Last updated on 2014.03.05
At the end of April, some local boosters proposed a community thrift store for downtown Madison. The plan:
- Buy the two buildings on the corner of Egan Avenue and Southwest First Street currently the Trojan Tap and Sweet Escape Salon.
- Knock 'em down.
- Knock down the vacant Jensen building that the Lake Area Improvement Corporation bought from Rosebud.
- Build a new building to house a community thrift store run by Interlakes Community Action Partnership.
- Sell secondhand merchandise donated by area residents (no consignment sales).
- Use profits to fund "local charitable and economic support needs."
The Thrift Store Steering Committee—including Clark Sinclair, Jerry Johnson, Mechelle Johnson, Don Amert, Richard Amert, Jeff Bloom, and John Knuths—says the plan will cost $900,000. They have asked the City of Madison for $150,000 to acquire and demolish the two buildings on the corner, plus rent the wrecking ball for the Jensen building.
I thought at first this might be a good idea. Some folks with some skin in the local secondhand market thought otherwise:
- Brittany Patro, who rents one of the targeted buildings for her Sweet Escape Salon, told commissioners worries she won't have a place to serve her customers by summer's end... although interestingly, the Sweet Escape Salon's Facebook page has a note from May 16 saying the owner has "a better location in store" for her business.
- Harlan Anderson, who invested no small amount to renovate his glass shop on the west side of town to house the new Unique Boutique consignment store, expressed concerns that the city would spend money (taxpayer money, his money, your money, mine...) to create a competing business. Of course, if you're Unique, who can compete?
- Gayle Maberry, owner of the Four Seasons Flea Market, contends that a donation-based thrift store won't make it in Madison. "Why put something in town that we already have?" she says, referring apparently to her own store, which has been in business for 21 years and only this year managed to scrape together enough money to buy a decent sign.
I understand the capitalist argument against government intrusion in this sector of the market. We already have the above secondhand stores, plus Front Porch Gifts selling antiques, plus three dollar stores selling cheap junk that might as well be secondhand. Rather than entering a market that already has a number of players, perhaps we could better use public dollars to promote competition with a community car dealership, or a community grocery store, or a community farmers market diner, serving locally grown foods. (Members of the LAIC? Chamber? Care to comment?)
Or maybe we could invest $150,000 of city dollars and $900,000 total in a project that could launch all three of those businesses and more. Consider: the thrift store plan sinks a lot of public dollars and potential economic development money into a net loss of business venues. We knock down three buildings, put up one. We erase one vacant building, which is great, but we lose two other downtown business sites. Heck, we even lose one of the Corners from Madison's famous Four Corners booze hub. (Hang on, I'm already working on the Tri-Corner marketing plan to draw our hard-drinking Tea Party friends....) And we replace them with one static non-profit facility that, selling donated secondhand items, may not generate much sales tax revenue for the city and may have trouble getting saleable inventory when folks can unload their good junk at their own rummage sales.
So instead of demolishing two business sites and erecting one static project, why not scale down the plan, leave the salon and the Tap alone, and turn the Jensen building into a business incubator? Invest $150,000 into making the Jensen building usable, then rent out space to local start-ups to build their brand and market until they can afford to buy or build their own business space elsewhere in town. Then we get a much bigger and constantly recycling return on our investment, with new entrepreneurs each year providing new products, new services, and new energy.
If a downtown incubator is too much of a threat to the business status quo (and Madison loves nothing more than the status quo), then maybe the LAIC should just take its final bath on its Rosebud buyout. Bulldoze the Jensen building, turn it into a municipal parking lot, and say to the adjoining businesses, "Merry Christmas." Boosting Sweet Escape Salon, the Four Corners bars, and Lakebrook Appliance with convenient off-street parking might give downtown retail as big a boost as one more junk shop.
Besides if the Thrift Store Steering Committee really has a winning idea, they could launch it in two weeks for a quarter of the cost: just move into the abandoned Radio Shack building. We fill an empty storefront faster, we lose no business venues, and we put no public dollars into competition with private business.
