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Real South Dakota Unemployment Rate, Including Indians: Over 14%?

Last updated on 2014.09.18

In his proposal to include American Indians in our workforce initiatives, Rep. Steve Hickey says, "South Dakota celebrates a low unemployment rate only because tribal unemployment statistics are excluded. The real unemployment rate in South Dakota which include tribal unemployment are much more dire."

Logically, a commenter asks, "Does anyone know what the unemployment rate would be in SD if the reservations were included?"

Good question. For what I think is the answer, skip straight to the table at the bottom.

But if you want some wonky caveats, plow through the following exposition:

Let us establish that South Dakota does not count unemployed Indians in its job stats because counting Indians is the feds' job. And even the feds don't exert themselves very hard on that task. The Bureau of Indian Affairs issued a report on Indian job data in 2007, then skipped its biennial legal mandate to do so in 2009 and 2011. They caught up last January with data from 2010:

The law mandating the report doesn’t provide funding for it. One full-time employee – an economist – was assigned the task of producing the report....

But it’s a question of priorities, according to [Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs Kevin] Washburn. Although the report is “not unimportant,” Washburn said he didn’t want to pull human resources from other important aspects of the BIA’s mission “and I’m not sure Congress would like us to...."

So why not hand the task over to the Census Bureau or Labor Department with their armies of researchers with expertise in statistics?

“I’m not authorized to do that,” Washburn said [Gale Courey Toensing, "Finally! Indian Country Gets Its Labor Force Report," Indian County Today, 2014.01.29].

That one poor economist also warns us not to apple-orange the BIA numbers with standard unemployment figures:

It is very important to note that this report does not provide any estimates of "unemployment.” “Unemployment,” as also defined above, refers to the proportion of people in “the labor force” who are not working, in accordance with the official Federal definition of “the labor force” as set by the Department of Labor. For example, people may be “available for work” in the sense of wanting a job, but would not be “in the labor force” if they do not have a job and are not actively looking for one. This measurement standard has long been established in the Federal Statistical System.

The above-mentioned standard definition of unemployment does not reflect any judgment as to whether people who are not working, and who want a job, should be actively looking for work. Indeed, it may well be the case that there are no job opportunities in certain areas of Indian Country, thereby making it pointless, or perhaps even irrational, for anyone without a job under these circumstances to be continually and actively looking for one in the same, economically depressed, geographic area.

The Act does not require this report to provide estimates of unemployment, and such estimates are not possible because data on the size of the labor force within tribal service populations are not available. Therefore, none of the statistics provided in this report should be seen as reflecting or representing estimates of unemployment. Anyone who uses the statistics provided in this report to infer any statement about unemployment with regard to any individual tribe, with regard to the tribes in a state or region, or with regard to Indian Country overall, will be misinterpreting and misrepresenting the findings of this report [2013 American Indian Population and labor Force Report, Bureau of Indian Affairs, January 2014, p. 9].

Oh, for criminy pete jeeper's sakes, can we just have a spreadsheet?

No, but we can creep slowly toward the most responsible answer possible to my commenter's question.

First, the 2014 BIA report indicates that South Dakota is doing worse at putting the Indian workforce to work than almost anyone else. Between 25.7% and 28.5% of tribal service populations age 16 and over who were available for work in 2010 were not working [pp. 33–34]. That's one of the worst rates in the nation, matched only by Arizona (27.0%–28.3%) and Utah (22.5%–29.0%). The national rate is 17.6%–17.9%. Evidently, it's harder for Indians to find work in South Dakota than most other states, and we could use proposals like Rep. Hickey's to catch us up.

Alas, the 2014 report does not provide the same direct numbers (or even arrive at them by the same methodology) as its last report, from 2007, based on 2005 data. To keep my extrapolations low, I want to look at the 2005 data.

Now let's address this problematic distinction between "in the labor force" (the category used for traditional unemployment calculations) and "available for work." Discussing nationwide data [p. 35], the 2014 BIA report finds that about 96% of those "available for work" were in the "labor force" either holding jobs or actively seeking jobs. In 2005, that percentage was closer to 97% (see 2005 BLS labor force data and count of those available to work but not in the labor force). As suggested by the report [see above, p. 9], that greater lack of jobs on in Indian Country may depress that percentage much further.

