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Paranoia Afoot: Liss Calls for Purge of Marxist Infiltrators

Last updated on 2012.12.24

Reading Brian C. Liss's "Suggestions for Conservative Activists" inspires to compose my own list... actually, just one suggestion for conservative activists: Don't listen to Brian C. Liss.

The retiring one-term Republican legislator from Sioux Falls gets airtime on Gordon Howie's Potemkin blogroll to offer what he calls "A Strategic Framework for Conservative Activists." But trust me: Liss offers no strategic framework. Liss offers the fantasies of a junior gamer thinking he is the next Alexander because he beat Caesar by building ironclads and forming an alliance with the Zulus in Civilization.

But let's survey the madness, in Liss's own words:

Our country's liberty and morality are deliberately being destroyed from within by Marxists and their "useful idiot" allies. If you are unfamiliar with Marxism, suffice it to say that in the souls of many there burns an infinite desire to order others about, and to punish those who do not comply. Add a veneer of compassion to this insanity and we call it liberalism or leftism or progressivism. This liberalism dominates the Democrats and has infiltrated the Republicans [Brian C. Liss, "Suggestions for Conservative Activists," The Right Side, 2012.07.31].

Infiltrated the Republicans... I guess that explains the anti-abortion legislation by which the SDGOP orders doctors and women about and punishes those who do not comply, all under the veneer of compassion.

I want to simply laugh at Liss, but his fascist paranoia becomes downright scary in his recommendation to "Remove Leftists from Positions of Power and Influence":

They have infiltrated our churches, schools, universities, governments, media outlets, and many influential professions. Practically any organization of significant size or influence that has not been specifically founded to be conservative will be targeted for takeover by leftists. Identify them and remove them [Liss, 2012.07.31].

Let's get clear on a couple things. I am a leftist. I have not infiltrated anything. I have worked in various public schools around South Dakota at the request of their duly elected local school boards. If there is a "targeted takeover," I haven't gotten the memo.

That's the stupid part. The scary part is the last two words: remove them. What kind of witch hunt is Liss after? I can see how conservative activists can remove leftists from elected government positions (run against them! vote them out!), but how is the typical activist supposed to remove people of political persuasions they don't like from their professions? Is Liss asking my conservative neighbors in Spearfish to lobby the school board to fire me without cause? Is he asking Brookings activists to conduct sit-ins at SDSU to prevent liberal professors from entering their classrooms? Is he urging his Sioux Falls neighbors to kidnap David Montgomery and keep him out of print? Is he urging right-wingnuts with employees to go Chick-Fil-A and fire all Democrats?

Brian C. Liss, Heinrich Himmler
Brian C. Liss, Heinrich Himmler... why am I hearing echoes?

Brian C. Liss seems to be calling for a political purge of education, media, government, and other professions to be listed at his whim later. That's not a strategic framework for activism; that's a pitch for a putsch.

If Liss's framework has any legs, he must not have used it in the Legislature, where he never got a bill past committee. He must not have used it in his referendum petition drive, which failed. He says he plans to use his framework to push a ballot measure "making it illegal for South Dakota's governments to deduct union dues from government workers' paychecks." He fails to recognize that federal and state law already protect paychecks from such predations.

Liss is a frustrated bumbler with delusions of grandeur. But Hitler and Himmler looked like flaccid bumblers as well before they really got going with their purge of scheming infiltrator scapegoats from the professional ranks.

I would dismiss Liss entirely. No one is going to take seriously a politician who says South Dakota's biggest political priority is the extermination of Marxist infiltrators... right? Right?

Paranoia and political scapegoating are diseases. As long as even a few fringe-oids like Liss sneeze their scare-tactics into the public air, we must continue neutralize their sickness with sunlight and scorn.


  1. larry kurtz 2012.07.31

    Global warming has been very, very good for white people.

  2. Bill Fleming 2012.07.31

    I agree, Cory, best to just take that kind of crap and stick it right back up the orifice it came out of.

  3. Taunia 2012.07.31

    Someone pointed out to me awhile ago the reason the Sarah Palins, Michelle Bachmanns, Ann Coulters, Brian Liss' of the world have a place is because there's something lacking in the political, economic and social atmosphere. The mentioned-types fill that void.

    For the economic reasons, we've been sunk into a near depression. Everyone feels it, everyone is angry and everyone deals with it the way it makes them feel best(?). It's easy to sink to angry levels and join the angry crowd. Something generally happens that causes the way of thinking to change. During the Depression, it was WWII that changed the anger into something productive.

    It was good to see mainstream Republicans pushing back against Bachmann last week. It was a start. I don't think it's going to go very far. It's an election year. Everyone's mostly concerned about getting re-elected, and the extreme right is still raising the most money and has control of the bullhorn.

    I've only read about Liss here. Are there any mainstream Republicans pushing back against his remarks? I saw in another thread where Rep Hoffman wasn't interested in calling Liss out. It's going to take party members pushing party members back into reality or the (hypothetically) US Army pushing back on McCarthy's Aide Roy Cohn for thes out-of-control and useless witchhunts to end.

    I haven't seen many instances in history where one party calling out the other party on blatant lies ever caused the offending party to shape up. It's going to have to come from within and perhaps it's a good time for Rep Hoffman, and others within that particular party, to grab some reality and get things on track again.

  4. Dougal 2012.07.31

    Power hungry toads like this seem to receive little editing or rebuke from their political party. That reveals:

    1. The GOP finds people like Liss useful to act as the frontlash to agendas that become more radical and more invasive to our private lives.
    2. The GOP lost its nads and is afraid of moter mouth hotheads like Liss.
    3. The GOP is in lockstep with Liss as one of its visionaries.

    Witnessing Romney's recent failures to invoke the McCain example of silencing violent and extremist language at his events, I find that numbers 1 and 2 are the reality. The GOP's strategy since 2009 has been to whip up and maintain an intense hatred against Obama, Democrats, moderate Republicans, powerless minorities and anyone who doesn't fall in line 100 percent with their mission to control government.

    The critical difference between Liss and the GOP national strategy is Liss advocates destroying anyone who doesn't fall in line 100 percent to gain 100 percent control.

