All I can say are good things.
That line came at the end of a hard conversation I had last night. That conversation was a lot harder for the person on the other end of the line, the person who may have been the last to communicate with Richard Benda on the day he died.
Don't ask me who. Just understand: it's a friend of Benda's, someone who doesn't want to be news. To this friend, Richard's death isn't news. It isn't politics. It just hurts.
To protect this friend's identity, I slip into a paraphrased first person. I take liberties with the wording but not the facts. This is what Richard's friend told me.
I met Richard through a friend he dated. He became my friend. He became my whole family's friend.
Richard visited often. He didn't talk much about work. He always talked about his daughter.
We never heard Richard talk about hunting or fishing. He never went out with my family to hunt. Why would he even own a shotgun?
Richard wasn't the type of guy to kill himself. He never spoke along those lines. He was full of life, always positive. I never saw him "down." He was an all-around happy guy.
I saw him the day before he died [Saturday, October 19]. We had lunch. Everything seemed fine.
The next morning, he texted me, said he was picking up his daughter from some weekend activity and taking her home to Watertown.
My family was planning a good dinner that evening. I invited Richard to come join us. Late in the afternoon, he texted back, said he couldn't make it. He said he was going hunting, and he'd bring back some pheasant.
That sounded odd for Richard. It sounded odd to my family. But I didn't see any warning in those words on my screen.
I sent him a couple messages, found it odd that he didn't reply, Sunday or Monday... but hey, business happens.
Thursday, October 24, I learned Richard was dead.
The following Thursday, October 31, investigators from the state came to ask me questions. They said they got my info from Richard's phone records. They asked me what I knew about Richard's work. They asked me if I'd heard that he'd been in any kind of trouble. I'd never gotten the sense that Richard was involved in any bad business.
The investigators wouldn't tell me much. I asked if they could at least tell me when Richard died. They wouldn't. They did say they were looking at his death as either suicide or a hunting accident. I told them that's bull.
But Richard... Richard....
All I can say are good things.
Those are the facts as Richard's friend tells them. That is the counterpoint Richard's friend offers to the accusatory epitaph South Dakota state government appears inclined to write.
All I can say are good things.
Would that we all could earn such remembrance when we are gone.
State Investigator: "We are looking at his death as either suicide or hunting accident."
Telling.
Thank you Cory for presenting a commentary on Mr. Benda's recent behavior. It has a ring of truth to it and should have been part of the Jon Ellis' profile in the Argus, which I thought was deeply flawed and succeeded in painting Benda as a reckless, depressed and threatening middle aged has been. Gleaning allegations from divorce files and compiling negative outlooks from people who know you socially, but not very well, from incidents compressed in a wide span of time doesn't take genius. I don't know Mr. Ellis, but I have to wonder what kind of discussion took place in his office among the newspaper's editors about what kind of depth, balance and accuracy went into the article that got published. I don't think that article was complete and should have included perspectives (named or unnamed) from people like your source, or it should not have been published until completed.
It reminds me of the loose talk and reporting done about the victims in the governor's mansion rape case and Gena Score's death at the hands of state officials. In both cases, there were attempts made to sour the public's perception of the victims so as to leave the impression that perhaps the girls brought things upon themselves. Those spreading that kind of talk were doing so to protect their employers.
I was disappointed in Ellis' article also. Everyone has messy relationships, and a lot of people can have issues with drinking. It's called life. Ellis should refocus and write a piece on Joop, as he's the character who is good at seizing other people's money and playing business man. What a crook!
Thanks, Rick! While I recognize the possible bias of Ellis's article, I admit that if I had had access to the court documents that Ellis gathered for his report, I'd have blogged the heck out of them. I thought Ellis did a good job of painting a picture with the sizable bucket of evidence he had available. I agree with you that there are many more buckets. There are narratives and counternarratives in the Benda story. We need to hear them all and see what hangs together as the most truthful final story.
What's interesting about his friend's account is that he's saying Benda didn't like to hunt, probably didn't even own a shot gun. And yet he cancelled a planned dinner suddenly in the afternoon to go hunt pheasant. I know enough about hunting to know that you don't hunt pheasant alone without a bird dog. A bird dog requires intense training and a lot of time so there is no way Benda would own a bird dog and never talk about hunting or own a shot gun. The logical suspicion of any decent investigator should be that Benda went hunting with someone else with more experience, someone else who liked to hunt. Also, most likely someone significant enough to Benda that he'd be willing to cancel a dinner date with a close friend to engage in an activity he didn't find very interesting personally.
That investigators would assume suicide or accident for a close range shot gun blast to the abdomen screams cover up. It makes me wonder who was important enough to Benda to drop already made plans and for state investigators to be willing to turn a blind eye in the investigation (or maybe that person wasn't important but someone in power didn't want to deal with the distraction of a murder investigation). The profile of the murderer should be a close connection of Benda's who is known to hunt.
Where is the weapon that was used? Who did it belong too?
Is it just pure irony that a man who didn't enjoy hunting would be investigated for double billing to a Shot Show in Vegas, and then die on a hunting trip by shot gun.
"I know enough about hunting to know that you don't hunt pheasant alone without a bird dog."
You know nothing about hunting. I hunt alone prolly 20 times a year, without a bird dog. I know many others that do the same.
Bree, there are guys that will go hunting alone and without bird dogs. It's not common, but I know people that have and some people actually prefer that rather than being with a group.
Okay, the hunting alone without a bird dog scenario is ruled out to not be bizarre.
Okay, maybe some people want to work that hard when they go hunting. Or maybe they have to because they can't train a bird dog properly. My father is an avid hunter (who can actually hunt and owns championship bird dogs) and he says its uncommon to go out pheasant hunting by yourself without a bird dog.
Small language check: Benda didn't "cancel a dinner date." The friend invited Benda over that day; Benda replied that he couldn't make it because he was going hunting.
It is bizarre for someone who doesn't like to hunt and probably doesn't own a bird dog to go out pheasant hunting by themselves. They wouldn't get any birds because they wouldn't know what they were doing.
Alright, I got the impression from the way it was worded that the invitation occurred earlier and the refusal occurred later. I read acceptance of the invitation in the wording that wasn't there.
*probably doesn't own a [shot gun]
not *bird dog* sorry.
It wouldn't be bizarre for a newbie hunter to go out alone and not realize at the beginning that he was hunting unproductively.
What is bizarre is that a happy, positive guy goes out hunting alone and ends up dead from an abdominal shotgun wound.
That is possible, Cory, I didn't think of that. But even then the fact that the investigators would say they were only considering it to be suicide or an accident considering the odd circumstances doesn't make sense to me. How can they consider both suicide AND hunting accident to be logical for a man hunting alone. They really thought he might have point blank shot himself accidentally in the stomach with a shotgun? And that was more likely than murder? Suicide is a possible explanation for a man hunting alone. But hunting accident at close range requires two hunters to be an explanation. So they weren't saying they were assuming he was alone, because they were considering a hunting accident to be possible. So why would murder be off the table as a possibility in a two hunter scenario.
"What is bizarre is that a happy, positive guy goes out hunting alone and ends up dead from an abdominal shotgun wound."
Yet, the week prior during his frantic phone calls to area lawyers would suggest a sad and scared man. Who's interpretation holds more water? It's not uncommon for those closest to a criminal to be the last to find out.
"Suicide is a possible explanation for a man hunting alone. But hunting accident at close range requires two hunters to be an explanation. So they weren't saying they were assuming he was alone, because they were considering a hunting accident to be possible."
What? Many hunting accidents happen while people are alone. In fact, we lost the DSU Alumni President earlier this year to just that.
"But even then the fact that the investigators would say they were only considering it to be suicide or an accident considering the odd circumstances doesn't make sense to me."
They never said "only"...which discredits this portion of your conspiracy as well.
DB, many hunting accidents involving a man shooting himself point blank in the stomach with a SHOT GUN occur? Seriously! He accidentally turned the shot gun around on himself until the barrel was touching his stomach and accidentally pulled the trigger! Come on DB. Wow.
DB "either" means "either." They were looking at his death as EITHER suicide OR hunting accident. Where is the implication that they were considering murder in a two hunter scenario. They had ruled it out, for no logical investigative reason I can think of.
Small correction - a TEXT (not voice) response came from Benda's PHONE (not necessarily Benda himself) that he was going hunting. The LAST thing to come from Benda's PHONE - BTW.
Good point Richard. I wonder if text messaging was common for him.
"DB, many hunting accidents involving a man shooting himself point blank in the stomach with a SHOT GUN occur? Seriously! He accidentally turned the shot gun around on himself until the barrel was touching his stomach and accidentally pulled the trigger! Come on DB. Wow."
Happens every year. Walking without the safety on, trip and fall, guns goes off striking you. You don't know the gun was touching his stomach, nor do you know angle.
"They had ruled it out, for no logical investigative reason I can think of."
Probably because you don't know what they know. I find a lot of fault in your logic up to this point.