At Commissioner Abraham's motion, the City Commission tabled discussion of the community thrift store for a month to gather more input. Let's hope they use this month to consider plans like what I lay out above with a better return on downtown investment.
Let's give serious thought to bringing the movie theatre back downtown. Let's enter into discussions with the owners of WTT and see what their future plans are. With digitial to be the standard in a few short months, now would be the time to consider a new move. Help the owners of WTT with an investment in a new building. Having the theatre on Egan ave. would be more handy for kids, families, plus the dining industry could get a big boost with before and after movie goers!!
I'm not from Madison but wanted to ask the people involved, why take down buildings where real estate taxes are being paid to be replaced by a building where no real estate taxes are to be paid? All of this is being done to assist people in getting rid of stuff with little or no profit margin after expenses? I am all in favor of recycling and reuse but something is wrong here. A new race to the bottom? What am I missing?
I admit that I can't quite picture the buildings, physically, in my head (other than the Trojan Tap sign), but most of the downtown buildings are old and cool. I wish people wouldn't tear them down.
That said, I don't think there's much to downtown that can actually bring business there. Off-street parking won't really help when I can't remember a time I had trouble parking downtown. I usually find a space right in front of where I'm going. A second-hand store won't help for the reasons you mentioned above.
I do agree about the old Radio Shack building. It's certainly large enough to accommodate a second hand store, and the basement adds even more (though I don't know how big that basement is, I've never been down there). I don't honestly know why they think they need a building the size of three other buildings to put their second hand goods in. It's going to be 90% empty space.
Like you've mentioned in previous posts, Cory, the best advertising for downtown needs to be done around places like Classic Corner or on Washington and 2nd St. No amount of fancy used goods stores or parking lots are going to bring anyone to downtown.
Charlie, the thing with movie theaters is that they don't necessarily make much more of a profit than a second-hand store. Not many people go to the movies, anymore, and most of the money goes right back to the studios.
I think it would at least take quite a while for a 1 or 2 screen movie theater downtown to remake the money that it costs to actually set up a movie theater.
Look at Brookings, for example. Five screens, only theater in a town much larger than Madison, and out of 5 movies I've been to there in the past year or year and a half, myself and who I've gone with have been the only people watching the movie in at least 3 of them. The only one with significantly more people was premier, and that only had maybe a twenty people in attendance.
I went to a movie at the Century Theater in Sioux Falls back in November, and there were only a dozen people there a week after the movie premiered.
If Sioux Falls and Brookings can barely get customers at their theaters, there's no way Madison can hope to compete, even if a downtown theater was the only theater in town.
Downtown movie theater! Officer thinking, Charlie! Let's put a movie house where kids (and moms and dads!) can walk or bike to it! And yes, the synergy with dining downtown would be huge! That's why I think DeLon should turn the Mason's building into a moviehouse. Burgers before the show, ice cream after! Million bucks!
Handing this store to ICAP would replicate the tax loss we saw when the city handed the other big chunk of the Rosebud buyout property to ICAP for its new HQ. I still don't see the tax advantage there.
Carter, I wonder: which building would best fit a movie theater: a new one on the Jensen building lot, the old Radio Shack, or the Masonic Temple?
I stand by my thought that a movie theater would fail, but I would think the Masonic Temple might fit a small one, if one were to be build. Radio Shack isn't tall enough without knocking out he ceiling/floor of the upper level, and I would be surprised if that's even feasible without knocking down and rebuilding the whole thing.
Then again, I've never been inside the Masonic Temple to know what the inside is like.
A new building on the Jensen lot (especially if you were to take down the Trojan Tap and Sweet Escape Salon) would probably fit a theater the best, though. Movie Theaters, to my mind, kind of beg for a custom fit building, otherwise it would be a bit unwieldy. Movie theaters are very deep buildings, remember, if you want to have a capacity higher than two dozen.
Many Madison residents are against this...and they are very vocal.
What else could we do with the over $1 million to create jobs and opportunities for our young people so they stay in Madison to raise the next generation?
I am not saying that the thrift store would not be a good thing. Could we do even better?
