Rep. Stace Nelson is fighting a primary within a primary. Everyone knows the main event is the GOP Senate primary battle with mainstream money favorite Marion Michael Rounds. To make it to that main event, Nelson must beat state senator Larry Rhoden and flim-flam physician Annette Bosworth in a sort of pre-primary to claim the title of the one credible contender who can upset Rounds's cow-flop cart. (And yes, there can be only one.)
That pre-primary isn't just being fought in South Dakota. Nelson et al. must wage that pre-primary battle at least as vigorously in Washington, D.C., off to which all three anti-Rounds candidates have been schlepping to prove their cred to the big national conservative organizations that have declared their intention to help a "true conservative" beat Rounds and take South Dakota's Senate seat to wreak more Cruz-Paul havoc on Weimar America.
That pre-primary explains Rep. Nelson's press release this a.m. announcing that he has half the state of South Dakota working for his campaign. O.K., not half the state; just half the crazy people in the state:
- Eldon Stahl, director of field activities, is a John Birch Society organizer. Bircherism is so central to his identity, he IDs his Facebook profile as "EldonStahlJBS". JBS is all about Agenda 21. And remember: the founder of the John Birch Society, Robert Welch, said President Eisenhower was a Communist.)
- Shelli Hodgkins, scheduler, is big on the 9-12 Project, another of Glenn Beck's book-selling projects.
- Scott Bartlett is a former chair of the South Dakota Constitution Party, which competes with the Birchers for the tin-foil crown.
- Aaron Heidelberger (yes, my cousin) promotes the economy-crashing idea of full-reserve banking. (Let's see if he can help treasurer Rob Bender find a full-reserve bank to handle Nelson's campaign funds.)
- Shamra Johnson insists that the worst part of Common Core is the plot by some global entity to brainwash our children (good grief: can we just have a rational policy conversation?).
- Barb Landers, Tonchi Weaver, and Florence Thompson are all part of the Black Hills Tea Party fringe who will talk all day about our modern crusade against socialism but never get around to practical problem-solving.
- And then there's Gordon Howie. Tax-dodging, racist-harboring, used-car selling Gordon Howie.
Perhaps to his credit, Nelson also gets four sitting legislators (Reps. Russell, Kaiser, Campbell, and May) to identify themselves as campaign team members and thus don a big bullseye for the upcoming Legislative session, during which the GOP leadership will consign their bills to the same dustbin as Nelson's.
I know half of Nelson's team is nuts, but then so are half the arch-conservative money people to whom he's playing in Washington, D.C. His main message here is that he's a viable candidate, able to assemble a statewide team of absolutely-not-RINO believers ready to put big out-state money to work. His campaign team is certainly bigger than three kids wearing "Mom for Senate!" t-shirts. But his team is also much less professional than the eagerly outsourcing Bosworth campaign (where does she get the money for such high-falutin' help?).
Will Nelson's grass-rootsy South Dakota wingnut crew inspire more confidence than the professionals Bosworth says she's assembling or than whomever Rhoden gets to run his show? And will his announced cadre of campaigners be able to move beyond speechifying about socialism to make concrete gains in marketing, organizing, and fundraising that will win their man the Washington nod to fight on beyond January? Stay tuned!
Who is Lora Hubbel lining up with? I would have expected to see her on the list. How about Allen & Leslee Unruh? What about the other super duper conservative legislators like Brock Greenfield?
Nelson, Rounds and the other Rounds, should answer for their support for NOem and the coup that she is a part of. I thought that Nelson was a soldier once, if that is the case, why does he not denounce this coup for what it is now doing the active and veterans. This is the real disgust of how now insurance will not pay for the latest soldier deaths. How totally republican.
http://www.today.com/news/shutdown-denies-death-benefits-families-fallen-soldiers-8C11355842
R, didn't Unruh and Nelson butt heads at last year's SDGOP convention? Isn't Unruh more a creature of the machine who would back the horse with the most money to boost his own fortunes?
Thank God for Stace Nelson. He at least makes living in a one-party state interesting. His campaign is becoming for me what many feel about their second favorite football team, and the cheering and groaning are about even, currently.
Nelson as second football team: that's the comparison I've been looking for! We can cheer him on to beat everyone else so we can have the most interesting Super Bowl between him and our favorite team.
Jerry brings up a very disgusting and disturbing story.
Stace, it is the Tea Party and the right wing extremists who have shut down our government and holding us hostage. They are hurting veterans while they wrap themselves in the flag and read the redacted version of the Bible and the Constitution that suits their own willfully ignorant interests.
Stace. Your Tea Party has caused the families of servicemen and women who made the ultimate sacrifice to experience even greater pain. The GOP and Republicans think it is good policy to deny 500,000 veterans meals on wheels yet see the WWII Memorial as a photo op...insulting the vets even further by using them as political tools and props.
Stace, the consequences of the Tea Party and GOP shutdown has to rip your guts out. Do you think there is a better way of representing America?
What are you doing to take the Tea Party's hands off the throats of veterans and the Americans they've taken hostage?
Jana, I was about to write that it might not be totally fair to take Stace to task for actions of the Tea Party, being that he hasn't even had the chance to act first-hand in the irresponsible and injurious-to-our-country ways you outline in your comment. Thankfully, I took a quick look at Stace's "Contract with South Dakota" and learned that Stace does indeed deserve scolding for being aligned with the Tea Party government de-railers (not to be confused with derailleurs ... after all, it's pretty clear the Tea Party only has one gear when it comes to government, and that's "Reverse"). From Stace's signed pledge:
"9. Support the full repeal of Obamacare (also known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act); and, I will oppose any bill or budget resolution that provides funding to implement or enforce any part of it."