This is so incredibly sad. I have been in this friend's shoes 8 different times. That's how many friends I have lost to suicide. If this was a suicide; and, I am afraid we will never truly know; this story from a friend is all-too-common. We aren't privy to everything that goes on inside a person's mind, where they are financially, in business, in their personal life; it is truly a subjective life we lead inside our own heads. I could repeat the same line of thinking that this friend has stated, "he was too happy; he was looking forward to the future; he couldn't have planned a suicide, we had just called me and asked me to dinner tomorrow!" But, unfortunately, it does happen, everyday. Some people don't understand that suicide ISN'T always planned; not everyone writes a note, gives away their prized possessions, reaches out for help for months prior. A lot of people who commit suicide make the decision in the moment; it's the hopelessness of the moment and the decision is made one moment and carried out the next. There are no warning signs and unless you are there in that moment of decision, you could never have stopped it from happening. This saddens me that he is gone and again, I know we will never know the truth. The important thing to remember is, whether or not he did it on purpose, those who are left behind need to feel comfort, to remember their loved one as they were before that moment, given encouragement that it's ok to want to believe it couldn't possibly be true, and they deserve our prayers and our friendship. I am sure he will be remembered by many for all of the positive things he did in his life and that's what is important.
Unfortunately, there is just so much we don't know. Did it look like Benda had crawled for help? Which side of the abdomen was Benda hit, how far into abdomen was the shot? Both sides have major vital organs, liver and stomach. It all sounds just so excruciatingly painful. A doctor could fill us in on gunshot wounds to the abdomen, and how long it takes to die. The autopsy report is not out yet. Any idea on when that will be publicized? And did the police take pictures?
The Attorney General has ruled this a suicide. Typical length of 12 gauge shotgun barrel for pheasant hunting is 24" -28" (according to hunting forum comments). Looking at pictures it appears that on most models the barrel ends a couple of inches or more before the trigger. That means that in order to commit suicide Benda would have had to hold his arms out at an angle in order to grab the shot gun turned around at his abdomen and grasp the trigger, around 26-30" from his stomach. The average length of a man's arm from shoulder to finger tip is 30". Squeezing a trigger you would lose a few inches of length. On top of that you lose length because the arms are held at an angle. In order to commit suicide Benda would most likely have had to press the barrel end of the shot gun against his abdomen to pull the trigger. At most maybe he could have held the gun away a couple of inches (That really sounds awkward and difficult to hold a shot gun like that but let's just say its possible.
In order for Jackley to declare Benda's death a suicide would require a very close entry wound to the abdomen. There would be limitations on the angle of the gun to the abdomen in order for both hands to support the weight of the shot gun and pull the trigger. In order for this to be a hunting accident by a man alone the scenario would have to be essentially the same in order to produce the same entry and exit wounds.
Now tell me again that it happens every year that a man accidentally turns a shot gun all the way around, presses the butt against his abdomen, grabs the trigger end of the shot gun, and accidentally pulls the trigger.
Jenny, I just want to add another possibility to your list of highly logical questions. Had the angle been upwards, after passing through the abdomen, the BB's could have reached the lungs or heart. Also, your spine runs the length of your body which can cause immediate unconsciousness and cause even the smallest wounds to allow you to bleed out.
And why don't we know what they know about the angle of the bullet holes and distance of the shot? Probably because said Rounds-appointed Attorney General hasn't released the death certificate yet.
I don't see how Benda could have possibly pulled the trigger if the angle was upwards. He wouldn't have been able to reach it - you cannot consider scenarios that are physically impossible.
I've noticed that a lot men will take relationship breakups badly, and will need professional help in a lot of circumstances. It is harder for men to voice their true feelings b/c in our society men are supposed to forever be strong and show no tendency toward emotions such as crying. When their hearts are broken, men will take a bad hit and have nowhere to turn to. You will see a lot of men (young men especially) distraught over breakups and ending up in the ER having suicidal ideations.
This is an unrealistic ideal for our society to have with men. Men need to be encourage to show their sensitive side.
It's easier to shoot yourself in the stomach on purpose than the chest or head.
" Squeezing a trigger you would lose a few inches of length. On top of that you lose length because the arms are held at an angle."
You wouldn't need to squeeze it, just push it. You gain length by angling the gun, rather than having it completely perpendicular to your body. Throw a stick in the mix and your entire theory is out the window.
"There would be limitations on the angle of the gun to the abdomen in order for both hands to support the weight of the shot gun and pull the trigger."
You don't need two hands to support the weight. Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut rather than prove your ignorance.
The idea that any investigator would consider a very close range shot gun wound to the abdomen, consistent with a possible suicide, to be able to be produced by a self-inflicted accidental shot is ludicrous to me. Which means they were also considering a two person scenario of a very close range shot gun wound directly to the abdomen, but only as a hunting accident. Now why would they consider a possible hunting accident involving two people, but not a possible murder.
"I don't see how Benda could have possibly pulled the trigger if the angle was upwards. He wouldn't have been able to reach it - you cannot consider scenarios that are physically impossible."
hahaha. This just gets better and better.
You should probably become a forensic scientist Bree with your vast knowledge on these topics.
I should have said men will often times fall into a depression over a breakup. (Shouldn't have said they will take a bad hit. That did not sound right)
"Now why would they consider a possible hunting accident involving two people, but not a possible murder."
How you derived this is borderline amazing. /s
In order to gain length the gun would have to be pointed downward. Another awkward, wierd, and illogical way to hold a shot gun during a suicide.
In the article, it was stated that Benda had been "shot in the side." The AG stated that Benda had died from a self-inflicted shot gun wound to the abdomen as a suicide (even the AG wasn't silly enough to say that could possibly be a self-inflicted hunting accident). And here's why I think the AG hasn't released the death certificate yet. Imagine the ludicrous supposition that Benda held the shot gun pointed at himself with one arm at his abdominal side wall (two arms not being possible at that point) and managed to pull the trigger at the same time - and that strange and unlikely possibility that Benda just wanted to die by shot gun in the most unusual way possible, one-handed self-inflicted shot gun wound to the side.
I'm sorry DB that you cannot comprehend that at the shortest length of a 12 gauge shotgun barrel end to trigger being 26", and arm length from shoulder to trigger knuckle being an average 28", that you cannot angle the shot gun upwards towards the heart and pull the trigger.
I should say shortest length of a shot gun used for pheasant hunting.
And average length of a man's arm to trigger knuckle.
DB & Bree~Well, I am not a forensic scientist, nor am I a physician but I am a Certified Nurse Practitioner. I can weigh in a little with the physiology of gunshot wounds; but, I would truly only be speculating about this specific incident since I don't have the autopsy report. Speculation is all anyone is going to be able to do at this point. I will say this though, you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a way to shoot yourself if you really, really want to do it..
You guys should go on the live blog at 100 eyes today in the Argus Leader website. They'll be talking politics, and will answer questions on any local SD political topic brought up. You would like it Bree. I think it's usually at around 3:00pm. Patrick Lalley is the one that moderates it.
"You don't need two hands to support the weight. Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut rather than prove your ignorance."
It would be entirely awkward and unusual to hold the heavy end of a gun 3 foot long out in front of you with one hand, and pull the trigger, with that same one hand, Mr. Male Genius.
And that's just it West River. It's quite easy to find a way to shoot yourself if you really want to. So why do it the hardest way possible. Maybe he also stood on one foot and hopped around while whistling Dixie as he shot himself with a shot gun with one hand, just to make it interesting. (My sarcasm is aimed at DB not you).
"I'm sorry DB that you cannot comprehend that at the shortest length of a 12 gauge shotgun barrel end to trigger being 26", and arm length from shoulder to trigger knuckle being an average 28", that you cannot angle the shot gun upwards towards the heart and pull the trigger."
No one is comprehending the crap you are throwing down.
"And average length of a man's arm to trigger knuckle."
Yeah because when you shoot yourself, you don't just push the trigger with the tip of your finger as that would make the most sense.
" I will say this though, you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a way to shoot yourself if you really, really want to do it.."
I would agree. I've been around numerous victims, only a few gun shot wounds though.
Leaning into a shotgun and reaching the trigger is an easy feat: the why remains the most intriguing part of Benda-gate.
"So why do it the hardest way possible."
Once again, how you come to these conclusions is borderline insanity. Heck, just thinking you can come up with these scenarios is borderline insanity.
"It would be entirely awkward and unusual to hold the heavy end of a gun 3 foot long out in front of you with one hand, and pull the trigger, with that same one hand, Mr. Male Genius."
And the stupidity continues.
Just because you can't comprehend something, doesn't mean no one else does DB. It is physically impossible for a man to reach the trigger of a shot gun angled upward at his heart, with his finger. I know DB. Maybe he took his shoes off and put the butt end in the dirt. Then he leaned his side on the barrel end, careful to angle the gun upwards at his heart, and pulled the trigger with his bare toes.
You have a point about the pushing with the finger tips as I was thinking backwards. However, that only adds two inches to his reach.
"Leaning into a shotgun and reaching the trigger is an easy feat: the why remains the most intriguing part of Benda-gate."
Exactly.
"However, that only adds two inches to his reach."
Imagine if he had the knowledge of primates who used sticks to get bugs out of holes.
"Just because you can't comprehend something, doesn't mean no one else does DB."
After viewing most of your arguments from the sidelines, and finally trying to talk some sense into you.....I don't think I am the only one who feels like they are talking to a brick wall.
DB, how do you hold a shot gun pointed at yourself with one hand and PUSH the trigger. And if you've already decided to die the agonizing death of shotgun to the stomach, why use one hand instead of two.
Bree, he didn't even need to hold the shotgun if he didn't want to.
Oh, ok DB. So he brought his bug catching stick with him along with his shot gun to go hunting, and used his stick to push the trigger of the shotgun aimed upwards at his heart through his abdomen.