I have always thought a decent movie theatre would be GREAT right inbetween Lewis and Montgomerys. Plenty of parking. I think it would be a draw to Madison from out-of-towners, especially if they had weekend matinees. Good opportunities for teens (or anyone for that matter) to have part-time jobs too. My hubby and I went to a movie last week for the first time in about a year at WTT and it was sad how run down that place is :(
Back to the Community Thrift Shop, I think it's a great idea in theory, but it upsets me to have someone's *thriving* business be threatened with being demolished. Brittany has put SO much work put into her salon and turned an empty building downtown into something great. I heard or read that the Community Thrift Building also wants to house the Food Pantry in the future, so that is probably why the Radio Shack location won't be sufficient.
That's the key question, Michael. When money's tight (and the city is still maxed out on lending capacity, right?), we have to look not just for good ideas, but the best ideas.
Paula: the Radio Shack building is pretty big. They were running two separate stores in there before moving across the street. Smiths moved because it was more space than they needed. Plus, there's that big basement area, which is in great shape. Do you think that space could hold the thrift shop and food pantry?
This Thrift store idea would have been great about five years ago. But in the last few years we've seen the addition of two new consignment stores, (Unique Boutique and 2nd Closet) a new dollar store, an expanded 4 Seasons, and as Paula said, a thriving new Salon.
Cory I challenge your research skills. How many times, in response to complaints about a lack of retail options, have you recorded city leaders telling those with complaints to start their own business? I bet I've been to three City Commission meetings where the mayor has said that.
Well here these people have done what was asked, and now the city is going play executioner and decide who lives and who dies? It sends a horrible message to those who might want to start a business. And despite what some committee members have said, this will directly compete with those consignment stores.
I am grateful that there is an effort to continue to revitalize that end of downtown, but this is not the way to do it at this time.
And on the note of vacant buildings and dreams, the empty storefront north of ATT wireless on Egan would make an ideal independent film/performing arts theater, with stacked seating for around 100ish, room for a modest gallery, and a huge plus, a large garage door in the rear for load-ins/outs, already freshly renovated...just saying.
Matt, I very distinctly recall then-Chamber director, now LAIC director Julie Gross saying exactly that in the August 2011 Chamber newsletter: "If you’d like to see a store that sells XX, have you considered opening a store? If there’s an organization that you think should provide a specific service or if you have an idea to help them fundraise, have you considered joining their group? I know there are people all over Madison with awesome ideas – some of you get involved and some of you don’t. Put it on your bucket list to get involved and make a difference in Madison."
Your comments, Matt, reinforce my thinking that a business incubator would be a better solution. Instead of picking one industry in which to permanently interfere, the city could open the door for newcomers in a variety of markets. But I wonder: does a publicly-subsidized incubator create unfair competition against established businesses?
Ooooh, a gallery! It seems an outfit like that would synergize with existing venues rather than compete with them.
Now, 150k from the city, and I'll start next week....lol...but hey, we could be bringing in lots of regional/national touring acts that play smaller independent venues, $10-15 tickets, toss in a juice bar during the events, longer art exhibitions, independent films...there's a model for this too that comes to mind.
I haven't talked to one person in town who likes this idea. Okay, so I haven't talked to a booster - but everyone else thinks it's a really bad idea. Among the reasons to oppose it:
(1) Isn't Madison already the home of thift/used stores? Two dollar stores, Loopy's, the Flea Market, the Pawnshop, 2nd chance, Unique Boutique, the Front Porch, etc.?
(2) If it's such a great idea, why doesn't Clark Sinclair put it in the old Montgomery's Building that has been sitting empty for ages?
(3) No consignments, eh? Just donated stuff? Why should the citizens of Madison just GIVE the thrift store stuff to sell? And, if they do, won't it all be crap, that basically otherwise would go in the landfill? And who on earth would buy it?
(4) What are the "boosters" getting out of it? Besides Amerts getting a contract for a new building?
(5) Is it true that if the cost is under a million, the city can just decide without taking it to the voters?
All these questions - and many more - need answers.
