A reader with a keen interest in the District 9 House race expressed deep disappointment with a flyer sent out by the South Dakota Democratic Party criticizing Hartford Republican Rep. Bob Deelstra. The reader is a vocal Democrat, but thinks such negative campaigning is beneath her party.
I haven't seen the flyer yet, but I have managed to get the text in question:
FRONT: Bob Deelstra Stuck us with the bill.
BACK: Our families are paying for Bob Deelstra's unpaid bills. Property owners pay higher taxes for local schools, families pay higher tuition for college, and seniors pay higher premiums for health care because Bob Deelstra cut funding for K-12 schools, higher education, and Medicaid. When Bob Deelstra cuts, South Dakota families are stuck with the bill. This November 6, send Bob Deelstra packing for sticking you with the bill.
Hmmm... it's not exactly the kind of negative distraction that Kristi Noem and the Republican Party run, manufacturing bogus arguments and insulting talent, education, and world travel to defend a do-nothing Congresswoman. In his first term in Pierre, Deelstra has supported a Republican budget regime that shifts more costs away from the state and down to the local and individual level. Pointing that out doesn't strike me as an underhanded smear; it's a simple statement that the party Deelstra chooses to dance with has some bad budget priorities.
That Sioux Falls paper may not read the flyers, but it has denied Deelstra its endorsement. Instead, the paper plays the extremes, endorsing the arguably more conservative GOP incumbent Rep. Rev. Steve Hickey and the clearly more correct Democrat Paula Hawks. I think the Sioux Falls paper just wants a juicier, more conflict-riddled District 9 delegation so they can sell more newspapers in Hartford.
I find Rep. Rev. Hickey good for blogging, too. He's one of the more rational religious radicals on the South Dakota political scene, and I whole-heartedly back his anti-usury efforts. Hickey also does the best job of publicly documenting his stances on the issues.
However, on one crucial ballot measure, Hickey is flat wrong. After sending some mixed signals last winter, Hickey voted for HB 1234, the Governor's really bad education plan. He continues to stump for that bill as Referred Law 16 on our ballot. Deelstra voted against HB 1234 last winter. Hawks jumped into the House race this summer in part because of her opposition to HB 1234 and her desire to bring her teaching experience to the Legislature to fight for education policy based on professional knowledge rather than ideology.
Dems are right to criticize Rep. Deelstra for his support of the Governor's radical and ongoing cuts to K-12 education, but Rep. Hickey has supported that same budget agenda, plus the school-wrecking policies of HB 1234/Referred Law 16. If you're voting on education in District 9, you really have only one good choice: Paula Hawks.
Bonus Web Layout Fun: Deelstra opposes Referred Law 16, but he's not exactly shouting about it. Check out his campaign web page on ballot issues:
To boost corporate welfare, Bob gives Referred Law 14 a regular epistle in 14-point font. He gives Referred Law 16 two lines and 10-point font. What, Bob, afraid the Governor's going to hear? It's Referred Law 16: it deserves 16-point font!
Just 5 days ago on this blog Rep. Hickey wrote: "If the voters fire me I'll thank them - I have a variety of others things needing greater attention."
That would make a good postcard to voters. No spin needed.
"I find Rep. Rev. Hickey good for blogging, too. He's one of the more rational religious radicals on the South Dakota political scene"
I can understand why an atheist would think that. Those who use discernment based on the Bible would differ. Here is Hickey's postion on apostles:
Leadership Journal is perhaps THE journal of journals for non-charismatic evangelical church leaders. It has its roots in Billy Graham and Christianity Today. It’s contributors are THE who’s who in the evangelical world – Willow Creek, Saddleback, etc. This was the camp that produced me, and then spit me back out when I started pointing out the Bible lists more apostles than just the Twelve.
You can imagine my delight to flip through my latest copy of Leadership Journal (Spring ’08 – it’s not online yet) to discover the issue has two feature articles saying what I’ve been saying for a dozen years (and what the New Testament has been saying for 2000 years.) Apostles exist today!!!
http://stevehickey.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/evangelicals-discover-apostles-do-exist-today/
Here is the political danger of that postion:
"C. Peter Wagner issued a letter late last week that discusses the recent controversy about the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and International House of Prayer (IHOP) in the media and the American political scene.
Wagner's letter, titled "THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION: An Update" was issued for the apparent purpose of doing damage control over the recent characterization of the NAR as a Dominionist cult, especially in the mainstream press. Recent public attention in the media has shed light on his entire NAR empire, and his letter indicates that he is very concerned about their image. He begins his letter with the sentence, "Surprisingly, the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) has recently become a topic of discussion in the political media."
Surprisingly? But what else could he expect? His group of self-appointed, self-anointed apostles and prophets, which has grown and thrived under the radar for over a decade in charismatic circles, has within the past year and a half come out as a key player in American Religious Right politics, beginning with the extraordinary May Day prayer event at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C. on May 1, 2010."
"And through its Dominionist goals, the NAR hopes that its network can superimpose itself over existing community, cultural and governmental structures across the land, which is referred to as the Seven Mountains."
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/08/c-peter-wagner-spins-nar.html
Sibby when will you realize your degree from the University of Google means nothing? You have no idea what you are talking about on that topic and again you misrepresent me. You're forgiven. You my friend have far crazier theological quirks than I do. Geesh.
And Rotschach - thanks for putting half my statement there. Who needs that whole context thing anyway.
You are welcome, Rep. Hickey. I did put your whole statement in about thanking the voters if they fire you because you have other more important things to do. That point stands on its own.