Now, the first independent clause is fine, if useless. I'm happy to let Stace support whatever he wants. Lots of Republicans support the repeal; they clearly haven't been able to make it happen. It's that second clause that hooks Stace right up to the government-shutdown wagon. Opposing any legislation that funds or enforces the ACA is what has us in this mess, and it's what has me so dumbfounded at Republican complaints that it's Obama who's unwilling to compromise.
@Jerry - take a look around the state where Nelson has placed signs. Granted, he has way more up than Noem but many of them are right next to Noem. I believe he's trying to send the message that somehow he and she are connected. I happen to know they're not but it smells of riding coattails or projecting an inaccurate message to me...
Interesting: is it coat tails... or is it just that Noem and Nelson are both picking high-visibility places for their signs? Or is the coat-tailing organic: is it just that landowners who have Noem signs up (already? with no primary or general election challenger yet?) also happen to like Nelson?
Just how many instances of Noem-Nelson sign convergence are there... and how many comparable instances of Noem-Rounds convergence? Who's got 'em, and where?
That is a problem, T! Time to ask all the candidates about their stance on Rick Weiland's new pledge never to pull the plug on the operations of the federal government that Congress swears to uphold.
Rhoden laughing.
Rhoden laughing.
@TG If you see Wall Drug signs being used by Nelson like they were used for NOem and rest of the right wing nuts, that would be a tell in West River anyway. Nelson has a lot of support around Alexandria and the Mitchell area on both sides of 90, more so than the other two Rounds guys that I have seen. I drive up and down that interstate and actually check things out besides the beautiful scenery.
The 9-12 project rings a bell. Glen Beck...the only guy too crazy for Fox News. Maybe we should get a white board and draw this one out to see the vision guiding the campaign staff.
Sorry. Glenn Beck.
Meanwhile over at DWC...they are agonizing over orange cones on a road nobody can reach with the snow.
Maybe Pat, Dusty and our own Troy would like to help out Stace and address some of the real issues of the Tea Party inspired and spineless GOP leaders (JT and KN) have inflicted on veterans and the economy.
pssst....guys and Kristi...Google Sgt. Joseph Peters...then get back to us on how taking the country hostage is a good idea.
Not enough to get you off the pettiness you want to inflict on the public...Google this one. House Gym remains open in shot down.
Save your outrage DWC...Troy should be ashamed that he is signing on to this form of governing.
*shut*
Good morning folks!
@TG I stand on my own two feet, thank you very much. I also stand on my record of being an actual voting life long conservative Republican. One of my supporters, helping with signs, is also a supporter of Congresswoman Noem, and is putting her signs up with mine, where folks allow.
@Jana et al, I do not support this political brinksmanship game. There is one side who has used the debate over one program, to shut the government down. They have refused to consider bills to fund our government to cause this mess. Historically in the past? Our government agencies were funded individually, which IS a practice that our Congress should get back to. President Obama will negotiate with terrorists and enemy countries; however, he refuses to lead our country and negotiate with duly elected representatives of the American people? Sorry folks, the facts speak for themselves who is holding this country hostage and you cannot blame the "Tea Party" as it is a "party" in name only. Here in SD? Aside from the staunch partisan liberal views on here? This is hurting the already embattled & endangered SD Democrats, and I say that with no enjoyment. A weak Democratic Party hurts the Conservative cause, as political opportunists who have liberal leanings depart the Democratic Party for the GOP to get elected when your party is weak.
what a crock.
Still getting your TRICARE benefits, Stace?
Wait a minute, Stace: you're doing a good job of playing Ted Cruz here, turning away the main question by turning to the "Blame Democrats" defense. But your contract says that you support holding the budget hostage to defund the Affordable Care Act. If presented with a short-term continuing resolution to reopen the federal government in its entirety and allow Congress to negotiate a more detailed long-term budget deal out from under the current emergency situation, you would vote no on that resolution and maintain the current shutdown, correct?
The cost of Tricare for a family, for a year, is $460:
http://www.npr.org/2011/06/07/137009416/u-s-military-has-new-threat-health-care-costs
John Boehner isn't keeping the deal he made with Reid and lacks the spine to lead the House Republicans. The country should finally see how unreasonable the Tea Party is, hopefully before it's too late.
The Republicans embraced Evangelicals and now the Tea Party. Who's running the asylum?
@IP Tricare was an active duty military program, so the answer is no.
@CAH No, I blame two people Harry Reid & President Obama. I do not accept the conditions that it has to be all or nothing, that is not the way our government has to be funded, and it has not always been so in the past. The omnibus bill is what has helped create the out of control federal spending & government that we have now. My understanding is that there are separate bills to fund departments that have been offered, and refused to be taken up. That it the reality. Who is refusing to take them up? Who is saying they are refusing to negotiate?
The closing of our national monuments & parks, paying guards & park rangers to enforce the closers but not allow access? That is coming from the President.
Does anyone on here really think this administration, the current tactics, are good for the SD Democratic Party? Or the American people?
My dad and mom enjoyed Tricare benefits until they died. Former Sec. Gates believes it should be the template for universal health and medical care.
closures..
Again, Reid made a deal with John Boehner they would not dispute the debt ceiling, but Boehner is afraid of his Tea Party members. The Tea Party (and some of the Republicans) can try to spin it around, but people aren't that stupid when they learn a few facts.
No Stace. It's the Republicans that are holding our country hostage.
The President shouldn't negotiate a law. If you want to change the ACA then due the way it's supposed to be done. Pass a clean CR and then we can have a discussion (even though this has been talked to death since 2009).
Republicans ran against the ACA in the Presidential election and lost. People want this.
No Stace what the Tea Party is doing is BS.
The tea party is to blame for the shutdown. These folks are as dense as dense gets. The serenity prayer comes to mind:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
The tea party legislators lack both serenity and wisdom. They know they don't have the votes in the senate to undo Obamacare. They know that even if they could get it through the senate their bill would be vetoed, and they don't have the votes in either the House or Senate to overcome a veto. But here they are after 40+ attempts to repeal Obamacare and they keep tilting at that windmill.