This proposal seems like a good way to cleanup some very old downtown buildings. Interesting that we can compete with existing thrift stores, but the LAIC and City Commission did not want to get involved in my efforts to bring a second grocery store or a large retailer to town through land donations, tax incentives, etc. because it would compete with the existing businesses in those sectors. So why would it be okay to do this with a community thrift store when there are a number of these stores already?
We are also missing the larger point that there is a VERY ACTIVE Facebook community in Madison using what is called "Recycle-Path", "Items-Wanted" and other groups that are selling second hand items directly to fellow Facebookers. It is a BIG hit with many in town. Add on other online selling tools, like Craig's list, and much of the second-hand market is locked up.
I agree it would be nice to have a community owned place where we can have a store similar to a Goodwill, but a $900,000 building? I think it is crazy that Clark Sinclair is involved, but hasn't publicly put forth the idea of renting out his now empty building on mainstreet (The former Montgomery's... Then Radio Shack). The building is huge! Why not rent this building out? Heck, donate the rent money back to the community group and get a tax write-off. Give it a try for a year in that building and see how it goes! If you really need a big new building, prove it first.
I like the idea of being able to help ICAP and other community groups through the profits, but this is going to be a tough sell.
As for a movie theater or a performance venue... I would love to see this. I have said for years we need to move entertainment options into the downtown stores. If I had the money, I would build a state of the art 3-Plex theater downtown in a minute. I would also love to own a club where we could have bands, performers, comedy shows, etc., a couple nights a week. My two goals would be to help bring people downtown to help revitalize our community and make enough money to break even. You don't need to get rich, just break even. This small-town has to realize there are things you do for the community, and not for large profits. Make enough money to employ some people and break even at the end of the year. Unfortunately, the big names are getting the big bucks for all their big projects.
Mainstreet has been in decline for a number of years. While I think knocking down old buildings and building new stores would be a start for making our downtown more visually pleasing, I am afraid this approach would leave more storefronts open in the end and does little to address the retail problem that we are experiencing. We have enough open storefronts that need to be filled. At least consider renting one and giving this thrift store a try before committing so much money to a new building. We may have to have a "socialist" community effort to bring in specialty stores, entertainment, and more. The profit margins may never be large enough for one person to take the risk. But if we agree as a community that there is a need, then we should use tax money to address that need. Filling empty storefronts should be a priority.
Anyone want to give me city and county money for a community grocery store or a community entertainment complex? :)
Hey, we're doing pretty good for soliciting community input so far! Keep it coming! Is anyone forwarding this conversation to our city commission?
What kills me is they want to use "Forward Madison 2" program money for this project. Half the money that is being raised and used in "Forward Madison 2" was supposed to be for retail development downtown. I was told by some individuals to "Just wait, we have a big downtown project coming." -- Well if this is it, I am not impressed. It will not fill store fronts in downtown, and it very well could put a couple stores out of business. Let's focus on new specialty retail, services, and entertainment. Let's fix up all the storefronts, not just knock down two buildings and fix one. Let's get community funds into improving all the businesses downtown.
As I have said before, let's build a second grocery store.
Check out our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/madisonsd
Citizens for Real Economic Development in Madison, SD!! (Not just retail anymore)
While your at it...
Stop on over to the new "Madison All Class Reunion" page and "Like" the reunion. This event will be a big economic win on "Crazy Days" weekend - July 27th, 2013. We are working to bring 1,000s of former students back home. Help our effort! https://www.facebook.com/MadisonAllClassReunion
Events like this will help economic development.
Hmm, 1000s of MHS alums... in town visiting... what might we offer for them to spend their money on...
...junk from our closets?
...movies?
...unique locally made items?
Well, Art in the Park will be happening at the same time, and crazy days downtown. I agree the merchandise downtown has been limited the last few years.
As for the reunion. We will be holding reunion festivities for families in the morning and afternoon, followed by a music festival in the afternoon and evening. The eateries and lodging spots should see a big increase in traffic. Hopefully, people stop by the retail shops too. Maybe we will have some awesome new stores by Summer 2013?