    The GOP in South Dakota and nationally is a clever bully. Unfortunately, a good whoopin' in an election doesn't seem to deter the Liss wing of the Republican Party. They seem to believe that cleansing their party's leadership ranks of non-Koolaid drinkers and roaring back even harder and meaner in the next election to purge our state and nation of nonbelievers is the key to ultimate success.

    They may have a point, if control of the Republican Party is their primary aim. They are well on their way of purging the Republican Party of the people they call RINOs, because sensible people want nothing to do with these power hungry toads. I just wonder what sensible Republicans plan to do regarding their increasingly radicalized, militant party. So far, they are silent (cowardice or acquiescence?) or reticent to stand up for rational dialogue. Do they want to regain control of the sensible middle or go out in a ball of flames with the power hungry toads?

  5. David Newquist 2012.07.31

    Bill gives the most cogent advice. However, these cohorts would not be able to grasp Marxism if you put The Communist Manifesto in a Cuisinart, emulsified it, and pumped it up that orifice in liquid form. To them Marxist is just another form of the N-word used to convey the intensity of their hatreds for anything that seeks freedom, equality, and justice.

    Liss sounds more like Joseph Goebbels, except that when he fanned the flames of the holocaust, he knew he was making up lies that appeal only to those who live with that primal hatred that can be used as the instrument of enslavement.

    The fact that this kind of propaganda is circulating at all suggests the prophetic aspect of Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here."

  6. Jack Anderson 2012.07.31

    Good to see that Godwin's law is alive and well in the left-leaning blogosphere. If all you Alinsky-followers have left is the "Reductio ad Hitlerum" argument, it's little wonder why you enjoy so little success in the state legislative races.

    It's pretty obvious that you can't win on the merit of your ideas, so the only thing left is to criticize others like a petulant 5th-grader.

    But go ahead and continue to mock those with whom you disagree instead of using facts to refute the arguments they make.

    And by all means, keep writing articles like this so that your readers can see past your rhetorical facade and realize just how ignorant, juvenile, and petty you are.

  7. Steve Sibson 2012.07.31

    "I am a leftist. I have not infiltrated anything."

    So then this applies to you:

    “useful idiot”

    That was not meant to demean. But then again, you have been told the truth and your post proves that you still don't see why you think the way you do.

  8. Steve Sibson 2012.07.31

    "However, these cohorts would not be able to grasp Marxism if you put The Communist Manifesto in a Cuisinart, emulsified it, and pumped it up that orifice in liquid form."

    So how many of the points from the Communist Manifesto has already been implemented in this Country?

  9. Steve Sibson 2012.07.31

    Here is the answer (Cory the last one points to you):

    First Plank: Abolition of property in land and the application of all rents of land to public purposes. (Zoning - Model ordinances proposed by Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover widely adopted. Supreme Court ruled "zoning" to be "constitutional" in 1921. Private owners of property required to get permission from government relative to the use of their property. Federally owned lands are leased for grazing, mining, timber usages, the fees being paid into the U.S. Treasury.)

    Second Plank: A heavy progressive or graduated incometax. (Corporate Tax Act of 1909. The 16th Amendment, allegedly ratified in 1913. The Revenue Act of 1913, section 2, Income Tax. These laws have been purposely misapplied against American citizens to this day.)

    Third Plank: Abolition of all rights of inheritance. (Partially accomplished by enactment of various state and federal "estate tax" laws taxing the "privilege" of transfering property after death and gift before death.)

    Fourth Plank: CONFISCATION OF THE PROPERTY OF ALL EMIGRANTS AND REBELS. (The confiscation of property and persecution of those critical - "rebels" - of government policies and actions, frequently accomplished by prosecuting them in a courtroom drama on charges of violations of non-existing administrative or regulatory laws.)

    Fifth Plank: Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. (The Federal Reserve Bank, 1913- -the system of privately-owned Federal Reserve banks which maintain a monopoly on the valueless debt "money" in circulation.)

    Sixth Plank: Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State. (Federal Radio Commission, 1927; Federal Communications Commission, 1934; Air Commerce Act of 1926; Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938; Federal Aviation Agency, 1958; becoming part of the Department of Transportation in 1966; Federal Highway Act of 1916 (federal funds made available to States for highway construction); Interstate Highway System, 1944 (funding began 1956); Interstate Commerce Commission given authority by Congress to regulate trucking and carriers on inland waterways, 1935-40; Department of Transportation, 1966.)

    Seventh Plank: Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. (Depart-ment of Agriculture, 1862; Agriculture Adjustment Act of 1933 -- farmers will receive government aid if and only if they relinquish control of farming activities; Tennessee Valley Authority, 1933 with the Hoover Dam completed in 1936.)

    Eighth Plank: Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies especially for agriculture. (First labor unions, known as federations, appeared in 1820. National Labor Union established 1866. American Federation of Labor established 1886. Interstate Commerce Act of 1887 placed railways under federal regulation. Department of Labor, 1913. Labor-management negotiations sanctioned under Railway Labor Act of 1926. Civil Works Administration, 1933. National Labor Relations Act of 1935, stated purpose to free inter-state commerce from disruptive strikes by eliminating the cause of the strike. Works Progress Administration 1935. Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, mandated 40-hour work week and time-and-a-half for overtime, set "minimum wage" scale. Civil Rights Act of 1964, effectively the equal liability of all to labor.)

    Ninth Plank: Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country. (Food processing companies, with the co-operation of the Farmers Home Administration foreclosures, are buying up farms and creating "conglomerates.")

    Tenth Plank: Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production. (Gradual shift from private education to publicly funded began in the Northern States, early 1800's. 1887: federal money (unconstitutionally) began funding specialized education. Smith-Lever Act of 1914, vocational education; Smith-Hughes Act of 1917 and other relief acts of the 1930's. Federal school lunch program of 1935; National School Lunch Act of 1946. National Defense Education Act of 1958, a reaction to Russia's Sputnik satellite demonstration, provided grants to education's specialties. Federal school aid law passed, 1965, greatly enlarged federal role in education, "head-start" programs, textbooks, library books.