Never mind that, as it has nothing to do with why the investigators would consider a hunting accident as a possible death (two hunter likely, one hunter unlikely) and not consider murder as a possibility. Only suicide, or hunting accident - not murder.
"agonizing death of shotgun to the stomach"
You guys watch too many movies. A close range shotgun blast is going to kill you quickly. Likely will be unconscious and adrenaline and shock will take care of most of the pain.
Bree--NO ONE can explain why people commit suicide in the manner that they do. I worked a case in which a man and wife told their kids they were going on vacation, rented a room in a motel, had their 'last supper,' barricaded the door and proceeded to eat rat poison and drink bleach and lysol and tape plastic bags over their heads with duct tape. It was evident that they had NO idea how horrible of a death it was going to be by how they looked, how they had self-mutilated trying to get the poison out of their stomach, and the fact that one died while trying to climb over the barricade most likely trying to get help....people DO choose to kill themselves in the most irrational ways you can imagine... a gunshot wound to the abdomen is not such a long-shot after reading this huh?
You do of course realize that pushing a trigger with your fingertips to shoot yourself with a shot gun would be more awkward than pulling a trigger, right DB.
"So he brought his bug catching stick with him along with his shot gun to go hunting"
He was in a tree belt. It didn't need to be aimed at his heart to be quick.
"and not consider murder as a possibility."
And you don't know that they didn't.
I am done here Bree. The level of stupidity that you continue to display is only hurting the group viewing this. I apologize that anyone who reads this is wasting their time and probably wishes they could get that back. I've dealt with more dead bodies being an emt and volunteer fireman than most people, and unfortunately have had a couple of friends take their lives. I've hunted all my life and have heard of some bizarre accidents.....but what do i know.
"You do of course realize that pushing a trigger with your fingertips to shoot yourself with a shot gun would be more awkward than pulling a trigger, right DB."
No Bree, it's not. I would love to hear this explanation. I bet it's a doozy.
I am saying West River, if he chose to shoot himself with a shot gun, why would he hold the shot gun and himself in awkward poses.
On the people who ate rat poison and bleach, did they imbibe it directly or did they pour it down a funnel, or lap it from a crystal goblet cascade? Were there unnecessary steps in the process? Did they hop on one foot on a table while throwing pieces of rat poison into the air and catching them on the tongue? Do you see West River, my point?
Bree~why do you want to believe he couldn't do it and that it wasn't a suicide? It seems that you have come up with many explanations and are very intrigued by this; but I wonder why you are?
It has to do with physics and leverage, muscle strength at certain angles, DB.
"It has to do with physics and leverage, muscle strength at certain angles, DB."
I have a minor in Physics and I can legitimately say you are full of shit. A gun pointed at you is not going to be easier for you to pull the trigger versus just pushing it. That's it. I'm out of this completely ludicrous and unintelligent conversation.
I am a logical person DB. The investigators said that they were considering EITHER suicide OR a hunting accident. A suicide involves one person. The wound is a close range shot from a shot gun to the abdomen. A hunting accident involving two people is much, much, much more probable than an accidental close range self-inflicted shot gun wound to the stomach. Why would the investigators consider the two person scenario of a hunting accident and not consider the two person scenario of murder. Why was this not investigated as a possible murder. Why has the death certificate not been released so that it can be examined by the press.
This has nothing to do with a "want to believe" anything. It has to do with logic and rational thinking. Why do you want to believe that Benda died by self-inflicted shot gun wound as a suicide, and are not concerned with the fact that the state investigators did not investigate this case as a possible murder?
Clearly you didn't take anatomy or physiology.
It would be easier to push with the thumb while holding the shot gun end, DB. That might be possible, but certainly not at an awkward angle.
Sorry. Me @11:55 was to West River not DB.
Using a shotgun rather than a gun or rifle. In his study of gunshot injuries in Mobile Alabama1, Riddick found that of those surviving a firearm suicide attempt, 80% used a handgun, 15% a rifle, and only 5% a shotgun. However, shotguns can be more difficult to aim into the side and back of the head, which are the most fatal points to aim . They do deliver much greater energy at impact though (meaning they can do more damage. Using a shotgun if aiming at the chest will also increase the chances of a fatal outcome due to the fact shot spreads out and can cause extensive damage even if not aimed quite correctly. Despite this, research by Frierson and SB Lippman1 on survivors of attempted firearm suicides in the US suggested that 80% of attempts were not pre-meditated (meaning they were generally done on impulse, rather than having been thought through and planned in advance). A reliable method coupled with not much thought is a scary combination, and one wonders if perhaps many of those using this method might not have gone through with it had they thought about what they were doing for a little longer <---(copied from a suicide site). Possibly, he wasn't aiming for the abdomen, maybe he was aiming for his heart...and the gun moved when the trigger was pulled...isn't it true that there is recoil on a shotgun and if you don't have a good grip due to angle, well, it will move...so maybe you should consider that the abdomen wasn't his choice
Why didn't the state investigators consider murder a possibility? Why hasn't the death certificate been released? Why, if only 5% of suicide attempts by firearm are committed with the shot gun, was suicide considered more likely than murder?
Why did the brother-in-law say it was "just a hunting accident" to the press, and then clam up?
I have to agree with West River. I spent over 40 years in emergency services and was on the scene of dozens of suicudes.
First, do not ever underestimate what the human mind is capable of convincing a person to do. A suicide can be well planned or spur of the moment. The method on spur of the moment suicides is often using whatever is at hand and the person thinks will be quick and final. I won't speculate how he pulled the trigger other than say there are several possibilities. Using a "long gun" is more akward but can be done. Some do the act at home or work others go to a remote area so they don't make a mess for the family and friends or run the risk of having children discover the body. The coroner's report will be a lot more telling.
I used to hunt pheasant without a dog. It is a little more difficult but can be done. I have also hunted alone. It does seem unusual for someone who is not known to hunt to suddenly go hunting. That may have been the indicator that he had made up his mind.
I wonder if the feds had questioned him and he felt he was being set up to take a fall? remember the state was told by the feds to look at the travel expenses. We won't know anything about the fed side until the grand jury is done.
Why did the brother-in-law say that about a hunting accident, indeed? If it was such a done deal with the suicide, why did it take so long to come up with that? Why the questions to the friend if it were so simple? Did Benda have a hunting license to begin with, where did he buy the shells and what about his gun, where did that come from?
If my memory serves me right Bree, bro/inlaw stated leaning against a tree with a hole in his side?
Yes Les, and a hole in the side combined with close range abdominal shot provides a very awkward suicide pose no matter how you think about it. If you want to go out in your hunting clothes, in a tree belt, hunting by yourself with little experience without a bird dog... and then on top of that rather than turning the gun around and holding it at a straight angle in front of you with both hands to pull the trigger... instead you decide to somehow manage through awkward pose to shoot yourself in the side with a shot gun. And this is all considered a more likely scenario by state investigators than murder, who state they are only looking at possible suicide or hunting accident.
And then we find out that in the course of his investigation Jackley never questioned Benda. At all. About the missing half a mil and travel vouchers. And then Benda dies, after calling lawyers frantically the weeks before he dies because he is under a "politically motivated investigation" (AKA the Feds).
My Benelli with a 28" barrel is 35" from the nasty end of the works to the trigger.
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At 61 years of life, I've seem my share of suicides. One out of the many shot himself in the abdomen with a .22 pistol in a "see how bad I'm feeling sorry for myself" episode. Another with a shotgun blew half his face off and lives 20 years later with the proof of his actions visible to all. One of the last and believe me at 61 there are many was a close friend who was very sick. Shotgun into the upper chest/neck area.
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While I'm not 100% with Bree by any means on this DB, you are out of your head if you think a gut shot in the side would be at all an easy task with a shotgun.
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If someone told the family friend it was suicide or an accident that early in the game, it could have been at least protecting the investigation and at worst a coverup or inept actions.
Exactly Jerry. The brother-in-law told the press it was just a hunting accident. That implies another person was with him. Whose gun? Where is the death certificate? Why wasn't Benda questioned by the state?
I should point out the .22 pistolier lived and was arrested at the scene.
,
I'm a little more interested in the 32 mil than the 550,000. That'd paint the fence and put a few more acres under my belt Bree. Or maybe go to the offshore island and sip margaritas.
In today's RCJ (Rapid City Joke), Bob Mercer's article reveals that state investigators never interviewed Benda regarding GOED/EB-5 or NBP. Mike Butler, Benda's attorney appeared to be in some form of negotiations with Jackley, but that was relative only to the double billing.
Interestingly, Mr. Mercer referred to 7 other items of the investigation that have not been revealed and presumably not a part of the Jackley investigation. Which would imply that Jackley's investigation is incomplete.
As the peasants we are, some of us think that $550,000.00 is somehow more than 32 million. Must be because of all the zeros Les. What is also amazing to me is that the Chinese and Koreans (why weren't the Ruskies invited in on this?) do not seem to mind the fleecing by Rounds and others, or did they?
I don't know I thought they were. Didn't Cory say the SDRC (or one its related entities) paid Russia?
I guess because the only thing the state was supposed to investigate so far was the half a mil... and they couldn't manage to even ask Benda about it. And now they say "woops.. oh well" they're not going to look into it.
And if the shot gun Benda was shot with was anything like Les' Benelli, it could very well be near impossible to shoot yourself with. I'd like the state to tell us the make and model as well as the scenario of death they have determined.
Roger -- here's the portion of Mercer's story to which you refer:
"The investigation came in response to a federal grand jury’s subpoena in March asking the governor’s office for eight sets of information.