And smearing my good name isn't very big of you.
[CAH: Smearing online nicknames incurs no penalty. Carry on. ;-)]
Mr. Hickey, I don't need a degree from Fuller Theological Seminar to learn how to read. Funny that I am accused of misrepresentation when google sent me to your church website.
2 Corinthians 11
I hope you will put up with me in a little foolishness. Yes, please put up with me! 2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
5 I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.â€[a] 6 I may indeed be untrained as a speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way. 7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. 10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Sibby you didnt get that second quote frome website . This post is on education in SD ? I'll discuss apostles some other time with you but only after you answer what unasked you the last time you brought this up : how many named apostles are in the New Testament? Now I have a second question for you : why are you full of malice toward me?
Rorschach - its out of context . I haven't smeared you . However you sure enjoy smearing me at every opportunity.
Sorry about the typos. In a hurry and typing on the phone keyboard .
It's o.k. Rep. Hickey. I forgive you for your butchering of my pseudonym.
There is a difference between pointing out truthful things about your legislative record and "smearing". I have pointed out that you haven't passed any bills as a legislator despite being part of a 2/3 GOP majority. I pointed out that when the Governor really needed your vote, you voted for a bill you personally called your "least favorite" and thereafter garnered a favorable endorsement from the Governor for your re-election. This you did despite overwhelming opposition from your constituents. I have pointed out that while you claim to favor accountability for teachers and schools, you voted for a bill that lets the governor and his appointees hand out taxpayer money as gifts to big corporations without any accountability. I have pointed out that with your votes you have prioritized corporate welfare ahead of school funding. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to point these things out again.
"That Sioux Falls paper" is a good way to refer to it. I don't know anybody that admits to reading it anymore, and I have even given up trying to read their blogger that is supposed to be an independent voice. Their "endorsements" are their pride and joy and people quit listening years ago.
The state of old world journalism in SD is sad. I don't often agree with the point of view of the Mitchell Daily Republic, but that paper seems to do a better job of covering state politics than RC, SF or Pierre papers. I don't read the AAN often anymore since I live in SF, but they used to be decent too.
I probably wouldn't vote for Rev Hickey, but I'm not in his district. I must say I like the way he verbally pimp slaps Sibby.
Malice? Helping you understand that you have been deceived by a false apostle? How many false apostles are mentioned in the New Testament?
"This post is on education in SD ?"
Isn't education one of the Seven Mountains?
Rorschach - Ah. My apologies for putting a T in your name instead of an R. It certainly wasn't intentional - they are right next to each other on my keyboard and with my big thumbs it was an unfortunate error. I don't like it when people put a D or a ST instead of the H in my last name so I hope you'll believe it wasn't intentional and it's not something I'd do.
But, I'll repost the entirety of my comments which you have taken out of context and also include my responses to your tired smears...
“Rorschach - if you'll simmer down and look closer at the bills I proposed you'll notice they weren't things that Republicans have much zeal for... reining in our immoral usury laws, cutting the amounts bank trustees can take from the bankrupt poor, opening our courts to all the victims of child sex abuse, putting teeth back in our speeding laws,etc. A few of those went down because I tried to bite off too much and all of them are big and therefore multi-year challenges. Did any other freshman legislators try any big bills (ones that flew in the face of Republican priorities) and get them through successfully? I don't know of any.
You guys have obviously bought into the partisan rhetoric that removing tax obstacles is "corporate welfare." Here's the deal on that: welfare is when you give money and it's gone. This is priming a pump which produces a vital, long term revenue flow that is essential to substantially addressing the eduction funding shortages which is the legislature's perennial struggle. And it's not no-strings attached tax breaks. These companies have to meet a criteria of dollars invested in our state with a corresponding benefit to our state of jobs and tax revenue. Very measurable. Dollars invested in economic development are investments in South Dakota education.
… I called it my least favorite bill of the session and the reason was because we were moving ahead with needed ed reform and it wasn't being driven by the ed community. But that changed and was fixed in the bill - implementation was pushed out to 2016 and all the key players would be the ones figuring out how to proceed.
Rorschach, which is it? You've smeared me by saying I can't get anything passed in Pierre and then you point out I was the deciding, hold out vote in the biggest piece of Legislation that was passed. From my vantage point I used that leverage to go into the governors office with a book (It's My Ship) and tell him I think there is a way to do ed reform where the people take ownership of their own ship. There were a zillion factors and people in play so I have no allusions that I made it happen but the end result was this thing was slowed down, changed, and all the players involved have until 2016 to figure it out.
If the voters fire me I'll thank them - I have a variety of others things needing greater attention. It'd be hard to get any busier than I am and certainly my identity isn't wrapped up in being there. Knowing I can lead and make a contribution I signed up to serve. You're welcome.â€
[CAH: What? Seriously? Unintentional T? I guess you'd better be sure to clear that version out of your autocorrect!]
Sibby - what church do you belong to?
Speaking of malice:
"Sibby - I can appreciate that you feel blacklisted. There is no list. But it surely feels that way to you - blocked from blogs, scorned by or not taken seriously by elected officials, etc. Some of that is real, some is perceived by you. What have you sown to reap these things? Accusations, saying things not true, wild theories and relentless references to stuff most consider fringe (new world order, etc). We share many things in common with our views on politics and religion but respect is earned and being reasonable is a minimum requirement to getting people to listen to you."
https://madvilletimes.com/2012/10/too-much-democracy-in-initiated-measure-15-or-not-enough/#comment-87334
So it seems that you are a participate in the effort to paint me as a radical. Unfortunately that may be distracting you from fully entertaining the possibility that the NAR could be the Harlot setting up the Beast (New World Order). What does the Bible say about mockery?