Boehner is to blame for the shutdown continuing. If he put a clean continuing resolution up for a vote it would pass the House with bipartisan support. Wouldn't get that many republicans, but enough. His caucus would probably vote to replace him as speaker though. So in essence he is prioritizing his own ambitions above the national good. Boehner is saying that his job is more important than the jobs of the 800,000+ that his caucus has put out of work. He is holding the whole country hostage so he can keep his job as speaker. This would all be over if he would simply hold a vote on a clean continuing resolution.
We negotiated on the ACA in 2009 and 2010, when we took the public option off the table and adopted mostly what used ot be a Republican plan. That battle is over and done. Let's restart the government in its entirety, not in a piecemeal fashion that will inevitably create snarl-ups and snafus, and stop governing by hostage crisis.
Mr. Nelson, I will say this, that at least you are willing to give your take on your stand which is much more that we could ever expect from your opponents big Rounds and little Rounds. So as you are defending your position, I would ask this. If you are so sure of the blame of the Democrats and in particular, President Obama, why would you not support a vote on the house floor for a clean CR? That would put your theory to the absolute test with the answer to the dilemma that we folk here in South Dakota and America herself would like satisfied. In fact, I would argue that as you and the rest have defended NOem to that point of solidarity, you three or at least you, could publicly suggest a House vote to settle this thing one way or the other. In other words, we would ask "Prove it".
Well said Jerry. Boehner should put the senate's clean CR up for a vote and we will see clearly who is for the shutdown and who is not. I wonder how Rep. Noem would vote?
Here is the story on this from KELO TV last night. M. Mike Rounds wants an open market (meaning what????) and Bosworth wants to get rid of Obamancare and replace it. (With what???). Weiland is the only one talking sense.
http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/the-evolving-issue-of-obamacare/?id=154300
@Owen Please cite the law that says our country MUST pass an omnibus bill for every spending program. There is NOT one. President Obama & Harry Reid have decided to hold the whole country hostage over this one program that they believe they have the power to dictate to the whole US Congress on how it will operate. If you are correct, SD Democrats will be able to field a whole slate of candidates for every office up for election & Obama surrogate Wieland will explode with facebook & twitter followers today. President Obama and Harry Reid control the Senate & White House, refuse to negotiate but it is the amalgamation "Tea Party" that is the problem? Come on..
@CAH There is nothing permanent with legislative issues. Everything is open for amending, repeal, etc. This Congress wants the single issue of Obamacare addressed, the President believes he has dictatorial powers to shut down our government and has done so.
@John With all due respect to Speaker Boehner, to hell with "his deal." He is one of many and each legislator should vote as they deem fit, not as they are told.
@Jerry I do not blame all Democrats for this mess, I primarily blame the President of the USA. Congress is supposed to have their differences and hash out legislation; however, for the President to intentionally shut the government down, turn security guards/park rangers after the citizenry? That is not leading this country for the best interests of all, that is brazen partisanship and an absolute lack of leadership for our country.
@Stace. The ACA is the law of the land. You're right everything is open to amending, repeal and so on. But do it the way it's supposed to be done, don't shut down the government.
If you want to see bipartisanship then Boehner should let a clean CR come to a vote.
Weiland (check the spelling) is no more surrogate to Obama as you are to Cruz.
Stace, last I checked, the House is who funds the Government. Do you remember when Boehner and Harry Reid sat down and made an agreement on a clean budget that was 79 Billion less than the Senate bill?
Here, watch this Jon Stewart clip to refresh your memory.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/jon-stewart-calls-out-republicans_n_4069528.html
Here's a little spoiler alert. The GOP has farted and is trying to blame the dog.
Stace, to echo my other worthy commenters, this Congress does not want the single issue of ObamaCare addressed. If it did, it would have passed a law through normal means repealing the ACA or replacing it with a viable policy alternative. That passage has not happened. Congress does not have the will to change ACA by normal means. That means that game is over for now. That does not excuse hostage-taking. President Obama is not asserting any dictatorial powers in carrying out the law of the land.
You win your Senate seat, get a working majority of like minded ACA repealers in the Senate, and you can get to work on gutting the ACA by normal Constitutional procedure.
So Boehner had a deal with the senate and reneged on it. No wonder the Democrats don't want to re-negotiate with him on the deal the Democrats already lived up to.
Stace, if you agreed to buy a car from someone and let them name the price, and you already paid them their price for the car, would you go back and negotiate further with them when they refused to give you the car you already bought and paid for? Now they want your firstborn child in addition to the money. What would you do, Stace? So do you capitulate and hand over your firstborn child? Should Obama be Churchill with the deal-reneging Republicans or should he be Neville Chamberlain?
Stace says: "@John With all due respect to Speaker Boehner, to hell with "his deal." He is one of many and each legislator should vote as they deem fit, not as they are told."
EXACTLY! Hold a vote on a clean CR and each legislator can vote as they deem fit, not as they are told. Boehner is the Speaker of the House, and he schedules the votes. Stace is calling on him to hold a vote on a clean CR so each legislator can go on record. Amen Brother!
This isn't about budgets or funding levels or funding parts of the government or about negotiating with respect to any of that. If the Republicans wanted to do that they would have selected conferees months ago, and had ongoing negotiations in the way our government is supposed to operate.
This strategy is a fascist inspired (Koch et al.) create so much chaos that the fascists can overthrow the democratically elected government. They have a plan and it's to end democracy.
That's a good one Rorschach. They want it both ways. Let 'em vote. At least the Dems are finally standing their ground. You can't reason with the Tea Party. In a recent poll Congress approval rating at 5%. It's getting so bad why would anyone want to be a part of it?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/congress-approval-rating_n_4069899.html
Why isn't anyone asking the questions that should be asked. Owen came close. "Mike Rounds wants an open market (meaning what????) and Bosworth wants to get rid of Obamancare and replace it. (With what???)."