The subpoena hasn’t been publicly released. Benda’s travel was one of the eight matters in it. The other seven haven’t been publicly disclosed."
Note that those eight sets of information are part of a federal grand jury subpoena, meaning its part of the fed investigation, not the state investigation lead, and apparently concluded, by Jackley.
Jackley needs to be impeached. I'm guessing that's something that can only be done by the legislature. Oh well.
Reports are the shotgun was found leaning up against a tree, who shoots themselves in the gut and has the presence of mind to lean the gun up against a tree?! Last thing on his mind after such trauma would be to do so. If he in fact did, as he was suffering, would he not then also have an impulse to try and call for assistance on his cell phone?
Sad and scary that I have no confidence in Jackley's ability to have had this matter investigated thoroughly..
Dave,
Thanks for the clarification.
If the grand jury is still investigating I wonder if the Benda death would now be a part of their investigation. I know there is no knowing that, just wondering.
Jackley most likely knows or can speculate the content of the other sets of the federal subpoenas. Which leads to the conclusion that Jackley and Daugaard were premature in their attempts to close both Benda's death and GOED/EB-5 investigations.
My first thought upon reading that Benda had texted his cancelation for dinner, was that possibly it wasn't Benda. Anyone can send a text from another's phone. Did it come from his murderers?
I think we can say that suicide is possible, though difficult and unlikely. (Gun against tree.) No murder investigation leaves a glaring hole in the AG's 'investigation'.
I wonder how many months or years it will be until AG releases details of his 'investigation' and the coroner's report? Years? He might feel a need to hang onto it to "protect the family".
Wow. Wouldn't that be pure crapola! He's obviously working pretty hard to protect several people, plus his own political ambitions. Government on the SD Republican Plan: AG -- Lt. Gov. -- Gov!
Let's make this clear....they did investigate the possibility of foul play.
"The autopsy, conducted by the Forensic Pathologist, Minnehaha County Coroner indicates that the cause of death was a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the abdomen and ruled a suicide. No physical or digital evidence has been found to indicate foul play. The investigation scene reconstruction, interviews conducted, evidence collected at the scene and forensic testing do not indicate foul play and are consistent with the forensic autopsy findings. The forensic testing included, but was not limited to firearm functioning, ballistic testing, DNA and fingerprinting."
Do you actually think Jackley can persuade people outside of his authority to agree to a cover up?
They told the person they interviewed they were only considering SUICIDE or a HUNTING ACCIDENT. They weren't looking for evidence to solve a murder. They somehow missed the fact that a shot gun wound to the side of the abdomen and the shot gun leaning up against a tree makes a pretty wierd suicide.
And Jackley just said that he never bothered to question Benda on the double billed vouchers or the missing half a million dollars. That's right.. over the period of months of a state investigation Jackley somehow FORGOT TO INTERVIEW THE KEY WITNESS to the missing money, and CONCLUDED HIS INVESTIGATION never having actually investigated anything.
Why should we assume a Rounds-appointed AG, clearly incompetent, would do any better of a job in determining the death of the man he forgot to investigate for fraud?
If we are to believe that Benda killed himself over 5 grand, then I would say this, 32 million buys a lot of authority, just sayin...
"If we are to believe that Benda killed himself over 5 grand, then I would say this, 32 million buys a lot of authority, just sayin..."
I don't either, but I could see it over 550k.
Does anyone know how tall Benda is? As soon as my husband gets home I'll measure longest possible distance from abdomen to trigger with finger tip for a 6 foot tall man. I will also measure longest possible distance from abdomen to trigger with finger tip at a side entry angle. Given Les' measurement of his barrel end to trigger at 35" we will start there. Does anyone have barrel to trigger measurements for different makes and models of 12 gauge shot guns used for pheasant hunting?
Why wouldn't the Attorney General ask Benda why he double billed the travel vouchers as part of his investigation DB? Who was getting their trip paid for with taxpayers money when it shouldn't have been?
DB - you think Benda killed himself over the $550,000 improper payment from NBP? How would he get his hands on the money DB. He didn't work for them, remember? He worked at the location, but that doesn't mean anything.
Bree, I have a Benelli Supernova and I took your challenge. I'm 6ft, and the only place I couldn't push the trigger was if the gun was pointed at my head. Anything below my sternum was easy. Side angle, no problem. I also did this with action removed.
"How would he get his hands on the money DB. He didn't work for them, remember? He worked at the location, but that doesn't mean anything."
I'll break it down for you one more time since you have trouble connecting the dots. The 550k was routed from NBP to SDRC where Benda was employed after leaving the state.
Basically, I'd be willing to bet 100 to 1 that Benda routed that cash to NBP from the state fully well knowing that he would be leaving for the SDRC. When NBP moved it to SDRC......that's when things began to look fishy.
Length from barrel to trigger of your Benelli Supernova.
Um.. DB you spend the previous thread stating that Benda wasn't connected to NBP. Now all of a sudden he magically "routed" the cash through NBP to SDRC... He didn't work for NBP, remember DB. How did the cash get from NBP to SDRC. It wasn't Benda. He didn't get paid by NBP.
"How did the cash get from NBP to SDRC. It wasn't Benda. He didn't get paid by NBP."
Now, you know what the feds are investigating. Benda didn't work for NBP is correct. He was employed with SDRC. Now, if that money originated with him in the state which went to NBP....he leaves for SDRC.....NBP gives SDRC a kickback which ends up in Bollen and Benda's pockets. You see the issue there?
"DB you spend the previous thread stating that Benda wasn't connected to NBP. "
Once again you get it wrong. I never said he wasn't connected with NBP, I said he was employed by SDRC, not NBP.
I see that it has a 28" barrel and weighs 8 pounds. Since it's a Benelli like Les' I'll assume a 35" length.
I was surprised to see that I only had an 18" distance from abdomen to fingertip. But I'm 5'8" and pregnant. Better wait for my husband.
Right DB... So how does a man who doesn't work for NBP, write a check from it????????
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Bree, you ever stop to think you can lean a little and press the gun against yourself? You aren't going to be able to do any so-called tests without a real weapon, or at least a stick to be able to see how you can move your body to reach the trigger.
"Right DB... So how does a man who doesn't work for NBP, write a check from it????????
Are you being deliberately obtuse?"
I doubt he wrote the check from NBP....why do you think NBP is also being investigated? The possible issue is he made funds available to NBP through the state, fully well knowing it would eventually go to SDRC where he would eventually reside.
LOL LOL LOL LOL
"fully well knowing it would eventually go to SDRC where he would eventually reside."
How.
Well I'll have access to plenty of shot guns at Thanks Giving to have my husband test. However if my reach is 18".. let's make a wild guess and say my husband's is 25". No amount of leaning and stretching is going to make up for that difference. It would require some special effort, like butt on the ground and a stick. And then he would have to lean the gun against a tree afterwards.
And if you tested your SuperNova out in 8 minutes flat why can't you tell the length of barrel to trigger.
"How."
Once again, why do you think there is a federal investigation?
I'll lay this out for you one last time.
Let's say I work for the gov't and I have a few buddies in construction. I say "Hey, I'll get you some state funds and contracts since I am on the way out anyways....but in return I want you to give some of that money back to a company I am going to work for when I leave."
A month passes and I leave office and go to my private employer.....then i just wait for my friends to send the money over to myself.
Does that make it clearer? Do you see the fraud and enormous conflict of interest?
"However if my reach is 18".. let's make a wild guess and say my husband's is 25"."
How small are you? I'm 6 foot and can reach roughly 40 inches.
Finally, we mention that another human being, working for NBP, would have to be involved in the transfer of the money. It only took asking you over and over again.
"Finally, we mention that another human being, working for NBP, would have to be involved in the transfer of the money. It only took asking you over and over again."
I never said there wasn't someone at NBP involved, it just wasn't Benda. Ever stop to think why NBP and the CEO are being investigated?
5'8" and I'm pregnant, and I wasn't reaching. I will wait for my husband to get home and see how far he can stretch. I'm not doubting it's possible to shoot oneself in the abdomen with a shot gun, although it's starting to look like it takes some work. I am however dubious at the accomplishing that one-handed to the side. Maybe if the other hand that won't reach was used to help balance the barrel.
Of course, that doesn't address why a man who decided to commit suicide would in his despair go for the awkward one-handed side shot over the already stretched out uncomfortable front gut shot. Or the gun leaning against the tree.
No DB I never stopped to wonder if maybe the CEO was being investigated. Thoughts like that strain my mental capacity.
" I'm not doubting it's possible to shoot oneself in the abdomen with a shot gun, although it's starting to look like it takes some work. I am however dubious at the accomplishing that one-handed to the side."
Why does it have to be one handed to the side? Where did you pull that from?
Any adult of any height could shoot himself/herself anywhere in the abdomen with a shotgun, maybe excluding pregnant women. I just pulled out my shotgun and tested the theory, without shooting of course. Place the butt of the gun on the ground at an angle with the barrel in your abdomen. Bend over the gun and reach for the trigger while the barrel pokes you in the tummy. It can be done, and without any difficulty.
That a SD guy would own a shotgun is no surprise, even if he doesn't hunt much. That somebody would choose to go out pheasant hunting alone and without a dog isn't surprising either, though it's more common to go with other dawgs and at least one dog. I've hunted ringnecks alone on occasion. If Richard Benda suffered from depression he may have thought about suicide before and dismissed the idea. But at a weak moment with a gun at hand the idea may have taken hold of him and been carried out without any pre-planning at all, thus no forewarning to others. Very unfortunate. Richard Benda was a very likeable guy.