Here's my number.... call me.. maybe? Isn't what that hot new pop song is all about?
If you ask me, I think the future for local businesses (including Madison Downtown) is going to be in services and perhaps niche products.
The thing is, Madison already has a hard enough time competing with Sioux Falls. It also has to compete more and more with online retail, such as Amazon, which is only going to become bigger and bigger. If we focus on retail stores, Madison won't gain much, if anything at all, especially not in the long run.
Rather, focusing on immediate-need items (like groceries), niche items (the things you won't find on Amazon, or won't find much of on Amazon, and only find on high shipping-price sites), and services that can't be delivered electronically, will have a bigger and longer impact.
Madison is a college town. How about a bar/nightclub that doesn't play country music? I mean something like 9 Bar in Brookings. I'm not sure, but I don't think Madison has anything like that, and it would probably prove quite successful during the school year. The summer can be filled with events, like concerts in the park. That will attract business for the other places from out of town, if the concerts are worthwhile.
Cory, I am one that did start his own business. Let me tell you: it has been a wild ride. I have no problems with the Mayor and others encouraging people to step up and take a shot. Go for it!
Hmm... Carter... a college-oriented dance club from September to May, then retool as a family/tourist-oriented concert spot for the summer months? Maybe such a venue could become the home of a downtown Friday night concert series, like what Spearfish does all summer outside on Main Street?
Michael, if the city will hand me $150K, it might be worth my time.
Mike I was just wondering if you would have considered renting a building in Madison, when you were starting your business, if it would have been subsidized somewhat by the city. Something like what Cory is talking about , this incubator thing?
Cory, I think maybe a PG-PG13 range for concerts might be a good target. The people who pay the most money for things are teenagers and parents paying for teenagers, so they might be a good target. Then the concerts get the college students and tweens on the ends, plus the young adults if the whole thing is done right.
My line of thinking is somewhat along your "tourist-oriented" thing. For any real amount of money to come into Madison, we need to think outside Madison. What can be done that Madison can do better than, say, Brookings? What can be done that will get people to drive here and spend money?
I think concerts might be a good start, as long as the time, effort, and a bit of money goes into making them good enough for people to drive here for. Plus, what about something that doesn't really exist around here?
In Seattle, they have this neat little place called Pike's Place Market that's a mostly-indoor, somewhat-outdoor market with all kinds of little shops and stalls. Obviously, Madison couldn't do something that big, but what about instead of trying to come up with one store that somehow makes it big, we focus on lots of little stores and things. Hats, scarves, fresh fruits, vegetables, and other foods (pasta? Baked goods?), and mix it up with a fun kind of atmosphere. It might get Madison people to go there for shopping, and might be a fun place to go for people who come to town for summer events.
Like a less ridiculously cowboy-oriented Wall Drug.
All right, how about this: combine the weekly Main Street concerts with the local farmers market and other locally made products. Come downtown, pick up some locally made bread and veggies—heck, maybe get a whole local meal of local beef stew or burgers, and enjoy some outdoor music and dancing. People will drive for an experience....
I think that would be pretty successful. It could even be something of an all day or all weekend extravaganza. Throw in some performing arts and independent films playing at Chris' theater, and Madison could have itself a May-August fair every weekend.
Instead of putting $900,000 into a crappy Goodwill store, half the amount could make a damn fine fair. South Dakota is lacking in fairs.
Thinking about it, I'm a bit concerned with the longevity, though. Would events like that be novel enough that people would keep coming back often enough to turn a profit for Madison? Maybe variation is the key. Occasional themed weekends?
We just had a flood (with loss of life), so if we have some extra money, how about spending it to buy that land north of town for the retention dam, or put back up valves in the mains so people don't get sewer back up, or assist people to make repairs. Ninety homes they say were damaged. I like thrift stores more than most people, but let's prioritize.
If Gayle Mayberry can make a for-profit business work I'm having a hard time understanding why a non-profit couldn't make it without a handout.
Flood meeting tonight, 7:00. I vote for dry basements!