First I have a story for you Stace.
Thanks to Christine Nycz for this analogy.
So, Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said “Yes”, indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes. So, a week later, there’s a soda machine.
Now imagine that Bill in accounting voted against the soda machine. He has a strong hatred for caffeinated soft drinks, thinks they are bad you you, whatever. He campaigns throughout the office to get the machine removed. Well, management decides “OK, we’ll ask again” and again, the majority of people say “Yes, lets keep the soda machine.”
Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine. This happens, lets say… 35 times. Eventually, Bill says “OK, I’M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED”, so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine.
What should we do???
Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the job.
Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to “Negotiate”, to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to his demand to remove the soda machine.
Now here we are Stace with what most would call a cluster starts with f and ends with k. Here is a question that could and should define your candidacy. What exactly would you do to change the ACA even if you could get it repealed? How would you help those people that the ACA is designed to help? Be specific and exact in your answers, after all it might be a great idea that nobody else has thought of.
This could be the springboard that your senate race needs to get out the vote not only for your party in the primary but in the general election. Just think about it. No pledges to get in the road of real solutions, and no talking points to get between you and your constituents. Just cold hard facts to back up your campaign.
No other candidate can say that, not even the sleazy Mike "open market" Rounds. The voters in this state would respond to a campaign like that. You know real answers to real problems. If you aren't ready to do this you will become just another "also ran," in the South Dakota history books.
The Blindman
Mr. Nelson, thanks for not answering the question and drifting into the rabbit holes of your mind. America faces real problems and from the looks of things, those problems come directly from you folks and the disjointed way you think. We may not be able to vote your party out of the game yet, but that day is coming. Until then, keep driving America into the ditch. After you get her good and stuck, we will pull her out. You guys though, another story. We may have to give you an anvil and a plank or make you listen to your new leader Cruz in an endless circuit. Me, I would take the anvil.
Good morning!
Looks like the messenger got a shot a couple times yesterday? How has this bitter approach helped the Democrats here in SD for the last 8 years? They are having a hard time fielding candidates for any of the offices because so many are so disgusted with this administration and the resulting outlook for Democrats is so grim in SD.
Ask any of my Democratic colleagues in the legislature, you will find that while I am the most Conservative, I am probably the least partisan, and I engage and support them in discussing the issues, even when I disagree with them.
I march to no one's drum, and I attempt to do the right thing regardless, I have proven that repeatedly.
Fact: Funding bills have been sent that would have funded the government (sans Obamacare) and kept the government from being shut down. Harry Reid & President Obama have refused to take them up and refuse to "negotiate" and have intentionally shut the government down.
Fact: more than 50% of Americans do NOT want Obamacare and see it as harmful to our form of government and our country.
Fact: Obamacare was pushed through by manipulating and "bending" the rules of Congress and without many having read the 2,000++ pages of the bill.
Fact: Congress is within it's right to hold the funding and debate that specific program.
Fact: While having shut the government down, President Obama considers it essential and has instructed security guards and park police to block national parks and monuments.
Blame the Tea Party, an amalgamation of concerned citizens that believe our government is going in the wrong direction, a group that has no binds, no structure, not a party in any sense of the word. Ignore what is causing the Democratic Party in SD to continue to lose relevance and support from South Dakotans. For all the hate and ignorant comments about the Tea Party by the liberal media, the ranks of those who are opposing the "more government" mentality are continuing to swell.
@Bill Repeal the bill, scrap it in its entirety and start over. Work with the Democrats in trying to build a consensus on free-market reforms, not government take over of our healthcare industry. The answer is NOT government run healthcare. In the face of the failures of the VA, SS & postal system, clearly the answer is not another government bureaucratic monstrosity.
@John Hess I don't, but I also cannot stand by and watch as this country I put my life on the line for, this country I love, is driven into the ground and my children and grandchildren's futures betrayed.
@Jerry it is asinine to stereotype anyone with such ignorant statements. Democrats have controlled this country for the majority of the last 4 years. Our country is in the worse state that it has ever been. Being a Conservative means I support tried and proven means of preserving individual freedoms, because that is what this country is founded upon. You believe that the government should take the freedom (money, labor, etc) from the individual and give to others that the government decides are more deserving. We rebelled against this type of tyranny to form this country where individual liberty is supposed to be protected from government intrusion and imposition. The plight of man throughout history is the imposition of more government on his liberty. Happy to be on the Right side of the issue of realizing that our current problems stem from too much government.
In closing, review my posts on here and review the responses. I respectfully came on here and engaged in the discussion. Note the acerbic comments, the plight of our country, and then note the declining influence of registered Democrats in SD. There is a correlation folks.
So, Stace won't be their nominee.
Not fact: "More than 50% of Americans do not want ObamaCare." Get past the labels, ask people about actual policies, and overwhelming majorities support all of the key policies of the Affordable Care Act except for the GOP-invented individual mandate.
Holding the government hostage to overturn a law cannot be justified on moral grounds. Nor can it be justified by appealing to the wishes of the majority.
Not fact: "The answer is not government run health care."
(A) The government via ACA isn't running health care. It is offering more health insurance, though even most of that expansion is being handled by private companies. The ACA is nothing like the socialization of health care that other countries have successfully undertaken.
(B) The answer is government-run health care for veterans. Rep. Nelson's role model Senator Ted Cruz ran into this same buzz saw this week as he advocated for a another piecemeal spending bill to repoen VA services. Senator Debbie Stabenow asked Senator Cruz if he was supporting full funding for a true government-run health care system. He was. I have yet to hear any Republican suggest that the best way to meet our obligations to veterans is to privatize and dissolve the VA. In at least some situations, even Republicans agree that real government-run health care is a good solution.