  10. Anne 2012.07.31

    None of the "planks" cited by Mr. Sibson are peculiar to or define Marxism. They are provisions shared by regimes of many political philosophies in administering the political and social issues with which they have been confronted. None of them are part of the material dialectic, which is what those who oppose Marxism fear most.

    As a military brat who graduated from a DOD high school in Germany, I recognize that the Nazi episode is the biggest threat ever posed to western civilization and will be, despite Godwin's facetious law, a reference point for current and future political developments. What is alarming is that the right wing in America, as demonstrated by the subject of this post and its supporting comments, uses exactly the kind of propaganda tactic used by Goebbels and his crew to malign and inspire hatred against anyone who held a political philosophy that ran counter to the plans of the Reich. When someone warns of Marxists infiltrating and subverting state government I would like to know just who they are and what they believe or have done that justifies calling them Marxist.

    Or will they take the Joseph McCarthy strategy of making wild and false accusations and then accuse anyone who challenges them of puerile pettiness. The intellectual level on which discussion on political blogs is conducted is truly elevating. And, by the way, I have still to meet a Marxist in the upper midwest.

  11. larry kurtz 2012.07.31

    Liss looks like a short guy: it's often associated with hypogonadism.

  12. Anne 2012.07.31

    I should clarify that none of the actions which are cited as implementation of those planks are peculiar to or define the goals of Marxism to enforce the material dialectic.

  13. Dougal 2012.07.31

    Loved a dog that chased cars on my uncle’s farm where I worked summers in high school. That dog was insatiable! No matter how many times we yelled at Jynx, she’d get the look in her eye when the sound of tires rolling on gravel was barely audible. You’ve seen that hanged dog look? A wild eyed addict! While we yelled, “No Jynx! NO!!” that dog would creep away and run to her spot next to the mailbox and wait until the car or pickup would rush by, kicking up a rooster tail of dust. Jynx would wait until the car was 10 feet away and lunge at the tires. If nothing happened to hurt her, she’d run behind and chase in futility for several yards while the vehicle sped away. Most folks expected Jynx to be waiting next to the mailbox. Some strangers would freak out and slam on their breaks or swerve or honk. A young woman in a blue dress stopped one Sunday, turned around and demanded that for the sake of safety, my uncle should tie up his dog. He never did and Jynx’s obsessive ritual played out again and again for the rest of her life.

    When I read Steve’s posts on this blog, chasing conspiracies, I think of Jynx’s obsession for chasing cars. He’s up here pulling out quotes to shame and harangue the supposed liberals and post something so ridiculous as the commie manifesto, expecting us to read all 10 planks. I mean, his conspiracy chases here and elsewhere are well written but ultimately nonsensical, which makes them a wonder. Kind of an online Joe McCarthy hearing whether you wanted it or not, there it is.

    Jynx’s obsession with chasing cars ended in winter while I was at college. Between her poor traction on the ice and the mail car’s poor traction, inertia sealed her fate. My uncle kept her body behind the shed until spring allowed him to dig a proper grave. About all you can say about that dog was she was sure committed to chasing cars.

    Obviously, Steve’s a very bright guy. He reads a lot and writes a lot, but all that effort to manufacture wild conspiracies spoils the image. Heck, Jynx was a very good runner and good hunter if a car didn’t come by. But obsessions do weird things with raw talent. Not everybody here who supports President Obama and a liberal agenda is a commie lurking in the weeds. I’d bet $5 none of them are.

  14. Les 2012.07.31

    Kind of like the dog chasing and exposing Madoff for ten years before the feds finally listened and stepped in taking the fright out of his(Harry Markopolis) life.

    Luckily the world didn't ice over or inertia would have gotten him Dougal.

  15. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.07.31

    Jack, Liss is using the Alinsky tactics here. I'm just telling the truth. Godwin's Law is cute, but not absolute.

  16. Bill Fleming 2012.07.31

    Jack Anderson, there is no difference between Cory's comparing Liss to Himmler and Liss's carpet branding all non-right-wingnut extremists "Marxists and/or Idiots." In fact, there is more evidence for the former than the latter in Liss's own post.

    Godwin's law only applies when the comparison is inapt and hyperbolic. In this case, Cory's right on the money.

  17. Owen Reitzel 2012.07.31

    Liss is just saying what a lot of these far right people are thinking. The far right is all for free speech as long as people agree with them. They want to control everything hence the effort to surpress voter rights. Funny most of them vote democrat.

  18. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.07.31

    Right on, Bill. Liss never identifies a single Marxist. He offers no evidence of this grand conspiract of infiltrators. He's scapegoating, stoking fear... and yes, those are tactics used by McCarthy and Hitler.

    Steve, you try admirably to link most American policy decisions over the past century or more to Marxism. The education point is particularly telling. Marxists believe in free public education. So do I. So do most Americans. Are we all Marxists? And if we are, so what?

    Believe me, Steve, I am not a useful idiot. [Statler leans to Waldorf: "Well he's sure not useful!"] I am hypersensitive to being tricked or manipulated by anyone to forward any agenda other than my own. I could be a complete idiot and not realize the lifetime of manipulation that has led me to teach in public schools and write this blog... but I can't help thinking that's a more complex and conspiratorial explanation than is necessary.

  19. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.07.31

    Oh my. As MJL points out, there is much more evidence of a radical conservative (or is it crony capitalist) conspiracy infiltrating every state legislature than there is of some Marxist push. Good catch, MJL!

  20. troy 2012.07.31

    Sometimes I read something and I think are people crazy.

    Certain conservatives see a extreme liberal conspiracy in nearly everything. Certain liberals see an extreme conservative conspiracy in nearly everything. And, this thread is about both talking about each other.

    This said (am I crazy too?), I've been around politics for years. Conservatives have demonized leaders like O'Neill, Carter, Clinton, Kennedy, and others as being wacky. Liberals have done the same with regard to Reagan, Bush, Gingrich, and others as being wacky.