I want to combine BIA report numbers with South Dakota employment data from 2005. But before we do any calculations, we face a choice:

  1. Do we damn the torpedoes, mash the numbers together as is, and leave it to Governor Daugaard to hire his own economist to better rectify the numbers?
  2. Do we multiply and BIA "available for work" numbers by 97% to estimate "labor force"?
  3. Do we assume a much lower Indian labor force participation rate and multiply by a guessed lower percentage?

To strike a balance between restraint and extrapolation error, I will take the middle route and multiply BIA "available for work" numbers by the nationally, statistically attested 96%

Now, finally, let's crunch some 2005 numbers. That year, South Dakota reported an unemployment rate of 3.65%. Let's add the 2005 data South Dakota's nine tribes reported to the BIA for its 2007 report and see what comes out:

2005 avail to work labor force* employed unemployed unemp rate
SD 429,485 413,825 15,660 3.65%
Cheyenne River 11,205 10,843 1,312 9,531 87.90%
Crow Creek 1,317 1,274 558 716 56.22%
Flandreau Santee 1,247 1,206 775 431 35.78%
Lower Brule 731 707 351 356 50.38%
Oglala 29,539 28,584 3,131 25,453 89.05%
Rosebud 14,428 13,961 2,519 11,442 81.96%
Sisseton-Wahpeton 8,599 8,321 2,576 5,745 69.04%
Standing Rock 3,565 3,449 491 2,958 85.77%
Yankton 719 695 631 64 9.31%
SD + Tribal 498,530 426,169 72,361 14.51%
*Reservation labor force calculated by multiplying reported "available for work" by 2005 national labor force/available to work of 0.96769

According to this tribal data, there were more Oglala Sioux unable to find work on the Pine Ridge reservation than there were not working in South Dakota's official count of the rest of the state. If South Dakota is not including 57,000 out-of-work Indians in its unemployment data, then in 2005, instead of 3.65%, the statewide unemployment rate was 14.51%.

South Dakota currently (as of July 2014) brags about an official unemployment rate of 3.7%, tying with Vermont for fourth-lowest in the nation. That's half of California's 7.4%. That's well below the worst rate in the nation, Mississippi's 8.0%.

The Indian population has been growing faster than the white population in South Dakota. I haven't heard anyone saying that jobs have been proliferating on the reservations since 2005. And I don't think Northern Beef Packers or any of Mike Rounds's other magical job creation schemes created 57,000 jobs on the reservations.

So if the above 2005 data are not riddled with errors, we could safely speculate that South Dakota's all-inclusive unemployment rate is over 14%.

Whether that 14% would make us worst in the nation depends on how badly other states would be affected by counting their Indian labor data. But 14%

39 Comments

  1. Steve Hickey 2014.09.06

    Good stuff.

    Of course the US Senate race is sucking all the oxygen out of the political conversation this fall and our discussion here on indian unemployment (as an opportunity not a problem) gets lost in the wind. I'd love to hear a comment from our congressional candidates at a debate on 1) how urgent is the situation on the Rez to them personally?? 2) how can SD tap into the workforce on the Rez??

  2. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.06

    There are several observations I can make on your report Cory, but I will limit my first one to this:

    South Dakota once agains displays its stone age economics by not including Indians in their unemployment percentages and keeps us in the top 10 of failures across the board.

    The question South Dakota should be addressing is, how much in spending would 57,000 employed Indians add to the state?

    As Rev. Hickey states, Indian employment should be an asset or gold mine to the state. Can Daugaard change his thinking? Can Rounds?

    I'm curious what other states with a heavy Indian population do to address the unemployment problem on reservation.

    Cory, this is a critical report that needs to be discussed and shared. Thank you for putting your valuable time and effort in to it. I think you did more productive research than any dingbat bureaucrat in Washington ever did.