In addition, it is through education that UNESCO is setting up the New Age spirituality for the New World Order. That truth needs to be dismissed, so you can go ahead and gain brownie points from the Establishment by painting me as a nutcase. The deceptions have to go forward. The question becomes, will Steve Hickey be a part of the deception or not?
I'll admit, Rep. Hickey, that I used the term "smearing" up above simply to get a rise out of you since you seem to view every factual statement about your own record as a "smear." It apparently worked, as you have doubled down on your victim routine. Feel free to shed as many crocodile tears as you want. And congratulations on your Argus endorsement.
Rep. Hickey, There are so many variations that can be made of the name Hickey, as you have pointed out. While I believe your misspelling of my pseudonym was a typographical error, please note that I have never, either accidentally or on purpose, made light of your name though the opportunity to do so has always been there. My criticisms of you have been policy-based, not name-based.
"Sibby - what church do you belong to?"
Brought up as a Catholic, studied with Jehovah witnesses, studied New Age spirituality, attended several evangelical denominations, but not a member of any. My main theological source is my daily read of Scripture. Unfortunatley, that began only three years ago. Fortunatley better late than never. Currently taking religion classes at DWU and reading through a stack of books as I prepare a research paper on the 60's Rock n Roll impact on today's postmodern culture. Perhaps I can add C Peter Wagner's post-denominational component to the postmodern analysis. Why God scattered those at the Tower of Babel makes for an interesting question, now doesn't it? Puts to question the source of the United Nations agenda. And again, UNESCO is in charge of implementing Agenda 21. The "E" stands for education and the "C" stands for culture, in case you did not know.
No malice in that paragraph I wrote, Sib. Look the word up if you don't understand it. Reread the paragraph - I was actually trying gently to help you get along better with people and to get you to quit bearing false witness against the rest of us.
So now you are broadcasting that I'm deceived, part of the Harlot which sets up the beast, that I'm trying to win Establishment brownie points, etc.. Your Bible is apparently missing some entire sections about how to treat people, how not to malign them others with falsehoods, etc. You try to smack me with a long 2 Cor 11 quote. Swing and a miss and Scripture isn't a club for you to beat people. Believe me, there are many I could smack you with. You still haven't answered my question about apostles. If you don't know the issue enough to answer that foundational question then maybe you need to back off until you have a clue.
What church do you belong to Sibby?
So I studied with renowned seminary professor Dr. C. Peter Wagner and you were a Jehovah's Witness and a New Age Mystic. Hmm. Do you notice I don't tie you to your teachers?
Sounds like you don't go to church and that you are all unto yourself for study and accountability. It explains a lot. And you are brand new to Bible Study. Good, keep at it.
I figured you went to a Baptist church and I was going to make a point with a reply like this.... "oh a baptist church- I googled and Fred Phelps is baptist - I'm going to broadcast that Steve Sibson celebrates when American soldiers die."
How would that feel? Maybe you don't get my point. There are a zillion people who toss around the word apostle just as there are 30 flavors of baptists. Some are whacked and some aren't. I'd think it's at least ten times now on these blogs you try to smear me with NAR crap you find online. The membership there is very very diverse and you sin brother when you repeat stuff that isn't all true. Better to be quiet and get your own doctrine figured out before you become the self-appointed (and accountable only to self) arbiter of all that is true for the rest of us. Sorry to be so forthright but you don't quit.
"So I studied with renowned seminary professor Dr. C. Peter Wagner and you were a Jehovah's Witness and a New Age Mystic. Hmm. Do you notice I don't tie you to your teachers? "
The difference is I now understand what is false, you still believe in Wagner's Dominion Theology and that Wagner is "renowned". I am just a lowly common guy who believes in radical stuff. You can deny Dominion Theology and that you never painted me as a radical, but your words and actions say different.
"Sounds like you don't go to church"
You don't have to be member to go to many churches.
"I was actually trying gently to help you get along better with people and to get you to quit bearing false witness against the rest of us."
Yeah Steve, I need to stop being such a radical and go along with the Establishment's plan. And exposing the truth is "bearing false witness". Sad that attitude prevented you from seriously looking at my research on HB1234. Perhaps you would not be in the hot water that you are now in by voting for it. It is one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation that I have ever seen in Pierre. The children of South Dakota are being taken from the control of their families to the control of the central planners. And they are just as international as the International Coalition of Apostles.
"Your Bible is apparently missing some entire sections about how to treat people, how not to malign them others with falsehoods, etc. You try to smack me with a long 2 Cor 11 quote."
I could not be blowing the trumpet and warning you and others about false apostles. That would make it hard for you to show malice toward one concerned about those being deceived. The religion class I am taking is using a text written by a couple of Fuller guys and it has provided me great insight as to what is going on. It is my Biblical responsiblity to expose false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers. Like HB1234, you have chosen to write my warnings off as those coming from some nutcase. Sad.
Hickey, one thing you can count on with Sib. Whatever he's been studying lately, he will wear you out with it.
Bill, thanks for the compliment. What have you been up to lately?
I've been reading Two good books Sibby: "Thinking Fast and Slow" (a book on the psychology of reasoning) and several plays by Will Eno (a completely unreasonable post-modern playwright.)
"There are a zillion people who toss around the word apostle just as there are 30 flavors of baptists."