Okay DB. You tested your SuperNova. What is the length from barrel end to trigger. It would useful to have more than one shot gun to consider.
Rorschach, do you have to put the butt in the ground in order to do it? And can you manage a side angle shot to the abdomen by similar maneuver?
Roughly 36 inches. Thank you Rorschach for understanding what I am putting down. It's not difficult to do at all. When we hear more about the feds investigation, I think we all will find out that it wasn't just a few trips he was stressing over. I think we will see Bollen and someone from NBP with federal indictments.
Oh, and what would you estimate is the angle of entry to the abdomen doing it that way? Pretty straight in?
Bree, you don't think forensic experts went through all this?
The AG was tasked with a state investigation into the double billed vouchers and the $550,000. The AG never questioned Benda during his investigation. He completed his investigation, never looking into where the money went. He now says they won't look into it any farther since Benda is dead. The state is not interested in trying to find out where $550,000 went. I don't trust anything that Jackley says and I trust his investigation into Benda's death not at all, especially since the investigators told a witness that they were considering suicide, or a hunting accident.
I'm trying to imagine a scenario where you put the butt of a shot gun in the ground, shoot yourself in the side, and somehow the gun ends up leaning against a tree.
Rorschach, would a guy who doesn't particularly like to hunt and doesn't own a shot gun be likely to go out hunting pheasant alone?
His friend said he didn't think Benda owned a shot gun. Whose shot gun did he use then.
I think the big question for you Bree S is how in the world you are gonna convenience your sweety to stick a shotgun to his gut, oh to be a mouse in the corner.
"The state is not interested in trying to find out where $550,000 went."
And Jackley just released today why he wouldn't. It was being investigated by the feds because it is a federal program.
"would a guy who doesn't particularly like to hunt and doesn't own a shot gun be likely to go out hunting pheasant alone?
His friend said he didn't think Benda owned a shot gun. Whose shot gun did he use then."
That doesn't mean he didn't have one, and if I plan on killing my self it would make perfect sense.
Lol Jerry. My husband, who once jumped his truck off some 30-40 foot cliff is not going to be bothered by an unloaded shot gun to the stomach.
The money angle of this investigation is intriguing and is probably the focus of the federal jury investigation.
In the world of kickback schemes it looks like all the corporations created by NBP and SDRC were the conduit for money transfers. Cash and/or checks can all be completed and disguised. It doesn't really matter much who worked where, they could easily be a figure head for the sole purpose of distributing funds.
If the feds are going to get to the bottom of this, they are going to have to trace the money and see how and who got what portion and for what purpose.
What I don't know, is whether or not the federal EB-5 program has invested actual dollars in any of these schemes or if they only monitored them.
DB, I really feel you are being deliberately obtuse. When the Governor tells the AG to investigate something he's supposed to actually investigate. Not yawn and twiddle his thumbs and file paperwork and then say "Oh, I didn't investigate anything because the Feds are gonna." What a bunch of nonsense. And he couldn't even call Benda and give a report on why Benda double-billed those vouchers? We're not that stupid around here.
All I see is a power hungry politician trying to squeeze his way into the general, hoping the federal investigation doesn't take him down and give the seat to the Democrats.
I am roughly your size DB. I could make it happen in a side entry wound that would want to exit not much higher due to the angle of your body bent to reach the trigger.
.
That a non shooter could or would exercise that particular shot is extraordinary. I would question how either the gun or the body would be resting against the tree when done.
" When the Governor tells the AG to investigate something he's supposed to actually investigate. Not yawn and twiddle his thumbs and file paperwork and then say "Oh, I didn't investigate anything because the Feds are gonna." What a bunch of nonsense. "
You need a lesson in civics.
"We're not that stupid around here."
You keep giving me reasons to believe otherwise.
"All I see is a power hungry politician trying to squeeze his way into the general, hoping the federal investigation doesn't take him down and give the seat to the Democrats."
Because that's all you want to see.
The Democrats mentioned Daugaard naming an "independent special prosecutor." I think he absolutely should.
"I would question how either the gun or the body would be resting against the tree when done."
Depends on if he was conscious or not. Injured people tend to lean themselves up against something....tree or fence post. I just can't get past the fact that people think the medical examiners, pathologists, and coroner are wrong. You don't think they haven't considered all of this? You honestly don't think they thought to see if it was physical possible? You don't think they were able to tell how many shots were fired and by who? Everytime you pull the trigger it leaves behind something for investigators to find.
"The Democrats mentioned Daugaard naming an "independent special prosecutor." I think he absolutely should."
You notice how they didn't mention anything about the results of Benda's death? Even they aren't that stupid. They just want to see if they can tie it to Rounds.
DB. I'll just stick with the vouchers for simplicity.
The Governor told the AG to investigate the vouchers.
The AG discovered that Benda had double billed some travel vouchers.
The AG never questioned Benda about the vouchers.
The AG closed the investigation.
Now, the fact that you can't see what's wrong with this situation demonstrates whose got the vision problem here.
Um, DB. One of the travel vouchers that Benda double billed was for the 2010 Las Vegas Shot Show. Rounds attended that event. I read the state rules and although I'm not positive I don't think Rounds could have gotten a voucher for the show. Rounds has a history of charging the taxpayer for his personal travel.
I think this fed investigation can be tied to Rounds. Unfortunately the man who double billed the vouchers is dead now.
"Now, the fact that you can't see what's wrong with this situation demonstrates whose got the vision problem here."
Happens all the time. Why chase after someone for 10k in questionable cash when the feds aren't going to let you prosecute and screw up their case while they investigate 550k or even millions? Not worth the state wasting their money. He probably turned it over to them to include in their case. This isn't a stretch by any means.
Sigh. I said I was following the vouchers for simplicity's sake, Mr. Obtuse. Just so you know you are debating with the most stubborn tenacious female on the planet. You waste your time trying to deflect with me.
The AG also did not investigate the half a million. The only thing the Attorney General was tasked with investigating was the vouchers and the half a million. He investigated neither. He did not question Benda. He closed the case.
Bree. You ask if Benda would hunt alone if he doesn't particularly like to hunt and doesn't own a shotgun. I think you're assuming a lot here. Benda was the Secretary of Tourism & Economic Development. In that job he would have led a hunting team with dignitaries & business execs every year for the Governor's Hunt and probably several other times each year. He was a salesman & a schmoozer, and South Dakota's claim to fame are Mt. Rushmore and pheasant hunting. That he owned a shotgun I have no doubt.
Oh the state was saving money by not investigating the vouchers What exactly was it doing when it was prosecuting a disabled combat veteran for not putting an address on a robocall? The state spent thousands going after a $250 fine.
And that doesn't explain why Jackley didn't question Benda about the half a million before closing the case.
Rorschach, I'm basing that information off the interview with Benda's friend, the one who received Benda's last text message. That close friend told Cory that Benda never spoke of hunting, and probably didn't own a shot gun.
Rorschach, who are you supporting since Stephanie isn't in the race?
"That a non shooter could or would exercise that particular shot is extraordinary. I would question how either the gun or the body would be resting against the tree when done."
Les, I missed this. Since you checked it out I won't bother putting my husband through contortions. Assuming the witness testimony of a shot to the side, and gun leaning against a tree is accurate.. it makes the investigators dismissal of the possibility of murder very suspicious.
"And that doesn't explain why Jackley didn't question Benda about the half a million before closing the case."
I'm guessing you haven't read Jackley's press release today.
He closed his non-review in September. Now the federal authorities are investigating. His no information press release deflection doesn't change the fact that he NEVER INTERVIEWED BENDA before he closed his "investigation."
Who am I supporting, Bree? I'm waiting until the Democratic field of candidates develops further to determine who I will support. I do expect more Democrats to enter various races - including US House and Senate. I may support the candidates already in the race, depending on who else gets in. And on occasion, for some races, I vote for a non-Democrat. I do believe there are good people in both parties. But I will not vote for Mike Rounds again.
Hey, DB! I read it! The key passage relevant to Bree's statement here seems to be, "The Attorney General’s review of the alleged misconduct has been made public including a $550,000 future fund diversion to federal EB-5 loan monitoring. Because the EB-5 Program is a federal immigration program governed by federal law and run by federal authorities, the matter has been turned over to federal authorities."
With apologies to the friend of Richard who told me the story above, I divert to address DB's statement with an analogy. Let's see if it makes sense:
Suppose Governor Daugaard gave a grant to the Madville Times to promote journalism (crazier things have happened). The agreement we sign says Madville Times can spend the money on hiring reporters and buying computers.
I get Daugaard's grant, and liberal scum that I am, I divert more than half of it to a private company coordinating the implementation of HealthCare.gov. No reporters hired, no equipment purchased with that money.
In DB's world—and in the strangely real South Dakota world—Attorney General Jackley says, "This state money was apparently diverted to a federal program. It is thus up to the feds to investigate the misuse of that money.
In Cory's world, everybody shouts "Baloney!" The violation happened at the point when I didn't spend the state's money on what the state told me I could spend it on. It doesn't matter whether I diverted that money to a federal program, a Minnesota program, or a Kuala Lumpur program. I broke my deal with Governor Daugaard; Governor Daugaard should send his top cop to kick my butt!