  3. bearcreekbat 2014.09.06

    Cory, I agree with Roger - your analysis is mind boggling. This is an important source of information and really does undermine the misleading 3.7% claims that our elected officials seem to feel proud of.

  4. Noah Perry 2014.09.06

    CAH- Thanks for taking a look at the question I posed.

  5. lesliengland 2014.09.06

    the us senate race needs to be the top priority in this election. the catastrophic effect on the nation if your republicans win the senate is frighteningly real.

    i still fear you are working for the republican state party to obfuscate the central issue of both rounds and daugaard concerning eb5, and curry favor with largely indian democratic voters at the last minute for your land swap idea-get them bear butte-and reservation jobs too!

    say it aint so

  6. lesliengland 2014.09.06

    the above comment directed to rep. steve hickey, (r.) sx falls

  7. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.06

    Leslie,

    Does your computer keyboard have a shift or caps lock key? It is difficult to read your comments when always in the lower case.

  8. caheidelberger Post author | 2014.09.06

    Noah, thanks for the question to get me thinking! I don't know if I've given the correct answer; I've just pasted together what looks like the best data available. I welcome any informed observer to provide better data on the labor force/"available to work" ratio, updated reservation populations, and any possible overlap between official South Dakota labor force counts and tribal labor force counts.

  9. caheidelberger Post author | 2014.09.06

    Leslie, the Senate race is vital, but so are many other conversations. I believe this blog, its readers, and the general electorate are capable of conducting more than one policy conversation at a time. We can talk and vote on state and national issues.

    And I have yet to see one plant/mole conspiracy theory offered this year pan out. Bosworth wasn't working for Rounds. Pressler is not working for Rounds. Hickey is not working for Rounds.

  10. Bob Klein 2014.09.06

    When you say - SD doesn't count Indians. Are you making the selection of who is an Indian on ethnicity, or place of residence? Is SD counting Indians in Sioux Falls, for instance?

    I expect it has more to do with place of residence than ethnicity.

  11. grudznick 2014.09.06

    Here is a big question that seems right at the heart of the matter. Are these unemployed people educated and employable, or are they drunken slackards, or are the somewhere in the middle like me? This is important, because if we have 57,284 people in this state who are educated and employable but just can't find jobs where they live then they probably need to move. I'm just sayin...

  12. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.06

    grudz, do you know what it means to have an unexpressed thought?

  13. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.06

    Bob,
    I think South Dakota statistics would be include Indians living off the reservation. If there is an ethnic breakdown when reporting isn't clear to me.
    If the state is not counting Indians in collecting their unemployment data it is because of residency.
    Another strange aspect of this unemployment rate is that reservations have South Dakota Job Services offices in at least one or two locations on the reservations.

  14. Steve Hickey 2014.09.06

    I don't have any better stats at hand and haven't asked for any yet. My guess is 57,000 is way way high. Isn't the native population number like 90,000? Count out kids and the elderly and that number significantly drops. Whatever the case, if there were only 10000 it's totally worth the effort. If there were 700 unemployed people in Pierre people would put their heads together and invite some industry back in.

    If an idea like this got legs we'd soon see industries doing feasibility studies region to region with exact numbers of potentially employable people and where they live exactly.

  15. jana 2014.09.06

    This is a great example of original and curiosity thought and comments that make this the most important to political forum in the state.
    Kudos Cory!

  16. GTRock 2014.09.06

    For Steve Hickey- you say"I'd love to hear a comment from our congressional candidates at a debate on 1) how urgent is the situation on the Rez to them personally?? 2) how can SD tap into the workforce on the Rez??"
    You may get your wish as the Rapid City campus of the United Tribes Technical College; Black Hills Learning Center & Native Sun News is sponsoring a Senate debate on Friday September 12, 2014 at 6pm MST. Unfortunately, former Gov. Rounds has once again declined on the infamous scheduling conflict grounds. The Native Sun News has an article on it and Rounds response, as well as, the other candidates.
    http://www.indianz.com/News/2014/014772.asp
    Howie asks what question is Rounds afraid to answer.

  17. Deb Geelsdottir 2014.09.06

    Oh Roger! This cracked me up!