There is "only" an estimated 7 Billion people on the earth, of those roughly 2.1 Billion are Christian.
I don't believe Catholics "toss" that term around and they make up about 1/2 the world's Christian population. I do know Missouri Synod Lutherans do not toss the term around.
Very curious, what does this very important specific Christian title mean to you Representative Steve Hickey?
Catholics have never dropped apostolic succession, Nelson . Apostolos is a Greek word meaning "one sent." Any more questions? Ask your MSL minister how many named apostles are in the New Testament and if he can show you one verse that says there are no apostles anymore.
Nelson? Not a very winsome reciprocal respectful greeting.
I am aware of the origins and the accepted Christian understanding of the word.
Even more curious as to why you are so defensive in your response? Is it because you consider yourself an apostle and allow yourself to be called one?
I haven't been this enthralled since Troy and Stace debated the GOP platform.
So whose crucifix is bigger?
Any other "apostles" running for office this year?
Religion is a crutch for the weak minded.
Stop spending my money and shoving your god down my throat!! You can have your god in your house, but keep him out of MY government, sirs. Howie, I mean you too, and all your minions as well.
Grudz,
I wish that you'd quit insulting Cory like by implying that he's weak minded because he follows a religion.
According to Steven Prothero in "God Is Not One," Atheism is one of the 8 religions that run the world. http://www.amazon.com/God-Is-Not-One-Religions/dp/0061571288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351039665&sr=8-1&keywords=God+is+not+one
I find Cory's commentary scintillating and his intellect first rate. He is anything but "weak minded."
I had no idea Mr. H followed one of the 8 religions that (Mr. Sibby are you paying attention to this?) run the world.
I meant no insult, Mr. H.
I think it is ridiculous to call atheism a religion. I'm an agnostic, but if atheists get a tax break, I would convert to atheism in short order. I might even become part of their clergy.
Justin,
Read the book. He argues that atheists share a common ethical framework.
Here's another link about the "religion without God" http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/09/alain-de-botton-on-the-benefits-of-religion-without-god.html
Thanks, LK! I gladly return the compliment. Your intellect scintillates as well.
I haven't read the book, but in this interview, Prothero does a poor job of defending his claim that atheism is a religion. He lays out criteria for identifying a religion, then says that atheists do a sloppy job of meeting those criteria. Maybe he was just having an off round.
Wikipedia provides an Emile Durkheim quote that distinguishes religion from private belief as "something eminently social." Does my atheism have a social aspect? Therein lies a fundamental difference between whatever Rev. Hickey, Steve, and others who drop by here practice and what I practice (and I question whether I can be said to "practice" atheism in the way that others "practice" Christianity).
Yes, we're off topic. I'm rolling with it.
I don't use the title nor have I tolerated it being used of me. There are biblical differences between the gift, the office and the title. I use the terms missionary or church planter because neither of those causes controversy with evangelicals who should know their Bibles better. Curious though, neither of those two terms are found anywhere in the Bible. I've tried Stace treating you with respect . It wasn't reciprocated. My apologies . My short wick on this is due to the fact that I'm sick of it as Sibby trots out misinformation and thinks it fits me. I don't appreciate, neither does my wife or kids. And the topic here should be the Ed bill yet once again Sibby drags the discussion in the weeds. Good day to all .
Understood, Rep. Hickey. At the point where Mr. Sibson claims you're the Harlot making the bed for the Anti-Christ, everyone should lose interest.
So whose endorsement do you think will get more votes: that Sioux Falls paper backing you, or SDEA backing Rep. Deelstra?
Endorsements are nice but I don't know there is any measurable difference they make. And they can be dead weight too -- we've seen it recently in SD , and hey I hear Chavez endorsed Obama. One of those thanks but no thanks deals. To me the argus Endorsement goes further as its not one issue by a non biased group which differentiates it from the sdea. Some conservatives ask me: do you really want the Argus endorsement, isn't that the kiss of death- its a liberal rag ... And so it goes. Neither of those statements is true. I wanted the Argus endorsement. I hope it helps . The sdea endorsement may appeal to a sector of my district but I'd think folks generally see it as the union wing of the Ed establishment. ;-) But what do I know. There are D9 teachers who are voting for me. I'll keep working on showing the SDEA why they want me in their corner .
Rep. Hickey, excuse me if I take umbrage with your effort to play vicitm at my expense, yet again.
So if I observed such a salutation in your book, how would that play into your statements here?
Wouldn't change my statement at all. I don't use the title, and others do. Move on.
And sorry for not remembering the victim role is yours not mine to play -even as I'm made to defend myself from more cheap shots from you and Sibby. For the record, you have been brutal in your denigration of my 27 year service in the Lord's Army and at no point have I stooped to that level in smearing your service.
R #16(HB1234) is still bad legislation. As a candidate for state senate, I have and will continue to oppose #16.
Hickey, wow.. Claiming injured victim status from 4 mild sentences here? Really? Pray tell, point out my denigration of your honest, faithful, and humble service to God?
It was so disgraceful the Argus deleted the comments. Perhaps you forgot that last exchange we had. It cost you some McCook Cty votes. I should know better than to banter with you so I'll continue to keep my space.
Clash of the Titmice.
Grudz, gravy taters are a crutch for the even weaker minded (and toothless). I'm just sayin'.
Hickey, McCook city? Sorry, you must be thinking of some place in the state of your birth. No such place exists in my district. Regardless, you cannot defeat me on the facts or my position on the issues.