(The travails of the Democratic Party in South Dakota, rooted in local demographics and history rather than national political trends, is irrelevant to this discussion... which was originally about the wingnutty composition of the Nelson campaign team... but which remains more than tangentially related as we are talking about what their style of governance as embodied by Cruz, Paul, et al. would do to our country.)
"Bill Repeal the bill, scrap it in its entirety and start over."
Stace that's not an answer and you know it. I asked for specifics and you give me talking points. Now what the hell would you do differently to get insurance to those that will be covered under ACA.
"The answer is NOT government run healthcare."
That's what we have now and it aint working.
I find you lack of answers troubling. Is this how you would be a senator for this state? You talk about being a man that "I march to no one's drum, and I attempt to do the right thing regardless, I have proven that repeatedly." Then prove it by giving answers to real questions that your future constituents have.
My only thought right now is that you have no answers. Could that be, is that true?
I grow tired of the people that want to repeal ACA that don't have any answers when asked questions. If you cant hunt with the big dogs get back under the porch. Any dog that didn't hunt around here didn't stay here very long.
The Blindman
@CAH I can assure you, the vast amount of the thousands of South Dakotans I am seeing and talking to on the campaign trail, do not want Obamacare. Lost count of the stories of people being dropped from insurance coverage because of it, or costs going through the roof, because of it.
A. Now you are playing semantic games. The end result is the same, the government involved in our healthcare, where it should not be.
B. Everyone who deals with the VA on here raise their hand (Mine is up!) I pay for my Blue Cross & Blue Shield insurance for myself and my family because of the problems I have experienced with the VA. It would be cheaper and our veterans would receive better health care if we simply covered their local access to healthcare. Where it becomes difficult to compare such circumstances are when we discuss combat related expertise that is missing in local healthcare (ie PTSD, amputee expertise, etc.)
Au contraire mon frère! You know very well the end result of any debate is the impact on the targeted audience. The end result here in SD is that this issue is further eroding the support for the Democratic Party as a whole, that national issues playing out have done so consistently here in SD since 2010. There is a direct correlation to what is going on nationally and the current travails of the SD Democratic Party.
Democrats are fleeing South Dakota leaving the inbred to govern and those disgusted with single party rule register 'independent' to select nominees without rhyme or reason: red state failure on parade.
Even if the VA was free to me, I'd never go there. I have enough docs in the family to tell me how horrible that place is that I wouldn't step foot in it. You think it's a pain getting a procedure approved and paid for through your insurance.....try doing that with the government.
@Bill Because I tell you the answer is not the government running our healthcare, you say it is not an answer. And yet, we used to have a healthcare system that was the envy of every civilized country in the world and the government did NOT run it. My answer is and remains getting the government out of our healthcare, and addressing the issues that are causing the costs to sky rocket. Upon repeal, Congress should pursue careful consideration & develop targeted solutions to address practical problems in the health care system based on the principles of personal ownership, consumer choice, and free markets to include Tort reform, addressing price gouging on pharmaceuticals (check out costs here and costs internationally for same item), etc., etc.
Just because the answer is not what you want (socialized medicine) doesn't mean it isn't an answer.
P.S. Bill that is not true, we do have government run healthcare and that is the problem. We have a government that has allowed 12 Million people here illegally that hospitals must treat. Those bills are then passed on to the tax payer, or insurance companies. Making our healthcare more government ran is NOT the answer.
Curious that Stace chooses to avoid the GOP blog.
Making anything more gov't ran is not the answer, unless your ultimate goal is a bloated bureaucracy full of unneeded waste.
DB shows what gets me so mad about Nelson's and others' misrepresentation of the Affordable Care Act as "government-run health care". It allows them to dodge the discussion of real policy details (like how the ACA will save my family and many others big money) and bleat the standard abstract platitudes about how government is bad. Knock off the abstractions! The ACA is a series of concrete policies that, as I documented above, a majority of Americans want. Those policies will also do a lot of concrete good and provide one more counterexample to DB's thoughtless government-bashing.
So if I don't buy health insurance....I get fined from the gov't or they force me to pay for it. Sounds like the gov't is running it to me. The ACA does little good for a select number of people, all the while folks like me who went to school and are starting out in life get to pay for it all. We seem to be the ones footing all the bills for the problems of your generation.
Very good your position on health care and how empty those positions actually are. You are against a government healthcare program, thanks for your clarification that you would eliminate Medicare and Medicaid. Most of us with clear thinking were able to understand your position on that.
Now that we know that, what would be your solution to it? Tea party types are full of happy talk about problems but your only solutions are tax cuts and larger government. How exactly would you change Romney Care and Obamacare, opps, they are the same? How would you sir?
Semantics, Stace? Involved vs. run? If it's a meaningless semantic difference, then why don't I hear you saying "ObamaCare is government-involved health care?"
Speaking of semantics, try out the crux of the LA Times report I cite above on Americans' support for ACA policies. Instead of asking people "Do you support ObamaCare?" ask them "Do you support tax credits for small businesses to buy insurance? Tax credits to help families buy health insurance? Closing the Medicare drug benefit doughnut hole? Extending of dependent coverage to offspring up to age 26? Expanding Medicaid? Banning exclusions for preexisting conditions in insurance policies?"
And sheesh, now we throw in illegal immigration to distract?
Let me repeat and elaborate: The Affordable Care Act does not create a system of hospitals run by the government, doctors hired and fired by the government, or medical decisions made by the government. The ACA expands citizen access to a still largely private health care and health insurance system. I know that takes more breath than "government-run health care!", and that's the disadvantage we Democrats face in tackling Republicans willing to play word games, but it's the truth.
@CAH The ACA is NOT saving money! My rates have gone up as other people's have!