    "grudz, do you know what it means to have an unexpressed thought?"

    I guffawed.
    Grudz, he got you good.

  18. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.06

    Deb,
    Unfortunately grudz probably didn't even catch on

  19. Tara Volesky 2014.09.07

    Pine Ridge is again hosting an All Candidate Debate Oct 1st. and again, DD, MMR, and Kristie Noem will once again be no-shows. Rosebud is in the process of also hosting an all candidate debate. These politicians don't care about Native Americans. Pastor Hickey, if you don't care about political parties, why are you a member of one?

  20. Michael B 2014.09.07

    You can bet the government knows exactly what the unemployment rate is but chooses to ignore it.

  21. Douglas Wiken 2014.09.07

    Stone-age tribalism and culture on the reservations is the prime contributor to unemployment...that and a federal welfare system which rewards irresponsible procreation. The state might as well include rocks in the unemployment statistics as include residents who have a working system that rewards permanent unemployment and intentional irrelevancy. We all want jobs that don't require any work, but most of us don't qualify.

  22. bearcreekbat 2014.09.07

    Douglas implicitly relies on a sad and harmful stereotype for his opinion that Natives who refuse to work are living the life of Riley. I would encourage him to spend time with as many people as possible who live on our reservations. Go to Oglala Lakota College and spend time with the students there and learn more about what these folks are really like.

    Douglas would become aware of at least two key problems with the stereotype he repeats. First, Douglas would learn that most Natives are no different than other groups - they want to be gainfully employed, support their families, and contribute to the greater good. Second, by visiting the homes of people who have been unable to find work and must survive on government assistance, such as general assistance, food stamps, commodities, etc, Douglas might learn that such a life style is not one that anyone would intentionally choose.

  23. grudznick 2014.09.07

    Mr. C and Ms. Geelsdottir, I have no doubt Mr. C got me good again as he often does. But I do admit that it might have been a bit too highbrow for me and the entire effect may have been lost on me due to my limited intellect and education.

  24. Douglas Wiken 2014.09.07

    Bearcreekbat, I respect your perspective, but it is hard to relate that to conditions that never seem to change. Individual Native Americans may be no different than any of the rest of us. If a free lunch is available, we will accept it. If the situation is reality, it is not a stereotype. The real stereotype is that all the reservation problems are caused by evil Whites who just don't understand.

    With such a large unemployed population, somebody in that group should have the imagination, ambition and knowledge of all the talents available to devise a plan for meaningful employment. I am obviously not the person with such knowledge or time.

    It is also disengenuous to say that Native American culture is no different than any other and then hear those professing superiority of that culture professing that it is superior and something fundamentally different than the terribly flawed and destructive European culture.

    Wanting to be employed and doing nothing to get employed are fundamentally contradictory. Years ago, I watched unemployed Whites coming into stores dressed and behaving in ways guaranteeing no job offer so they could then claim no jobs were available and continue getting assistance.

    I don't want people to starve or freeze, but doing the same thing year after year and generation after generation and expecting a different result is another form of insanity.

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can lead people to education, but you can't make them accept the obvious even as they profess an acute desire for knowledge they refuse to seriously study.

    Again, the real stereotype is that all the Native American's unemployment, crime, drug abuse, single teenaged mothers with several children, etc. are the fault of evil white bastards. That is the truly harmful stereotype that hobbles development and independence.

  25. bearcreekbat 2014.09.07

    Douglas, thanks for your response. There are a couple more points to consider.

    First, when you say "It is also disengenuous to say that Native American culture is no different than any other and then hear those professing superiority of that culture professing that it is superior and something fundamentally different than the terribly flawed and destructive European culture," I think your argument actually supports my point.

    Consider the tribalism of white, Christian, America, and how that group thinks they are superior to all others. How is that any different that the tribalism you describe that some Natives hold? Here in America we have those groups who demonize and reject virtually every other group of human beings, from children trying to escape dangerous circumstances in South America to people of different races and ethnicity living in America. If anything the tribalism you describe is simply an unfortunate attitude of some people in virtually every group, whether white Christians or Natives, and in many ways is much more prevalent and harmful among those in the majority that pass laws to implement repressive and discriminatory tribalistic policies.