    The reality in my mind they were all pretty mainstream within their party and tranditions. I might not have agreed with the liberals but I knew understood them and could respect them. I hope most liberals feel the same about the conservatives I list.

    For about three years, I though Obama was also in the long-line of liberals (albiet a bit more liberal but understandable). Even though I disagreed, I understand the rationale for Obamacare, bailing out the auto industry and favoring big banks with Dodd-Frank, the Stimulus, HAMP, etc.

    But two things have made me doubt if he is within something I recognize. In some ways, it is like Obama is no longer the devil I knew but one I don't know which becomes scary.

    1) The contraception mandate on religious institutions and people of a certain religious views. Is making what is in the end an ideological statement (poor people already had access to free contraception and this mandate just extends FREE contraception to the middle class) so important that the concientious objections based on religious grounds have no standing in America? I don't mean to rile anyone but I really believe this is more kin to a tactic/imposition I'd expect from a Sharia country. But not in America. I really don't get it.

    2) The "you didn't build it" statement. Yes, I've read every attempt to explain it away from liberals and Obama supporters. Usually, I can get what they are saying. But all of the defenses in the end actually infer something I don't find appealing nor in the American tradition. Even prior to the first people who crossed the Cumberland pass, America has celebrated the innovators, explorers, etc. We didn't say to the settlers "you didn't do crap because if it wasn't for the infantry, you wouldn't have survived." We praised them.

    In late 2010, I wrote a piece on the War College that said this recession will never turn itself around no matter how much stimulus we have from the Federal Reserve or federal government for one reason:

    2009 was the worst year for new business creation since the Depression, only exceeded by 2010. 2011 was barely better. 2012 looks to be about like 2011.

    Friends, big businesses don't create net jobs. Never have and never will. Main Street and new innovative businesses do. Big businesses are just a base. When we don't have new businesses being formed, we are not going to have new jobs. Period.

    Why have these last three years not resulted in new businesses (usually a phenoneman post recession)? Because of the "you didn't build that" statement that it has been sensed by prospective entrepreneurs since day one. Why risk everything (retirement, home, etc.) to start a business knowing you have a 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 chance of success, if when you are successful you will have people saying: "Pay more taxes. You aren't paying your fair share. We want the fruits of your risk taking."

    For over 25 years, I've made my living talking to entrepreneurs. For 22 years, they were an optimistic bunch even when times were tough. They always believed the future was going to be bright. For the past three years, they have been depressed. They don't believe tomorrow will be good. And, they are taking no risk.

    And, who is suffering? The poor, unemployed, and underemployed.

  21. Jana 2012.07.31

    Wow...Obama as the devil? The inclusion of contraception as an example of Sharia law? That's like a Muslim law...right? (I'm sure no dog whistle was intended.) I'm not riled, just a little amazed and amused.

    In keeping with the spirit of the Olympics...maybe we should ask Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali what he thinks about the question of concientious objections based on religious grounds having no standing in America.

    As far as the confusion from Obama's comments, maybe he should have just let Elizabeth Warren cover that one. She does a little better job than the President did in discussing the social contract that makes America strong and makes building a business possible.

    I think that Troy understands better than anyone the importance of government involvement in building business.

  22. troy 2012.08.01

    The reference to "devil" was not to call the President the devil but to only use the phrase "the devil one knows." I'm sure you knew that too.

  23. Charlie Hoffman 2012.08.01

    TROY JONES-----Get that into an OpEd in every newspaper in America!!!

  24. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    Troy: are you the scorpion, the frog, or the crocodile?

  25. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.01

    Troy: "big businesses don't create net jobs"—may I quote you in the debate over the Governor's large project fund, Referred Law 14?

  26. Charlie Hoffman 2012.08.01

    Larry: are you the wizard, the jester, or the sorcerer?

  27. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    just nailing the 97 feces to the cathedral door, charlie.

  28. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Are we all Marxists?"

    You admit that were are following Marxist dogma, so what else can it be but useful idots?

    Anne is confusing principles with their method of implementation.

  29. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "there is no difference between Cory’s comparing Liss to Himmler and Liss’s carpet branding all non-right-wingnut extremists “Marxists and/or Idiots.”

    Right and there is no difference in calling all those non-Marxist far-left extremists socialists. Hitler was a National Socialist, not an American Patriot. Or do you believe American Patriots are promoting national socialism? The real fascists (a form aof socialism) are the SDGOP Establishment...Liss is not a member.

  30. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    And wasn't Liss opposed to the "Planning committee"? Check out the central planning agenda of Hitler's economic policy and consider the SDGOP establishment's current agenda and Cory's attack on "free markets":

    For today's generation, Hitler is the most hated man in history, and his regime the archetype of political evil. This view does not extend to his economic policies, however. Far from it. They are embraced by governments all around the world. The Glenview State Bank of Chicago, for example, recently praised Hitler's economics in its monthly newsletter. In doing so, the bank discovered the hazards of praising Keynesian policies in the wrong context.

    The issue of the newsletter (July 2003) is not online, but the content can be discerned via the letter of protest from the Anti-Defamation League. "Regardless of the economic arguments" the letter said, "Hitler's economic policies cannot be divorced from his great policies of virulent anti-Semitism, racism and genocide…. Analyzing his actions through any other lens severely misses the point."

    The same could be said about all forms of central planning. It is wrong to attempt to examine the economic policies of any leviathan state apart from the political violence that characterizes all central planning, whether in Germany, the Soviet Union, or the United States. The controversy highlights the ways in which the connection between violence and central planning is still not understood, not even by the ADL. The tendency of economists to admire Hitler's economic program is a case in point.

    In the 1930s, Hitler was widely viewed as just another protectionist central planner who recognized the supposed failure of the free market and the need for nationally guided economic development. Proto-Keynesian socialist economist Joan Robinson wrote that "Hitler found a cure against unemployment before Keynes was finished explaining it."

  31. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    So now both of the Democrat and Republcian Kool Aid drinkers need to give it a rest and understand that America's fascism is implementation of Marxism via evolution (Fabian as Keynse) versus the Communist implementation of Marxism...revolution.

  32. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    The Market is headed up, kids: buy Lee Enterprises and Daktronics today!