And if Pat Costello (current GOED chief) was orchestrating a massive fundraising scheme to turn Madville Times into an engine of economic development, urged Gov. Daugaard to sign off on that grant, then went to work for the agency to which I improperly diverted a large portion of that grant, I would expect he would be a major person of interest in the state's investigation. Even if he was innocent of any crime, he could at the very least explain the byzantine financing of the grant recipient, which could be essential to understanding whether the diversion of funds was legit or not.
And with Richard Benda gone, Jackley has lost an opportunity to get important information about how NBP worked, or didn't... unless Richard left a diary somewhere.
"BP worked, or didn't... unless Richard left a diary somewhere." Richard left a diary Cory. We all leave tracks whether intentional or not. Forensics will get it if allowed and no personal diary is recovered.
146 comments and yet nobody has said much anything except WestRiver and WR Old Guy.
For my money the only thing that is bothersome in the least is the fact that the gun was leaning against a tree. The physical act itself presents a few small but easy to overcome problems. You set down on the ground, put the butt of the gun between your feet, reach down and push the trigger either with your finger thumb, or use a stick.
Like WestRiver has said if you want to kill yourself you will find a way no matter how dumb your chosen method turns out to be.
For the record, I have shot a few birds in my life without the use of a dog and by myself, and I made my living training the damn things. It's done all the time. And by the way I don't know of a single dog trainer that would hunt with anyone else while training a dog.
I have always been blind so I hunted alone part of the time because I was a bad shot compared to everyone else I knew. Who knows maybe Benda was self conscious about his shooting ability and choose to hunt by himself for that reason.
I just gave you two reasons that people hunt by themselves, there are many more.
This brings us back to the only thing that bothers me. The damn gun was left leaning against a tree. It would seem that "you have some splanning to do AG Lucy."
The Blindman
Young Mr. Johnson will get to the bottom of this. You all just have to wait.
Well, we may know soon.
Jackley just announced limited access to the Benda death investigation after the media pressured him using FOIA. Two reporters will be allowed to examine everything relevant to Benda's death and report their findings to the rest of the media.
Parts of the investigation that won't be available to the reporters are reports and documentation under federal subpoena. That part bothers me, Jackley could say anything he wants is under federal subpoena.
Richard S. and Deb point out that the friend received texts, not phone calls, on that fateful Sunday. As I spoke with the friend, I wanted to ask, "What did you hear in his voice?" But we don't have that information. Damn texting.
I don't know if I can share the suspicion about who typed those texts. Suppose Benda had fallen victim to foul play. The perp is still on the scene when Benda's phone goes off. What motivation does the killer have to pick up the phone and respond?
I am surprised that no one has noticed something about the time frame Richard's friend describes. That final text came in "late afternoon." Sunset is around 6:44 p.m. CDT in Lake Andes on October 20. That doesn't leave a lot of time to go hunting. He's already driven up to Watertown to take his daughter home to Mom. He's spent at least three hours driving from Watertown to Lake Andes. He lives in Sioux Falls.
Why would a guy drive that far out of his way, burning daylight, just to hunt, something he usually doesn't do?
Wow, Cory, good connection!
I bet the state "investigators" didn't think of that.
That darned "meta" data off Benda's phone prob told the whole story if Ol Barney did his job. Whose got connections at NSA.? Lar?
Another thing - since we've shown that in order to commit suicide by shooting yourself in the abdomen with a 12 gauge shot gun, you have to put the butt end of the shot gun in the ground, press the barrel into the stomach and bend over the shot gun in order to stretch to push the trigger... we can rule out a self-inflicted hunting accident (that would be consistent with a wound that could be ruled suicide by shot gun).
This means that the investigators were in fact considering a hunting accident as a two-person scenario OR a suicide as a one-person scenario. That means they ruled out murder as a possible two-person scenario at the beginning of the investigation. Now why would the state investigators, under Attorney General Marty Jackley, only investigate Benda's death as suicide or hunting accident, and not murder?
Talk about mind-boggling incompetence. Now what does it take to get the legislature to impeach Attorney General Lackey? Come on Republicans. Develop some principles.
NSA moll not in my wheelhouse, Les.
The NSA doesn't have actual people working for it anymore, just a big super computer the size of Mall of America. You know, the monstrous super computer that goes crazy and tries to kill off humanity in every Sci Fi book ever written?
" you have to put the butt end of the shot gun in the ground, press the barrel into the stomach and bend over the shot gun in order to stretch to push the trigger... we can rule out a self-inflicted hunting accident "
I didn't have to have it on the ground. And most times when your own gun shoots you on accident, it's when you drop it and it fires....or you trip and fall onto it. You really shouldn't talk about guns when you know nothing about them. It's funny watching you try to come up with these bullshit scenarios and actually think they didn't go through all of this.
"This means that the investigators were in fact considering a hunting accident as a two-person scenario OR a suicide as a one-person scenario."
You fail once again.
"Why would a guy drive that far out of his way, burning daylight, just to hunt, something he usually doesn't do?"
To kill himself.
Bree, you have filled this discussion with silliness equivalent to the theorists who said it was impossible for man to build an airplane that would fly.
I have an old shotgun and for curiosity, I set butt on floor and leaned over. Barrel end could be at my side, in center of my gut, etc. and I would have nearly six inches to spare on reaching the trigger. Your calculations are irrelevant as someone else already indicated.
As for the gun against the tree, that might depend on where Benda was in relation to the tree and where his body went after the gun went off and where the gun went. There is nothing at all complex about the geometry or measurements involved if this is actually a suicide.
Even so, there are enough things about this that don't make sense that reasons other than those involving reach, measurements, geometry and physics seem to warrant healthy suspicion.
The Kennedy assassination investigations show the problems with incomplete information and conspiracy theories.
The something rotten in Pierre stinks enough that a murder isn't required to raise suspicion however.
DB, nobody believes what you say. Both Rorschach and Les said they had to have the butt of the shot gun on the ground in order to shoot themselves in the abdomen. You claimed that you had checked every single angle of possibility with your Benelli Supernova and could shoot yourself anywhere easily except the head. You posted your claim 8 minutes after I asked for distance from barrel to trigger of various shot gun models. It then took you 32 minutes and 3 requests for the length of barrel end to trigger of your Supernova. You responded with "roughly 36 inches." Clearly, you didn't actually measure the shot gun.
"And most times when your own gun shoots you on accident, it's when you drop it and it fires....or you trip and fall onto it."
IF YOU DROP YOUR GUN AND IT FIRES BY MAGIC TRIGGER ACTION IT WOULD NOT PRODUCE A WOUND IN THE ABDOMEN CONSISTENT WITH SUICIDE BY SHOT GUN, WHICH REQUIRES NO DISTANCE BETWEEN THE BARREL END OF THE SHOT GUN AND THE ABDOMEN.
If you trip and fall on your shot gun and it goes off it does not end up leaning against a tree. It also would not produce the nearly straight in angle of entry consistent with a wound that could be produced by suicide. Nobody falls on their gun like a frigging tee pee.
"You really shouldn't talk about guns when you know nothing about them."
I am so tired of reading your asinine sexist comments. You must have called me stupid 25 times in this thread, meanwhile being deliberately obtuse. My big stupid world-class idiot female mouth isn't going to shut up because you don't like it DB. I'm sorry if the existence of intelligent women makes your manhood shrivel. I'm sorry you have such low self esteem that you feel the need to verbally abuse every female who disagrees with you.
I am not an expert on guns, that's for sure. But for you to order me stop talking about them, because I must know absolutely nothing about them (because I'm a female), makes me roll my eyes like Malibu Barbie, and I have developed the strong urge to throw my hair curlers at you. I tell you what Mr. Big Strong Manly Male Genius Person, why don't you tell me how often a gun just "goes off" because you dropped it or fell on it, Mr. Shot Gun Expert.
I'll give you hint: hardly ever.
What is the barrel length of your old shot gun, Wiken. Why would someone making as much money as Benda go hunting pheasant with an old shot gun. Also, how would someone accidentally shoot themselves using the method you just described. Do you understand that my argument is that the investigators were looking into a hunting accident, and that hunting accident wouldn't have been self-inflicted but would have required a two-person scenario, and that means the investigators would have been investigating a two-person scenario but had ruled out murder for no apparent reason? Do you comprehend the logic of my argument?
Also Wiken can you hold the shot gun up, without putting the butt end in the ground and push the trigger in, aimed at the abdominal side wall?
You're right Bree....I just shot my deer this morning and have hunted every day since Saturday. What would I know about guns or hunting?
" Both Rorschach and Les said they had to have the butt of the shot gun on the ground in order to shoot themselves in the abdomen. "
Do you want me to give you a pic? I can put the gun in my stomach and hold it with one hand and use a finger on that same hand to fire it.
"It then took you 32 minutes and 3 requests for the length of barrel end to trigger of your Supernova. You responded with "roughly 36 inches." Clearly, you didn't actually measure the shot gun."
Great detective work /s.....now are you going to tell me how many places in town I stopped in that 30 minutes? Or was I sitting in a deer stand? What color of underwear was I wearing?
"IF YOU DROP YOUR GUN AND IT FIRES BY MAGIC TRIGGER ACTION IT WOULD NOT PRODUCE A WOUND IN THE ABDOMEN CONSISTENT WITH SUICIDE BY SHOT GUN, WHICH REQUIRES NO DISTANCE BETWEEN THE BARREL END OF THE SHOT GUN AND THE ABDOMEN.