    Second, it has not been my experience that most Natives blame all their problems on evil white people living today. Many Natives recognize, however, that the whites in power entered in a Treaty in 1868 to stop Natives from killing whites who sought to take land from the Natives. These whites purported to live by the rule of law, and even adopted a federal Constitution that stated treaties were part of the supreme land of the land.

    Although kids in public schools are not taught what happened, many Natives also know that when gold was discovered in the Black Hills, those whites who made the Fort Laramie Treaty in 1868, decided they did not have to obey it. Instead, these whites decided that they need obey only the laws that they liked and since whites now wanted land promised to the Sioux, the Sioux were out of luck. Not only were they out of luck, they could be killed with impunity and then rounded up and forced to live a lifestyle completely foreign to them.

    So Natives, like slaves, might have a real basis to complain about the loss of the wealth and resources that the Black Hills would have provided them. They also might have a real basis to complain about being forced on to non-productive land, having their children removed and placed in religious schools intended to destroy their Native cultures.

    Historically then, Natives have many more legitimate reasons to view whites as detrimental to their way of life than vice versa. Much to most Natives' credit, however, they don't demonize modern whites absent good cause - think Cobell v. Salazar, and they still attempt to rely on the law for progress.

    But your contention that present day Natives assert that "all the Native American's unemployment, crime, drug abuse, single teenaged mothers with several children, etc. are the fault of evil white bastards," is a stereotype not propagated by the vast majority of Natives today. Indeed, I have neither read or heard of such a stereotype prior to reading your comment, except from perhaps other non-Natives who apparently feel some guilt about historical wrongs.

  26. caheidelberger Post author | 2014.09.07

    GTRock: thanks for linking to that article on Rounds's snub. He seems to think he's special and deserves a stage all to himself. Such arrogance.

  27. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.07

    Let's try another stereotype.
    ALL white farmers and ranchers living on or near a reservation are registered Republicans that hate Indians.
    They want Indians to work for them for pennies and when the Indians refuse to work for slave wages they call them lazy drug users.
    Often times these white farmers and ranchers have purchased Indian land, often at below wholesale prices. They will still complain that they paid too much for the useless Indian land.
    If they lease the land, they do so at pennies on the acre and usually over graze lands. Remember that when and if the rancher decides to pay his leases, that money is paid to the BIA not the land owner. The BIA can tie up lease income for years, in some cases all along earning interest for the government and not the land owner.
    Because they come from a farm or ranch culture it is their calling to judge Indians and their lifestyles refusing to recognize extenuating circumstances. They are the Indian Experts.
    They are self-righteous, morally and intellectually superior to Indians because they say so, yet they live in an isolated world and refuse to overcome their ignorance and racism.
    OOPS! This isn't a stereotype at all, it is not clouded by myth and legend, tribalism or values. It is a FACT!

  28. grudznick 2014.09.07

    Mr. C, I did not know that all such ranchers and farmers, the white ones anyway, were so morally superior and such. This is very bad news indeed and saddens me.

  29. Douglas Wiken 2014.09.07

    Cornelius, I no longer lease any tribal land. Mostly it has been leased by shrewd Native Americans or at least those with a few drops of Native blood who have preference. No land of any kind rents or leases for pennies an acre in this area. I have not kept track of the leasing business, but I think that the lease payments are also increased by the property tax equivalent. I purchased a paper aimed at Native Americans today and it mentioned the tribes were buying up fractional interests. I don't know if that is good or not for individual Native Americans or families. Years ago, a Native American wanted to sell me his share of a quarter of grass land that he and something over 100 others owned and it was only a half interest since a neighboring white had something like 40% of it. He drove down here from Huron. His share at that time was worth something like $8.69. I was not interested in that piece of ground anyway, but it was a surprise to me of the fractionated ownership of the land.