  33. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.01

    Steve, we're only useful idiots if there is someone using us. Where is the Marxist International Coordinating Committee?

    Fascism ≠ socialism. The difference is quite similar to that between Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. You can find some overlap, but they come from fundamentally different philosophies. Plus, fascism completely stinks, while socialism has its place in a healthy social order (as evidenced by public education, Sweden, and Jesus).

  34. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Where is the Marxist International Coordinating Committee?"

    New York

    And it takes a simple minded Kool Aid drinker to believe that if you are not a socialist, you are a fascist. Free market advocates like Ron Paul do no buy into the fascist agenda. Go back and read the piece from Rockwell.

  35. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    OK useful idiots, set down teh Kool AId and continue reading the Rockwell piece:

    What were those economic policies [of Hitler]? He suspended the gold standard, embarked on huge public works programs like Autobahns, protected industry from foreign competition, expanded credit, instituted jobs programs, bullied the private sector on prices and production decisions, vastly expanded the military, enforced capital controls, instituted family planning, penalized smoking, brought about national health care and unemployment insurance, imposed education standards, and eventually ran huge deficits. The Nazi interventionist program was essential to the regime's rejection of the market economy and its embrace of socialism in one country.

    Such programs remain widely praised today, even given their failures. They are features of every "capitalist" democracy. Keynes himself admired the Nazi economic program, writing in the foreword to the German edition to the General Theory: "[T]he theory of output as a whole, which is what the following book purports to provide, is much more easily adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state, than is the theory of production and distribution of a given output produced under the conditions of free competition and a large measure of laissez-faire."

    Keynes's comment, which may shock many, did not come out of the blue. Hitler's economists rejected laissez-faire, and admired Keynes, even foreshadowing him in many ways. Similarly, the Keynesians admired Hitler (see George Garvy, "Keynes and the Economic Activists of Pre-Hitler Germany," The Journal of Political Economy, Volume 83, Issue 2, April 1975, pp. 391—405).

    Even as late as 1962, in a report written for President Kennedy, Paul Samuelson had implicit praise for Hitler: "History reminds us that even in the worst days of the great depression there was never a shortage of experts to warn against all curative public actions…. Had this counsel prevailed here, as it did in the pre-Hitler Germany, the existence of our form of government could be at stake. No modern government will make that mistake again."

    On one level, this is not surprising. Hitler instituted a New Deal for Germany, different from FDR and Mussolini only in the details.

  36. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    Right Bill, Hitler hated the very people (secret societies) who was using him as a "useful idiot" and learn Bill:

    In past programs, we have stated that the New World Order could not have been realized had it not been for the intense activities of various secret societies throughout the world. We have mentioned one world-wide secret society, the Brotherhood Of Death Society, whose symbol is the skull with two crossed bones.

    The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny, p. 91).

    In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now entered into a New World Order. Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an American Brotherhood of Death Society, the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood of Death Societies (Bill Cooper, Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; plus Antony Sutton, Introduction To The Order, p.7).

    Thule members practice a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5).

    While the actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

  37. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Oh, that Sibby...mind like a steel trap. Locked shut.

  38. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01


  39. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    Bill, read and learn...more on Hitler and secret societies, the puppet masters for useful idiots:

    They have Seized Control of the Only Church Under One Temporal Office that was Established by God, the Catholic Church.
    (The teachings of a moral pope are guaranteed by the Holy Spirit.)

    Secret Rituals and Elaborate Rules — Puppet Masters — Rulers of the World
    One rule is that members must lie even to their wives concerning privileged knowledge and associations. In court Masons must lie to protect brothers they know to be guilty. Franklin Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin were all Freemasons. Adolph Hitler was a product of masonic breeding of select Jewish and Nordic parents.

  40. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    "At the end of the war, top Catholic officers organized the so-called ratlines that allowed Nazi war criminals to flee towards South America and other destinations via Francoist Spain. Bishop Alois Hudal and Cardinals Luigi Maglione, Eugene Tisserant and Antonio Caggiano, as well as the Roman Seminar in San Girolamo degli Illirici of Father Krunoslav Draganović were specially active in this task.

    Thousands of presumed European Catholic immigrants, actually Nazis in disguise, were able to escape from Europe using these networks."

  41. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "mind like a steel trap. Locked shut."

    That would be you an your fellow useful idiots Bill.

  42. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    larry, I beat you to the punch!!

  43. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    Santorum for veep: right, Steve?

  44. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    In which cult is Brian Liss a member, Sibby?

  45. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    "First, note that Catholic overwhelmingly support gay marriage, by 58% to 33% – a margin of 25%, and identical for both White and Hispanic Catholic groups." From Eternity to Here/a>.

  46. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Further proof that the inmates are now running the asylum.

  47. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Catholic overwhelmingly support gay marriage"

    The result of infiltration. Catholics have become useful idiots too.

  48. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Nothing worse than a gay, communist, Mason, Catholic, banker, capitalist Democrat, right, Sibby?

  49. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Nothing worse than a gay, communist, Mason, Catholic, banker, capitalist Democrat, right, Sibby?"
    Yes there is...useful idiots.

  50. Les 2012.08.01

    Yes Flem, a gay, communist, Mason, Catholic, banker, capitalist Republican, right Flem? ;-)

  51. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    I thought that's what they all were, Les. ;^) "R"s I mean. LOL.

  52. Dougal 2012.08.01

    God! I wanna go out drinkin' with Sibby! This guy just rips me up! May I PLEEEEEEEEASE be your useful idiot, Steve?

  53. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Good grief Mr Sibson,
    I consider my politics to be right wing, church going, Barry Goldwater, conservative but would much rather have my name associated with Bill Fleming, Larry Kurtz or Dougal than yours. My ancesters left Europe and fought the American Revolution to get away from people like you and now, here you are again.

  54. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Good call, Joseph. Sibby is kind of a "special needs" case. I've made him a standing offer to pay his cab fare to Yankton any time he's ready. ;^)

  55. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    He is not special needs, he just needs to go back to the 15th or 16th century. Would fit right in.