I have the same concerns that people above voiced. Where is the money coming from to spend almost a million dollars on a new store that probably will not generate enough to pay its own expenses, let alone finance some community services? Why is the city considering this when it didn't consider investing in the new school renovation, which was also touted as community development economically? Who will pay for this if it fails to perform? Is there a secondary reason a new building is being pushed by the steering committee (the city/LAIC already owns part of this property)? They state that they will be coming to the county also for money - how much, as this is where it directly affects me? If a huge share of this million dollars is being provided by grants etc, that is still taxpayer money, and that directly affects all of us. It's not free money.
Use existing empty space for this. If it proves successful in paying its own way and also generating income for community services after several years, then consider spending for a new building if necessary. But to start out spending this much money on an unproven venture is unwise, especially in these economic times.
Retail businesses are brutal. You have to be anal about everything. It's hard to get started and continued success is not guaranteed. Giving large handouts is bad fiscal policy. Helping guide startups to success makes more sense. A small grant or loan could make a huge difference, but training is where we could create the greatest impact with our dollars. We have had mentors help us to get where we are now.
Barry, I don't know if a storefront in Madison would've been a better choice than what we have now. We did not take that path.
We shouldn't shut the door on a thrift store. City leaders should look at the risks and benefits very closely before writing any checks.
Cory, while I applaud the folks for working to make their town better, let me tell you definitively, based on 27 years of lending billions of dollars, that the project will fail. There is simply no possible way a thrift store can service 750,000 dollars (900k-150 city equity) in debt. None. I've done dozens of Goodwill stores, etc and know the economics.
It is a common, common mistake Troy and I have seen many, many times. Community groups focus on brick and mortar instead of cash flow. By all means, do the store, but: find an existing empty facility with low rent to do it in. Starting out with a nice new building and a mountain of debt guarantees failure. Start small and lean, establish the market and build a sizable balance sheet before going in to debt. Give the project a much, much higher chance of being a long term asset to the community.
Please, please, please tell me the thrift store committee, the LAIC, and the city commission are reading this thread, and especially the above comment from a banker who knows his stuff.
The original plan brought to Mr. Sinclair was one that Cory mentioned. It was to get help to rent a storefront in town to sell and or distribute donated goods and be run by ICAP. I wasn't told how it ballooned into what was presented.
Basically you could go in and buy stuff that was donated, or when the need arose (like after a fire or flood) people would be sent there to get stuff to get them by or replace what might have been lost.
And a question to Gayle Maberry: which gas station, church, bar, dollar store, restaurant, bank will be the one to stay open? Obviously we only need one of each. It's thinking like that that has limited this town for a long time.
Jim, I agree that the scarcity mentality holds Madison's economy back. Too many businesspeople in Madison fear that a new entrant in the market will cut a finite local pie into smaller pieces. They fail to recognize that a new entrant can expand the pie.
The Four Seasons flea market appears to have fallen victim to this fear by buying out the store next door to drive another merchant off "her" block, a merchant who was differentiating her store with more expensive products. Instead of recognizing that a neighboring store targeting a slightly different market could draw more customer traffic, Four Seasons chose to expand and monopolize.
We should all want to see more vendors filling more storefronts on Main Street. The proposed thrift store plan unnecessarily kicks two going businesses off Main Street in favor of an unprofitable and thus unsustainable business model.
The store to the south went bust. The building's owner offered it to her, she bought it and has made improvements. She knows businesses can build on each other. But I'll say this, who wouldn't be concerned about competing against an organization that doesn't pay taxes, gets their merchandise for free, and has their hand out from the very beginning. She supports her family, employs people, does consignment and many people have booths there. She provides a service. That's the way business is supposed to work.
MHS (using a real name) should send an email to Mayor Hexom and give him the scoop.
Dry basements for everyone!
Fair enough: if that store went bust, then something is better than nothing.
Madison's businesspeople need to embrace local competition... but the more I think through the thrift store plan, the more I am convinced that it is absolutely the wrong way for the city to promote competition.
By the way, have the thrift store promoters presented a formal business plan to the city or county?
Scarcity mentality?!?! We are not victims of a city-wide conspiracy.