The disgrace is your condemning the Christianity of those whose right it is to challenge your voting record. The disgrace is when you lie to people, as you boldly did here, and claim one thing "I don't use the title (apostle) nor have I tolerated it being used of me" and reality shows that you promoted exactly that in YOUR book that YOU had printed.
Tack on your insincere comments about 2011's HB-1198, smoke-out votes, bills you vote for twice even though they are "your least favorite bills of the session" and you see your "character" shining through.
I saw it very clearly this last session when you were cheering to have me thrown out of the legislature on a concocted story that "I threatened to kill Nick Moser" Something that you and others knew to be a lie.
I am a poor worthless sinner, clearly not fit to discuss truth and facts with a self sent holy apostle who believes he has the ability to change lies upon utterance.
For the record, I do understand your unease at the truth getting out about your claiming to be a holy apostle sent from God. To confirm my understanding of this, I had a lengthy discussion with my pastor yesterday, without mentioning names, about people claiming such things. He rightfully cited several scriptures debunking such claims and pointed out that such a claim would make that person a false prophet and teacher, as Steve Sibson has rightfully pointed out.
The Argus comments? The truth is disgraceful to you. I have nothing to hide, you clearly do. They deleted your comments also. They did you a favor in both cases.
Rep. Nelson, I have never read Rep. Hickey's books, and will never read the incoherent ramblings of petty hucksters harboring delusions of grandeur (except on blogs). Does Steve Hickey really refer to himself as an apostle? Could we get the actual quote from the book? Just the sentence or two is fine - Apostle Hickey can cut and paste the rest of the book after claiming to be the victim of a quote out of context.
"At the point where Mr. Sibson claims you're the Harlot making the bed for the Anti-Christ, everyone should lose interest."
I never made that accusation. I asked if he ever considered taht to be a possiblity. At this point we do not know for sure who or whom is the Anti-Christ or the Harlot that will help set up the Beast government only to be devoured. It is an act of love to help those escape the Harlot's deception. Yes, even the elect can be deceived, especially those who think they are an apostle. Once you venture off into the spirit world, you open yourself up to all kinds of spirits. I don't think it is a goo idea to get into the postmodern mysticism. What says you Mr. Fleming?
McCook County. Bridgewater. You need meds. I find you fully impossible. Many share my view. You are wrong about me using that title. A few paragraphs earlier you deny ever denegrating my service to God. Here you celebrate those comments again. Get behind me.
For those who interesting on more regarding the influence of the New Apostolic Reformation on politics, here is an excerpt from John MacArthur:
The Movement is marked by super excess ecstatic, bizarre behavior. Emotionalism ran amuck, all kinds of crazy revelations, behaviors. Peter Wagner is the father of this, as he has been involved in all kinds of other aberrations through the years, including starting the Church Growth Movement which gave life to the pragmatism movement which as we know is so ubiquitous. Their influence has been growing and recently jumped into the political realm, and I’ll tell you how.
There was a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago now, a prayer breakfast in the city of Houston that you may have read about. It was an event sponsored by the New Apostolic Reformation and their leaders and the guests and the main speaker there was Rick Perry, who is a candidate for the Republican Party for President. At this event sponsored by the New Apostolic Reformation, two pastors were leading in this event. They are apostles. They have been given apostleship by the Holy Spirit. They called Rick Perry’s office, as governor of the state of Texas, and told him that the Lord had revealed to them through the Holy Spirit that Texas is the state that God has chosen to lead the United States into revival and godly government and Rick Perry is to play a key role. And at that event, these two apostles of the New Apostolic Reformation Movement, laid hands on Rick Perry and prayed over him. They claim that God speaks directly to them specific instruction…specific instruction. And if people fail to listen to this divine revelation that comes through them, there will be more earthquakes, more terrorist attacks and worse economic conditions.
However, if we listen, good things will happen because they gave us an illustration of that because they were the ones who gave a little bit of rain to Texas after the draught. I mean, if you didn’t know better, you’d think somebody opened the back door of the nut house.
One of these Apostles says the Democratic Party is controlled by Jezebel and three lesser demons. They see demons in public places. They engage in confrontation of these demons and they do it with elaborate rituals, branding irons, stakes and plumb lines. They’ve gone all over the state of Texas pounding stakes into the ground, branding certain things and claiming every county in Texas for God. One of them says, and I quote, “We are called to world dominion.†They have gone to every Masonic Lodge in Texas to cast out the demon Baal because the demon Baal controls free masonry.
They had a meeting in 2009 in Houston. Under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, Jezebel was visible. They saw Jezebel. Actually a woman named Alice Patterson, one of these Apostles who has written a book called Bridging The Racial and Political Divide which sounds like a political book, published in 2010. She said that she saw Jezebel and Jezebel lifted up her skirt and when Jezebel lifted up her skirt, this is a quote, “She exposed little Baal, Asheroth(?), and a few other demons who were small cowering, trembling little spirits only ankle high on Jezebel’s skinny legs,†end quote.
This is in a book called Bridging the Racial and Political Divide. And this is all attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit who is revealing all these things.
Now you know where this all comes from. This is again attributing to the Holy Spirit the work of Satan. I don’t know what Rick Perry knows or doesn’t know about all of this, you know, in a campaign year, you take the prayers from anybody especially if you’re not sure what this is all about. But this is just one illustration of the aberrations that continue to be placed on the back of the Holy Spirit as if these are things that He is doing. It is such a frightening, frightening form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-415/the-modern-blasphemy-of-the-holy-spirit
Had you spelled county rather than cty, Rep. Nelson wouldn't have mistaken your meaning. How did you spell apostle in your book?