53% of Americans do not approve, I would say that is higher in SD: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/16/usa-today-pew-poll-health-care-law-opposition/2817169/
The ACA is an abomination of an explosion of government in our healthcare system. It was passed with many of our elected officials having NEVER READ THE BILL.
Ignoring that this is probably the singular issue, that is hurting the SD Democratic Party, does not make it not so. Pushing for more government, when people are seeing the effects of too much government? Is a fools' errand, if I am wrong? Please cite the slate of Democratic candidates for next years elections...
"My answer is and remains getting the government out of our healthcare, and addressing the issues that are causing the costs to sky rocket."
Stake your party had that opportunity for twenty years and didn't do anything about the rising problems of healthcare. Meanwhile the crisis continued because you wanted things to remain the same.
I'll try this one more time. Address the issues Stace, how would you change things to make it better. We can go round and round on this until you are willing to give us your exact ideas on how to fix the problems as you see them. Without your ideas we just have to assume that you don't have any answers and that you would prefer that healthcare stays the same as it is now.
There is nothing worse then a politician that doesn't have answers to simple questions when asked. Say something, anything to show that you are not just another person looking for an office to pad your pocket book.
WTF Stace I saw you as a man that had some idea of how you wanted to fix a problem, I guess not.
The Blindman
"Ignoring that this is probably the singular issue, that is hurting the SD Democratic Party, does not make it not so."
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
"Pushing for more government, when people are seeing the effects of too much government? Is a fools' errand, if I am wrong? Please cite the slate of Democratic candidates for next years elections..."
Not relevant. This is a red state that is controlled by the GOP. Why are you preaching to me about what the Dems are doing?
For the record I have never voted a straight ticket in my life.
The Blindman
"The Affordable Care Act does not create a system of hospitals run by the government, doctors hired and fired by the government, or medical decisions made by the government."
BS....They just pick what docs and practices can do the business and push the rest out of the industry. You can bet it is only a matter of time before their restrictions on private practices rendering services works it's way to restricting doctors to what they can do on patients. You have one thing right, the ACA expands access for many people on the backs of the younger working class.
@Stace. Then how are you going to fix healthcare Stace? Maybe we should leave it the way it is/
The GOP is diverting attention from costs of at least one illegal war and creation of a new bureacracy:
https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-budget
What is a couple of bucks to you DB as you have "Docs" in the family, no problems. If you get a dread disease, they can treat you in the living room at yours and their convenience. I will tell you this about your family docs, they are entitled to their opinions regarding the VA. Me, I have been treated there since I got shot a few times back in the olden days, late 60's. The military docs saved my leg and for that matter, my ass. I have been treated there all my adult life because I cannot have the choice you have until now. I am one of those pesky critters that does not qualify for health insurance because of my conditions. I find the same good quality docs in the VA system that I have seen and known in the private sector. A lot of them come to the VA because they have more "freedom" to have shared clinics with like docs. In other words young doctors can actually have the time to raise a family and keep being a doc. What a concept! By the way, I have even let them tickle my heart all the while they were singing the song "You broke my heart, kinda sorta, when you stepped on, my aorta", oh the fun we've had. Of course, I was under the gas man at the time, but I think I still remember that.
Now don't be so spoiled. You can have whatever way you want, just do not begrudge your fellow Americans who seek to live just like yourself. Allow them the dignity to their American right to good healthcare just like the government provided in the 1700's, after our Revolutionary War, for veterans of our military. History, that is just another one of the tea party shortfalls, sigh.
bureaucracy created by the arms dealer to the world.
South Dakota does not have rigorous competition. If I'm right on this, the only insurance companies on the exchange are Avera, Sanford, and Physicians. BCBS told me they are waiting for the bugs to get out before they put their plans on the exchange.
BCBS did not change their rates on my current policy and remain cheaper than the plans on the exchange, but they were cheaper before too so I don't know for sure what effect the exchange had on the prices of the other plans.
I thought Cory's earlier post made it seem like companies from other states will be able to put their policies on our exchange. That should help!
The exchanges encourage competition. I thought Republicans liked that! There has been so much misinformation about Obamacare the public really doesn't know what to expect, especially when the Tea Baggers and Republicans as a whole don't tell the truth. Honesty doesn't seem to matter any more.
"BS....They just pick what docs and practices can do the business and push the rest out of the industry."
That's already going on DB. My wife has Sanford insurance and when she was diagnosed with breast cancer the only place she could go was Sanford.
She had to beg to go to an Avera hospital that was closer to our home.
Will the ACA fix that. Unfortunately not. Avera and Sanford are 2 of the 3 insurance companies in the exchanges.
Jerry, your generation created that environment and mine is expected to fix it and pay for it. Spoiled? Is that what we call hard working educated Americans willing to invest in their future? You can keep that sub-par care, but I will never subject myself to it. The docs I have in the family wouldn't work on a patient outside the hospital, nor would I expect them to. I just have a lot of insider knowledge of the crap they have to go through and how the ACA is just going to make things worse. It will makes things better for some, but why should I be forced to support it? This cradle to the grave mentality is a crock. Life's not fair and not everyone deserves the same things in life. End of story.
"That's already going on DB. My wife has Sanford insurance and when she was diagnosed with breast cancer the only place she could go was Sanford.
She had to beg to go to an Avera hospital that was closer to our home.
Will the ACA fix that. Unfortunately not. Avera and Sanford are 2 of the 3 insurance companies in the exchanges."
So your insurance company dictates what provider you can use.....Can you see how that is different from the gov't deciding which resources a hospital can use? You are subjecting yourself to that situation, whereas, the hospitals have no choice in the matter with the gov't.
but the government isn't deciding what hospital you're going to. If Blue Cross Blue Shield were in the exchanges you could go where you want .
Maybe if the hospitals could negotiate with the government prices would go down.