  56. Charlie Hoffman 2012.08.01

    This entire post reminds me a bit of the grossly overweight minister preaching to the congregation about sinning and what it does to your life all the while standing in blindness to the fact that gluttony is still one of them!! :)

  57. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    LOL. Maybe he's just trying to catch up on his reading, Joseph.

  58. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    Gee Joe,

    For a "church-going" person, you certainly seem pretty judgmental of Mr. Sibson. Yet I notice you don't attempt to provide any factual rebuttals whatsoever to any of the information he has presented.

    You merely tout your alleged "conservative" credentials and then proceed to engage in an ad-hominem attack eerily reminiscent of Herr Heidelberger's spurious allegations that Rep. Liss is the modern reincarnation of Himmler.

    I for one don't pretend to be an expert on secret societies and such. However, that discussion is at best one that is tangential to the other issues under discussion.

    On the other hand, I have studied at some length the economic and social policies of FDR, Hitler, Mussolini, and other "central planners" of the early part of the 20th century enough to know that we as a country are attempting to recycle and adopt many of their fatally flawed (and Keynes-influenced) economic policies.

    I politely suggest you dispense with the ad-hominem attacks and crack open a book or two as Mister Sibson has done.

    That way in the future, you can actually be able to add something more edifying and interesting to the discussion.

    I now yield back the balance of my time.

  59. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    I finally went to the web sites Mr Sibbey uses as points of reference. Mr Sebbey does not need to catch up on his reading he needs to stop reading.

  60. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    Thank you Mr. Hoffman for gracing us with a soliloquy about a hypocritical windbag.

    Suffice to say, the irony is not lost on us.

    Oh dear, it appears that the ad-hominem has reared its ugly head once again.

    Lord I apologize, and please be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea.

  61. Justin 2012.08.01

    Jack, if you truly believe in failed Keynesian economics, you must agree that Romney's tax platform is a joke.

  62. Justin 2012.08.01

    Isn't constantly accusing people of ad hominem attacks just another ad hominem strategy, Jack?

  63. Les 2012.08.01

    Wouldn't you agree that the average US citizen has stopped reading Joeseph?

  64. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    If the attacks are ad-hominem in nature, it is not somehow an ad-hominem attack to point out that the ad-hominem tactic is being used.

    So the answer is "no". But I suspect you already knew that, Justin.

    Nice try at confusing the issue though for those who in the thread who are unfamiliar with debate terms.

  65. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    It's not my fault people can't use facts instead of personal attacks in their arguments. Don't blame the messenger for pointing out the obvious.

  66. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.01

    Note that Jack has no response to my and Bill's completely non-ad-hominemal rebuttal of his effort to pull us off topic by pretending to understand rhetoric while avoiding any mention of the specific errors in Liss's screed.

  67. Les 2012.08.01

    Pokin away at Sib is good fun but, isn't truth in the mind of the beholder, as obviously indicated by this thread.

    From conversation with my customers of about 7000 per year, I find a similar variety as shown here. Is it down to who shouts the loudest with the most cutting remarks wins?

    I seldom see anyone rebutt a particular statement of Sib's. Let's see some meat, any jackass can kick up his heels.

  68. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    Why would I have to respond to Bill's post if he's actually providing a decent rebuttal to Liss (as you claim ?) .

    I never said Liss was right or wrong. As Les has indicated, truth is mind of the beholder. However, I did point out that your use of the "nazi" analogy as part of your "rebuttal" was every bit the ad hominem attack you claim to be an expert on.

    If you can't rebut him based on his statements and have to to resort to using the nazi card- ala "Godwin's Law", then what exactly does that say about your argumentation skills ?

    Or should I say "lack thereof" ?

  69. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Les, I've posted this before, but I'll post it again for your reference and consideration.

    It's from Thomas Jefferson.

    (Not sure where he ranks in Jack Anderson and Sibby's roster of "useful idiots" but he's not on mine.

    “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them..."

    Until such time as Liss, Anderson, and Sibson move beyond the abracadabra of their current paranoid rantings, I'll keep Jefferson's counsel and just turn up the ridicule burner.

    Hey, if nothing else, at least we'll all get a laugh out of it.

  70. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Mr Anderson,
    based on the web sites he sends me to, it would be impossible for me to present any facts to refute anything Mr Sibsen says because the web sites offer no facts, only crazy theories.
    Here's my telephone # 605-270-9515. Call me and I'll set up a time for you to come see my library of over 1000 books, yeah, a 1000(my wife of 45 years told me last year if I continued to buy she would devorce me, so now I use Kindle). Cover a time span from about 1500 to the present. Political, religion, economic and military history all non fiction, printed in the 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. All read with an open mind.
    As a believer I believe in judge not yest ye be judged but I am willing to be judged by God. Think I am doing God's work by judging and opposing people like Mr Sibson.

  71. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.01

    Jack, so let's get to the point: do you think Liss is right to say Marxists are infiltrating everything? Do you think he is right to call for a purge of education, media, government, and other professions based on people's political persuasion?

  72. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    Exactly what did I post that was "paranoid" Mister Fleming ?

    Care to offer an example ? Or are you one of those jackasses that Les was talking about ?

    I'll remind you those were his words, not mine. I am merely posing the question.

  73. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Why is it that I seem to get into a p------contest everytime I post here, the right thinks I am a useful idiot American and the left thinks I am "wilfully" ignorant American? Must be a real American.

  74. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.01

    Joseph, when you thread that needle, you may be hitting the patriotic/intellectual sweet spot. Or you may be full of baloney. Hard to tell! ;-)

    But don't let the p-contest get you down. We seem to agree that Liss's brand of politics is bad for the Republic. That should be our focus: making sure that scaremongers and name-callers don't turn us away from serious issues.

  75. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Won't get me down, I've jousted with windmills my whole life and enjoyed every second of it.

  76. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Jack, Cory has above presented you with a golden opportunity to clarify your intentions here. Don't pass it up. If it turns out you are indeed not paranoid, rest assured, I will issue my apology to you with alacrity, good sir.