I am an advocate for reason in discourse as you know, Sibby.
Ok Stace, you do realize that "cty" is an often used abbreviation for county right? (and unfortunately for me you do represent McCook County...)
This exchange between you and Rep Hickey is exactly why religion and/or religious agendas have no place in government or political discourse.
"Get behind me."
Mr. Hickey, since you have denied being an Apostle, then answer this:
Why do you continue to act holier than thou?
"Get behind me." That's just bizarre. Much like most of what Sibby writes. If you haven't gone off the deep end yet, Rep. Hickey, you are walking along the edge. What will those behind you do?
Mr. Schwartz, there is a religious agenda and it is in our schools. That research (see link) will also be considered "biazarre" by Mr. Rorschach. So now I am back onto the main subject of this thread and off Cory's sub-issue of the "rational religious" Mr. Hickey.
http://www.aquaac.org/dl/04nl34art3.html
If one believse he has been sent forth to serve God first and serves the GOP platform second, I would guess the wishes of his constituents are rarely served and that he is unfit for government.
It isn't surprising that that SF paper believes this is exemplary governance.
I also wouldn't be surprised if many of Rev. Hickey's constituents do, in fact, see a great resemblance between Hickey and the apostle Judas Iscariat. ;)
Interlude. (Please don't skip. You'll all love it. Promise.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RCuXVlONKU
Hickey, you denigrate all those that selflessly serve God with your self-serving arrogance, deceit, and hypocrisy. You lied, again, and you got caught.
A book that you proof read, that you edited, that you published, identifies you as Apostle Steve Hickey in the book. You do not deny that, but deceitfully claim that somehow I am wrong. Was it your least favorite title, that you used anyways? Get thee behind me charlatan.
@BW I do believe that there is no approved abbreviation for county. I respect your right NOT to believe in anything. Please respect my right to believe in God. If you feel I am so terrible, you had ample opportunity to run against me and debate the issues. I would have loved such an opportunity.
Yes or no, Rep. Hickey: Did you proofread OR edit OR publish a book that identifies you as Apostle?
Here is the link to Hickey's book:
http://www.amazon.com/Obtainable-Destiny-Modeling-Mobilizing-Apostolic/dp/1591855667/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351103094&sr=1-1&keywords=Steve+Hickey+obtainable
About the Author
STEVE HICKEY founded RAM (Regional Apostolic Mobilization) as a vehicle to establish the kingdom of God on the Northern Plains. He planted Harvest Church of Sioux Falls in 1994, which has grown into a strategic regional mission outpost. Steve is the South Dakota Coordinator for the Strategic Prayer Network and is a member of the International Coalition of Apostles. He and his wife, Kristen, have a daughter, Kaitlyn, and two sons, Thomas and Caleb.
"is a member of the International Coalition of Apostles."
@Rorschach You have to read his thoughts on the matter in their entirety http://stevehickey.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/evangelicals-discover-apostles-do-exist-today/ Pay special attention to his exchange with "James" in the post exchanges below the article where he equates himself to being an apostle.
Apostle...Marine: what's the difference again?
Willard Romney used a deferment to avoid service in Vietnam: how apostolic.
Apostles likely don't beat people with garden hoses in the custody of the NCIS.
What was your favorite method of
torture</strike interrogating suspects, Marine?@Larry if only I would have had access to your posts back then, I would have used them.. :-D Now that would have been considered torture!
yer as funny as sodomy with a broom handle, stace.
Just as Barry Obama was delivered from a life in the 'hood, Willard Romney was spared Khe Sanh.
Republicans make me puke.
While SSgt. Stace Nelson make a career beating the 'trvth' out of people of color, Rev. Hickey made his stealing from white people: sure looks like Hickey is the smarter guy to me.
@Larry I will take your word for it on the broom handle affair.
Good to see you are as clueless as usual. I am sure the self-appointed apostle appreciates the "comic" relief.
So Rep. Hickey does consider himself an Apostle. He's a church planter. Church planters are Apostles. He's an Apostle.
This really is a lot like beating the truth out of the shifty reverend, Rep. Nelson. Why the dishonesty from him I wonder?
This is from Mr. Hickey's church blog:
"Some of us have been praying and fasting for years for God to come in power. Personally, I’ve been fortunate to have been in some recent outpourings – Kansas City being our hometown, Kristen and I experienced the early years of the Kansas City Prophets and saw God move mightily in those gatherings. We were dating at the time and that’s what we did for dates – go hear Bob Jones!"
http://stevehickey.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/revival-in-florida-todd-bentley-and-seat-of-scoffers/
Sorry, but this issue going way deeper than what I thought. I hope this is all new news for Mr. Hickey:
"The charges are delineated in a 233 page document entitled, "Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)," prepared by Pastor Ernest Gruen and members of his staff. Here we found documentation of exaggerated and false prophecies by KCF staff. Many of these were used to promote their own ministry and used to influence other churches to come under the KCF umbrella. Strange teachings, i.e., Bob Jones use of the Shepherd's Rod ceremony and the idea that New Testament prophets are fallible. Documentation of occult type activities such as the promotion of out of body experiences. Documentation of institutional and psychological harm to people as a result of words allegedly coming from God. Various false doctrines that are documented include an "elected seed generation" theology to promote their uniqueness. A "new order" doctrine which teaches that the new order following the pattern of Samuel will replace the old order after the pattern of Eli. Dominion theology is a strong element. They deny this, but it is clear from our conversations with them that they do not understand Dominion Theology. They know it is controversial so they want to deny any association. Doctrine about seeking new revelation from God including seeking dreams, visions, communication with angels, the dead, and out-of body experiences. Doctrine about the restoration of the gift of Apostles and Prophets, and that hundreds of these will be trained at KCF. Further a number of ethical compromises are documented including Bickle's teaching against his charismatic brethren and then actively seeking their support. Inconsistency in his support of Bob Jones, depending on how the groups he is addressing views Bob Jones, as well as not keeping financial promises.