Thank you DB, that was moving. Yes, my generation, like yours, has many dark places that we have gone. Our brightest though has been the repeal of the Jim Crow acts, the desegregation of the schools, the trip to that thing in the sky and beyond. The list from my generation far outweighs our dark stains as we have striven to better not only America, but also, our world. By the way, when General Giap recently passed away, I sent condolences. This came from one warrior to another. My generation was still taught respect and not to be afraid, you should pick something like up and put it in your quiver and stop blaming everyone for your own issues.
"but the government isn't deciding what hospital you're going to."
The gov't is deciding what lab your hospital sends it's tests to. The gov't is deciding what pathologist can review your dead corpse or diagnose your cancer. The gov't is forcing old doctors out of the industry because they are not willing to invest their entire net worth to save their practice that won't see a return for 40 years.
I'd rather see the bloated hospitals reversed so we have caregivers running the place rather than a bunch of pencil pushers. Why is there so much paperwork?....because we created that environment. We are the generation of liability. There is always someone to blame and money to take so we spend more money covering our butt than we do actually performing the work.
We no longer perform Test A to see if more tests are needed. We run Test A-Z because if we don't and one happens to show a result, we lost. There is getting to be so much waste it is ridiculous. Either pay up front, or risk the chance of getting raped out back.
"stop blaming everyone for your own issues."
I have none until I am forced to pay for yours.
"Medicare trustees said recently that the program's hospital insurance trust fund will be insolvent in 2026."
Will you be ready, DeeBee?
The primary difference in DB's scenario is that the government is us. If anyone is running health care, I'd rather it be us, not private corporations. Stace's team has a lot of libertarians who think the primary enemy to their liberty is government, but they miss the greater threat to our liberty posed by huge, wealthy private corporations.
"Will you be ready, DeeBee?"
Been planning on that since I was 22. Started a long term health savings account and currently have 2 retirement accounts for when SS goes away. The only thing I have to worry about is all that being stolen away from me in the name of helping someone who supposedly deserves it more.
If that's the truth than wrecking the market would really suck for you, DeeBee: don't let your party poop on it.
My government sent me to war. I got shot, bad luck for me. I did not shoot myself, good luck for me. So, I am winner on that? That sounds like a tea party hero, Charlie Sheen in his description of winning. Here is something that I find appropriate to mention to you DB and I hope that you can understand the meaning.
"If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too" "not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013
I happen to believe that for those that went before me, as well as those that have gone after me. What say you, will you continue to support a party that has and is turning its back on those that have given you the freedom to complain? Or will you keep blaming us and those you deem inferior for your shortcomings as that is the tea party way.
"If that's the truth than wrecking the market would really suck for you, DeeBee: don't let your party poop on it."
Which is why I wanted it to crash in 2008. It would have been a good lesson for your generation.
The rule of law beats the hell out of civil war any day.
http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts/blog/2013/10/marketplace-everyone-deserves-options.html
you're committing plagiarism if you don't attribute the quotes you're lifting.
Jerry, I'm not saying that is your problem, it's your generations problem. You guys created these Cadillac programs that took a little from your check throughout your life, but still wasn't enough to cover what you needed. When they go insolvent, you will look to my generation to meet the needs you failed to meet. Whether it is because the projections were wrong, you stole from the programs for other needs, or they were just stupid ideas from the beginning.....I will be expected to clean up the mess and you will expect to not have any sort of inconvenience because of it. Far as I am concerned, you guys made this failing bed and you can reap the rewards.
DB, Okay, lets address these one at at time. What specifically are your referring to with "Cadillac programs and the small amount taken from your check?
Crazy right winger: "The rule of law beats the hell out of civil war any day."
They have us out-gunned, John: they're frothing and gnashing their teeth over at DWC. The Romans made up Jesus: now the GOP has Ted Cruz.
Larry used to be able to take some pride in being the fringe. He's being outfringed!
DB it seems like what we have here is someone that wants to reap the benefits and rewards of those that came before them but leave those same people out in the cold when it comes to government programs that they also paid for in both sweat and blood.
Lets just go back a couple of years and see what has been done so that you could live the way you want to.
WPA "Works Progress Administration"
Of all of Roosevelt’s New Deal programs, the Works Progress Administration (WPA) is the most famous, because it affected so many people’s lives. Roosevelt’s vision of a work-relief program employed more than 8.5 million people. For an average salary of $41.57 a month, WPA employees built bridges, roads, public buildings, public parks and airports.
Under the direction of Harry Hopkins, an enthusiastic ex-social worker who had come from modest means, the WPA would spend more than $11 million in employment relief before it was canceled in 1943. The work relief program was more expensive than direct relief payments, but worth the added cost, Hopkins believed. “Give a man a dole,” he observed, “and you save his body and destroy his spirit. Give him a job and you save both body and spirit”.
Programs under Eisenhower in the 1950s
http://books.google.com/books?id=KC4mTLVFT8IC&pg=RA2-PT203&dq=government+programs+under+eisenhower&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uvlWUpXTFoWQyAGjyICgDQ&ved=0CEcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=government%20programs%20under%20eisenhower&f=false
It's starting to look like maybe those that came before you actually did contribute something to not only your future but to your very existence. Without those programs the town you now live in would be Podunk USA. For all practical purposes you would have never had the chance to better yourself in life without those programs. Life would have stayed the same.
I asked Stace about some answers to questions on healthcare. I admit that I don't have those answers myself but you can bring the healthcare picture into clearer focus if you are willing to do some real research. You might even start by looking here.