    Cornelius, you can keep reporting your mythology and non-facts and it may fool some people, but it serves no useful purpose in turning around unemployment on the reservations. I admit I don't know what will generate employment for Native Americans on the reservation. The economics of development in relatively remote areas is apparently quite difficult. Couple that with corruption and incompetence in tribal governments also tied into tribal and familial relationships and there is an exponential increase in the complexity and difficulty of accomplishing anything.

    If you have some idea of business or manufacturing that can work in that environment, you owe it to us and your fellows to let us know. As usual, blaming all reservation problems on Whites might help your ego, but it serves no other purpose.

    But, back to Cory's point. I do think all unemployment of all races should be included in the data if for no other reason than it might finally get the attention of state and federal government officials who can do more than wring their hands.

  30. grudznick 2014.09.07

    Indeed, Mr. Wiken has struck a tone for him which is rare. He is correct that employment figures should be reported for all persons. Perhaps if the reservations are separate countries they should be broken out and footnoted but clearly count all the people within the bounds of South Dakota.

  31. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.07

    When I had the pleasure of meeting Deb at Rickstock a few weeks ago, one of her first comments was how nice a place Madville Times had become since White Privileged Wiken wasn't posting regularly. Well, good things don't always last forever, he's back and with his typical vengeance for his Native American neighbors.
    Wiken, how dare you presume that I owe anybody anything, like most people, I don't work and advice for free and am limited in what I can do. I can no longer drive and am a distance from any of South Dakota reservations. Got any more brilliant ideas on how I should live my life?
    When my grandmother died in 1963, here significant land holdings were transferred to her 11 children and a slew of grandchildren, the land is now terribly fractionalized. As enrolled member of the tribe, an IIM (Individual Indian Money) account was established where lease income was paid. Since her estate was settled in 1964, I have never touched the account, when I last checked the account balance in 2012 there was a whopping $176 in it. When Indians talk about pennies on the acre, this is what we mean. While Indians earn pennies, the white ranchers and farmers that lease the land make significant profits.
    Regarding the tribes buying up fractionalized land being good or bad is no concern of yours, your opinion does not matter, Wiken.
    Point out to me the mythology that I have reported on that has deterred economic development on the reservation, what facts have I misrepresented to anyone. If you choose to discredit my personal experiences with your "Indian Expertise", it is you that is being duped by your own words. My experiences are mine not yours, whether you chose to believe them is as irrelevant as you are.
    You stated you no longer lease Indian land, why should I believe that?
    How much Indian land have you purchased over the years and at what price?

  32. Steve Sibson 2014.09.08

    "South Dakota once agains displays its stone age economics by not including Indians in their unemployment percentages and keeps us in the top 10 of failures across the board."

    South Dakota uses the same Keynesian economics that the rest of this country uses. Since its main goal is full employment, this post provides further proof of Keynesian failure.

  33. Douglas Wiken 2014.09.08

    Cornelius, I have never purchased any Indian land and have not leased any for something like 30 years. The leasing was a royal pain in the ass. The land was worthless as a separate entity since it had no water. The BIA wanted to limit cattle on about 3000 acres to what could be on their 320 acres. Half the land was sold, and I have no idea who if anybody leases the Indian land. We considered fencing it out which would have made it worthless, but did not do that.

    Your redefinition of "pennies per acre" makes your initial comment meaningless. You make such statements assuming everybody is ignorant of reality and you will get by with the deception.

    I have not presumed you owe anybody anything. But, if you are going to attack any discussion of anything related to reservations because they come from a White, it seems to me you owe all of us your wonderful ideas. So far they are completely absent.

    You don't have to travel anyplace to combine your incredible knowledge of the reservation with your incredible knowledge of business development. I'm sure Cory will give you space and in any case if you can get to a computer to spew your distortions, you can get to your computer to generate some good proposals.

    Until that, you are just part of the problem by providing a never-ending stream of excuses for social and economic failure on the reservations.

  34. Bill Dithmer 2014.09.08

    Cory if you want to know what's going on down on the Pine Ridge you should get ahold of both Liz May, and Kevin Killer.

    May is on both Agriculture and Natural Resources and Education committee's

    Killer is on Judiciary and State Affairs

    They were both elected by the people and both live in the heart of indian country.