This is only a short summary of the various charges brought against KCF. Numerous pages of quotations, testimonies, and letters from first hand witnesses support the allegations. A large majority of the charges, but by no means all, relate to the ministry of Bob Jones.
In light of both the seriousness of the charges and the large amount of evidence supporting them, it would be reasonable to expect that when the KCF leaders issued a statement of correction and repentance that this would include point by point refutation of the charges. As we will see, they only admitted wrong doing in a few minor instances or in very general terms. However, by finding a few errors and some minor discrepancies in the documentation, and emphasizing those in detail, KCF has tried to convey the impression that most of the charges were either unfounded, misunderstandings, differences in opinion, or based on speculation."
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=7353
Heck, the modern day Apostles even established a fraternity, and Rep. Hickey joined the Apostle Fraternity - the International Coalition of Apostles. Which Greek letters are associated with that fraternity, Rep. Hickey? Alpha Alpha Alpha?
I don't use the term for myself. I didn't write the forward to the book where youll find that phrase. It's not a self published book. Others use the term, i avoid it because people who are clueless and dont know their Bibles freak out when they hear it. I'm in Greece right now. There is no word here but apostle. No word missionary. No word church planter. I was asked to be a member of ICA when it started as we're leaders from almost every church planting movement in the world. I've gone over this with Sibby before. I didn't renew membership or go I meetings. Keep googling Sibby . Or you could do what the Bible says and come see me if you have an issue with me. I think you'd find the conversation fascinating .
Hickey, I think it's fine if you're an apostle. Just sayin'.
Sibby doesn't really have the capacity to ensconce South Dakota women in the 19th Century while Hickey and Nelson do.
Rep. Hickey. No matter how much you weasel around the issue, you did write the information linked by Rep. Nelson. According to what you wrote, you are a church planter. Church planters are apostles. Therefore you are an apostle. You also say someone who does what you do has the apostolic gift and does apostolic work, which of course are the definition of an Apostle. So you fancy yourself as an Apostle. You even joined the Apostle trade group.
What do you call someone who joins the Rotary Club and denies they're a Rotarian? Dishonest? What do you call someone who drops out of Rotary? A former Rotarian. Tell me, Rep. Hickey: What do you call someone who drops out of the International Coalition of Apostles? A former Apostle?
And Rorschach, what do you call a guy who denied Jesus three times before the cock crowed? Yup. St. Peter. Apostle numero uno. Founder (and first Pope) of the Christian church... you know... way back when there weren't any other kind of "Christians." LOL.
So future St. Steve is in Greece apostling around and getting measured for his marble statue? Holy >>>>!! Well, there's still time for me to repent.
Sure, why not, R? St. Hickey's Basilica. Maybe retrofit the Corn Palace or something. Invite Sibby over to confess his sins and stuff.
They could have little corn tostada discs and pico salsa for well... you get the picture. Kolaches after mass. Make Kloucek a Cardinal (okay, maybe just a Bishop or Monsignor.)
Hickey, I ran the claims of being a modern day apostle by my two Missouri Synod Lutheran Pastors. They and their collegues DO know the bible and there is some very interesting written condemnations of those charlatans who claim to be apostles that do so for self-promotion.
Your own conduct here, in attempting to deceive people about the matter, shows your inherit understanding that your actions discredit you.
The book you approved for print contains references to you as an apostle. You approved that. You knowingly lied above.
Get thee behind us, charlatan.
Fascinating that Rev. Hickey's supporters (ie. PP) bless trips abroad to proselytize to unbelievers but indict Matt Varilek for his choice to advance his education.
The Missionary Position on climate change....
Stace you obviously didn't ask them the two questions : how many named apostles in the New Testament? And Where is one verse that says no apostles today? The fact that there were false apostles means there are true ones. And there are harsh judgments on false teachers and false pastors too. Read Ephesians 4:11-13 and look carefully at what the word until means about how long the apostolic gift will be around and vital to the maturity of the Church.
and jesus said: stamp my passport, pilgrim.
Logic escapes you, Rep. Hickey. The fact there are fake dinosaurs today doesn't mean there are real dinosaurs today. There may be 1,000 fake Angel Moronis on Halloween, but that doesn't mean there is a real one. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed.
This Deelstra fellow seems to be a bit of an odd duck.
I don't fault Rep. Hickey for his beliefs. I don't think it's any crazier than what any other religious person believes.
I just worry when those sent to represent SD residents in Pierre believe they serve a higher power before their constituents. I see that quite clearly in the continued push to fight Roe v Wade with taxpayer money when voters have clearly expressed how they feel on that issue... twice.
So you're a modern day apostle Rep. Hickey. OK. We get it already. Everybody just smile and nod (we'll talk later).
Odd duck sees odd duck... News at 10.
Missouri Synod position on ministration to illegals: warning, graphic.
http://reporter.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=11287
Hey, Rep. Charlie Hoofman: you want some of this? Put yer head in the fence.
er, hoffman....