  77. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    I agree. Scaremongers and name-callers shouldn't turn us away from serious issues.

    Since we agree on that, exactly when can we expect you to retract your fallacious "nazi" comparison and renounce name-calling ?

    Let us know when you plan to issue your retraction and announce your self-imposed moratorium on playing the "nazi" card so we can help schedule a news conference for you. ;-)

  78. Jana 2012.08.01

    1st it's Troy with the Sharia accusation around the contraception issue...completely ignoring that the President make accommodations for Catholic organizations.

    But now he get's trumped! Representative Mike Kelly compares it to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 when he says:

    "I know in your mind, you can think of the times America was attacked," he said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. "One is Dec. 7, that's Pearl Harbor Day. The other is Sept. 11, and that's the day the terrorists attacked. I want you to remember Aug. 1, 2012, the attack on our religious freedom. That is a day that will live in infamy, along with those other dates."

    Just wow!

    Meanwhile back in South Dakota the small government Republicans are mandating that Doctors lie to their patients.

  79. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    I too am awaiting your answer to Cori's question on purging our ranks of American who are different from us based on anything.

  80. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    Oh, and Bill, I don't believe there's a marxist boogey man hiding behind every corner.

    However, those who favor wealth-redistribution instead of hard work go by many different names these days.

    If a person's ideas seem to have their roots in a certain political philosophy, whether it be the philosophy of John Locke, Karl Marx, or someone else, why is that not a fair topic for discussion ?

    I am advocating for enlightened discourse as opposed to name calling.

    If that qualifies me as "paranoid", then you must be using one of those shiny new Orwellian dictionaries I've been hearing about.

  81. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01


    If "purges" need to be made in the legislature to one or both parties, there is already a mechanism in place for that. It's called the ballot box.

  82. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Fair enough, Jack. So, for clarity, we are asking you if you agree with Liss about his recommendation, as follows:

    “Remove Leftists from Positions of Power and Influence:

    They have infiltrated our churches, schools, universities, governments, media outlets, and many influential professions. Practically any organization of significant size or influence that has not been specifically founded to be conservative will be targeted for takeover by leftists. Identify them and remove them."

  83. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    (...pssst...Joseph and Cory, why do I get the feeling that Mr. Anderson is beginning to dissemble?)

  84. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Sorry Les, missed your question. I agree Americans don't read enough. Way too many get their information from only one source, and that source is a source that only supports what they want to believe.
    Jana, I do believe that a company has the right to dictate what benefits to offer their employees, if they don't to provide birth control coverage that is their right, however any health policy offered by the government is obligated to provide that coverage. Also believe that the government can choose who they do business with so the Feds could require that that coverage by provided as a condition for receiving any federal, state or local contracts.

  85. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Sidenote on the ACA mandate to Troy:

    I was thinking that once the mandate was identified by the SCOTUS as a tax, you would be okay with it, Troy. Not sure how that works with the church's tax exempt status, though. Do you know?

    As for the other "You didn't build that" thingy, I think that's just silliness. Kind of like your "devil" and "Sharia Law" deal.

    Pretty sure you didn't mean it literally and so, didn't take it that way.

  86. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Don't think a doctor has to lie to his/her patients merely tell them that some research shows higher rates of depression while other research shows no higher rates.
    Both sides are happy and a woman is free to decide the risks to herself.

  87. Jack Anderson 2012.08.01

    Bill, to answer your question, it's a (relatively) free country at least at the moment.

    So if Rep. Liss wants advocate for the replacement of those in positions of power with folks who are more like-minded, how is that really any different than you wanting to see those you consider "like-minded" in those positions ?

    Or are you one of those folks who is scared to death that there might be a free-market capitalist lurking around every corner ?

    Unlike some in this thread, I don't regard Liss's statements as a call to some kind of right-wing political purge any more than most of us here would view Mr. Varilek's pursuit of a seat in the House as some kind of left-wing crusade.

    It sounds to me like he just wants voters to be more informed about what their candidates actually stand for.

    s that really so odious that it merits a comparison to a nazi ? I certainly don't think so.

    I hope that clears things up for you a bit.

  88. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    The President did say what he said, I don't think he meant it the way he said it and that concerns me more than what he said. Wars, real wars, have been fought because of someone not speaking clearly. There is a real possiblity that Gulf War I was fought because an Iraqi diplomat while speaking to an American diplomat in Kuwait misunderstood what the American was saying and thought that the U.S. would have no problems with Iraq going into Kuwait. The leader of the United States should always say what he means and never say what he meant.

  89. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Joseph, yes, we all need to be careful how we phrase things. I'm all for that.

  90. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Jack, Liss is talking about more than politics. He deserved a comeuppance and he got one. Let's move on.

  91. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Mr Anderson,
    I went and read Representative Liss's article from both the left and right point of view. A better way than saying purge would have been saying it your way, we must work to insure, through the ballot box, that they are removed from positions of trust. Nobody could find fault with that. It's what you say not what you mean that counts, and the word purge inflames even me.

  92. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    One question remains for me, Joseph. How do you suppose Liss is recommending removing people from "our churches, schools, universities, governments, media outlets, and many influential professions" via the ballot box?

  93. Jana 2012.08.01

    Bill was right on the silliness of the “You didn’t build that” thingy. But then this is the silly season of elections. The only confusion about the You Didn't Build it thingy is from those on the right.

    The fact checkers all agree that Mitt's little campaign around "You didn't build it" has been labeled false.

  94. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Bottom line, it doesn't matter to me whether we collectively correct Mr. Liss's prose via ridicule (thereby encouraging him to rewrite his own muddled thoughts) or whether someone here acting as his apologist, presumes to do his rewrite for him.

    Either way, I think it best not to let his original writing stand unchallenged, lest we be left with the false impression that anyone here (except maybe Sibby) actually agrees with him. ;^)

  95. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "My ancesters left Europe and fought the American Revolution to get away from people like you and now, here you are again."

    So which flavor of Freemasonry are you? Templar like the Bushes?

  96. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "I politely suggest you dispense with the ad-hominem attacks and crack open a book or two as Mister Sibson has done."