    Like DW I'd also would love to hear some ideas for employment on the res. I myself have presented three plans to the tribe. They all would have been funded with private money with the tribes share mostly grants.

    The only thing i ever heard was if i had money to send it on down to Pine Ridge. Now I didn't have a financial interest in any of these business plans, only personal interest of jobs on the res.

    Its not just the state that has to do some changing, the tribes will never, and i repeat never get big companies to come if the tribes want to much control. That includes hiring, and firing. The businesses that the reservations want have been successful for many years. A lot of that success comes from a great business plan.

    If you want Rev. Hickeys plan to succeed, you will have to convince at least one of these companies to change what for them has worked.

    The Blindman

    The Blindman

  35. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.08

    Again Wilken demonstrates his "Indian Expert" status and presumes to tell me what I should do with my life.
    Wiken, I have a computer in my home with a full capability to produce any range of proposals and still some do some work. Currently I'm working on a capital campaign fund raising strategy for a non-profit that is not an Indian organization.
    Travel for economic development does require travel, sometimes rather extensively, you have to continually construction sites, arrange the purchase of equipment and raw materials, meet with investors, banks, etc.
    You cynically call my ideas wonderful without knowing what they are, here's a clue, my ideas are just that, mine. If you or anybody else wants more, write me a check.
    Now, can you absolutely prove to me that you have not leased Indian land for 30 years or are saying that because you one of culprits? Why should I believe? The same applies to how you came to own a farm in the heart of Indian country without buying land from them. Am I to believe you just because you are a white guy.
    You have repeatedly stated that I blame the white man and do nothing more than excuses. I don't blame the white man, never have, I blame the likes of you that drive a stake in the heart of any possibly reconciliation between Indians and whites.
    Rev. Hickey will hopefully take not of your type when he presents SDTRADE to the legislature, he will be met a roomful of Doug Wiken's, that is his major obstacle.
    Wiken, you are not an Indian expert by any stretch of your imagination, you are a pompous, self-righteous SOB that makes South Dakota look like the Mississippi of the north.

  36. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.08

    When will people quit trying to huge manufacturing plants on reservations, it is possible for these big money operations, but not likely.
    Economic development does not have to be industrial, it is also the small businesses in various communities that need services of all types.
    Even the community colleges and non-profits on the reservations are a part of economic growth and generally provide stable employment.
    Tribal corruption. Our resident Indian experts continually whine about tribal corruption without ever identifying specifically what is so corrupt about tribal councils. It couldn't be money, because there is so little to be had.
    For the past year Cory has been reporting extensively about what makes South Dakota one of most corrupt states in the union. The total amount of money lost on one project alone represents the total tribal budget for 5 years.
    When the Indian experts clean up their own corruption, come whine to me about the Indians.
    On the other hand, some Indian politicians have learned well from their counterparts.

  37. jerry 2014.09.08

    Zing, wise words Roger. You are correct all the way around. Anytime anyone says they are gonna bring several hundred jobs or even thousand of jobs anywhere in South Dakota, you know it is a scam. A big lie that fools the people into thinking that the overlords are looking out for us, bullshit is what it is. The ruling republican party only knows one thing, how much is it gonna fill my pockets. EB-5 is the perfect grift from a very capable group of grifters, the Rounds outfit. There is no tribal group that can or will ever compare to this band of thieves.

  38. Roger Cornelius 2014.09.08

    Thanks Jerry
    There are times when it is a good thing to go big on economic development projects, those are usually self financed and sustainable without government intervention or handouts. Those are the true businessmen that know how to produce a product and make a profit. They are a rare breed anymore.
    If there is one thing EB-5 should have taught us is that the state has no "business" in business. It is like giving every politician and their cronies the combination to the bank safe.
    Years ago I did some work with GOED, it didn't have any access to state for grants and cheap loans, but they were a tremendous research and referral source for state business, could assist with business proposals and feasibility studies.
    They were helpful in customer referrals, raw material and equipment resources and more. Where the choo choo went off the rails I don't know.

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