If you trip and fall on your shot gun and it goes off it does not end up leaning against a tree. It also would not produce the nearly straight in angle of entry consistent with a wound that could be produced by suicide. Nobody falls on their gun like a frigging tee pee."
More and more stupidity.
"I am so tired of reading your asinine sexist comments. You must have called me stupid 25 times in this thread, meanwhile being deliberately obtuse. My big stupid world-class idiot female mouth isn't going to shut up because you don't like it DB. I'm sorry if the existence of intelligent women makes your manhood shrivel. I'm sorry you have such low self esteem that you feel the need to verbally abuse every female who disagrees with you."
Nothing sexist about it, you just don't have a clue what you are talking about.
"I am not an expert on guns, that's for sure."
Ya think....
"Mr. Shot Gun Expert"
Damn right I am. I have over 20 guns and have hunted for over 20 years. I know what is and what isn't possible with a gun. I have had friends who have had accidental discharges. One even got shot in the ass by his own gun and the bullet is still there. Do you want to figure out how that was possible?
"why don't you tell me how often a gun just "goes off" because you dropped it or fell on it"
A hell of a lot more often than you think.
Now, I have some birds to go shoot so I doubt I will respond anytime soon. Oh, and I'll be by myself and without a dog.....must be a freak of nature. Maybe you can come up with another bullshit theory by the time I have my limit and I can shred that one as well.
"Do you understand that my argument is that the investigators were looking into a hunting accident, and that hunting accident wouldn't have been self-inflicted but would have required a two-person scenario"
It doesn't require 2 people. Don't even bother with the scenarios. You just keep giving everyone more reasons to disregard your so-called knowledge. You have none on this topic and you are continuing to make yourself look like a fool.
I have discovered through personal experience an inverse correlation between Male I.Q. and sexism.
DB, calling other people stupid fools and claiming to be an expert on everything only wins the congealed argument in your brain.
Let's assume that every single time you drop a shot gun it accidentally discharges. That's 100% error rate (and all gun manufacturers get sued into nonexistence but never mind that bit of reality). It still does not produce in any way shape or form an entry wound consistent with suicide by shot gun. The investigators have ruled this suicide by shot gun, which means that any explanations have to be consistent with a scenario where the barrel end of the gun is next to the skin. That does not occur when a shot gun is dropped and accidentally discharges.
Your only response to my logical conclusion that falling on a shot gun could not produce an entry wound consistent with suicide by shot gun was "more stupidity." Great argument buddy.
I am so impressed with the amount of hunting you have done, how long you have owned guns, and how many guns you own. In fact my knees are getting weak and my eyelashes are fluttering just thinking about it. Oooh, such a manly man.
So none of the boasting and verbal abuse in your comments did anything to dispute my logical argument that the accidental discharge of a shot gun, either by dropping or falling on it, would not produce an entry wound consistent with suicide. So you accomplished nothing in disproving my theory that a hunting accident with a shot gun would require a two-person scenario in order to produce the close range, nearly straight in angle of wounding consistent with a suicide by shot gun.
Keep up the great debate, Einstein. Where'd you learn your technique, third grade?
Two questions:
1. Was Benda left handed or right handed?
2. Where did the report of the shot gun leaning up against
the tree come from?
Not sure about #1. For #2, it was reported by Ray Johanneson (Jim's brother), as coming from Jim Johanneson (Benda's brother-in-law)
Here's Cory's synopsis:
https://madvilletimes.com/2013/10/mdr-benda-goes-pheasant-hunting-dies-with-bullet-hole-in-side/
Although "gun lying against a tree" sounds like it could be laying on the ground, right next to the tree. It makes suicide more plausible in my opinion, although the wound being in the side is still odd.
However, the location of the shot gun after death is irrelevant to my argument that the investigators chose to only to investigate a two-person hunting accident, and chose not to investigate Benda's death as a murder.
" logical argument that the accidental discharge of a shot gun, either by dropping or falling on it, would not produce an entry wound consistent with suicide."
It sure as hell can cause a similar wound. Where do you come up with this shit? What makes you think that a gun can't be against your body when an accidental discharge occurs? Seriously, this is getting borderline retarded of what you think can and can't happen. You haven't a clue what's possible. You just keep giving me more reasons to disregard everything you say based on your lack of knowledge on the topic.
"nearly straight in angle of wounding consistent with a suicide by shot gun."
You don't even know the angle. You don't even know why what pushed them to think suicide and not an accident. You just come up with the so-called conclusion based on jack shit and no knowledge.
"Your only response to my logical conclusion that falling on a shot gun could not produce an entry wound consistent with suicide by shot gun was "more stupidity." Great argument buddy."
Because you are dumb enough to think that. It isn't worth my time explaining to you over and over and over again that how you are discrediting possibilities is complete bullshit.
"I have discovered through personal experience an inverse correlation between Male I.Q. and sexism....I am so impressed with the amount of hunting you have done, how long you have owned guns, and how many guns you own. In fact my knees are getting weak and my eyelashes are fluttering just thinking about it. Oooh, such a manly man."
And I'm the sexist? You certainly do have a persecution complex, and frankly, you couldn't hold a candle to my IQ.
"that the investigators chose to only to investigate a two-person hunting accident, and chose not to investigate Benda's death as a murder."
I concede. This is the dumbest possible conclusion ever reached based on the evidence you have given. Complete loony tunes conspiracy theory horse shit.
"..frankly, you couldn't hold a candle to my IQ."
Uh huh. You of course, know my IQ, because you know that I am a female who disagrees with you. All females who disagree with you are world-class idiots.
I am going to continue with my stupid, bull shit, retarded, dumb, inquiry into Benda's death whether you are like or not. I am not going to shut up. I am not going to go away. Your constant railing and unnecessary verbal abuse is irrelevant to me.
"What makes you think that a gun can't be against your body when an accidental discharge occurs?"
Gravity and V-8 makes accidental discharge against the abdominal wall from a dropped shot gun about as likely as your IQ being as impressive as you think it is.
"You don't even know the angle."
No, because Jackley has lost the death certificate in his files we don't know the angle yet. However, experimentation by shot gun has demonstrated (thank you Les) that a man committing suicide with a shot gun would most likely have an entry angle nearly straight in.
"I concede."
Good. Now go back to abusing the women in your life and leave the rest of us alone.
"Uh huh. You of course, know my IQ, because you know that I am a female who disagrees with you. All females who disagree with you are world-class idiots."
More of that persecution complex. You must hate men.
"Gravity and V-8 makes accidental discharge against the abdominal wall from a dropped shot gun about as likely as your IQ being as impressive as you think it is."
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...The guy can't trip and fall? You really thought that through.
"Good. Now go back to abusing the women in your life and leave the rest of us alone."
Oh poor Bree......every man is out to get you. It must drive you nuts to know that a man knows more than you. Boo hoo. Go back to tech school. You are going to need it.
"Gravity and V-8 makes accidental discharge against the abdominal wall from a dropped shot gun about as likely as your IQ being as impressive as you think it is."
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...The guy can't trip and fall? You really thought that through.
......................................
Come on DB. Are you suggesting a hunting accident scenario where Benda dropped the shot gun, barrel pointed at him, and as he dropped it he also fell forward at the same time so that the side of his abdomen was pressed against the barrel at a near straight angle so that when the butt hit the ground the barrel discharged against the skin? And then, despite ground-shot gun-skin contact in that scenario with Benda falling sideways towards the shot gun, it did not end up under him, but right next to a tree?
And all that nonsense to try to prove that the investigators were only considering a one-person hunting accident scenario, and not a two-person hunting accident scenario?
Yeah, your scenario is way more logical than mine. LOL
--------------------------------------------
"Oh poor Bree......every man is out to get you. It must drive you nuts to know that a man knows more than you. Boo hoo. Go back to tech school. You are going to need it."
...........................................
All I got from that is the likelihood that you attended tech school to get your EMT degree. Also, your constant claims that I have a persecution complex and your demonstrated low self esteem tell me that you're probably short for a male.
Your high school sweetheart probably dumped you for a tall guy, and your Dad most likely abused your Mother.
(I'm doubting that your six foot tall is what I'm saying. If you are, maybe Daddy used to tell you how stupid you are all the time. That could be another explanation for your bullying and low self-esteem.)
" Are you suggesting a hunting accident scenario where Benda dropped the shot gun, barrel pointed at him, and as he dropped it he also fell forward at the same time so that the side of his abdomen was pressed against the barrel at a near straight angle so that when the butt hit the ground the barrel discharged against the skin? And then, despite ground-shot gun-skin contact in that scenario with Benda falling sideways towards the shot gun, it did not end up under him, but right next to a tree?"
I'm suggesting it was a suicide and every reason that you are saying they didn't investigate other possibilities is complete bullshit. What you are saying is impossible is completely possible. That really doesn't matter because I would guarantee the forensics experts went through all of this.
"All I got from that is the likelihood that you attended tech school to get your EMT degree. Also, your constant claims that I have a persecution complex and your demonstrated low self esteem tell me that you're probably short for a male."
Bree, I have my master's degree and I had my emt cert before I left high school. I'll be retired by I'm 40 for how many businesses I already own.
"Your high school sweetheart probably dumped you for a tall guy, and your Dad most likely abused your Mother. (I'm doubting that your six foot tall is what I'm saying. If you are, maybe Daddy used to tell you how stupid you are all the time. That could be another explanation for your bullying and low self-esteem.)"
