it just me or have we lost something along the way?
The Blindman
My Grampa was a machine gunner in the Great War. The gun was so big he was issued a mule to haul it. He occupied a hole forward of the trench and he was the top target for the enemy. He was a brave and good soldier who earned a purple heart and a few other medals. He saw and smelled no-mans-land strewn with dead, distorted, decaying, rotting bodies. He watched crows eating the eyeballs out of the bodies.
Grampa
I remember that those who were in combat just did not talk about it if they were from WWII. That does not mean they had not problems. They had flashbacks, my uncle told me of one, which were horrible. Telling one to suck it up is a form of disrespecting the vet. If they can not watch police storys with bodies strewn around the street, then they might be more right than those of us who have grown calous to such autrocities.
I happen to be a CHristian but again the Christian right has disappointed me. And they wonder how could I be a democrat. Well I can not be a republican, although some of them are rather good people too.
Howie is the guy Noem will be wrapping her arms around if she runs for Senate. Scary stuff.
Noem and all Republicans need to boycott this lunatic.
Roger, you're right about Ford's and Howie's disrespect. It fits with what Eve says: right-wingers like Ford glorify war, but they then refuse to admit the human cost that we pay for our violence and imperialism. They praise soldiers only as tools for the Right's dirty work and reinforcement of their John Wayne fantasies; they turn on soldiers and call them whiny welfare queens when they ask for help (to pick themselves up, lift them up ourselves... I'm not seeing a relevant distinction in the PTSD discussion, Wayne) in getting back to the normal lives for which they fought.
Christmas Eve 1988 my Vietnam-Vet dad pulled a gun on my mother. My 13 year old sister jumped in front of my mother and my dad turned the gun on himself and blew his brains out in front of them.
Diagnosed, but untreated PTSD. He didn't want to be treated, in his mind - labeled with anything, because of people like Howie. 42 years after my dad came home from Vietnam, my family is still dealing, and suffering, from his PTSD.
Rot in hell, Howie.
You can carry the same wingnut outrage to children having kids. They hear that self-righteous crap so much they see no alternative to having kids when they are only 15 years old themselves.