Cory here is something you could do very easily today. Send a text or email message to every sitting SD Representative and those running for office and every SD Senator and also those running and ask them whom they trust more to deliver the truth in religious matters. Those finding this post delivering their trust upon the public come first as in Representative Stace Nelson, Representative Steve Hickey, and just for a truth in advertising Steve "Sibby" Sibson; as all three have stated religious questions and seemingly honest answers. Then just publish them knowing you have nothing to gain from either one of the three being the most trusted religious poster on Madville. (the number of politico's is going to be way above 105 and should be close in political nature too) (and Larry K I dont' know if you are in a wheel chair, an ex- marine, or a genius, but you are missing a most gifted resource of comedian :) )
Larry you ask and Hoffswartz delivers baby!! Now sush it up for a while man.............................Survivor is on dude CBS
Good to see Charlie drinking the BS kool aid that Schoenbeck & Jones mixed for him.
Don't make me repost your drunken post on DWC on how I tell the truth all the time to the point that you want to choke me to stop me from doing so.
You go ahead and worship at the self-appointed dishonest holy apostle from god's alter, Charlie, I will take my worthless honest to the point you want to choke me sinner butt to Zion Lutheran, and worship God.
...and for crying stinking out loud Hoffman, find something that you can stick with day in and day out with out flip flopping. Trying to keep up with you is making ME "Dizzy!" :-D
We seem to gather who is drinking tonight Representative Nelson. You like to attack people but don't take frontage aimed at yourself well. The smart man understands others strenths and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage. Something they must have forgotten to teach you in boot camp.
By the by, Charlie, don't take this poor worthless sinner's understanding that Hickey is NOT the sent from god holy apostle that he argues he is. The attached article was the basis for my pastor and my long discussion today on the matter: http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=1226
It also rips to shreds Apostle Hickey's claims and contentions.
Wow is all I can honestly say Stace. I was as fair as one can be in my last post and you go postal on me. So be it brother.
Mr. Vongkusolkit: tell us what you know. We have a 6'7" Marine from South Dakota who will help you wish you were dead.
Is your sister a terrorist?
So tell me: does Rev. Hickey's claim to apostleship, whatever that means, have any bearing on whether District 9 should vote for Rep. Hickey? Did Rev. Hickey's apostleship lead him to vote the wrong way on HB 1234?
Xavier Onassis: Pastor Hickey is here to help.
I am as sober, as Hickey is NOT an apostle (100%).
Moses! Is every rino in the state a whining victim?
Hickey was peddling his false teachings and dumping on Steve Sibson, I called him out on his lies. You wade in and get returned the same monkey poo you threw at me.
"The smart man understands others strenths (sic erat scriptum) and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage." No, Charlie, that is the mantra of the disingenuous politician.
What they teach Marines is beyond your ability to understand or appreciate. That aside, imagine if Marines went around playing your politician games: (Charlie): "Sir, the Marines are all ready, and have plenty of everything they need because of your perfect leadership."
Reality? They need ammo, chow, water, bandages, night vision goggles, and reinforcements.
You want someone to ply you with worthless platitudes, I am the wrong person.
Mr. Xchoenbeck appears to be universally loathed: your turn, Lee.
Dang, I wish Paula Hawks and Bob Deelstra would drop by to talk policy.
scorecard check: yer catholic, right charlie?
I'm hungry for truth, and Apostle Hickey's comments leave me starving to death. Time for a corndog! The special insight God gave Rep. Hickey was to cut medicaid and give the savings to rich corporations. Or was that the Angel Moroni telling him who needs the gold plates? Using Rev. Hickey's logic there can't be a fake Angel Moroni unless there is a real one. Trying to get something coherent from Rev. Hickey or Sibby is like waiting for Godot.
"Keep googling Sibby ."
Mr. Hickey, your own web site is all we need to read to understand your heresy. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about His exclusivity and our humility in accepting Him as our King. Your Dominion Theology is another gospel about men creating the Kingdom and letting Jesus run after we are done. Your arrogance and thirst for power doesn't allow you to see the truth.
"Founder (and first Pope) of the Christian church"
More heresy.
"The fact that there were false apostles means there are true ones."
Then name some of today's so-called "true apostles". Todd Bentley? Bob Jones? C Peter Wagner? Steve Hickey?
"Then just publish them knowing you have nothing to gain from either one of the three being the most trusted religious poster on Madville."
And Cory, don't foreget to mention Hoffman is an admitted anti-Christian freemason.
"scorecard check: yer catholic, right charlie?"
Jesuit?
"Trying to get something coherent from Rev. Hickey or Sibby is like waiting for Godot."
Hey Rorschach, I was the one who exposed the heresy of Hickey. Thanks for the appreciation. Your acting just as self-righteous as some self-proclaimed apostle.
I'm still waiting for the implications of Rev. Hickey's apostleship or lack thereof on his policymaking ability. Put this argument in terms that will be relevant to District 9 voters. Most of what has been said here matters to maybe six voters in District 9... and I would write those voters off the way Romney writes off the 47%.
Sorry for the gratuitous slam Sibby. It was uncalled for.
"I'm still waiting for the implications of Rev. Hickey's apostleship or lack thereof on his policymaking ability."
Because the folks pushing Dominion Theology are focused on power, not on telling people the truth. Their goal in achieving power is to take dominion and those who disagree will be treated without respect at best and with persecution at worst. No wonder Hickey gets along so well with our governor.
Rorshach, thanks!! I will try to be more coherent.