Explains the cost of healthcare in simple language
http://books.google.com/books?id=y87KfZYxu1IC&printsec=frontcover&dq=John+Cogan+Hoover+institution&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zvZWUp3IGfDyyAGU-oDwDQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=John%20Cogan%20Hoover%20institution&f=false
Jerry thanks for your service, DB get a life. Instead of blaming those that came before you how about a little gratitude for the things they were able to give you, not because they were selfish, but because they were concerned about "the next generation."
he Blindman
Taliban leaders mock your tea party and all of you supporters of that fringe group. Here is what they say.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2013/10/09/Taliban-mock-U-S-over-government-shutdown-.html
Another proud moment at tea party central. Oh how I long for the days of sane, moderate, business like Republicans. I now seem to have to go to the library (if they have not closed it yet) to see pictures of these extinct creatures.
“Give a man a dole,” he observed, “and you save his body and destroy his spirit. Give him a job and you save both body and spirit”.
If only that rang true today. Instead, we extend unemployment benefits and give a person every reason not to work. I wish I could have lived during a time when people had pride in self-sufficiency and were willing to uproot their lives and travel to where the jobs are. Now, we feel entitled that the jobs should come to us or we shouldn't have to work. We are in the era of bailouts b/c we are too dumb to realize that when one company fails, 5 more step up to take it's place.
"Instead of blaming those that came before you how about a little gratitude for the things they were able to give you"
They didn't really give me anything if we are still paying for it today. They have evolved since then to set us up for failure.
And for the record, I am not a tea partier. Frankly, they disgust me as much as Obama who is making sure americans feel the pain of this shut down to use it to his best political advantage. We are all pawns in the game and Repubs and Dems will use us to their advantage. We have a leader willing to divide rather than try to unite. There is no bigger man in this conflict.
Bye then.
"They didn't really give me anything if we are still paying for it today."
My guess is that you never even read links I posted or you wouldnt be saying such things. But then facts dont seem to be your strong points either.
Obama tried a jobs act but it just didnt fly.
The American Jobs Act, does anybody remember that? If it had been passed look how much better we would be now. Instead neither the Dems or the GOP wanted to deal with the reality of "jobs."
Obama had this idea. The key provisions of the $447 billion bill. were as follows.
Cutting and suspending $245 billion worth of payroll taxes for qualifying employers and 160 million medium to low income employees.
Spending $62 billion for a Pathways Back to Work Program for expanding opportunities for low-income youth and adults.
$49 billion - Extending unemployment benefits for up to 6 million long-term beneficiaries.
$8 billion - Jobs tax credit for the long term unemployed.
$5 billion - Pathways back to work fund.[15]
Spending $50 billion on both new & pre-existing infrastructure projects.
Spending $35 billion in additional funding to protect the jobs of teachers, police officers, and firefighters
Spending $30 billion to modernize at least 35,000 public schools and community colleges.
Spending $15 billion on a program that would hire construction workers to help rehabilitate and refurbishing hundreds of thousands of foreclosed homes and businesses.
Creating the National Infrastructure Bank (capitalized with $10 billion), originally proposed in 2007, to help fund infrastructure via private and public capital.
Creating a nationwide, interoperable wireless network for public safety, while expanding accessibility to high-speed wireless services.
Prohibiting discrimination in hiring against persons who are unemployed because of their status as unemployed persons..
Loosening regulations on small businesses that wish to raise capital, including through crowdfunding, while retaining investor protections.
In total the legislation includes $253 billion in tax credits (56.6%) and $194 billion in spending and extension of unemployment benefits (43.4%
"The bill was stalled by Majority leader Harry Reid on September 27, 2011 who said "I don’t think there’s anything more important for a jobs measure than China trade." This was one of those times when Reid failed us.
There were parts of the bill that did see the light of day.
The "Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act".
At issue was a White House proposal to "work with the SEC to conduct a comprehensive review of securities regulations from the perspective of these small companies to reduce the regulatory burdens on small business capital formation in ways that are consistent with investor protection, including expanding 'crowdfunding' opportunities and increasing mini-offerings." The proposal had originated on January 31, 2011 as part of the President's Startup America initiative, and the JOBS Act included the requested provisions. The President signed the bill on April 5, 2012.
"Surface and Air Transportation Programs Extension Act of 2011."
The Surface and Air Transportation Program Extension Act of 2011 became a United States law when President Barack Obama signed the Act on September 16, 2011 (Public Law No. 112-30. The law extends taxes which fund federal highway expenditures through March and the Federal Aviation Administration through January. The extension of this act will, inturn, create many jobs for construction workers. That act has expired now.
Republican Louie Gohmert introduced his own "American Jobs Act of 2011" into the House as H.R. 2911. The bill would repeal the corporate income tax. Nothing new there.
It seems like Obama gave congress the tools to make jobs an important part of the recovery so why didnt it happen? That's simple because he wanted to fund it with taxes raised from those making more then a million dollars a year.
Now wouldnt you expect that those making more then a million dollars a year, and I might add the same people that were making money at a much faster rate then anyone else, would want to reinvest a part of that money to help those that didnt have jobs become productive members of this nation. In turn that would have spured economic growth by rolling that money over many times making the rich even richer. I guess not.
The Blindman
I think that all you know about a "Cadillac plan" that you mentioned was just something you hear from Rush or one of those other square heads. If you have something to defend, do so or don't bring it up.
Rounds is a moderate republican. Moderate republicans in Washington have proven over and over to be impotent in getting things done. The moderates are quicker to condemn and tear down true conservatives, such as Ted Cruz, than they are with the truly destructive forces within this Country, namely Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.
Stace, I like your comments on here. They are refreshing and they are true. So many people are brainwashed into hating the truth. It doesn't matter if one is well-educated or not, they are still susceptible to being brainwashed.
Rounds impotent? No surprise there but why does DD get a pass for being a moderate when President Obama, Sen. Reid and Speaker Pelosi are at least as centrist as Gov. Rounds?
"So many people are brainwashed into hating the truth. It doesn't matter if one is well-educated or not, they are still susceptible to being brainwashed."
Just like you Steven!