Keep it up Bree. You are only helping me.
"Bree, I have my master's degree and I had my emt cert before I left high school. I'll be retired by I'm 40 for how many businesses I already own."
You are clearly a very accomplished man with a much higher IQ than mine.
"I'm suggesting it was a suicide and every reason that you are saying they didn't investigate other possibilities is complete bullshit."
Yes, and you keep repeating your explitive-laced mantra without evidence, interspersed with personally puffery and verbal abuse aimed at others. The repetition does not advance your non-argument.
The repetition isn't helping you understand a topic you know nothing about either. A person can fall and have an accidental discharge with the gun against their body. Just like my buddy can trip and get shot in the butt with his own gun. Yeah it's not likely, but perfectly plausible. I don't doubt that murder is possible, but I have faith that they fully examined those possibilities and when the autopsy and forensic findings are review by the media, we will find out what made them disregard it as an accidental shooting or murder. They explicitly stated they ruled out foul play. Maybe the oddness is what took them so long in the first place? What you have said for evidence that they couldn't have possibly investigated it as a murder, or a single person accident is not enough.
The investigators told a key witness that they were considering EITHER suicide OR a hunting accident. That logical statement leaves out any possibility that they were investigating this as a possible homicide. The very close range entry wound to the abdominal side wall makes murder a much more logical possibility than any ridiculous scenario you can think of to explain an accidental self-inflicted very close range (next to the skin) shot gun wound to the abdominal side wall. The fact that the state investigators chose not investigate this as a possible murder at the very least demonstrates extreme incompetence. No amount of repetitive insults from you disputes that.
And we haven't even gotten into the discussion about how silly it would be for a man to decide in the afternoon to drive 3 hours away to go hunting for pheasant at twilight.
Remember, at the time Jackley wasn't investigating this aggressively, he went all out to go after the infamous case of robocalls that did not have their website addresses disclosed in them! Tens of thousands of dollars spent to go after the governor's political opponents but no time to interview the person at the center of millions of lost tax payer dollars.
"Yeah it's not likely, but perfectly plausible."
A two-person scenario involving murder or a hunting accident is much more likely, which is the point.
"I don't doubt that murder is possible, but I have faith that they fully examined those possibilities.."
You can have all the faith you want in the Attorney General and his incompetent state investigators. I have none based on his past behavior and investigations, and since the investigators stated they were considering EITHER suicide OR a hunting accident, that means they did not fully consider the possibility of murder. I will continue to question the circumstances surrounding Benda's death in this forum and I will not under any circumstances be convinced by your weak declarations substituted for logical inquiry.
Let's see what we learn from this:
http://www.aberdeennews.com/news/local/benda-death-record-details-to-be-opened-to-reporters/article_e6a333cb-ec7f-5456-8f72-aeadec94e332.html
And Bree and DB ... seriously ... get a room ... or exchange e-mail addresses and bicker among yourselves. It's like being among the obnoxious aunt and uncle that always show up for Thanksgiving...
I bet a good reporter from the Rapid City Journal and 6 other daily papers gets to review the evidence for a full day, along with some other journalist yet to be picked by Mr. Jackley. Isn't PP a journalist?
"Jackley said the reports won’t be released to the general public. He said he couldn’t determine a way that redacted versions could be made." Aberdeen News. - Thank you, Dave.
I don't doubt that a thorough investigation was done. The AG is withholding information. It's the nature of the information being withheld that peaks my curiosity. Perhaps it's being withheld pursuant to the federal investigation, in which case, it will become known at some point.. possibly.
"The investigators told a key witness that they were considering EITHER suicide OR a hunting accident. That logical statement leaves out any possibility that they were investigating this as a possible homicide."
What investigators? I'm willing to bet it was local po-dunk police who initially jumped to that conclusion. There is no way they are going to find an unattended death and rule out foul play without investigating it as a murder. They said they ruled that out. What more do you need?
"A two-person scenario involving murder or a hunting accident is much more likely, which is the point."
There is no way you can make that statement based on what we know. You don't know anything about the forensics, the blood, or the ballistics.
"You can have all the faith you want in the Attorney General and his incompetent state investigators."
I do have faith in the minnehaha county examiners and forensic experts. I don't think you understand the sheer number of people involved in something like this.
"The very close range entry wound to the abdominal side wall makes murder a much more logical possibility than any ridiculous scenario you can think of to explain an accidental self-inflicted very close range (next to the skin) shot gun wound to the abdominal side wall. "
I don't think it was accidental, I just understand that it is plausible that it could have been. I believe it was suicide just as the experts findings confirm.
"The fact that the state investigators chose not investigate this as a possible murder at the very least demonstrates extreme incompetence."
And you are making a huge assumption by making this statement. You don't know they didn't investigate it as murder.
"And we haven't even gotten into the discussion about how silly it would be for a man to decide in the afternoon to drive 3 hours away to go hunting for pheasant at twilight."
People who kill themselves do silly things. The other question is whether or not the text was received at the same time it was sent, so Cory's time could be completely off. I have been in the valleys around that area and it's not uncommon to send a text for it to be received a long time after.
Bree, the only possible line of thought you can make questions on is the body/gun placement and the text message. Everything else can line up exactly with what the state released. Your idea for ruling out they didn't investigate it as a murder is based on false pretenses.
"Perhaps it's being withheld pursuant to the federal investigation, in which case, it will become known at some point.. possibly."
Chances are what will be withheld will pertain to the "motive for suicide" as that may incriminate others or involve the federal investigation. The autopsy and forensic findings should be open and should tell us exactly why they think it is suicide.
Exactly.
Oh, and for the record, I'm speaking more toward the related EB-5 inquiry.
I'm guessing the two reporters representing the pool will be Mercer from the Journal and Montgomery from the Argus Leader.
Like I stated earlier, anything under federal subpoena isn't available for review, Jacklely doesn't have to reveal anything he wants under that guise.
Should charges against others come out of the federal investigation, so, too, will more information.
Interesting - I read Montgomery's autopsy report and after all our discussion of pushing the trigger with a stick, apparently the conclusion was that he secured the shot gun to a tree and used a stick to push the trigger. Sounds reasonable.
But now - if the shot gun was secured to a tree why were they considering the possibility of a hunting accident? Maybe they mean he leaned it against the tree, but it wasn't physically secured with say twine. But that doesn't really say "secured" to me. I don't see how you could consider a gun attached to a tree a possible hunting accident.
One possible explanation for driving the 3 hours is maybe he didn't own any guns.. so he wanted to use his brother-in-laws? If Benda owned even a pistol, driving 3 hours to tie someone else's shot gun to a tree and shooting yourself in the abdomen by pushing the trigger with a stick... is strange behavior for a sane human.
So, who got to Benda and threatened his family, Bree?
Bree, because this happens to be an old shotgun does not mean that modern guns necessarily would be configured significantly differently. It is an Ithaca Pump 12 ga. Model 37 if that rings any bells with hunters here. It is 49 inches from barrel end to butt. It measures 35 inches from barrel end to trigger. I haven't shot it for years, but it is light enough that it does kick. Set the butt on the ground and it is easy to reach the trigger with it pushed into my gut. Put it against a wall or a tree and your side and it will stay there. Bending sideways makes it easy to reach the trigger. I am just a bit over 6 foot tall and when I still bought shirts with sleeve measurements, they were 34 or 36 depending on brand.
You have perhaps heard "Assume" makes an ass of u and me. You have a truckload of nearly baseless assumptions about Benda, about guns, and about posters here as well. I don't know about your assumptions about Jackley, et al however.
We went through gun safety courses, and even half following those old rules, even accidental shooting of yourself seems unlikely. More likely that a hunting buddy might get shot. On the other hand with loaded guns bouncing around in pickup trucks, anything could and does happen.
I am nol fan of crony government and coverups, but I also do not think we gain anything by giving credence to baseless assumptions which may have been tested already or which will be shown to be silly when all data is released. Some patience is a virtue even if Republicans in Pierre are involved...and this case has others as well involved in the investigation.
"is strange behavior for a sane human."
What is there to suggest that somebody who commits suicide is necessarily sane?
I wonder why, if Les, Rorschach, Wiken can bend to push in the trigger without effort, he would secure the shot gun to a tree and use a stick to push the trigger, shooting himself in the side.
Larry, why do you think someone threatened his family? I did notice that the brother-in-law's interview gives the impression of nervousness.
Maybe Benda wasn't very tall and a stick was the only workable solution for a side wound with a shot gun. He doesn't look that short in pictures.
Maybe shot gun "secured" to tree was how they explained why it was still leaning against the tree. I would like to know if he owned any firearms.
It was odd that the brother in law said it was "just a hunting accident" and then clammed up. The scenario described in the autopsy in no way jives with hunting accident, so how could they possibly be investigating it as such.
Larry if Benda was in fact murdered, and family threatened - then the China-South Korea-Phillipines-human trafficking-$550,000-RICO tells you who, you don't need my help. If I state it Wiken and DB will just jump down my throat. We both know this is business as usual.
You keep typing about short guys. Do you have a thing for short guys, Mrs. S, or are you just too impatient to wait for the real facts to be delivered by Messrs. Jackley, Mercer and Montgomery?
i grok you, woman.
I grok you, larry, more than you'd expect me for not being a hippy nerd dorkster. I grok you deep.
Bree: have you even sent your milk to a lab?
No Larry why would I do that lol. You mean for donation?