Economics and technology has changed how big the pie is and how it is distributed. The pie has even changed flavors.
We can buy almost anything we want over the internet and delivered to our doorstep cheaper than a local merchant can stock it. Specialty stores have become showrooms for customers to touch and feel the product before ordering online.
It used to be a big deal to go to Sioux Falls. You might hop in the car once a month and go to the Western Mall. Now it's common to go once or twice a week to go shopping or out to eat and catch a movie.
Unless you can drive customers to your store and get them to spend some cash on a consistent basis, it doesn't matter how much money the city or LAIC throws your way because you will ultimately fail.
Cash flow is king. Let's say that you decide to quit your good full-time job at $40K a year and open a store. You want to hire a couple of employees and of course we have overhead to pay for too: rent, insurance and utilities. Don't forget about marketing and advertising costs. We are already way over a $100,000. We haven't even touched our cost of goods yet. Let's assume that your profit on any item is 50% which is probably unattainable for most businesses. In order to make everything work, you'll need to have sales of at least $500-$800 every day of the year - EVERY DAY of the year! We are not talking on just the good days, but every day. That doesn't happen. There are slow times when the phone doesn't ring very often or customers don't come through the door. The employees still have to be paid and the landlord will still expect their rent. When you do get really busy, you end up having to hire extra help and work monster hours yourself. Not everyone can deal with this reality.
I agree with Mr. Hess. It has become clear that we need to spend money on infrastructure. Flood prevention, new streets, water system, etc. Spend the money the City has on improving the infrastructure.
These requests for MORE money (like the Thrift store, Golf Course, etc.) are in addition to what we already give the LAIC and Chamber. Why are we supplementing this budgets more and more? Why are we giving tax kickbacks?
I know Mr. Abraham will ask these questions... everyone else on the commission, time will tell.
Michael, the scarcity mentality isn't a conspiracy theory. It's what we hear regularly when Madison considers expanding business. It's what sent I-29 to Brookings instead of Madison. It is a deep part of Madison's psyche.
Your business analysis is solid. Have the thrift store promoters written a business plan to address those numbers?
Just to clarify. The plan presented to the County commission included a request for funding and an explination that the group hopes to conduct public fund-raising so that construction is possible when there's a commitment for all the funding needed. The county was told that this group is well aware that it won't cash flow if it is built and handed over with a construction debt. The $150,000 is just for purchase of the buildings and demolition. Another $900,000 is for construction.
A million bucks? For a thrift store? Does Madison have a need that justifies that expense?
Is the $900,000 going to be entirely from public fundraising? And a commitment is entirely different from money in the bank. Circumstances change, and even with the best of intentions all the committed monies won't come in. What then? Madison won't benefit from a spanking new building downtown. The idea might be sound,but to spend a million dollars on a new building when other less expensive and just as feasible options are already available is poor planning. Again, who will benefit monetarily from the new building?
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Cory, it sounds like you were speculating here. Not very nice what you wrote since it doesn't sound like it was true...thank you John Hess for clearing it up. Have to throw my two cents in. Besides there has been several businesses in that location in the last several years which don't seem to survive. I don't think that has anything to do with 4Seasons.
The above was in reference to your post about 4Seasons "buying out a business and monopolizing her block"
No problem, Paula. I withdraw the argument for now and regret any distraction it may have caused from the main point here: what's the best use of our public dollars for downtown?
The problem is that these groups still seem very out of touch with what the majority of citizens want in town. Unfortunately, only 14% voted in the last city election.
I know that Mr. Abraham is standing up to the status quo. I am hoping Mr. Waldner will use his technology skills to get a two-way conversation going with the public. We can start by adding a "City Poll" to the City's website. For big ticket items, create and post an informal poll to see where your constituents stand and solicit more public comment. Then SERIOUSLY take public opinion into consideration.
CAH:
You know that one of the steering committee members lives less than 1/2 of a mile away from your current residence, right? Maybe hop on the bike and get an exclusive interview about why he feels it is a worthy endeavor?
How do you get to this Recycle Path? I found Items Wanted by searching Items Wanted Madison SD, but couldn't find anything for Recycle Path.
This town needs another grocery store so the one we have is not a monopoly. Sunshine prices are often twice as high as prices in Hyvee or Walmart. Sunshine knows they can charge whatever they want because there is no rival. Why not use the Radio Shack store as a trial for a thrift store The area behind that store has the perfect place for drop offs.. oh and by the way..a thrift store needs a truck for deliveries or large pick ups. Who will provide the truck and the gas for the truck? Who will insure the truck and the drivers? The proposed new thrift store is huge! Theutility billsMadison doesnt need a thrift store! 4 Seasons has just about anything you can think of and she is expanding even more to make clothing more accessable. Look at the photos from the 60's and past..Madison had a thriving main street with clothing, hardware,a movie theatre and more. I have heard that to rent a building downtown is astronomical so the buildings sit empty. Lower rents! Encourage new businesses to come to Madison. The convenience of a market and yes a nice theatre would be great..look at downtown Sioux Falls and see what good thinking creates. I encourage everyone who thinks this thrift store is a bad idea to unite. Petition. Vote. Use that money for something that will create good jobs,improve our town! The Red Owl was once on main street and from groceries, a nice ice cream from the Dairy Queen or a stop at J.C. Pennys kept business in Madison. We are getting a Shopko. We should have a Hyvee. Smaller outlying towns and farm people would come to Madison. The potential is there. A thrift store would not help.
My apologies for the goof. I hit the wrong button. Who makes the final decision on the thrift store proposal? I hope those who say no are heard and that money is used for something intelligent.
Jeri, thanks for the note! There are lots of moving parts, but the final decision, I assume, rests with the committee that wants to start the store. If they wanted to open the trial in the old Montgomery's/Radio Shack, Clark Sinclair and friends could do that Monday morning, without needing anyone else's approval or public funding. If the project hinges on receiving public funding, then the final decision rests with your city and county commissioners. Contact them here:
City commission: http://cityofmadisonsd.com/index.asp?Type=B_LIST&SEC={E239BE49-0719-4FD6-9E36-A0F9454F5B4C}
County commission: http://lakecountysd.com/commissioners/index.html
Grocery store and movie theater downtown: they worked before; they could work again! And yes, such retail ventures would draw more customers and more dollars than a thrift store where folks can't count on finding what they need. But I wonder: what can the city do to draw such businesses? Are we better off getting our tax dollars entirely out of economic development and letting the market decide?
From talking with many other Madison residents - for a long time, I might add - I KNOW that another grocery store would do a booming business. A lot of people are fairly ticked off at the high prices at Sunshine, and the ones who aren't are the ones who only pop in for a gallon of milk or something, and do their major shopping in Sioux Falls. And a grocery store needs some help getting started: the inventory, etc., is more than the average person can handle to start up.
I was invited to join Recycle Path by a helpful reader. There's a lot of commerce going on out there!
As an economic development director in a small community in WI, (and formerly Downtown Brookings, SD)...we are building a Four Season Center for the Arts in our community for $750,000. Revitalizing a historic building, not tearing them down. All privately funded, and compliments the area's creative industries (Which Madison should be doing...you are a college town! - you should be thinking like a college town). Wow...using tax dollars for this would be a complete sham and waste. You need a vision for what your community is going to do. Get somebody in there who will help you create that vision for the a long-term plan that the whole community has input into...and uses your assets to the fullest. Not this horse-poo. Yikes. Need some help? Email me downtownplanner@live.com...I would be happy to meet with you for free, so you don't make a mistake you can't reverse. I am in Aurora, SD every month...feel free.
P.S. Why don't don't they take that money and hire someone to think about these things?
Revitalizing a historic downtown building into an arts center... Mr. Seward! Could you be thinking of something like this 2010 plan to renovate Madison's vacant Masonic temple?
By the way, the Madison Chamber of Commerce is hiring a new director. They might pay you to think about things like this!
So why didn't it happen? Great idea...no follow through?
The building is privately owned; they indicated a desire to wait.