    Charlie that advice applies to you too.

  97. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Wouldn’t you agree that the average US citizen has stopped reading Joeseph?"

    And thinking.

  98. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Do you think he is right to call for a purge of education, media, government, and other professions based on people’s political persuasion?"

    That is exactly what the New Age Theocrats have done it already Cory. But it was not done by a revolution, it was done by infiltration. Liss has it right. Crazy theory? The masons themselves take create for FDR, Stalin, Churchill and other members of their secret societies.

  99. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    "and then God poured the grease over the chicken and saw that it was good..." @wfpman

  100. Les 2012.08.01

    I don't think it matters as much if Jack or Joe agrees with Liss's statement Flem as much as it matters how Liss's prose hits the press.

    I would be very careful to not ever talk of purging or otherwise expunging an oppenent in the day this US has become for fear of hitting this terror list that will control our actions exponentially as time rolls on. Note the key word in my statement is also key to Liss's intent. Fear!

  101. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "scaremongers and name-callers"

    Cory this is what you said in teh post above:

    "I want to simply laugh at Liss, but his fascist paranoia becomes downright scary"

    How does the shoe feel on the left foo Cory? Set down the Kool Aid, turn on you brain, and maybe you will stop being such a hypocrit.

  102. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "Wars, real wars, have been fought because of someone not speaking clearly."

    What? Show me the facts on that. Sounds like some crazy theory to me.

  103. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    "How do you suppose Liss is recommending removing people from “our churches, schools, universities, governments, media outlets, and many influential professions” via the ballot box?"

    By exposing the true agenda of the secret societies to the American people. Sadly the infiltrated media will not let that happen, or they will marginalize the truth sayers so that people won't believe the truth and remain "useful idiots".

  104. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    Look, Sibby, a squirrel!

  105. Les 2012.08.01

    Me being what I consider a centrist and you stating the p*** contest with the righties and lefties when coming to Cory's blog Joseph, reminds me of the quote "the middle of the road is for yellow lines and dead armadillos".
    I can as easily get in that contest at the DWC as here and would rather use Eisenhowers "People talk about the middle of the road
    as though it were unacceptable. Actually,
    all human problems, excepting morals,
    come into the gray areas. Things are
    not all black and white. There have to
    be compromises. The middle of the road
    is all of the usable surface. The extremes,
    right and left, are in the gutters."

  106. troy 2012.08.01

    Bill, didn't mean it literally.

  107. Steve Sibson 2012.08.01

    Les, you are describing the trap call the Hegelian dialectic. Marx applied it too. You have to reject truth in order to apply it. There are a few of us who still believe in the truth, and we are the ones that the useful idiots of the infiltrators have been trained to be scared Cory has proven. We are also the ones that the change agents Fleming has proven.

  108. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Mr Sibson,
    Not a free manson, though I have had friends who are as well as friends who where Knoghts of Columbus opposite views by still my friends, real friends.

    Les, don't know if I take that as a compliment or an attempt at a slam.

    In the 1970's members of the Royal Air Force had a saying that probably fits in a couple of posts ago. Actually Bill said it earlier in American I'll try the RAF.
    "The wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead"

  109. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    As I suspected, Mr. Jones. Thank you for the confirmation.

  110. Bill Fleming 2012.08.01

    p.s. Joseph, the hamster thing. Great. Love it.

  111. John Hess 2012.08.01

    Larry, now that you bring him up, Gore must have been one of your role models. Liked to shock. He had no interest in Madison or South Dakota even though his father family was from here. Spent all those years in Italy after giving up on the U.S.

  112. Les 2012.08.01

    Not sure what you're reading into my post Joseph, but I thought it was clear I was speaking of a commonality, as a centrist of my debate with both sides of the aisle. If it had been an insult you would have known without a doubt. My goal when attacked on occasion is to not sink to the level of the attacker, unless of course as Flem and I have debated, it is a well armed attacker.

    As for Larry being shock treatment John, you can always tell a newbie when he is shock treatment to someone.

  113. larry kurtz 2012.08.01

    for those of us who can't build a spread sheet there is word.

  114. Les 2012.08.01

    Joseph, Im a Knight and have as friends and great aquaintances many Masons. Most of us have no view beyond the table we sit at during our meetings.

    That being said, most bankers you talk to have no clue of the fiat system they operate under or the manipulations going on in the larger banking(MFGlobal, JPMorg, Bear, Citi, Libor, HSB) industries of the world, US included. Does that mean there can be no motives outside the circles those friends you speak of or myself as a Knight operate under.

  115. Jeremiah Corbin 2012.08.01

    Time to start Vidal Days in Madison.

  116. Joseph G Thompson 2012.08.01

    Can't help myself. While reviewing all of these posts for small pearls of wisdom, I found something breathtaking. Larry admitted to a God creating something and I had some of that which He created. Chicken for supper tonight with a lite gravey and it was really good.

  117. Charlie Hoffman 2012.08.01

    We might be able to disengage those horns; but the caravan continues on....................... and for Sibby; if he was the captain of an Olympic swim team he would be trying to simultaneously drown and do CPR on his team members, all at the same time, and then apologizing as he did the chest compressions!

  118. Les 2012.08.01

    Nice smile on that Joseph. Maybe even golden plump, huh Larry?

  119. Jana 2012.08.02

    Just watching some that share Troy's outrage over the contraception piece of the ACA and can't help but think about how Rush called that young woman a slut for her testimony in front of Congress and no Republican had the courage to stand up to him.

    Now we have Liss...playing the crazy Freedom Fighter* talking about banishing South Dakotans that don't agree with him out of our churches, the media, schools and influential professions.... and not one Republican will stand up to his particular brand of crazy.

    *Anyone else remember when he ran for office in 2010 as a freedom fighter? I think he envisions himself as a modern day William Wallace....FREEDOM!!!!!

  120. Troy Jones 2012.08.02

    Jana, I am trying to be polite. Lets just say his words remind me of the many rants about ALEC.

  121. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    "Joseph, Im a Knight and have as friends and great aquaintances many Masons."

    Last night there was one thing that bothered me regarding the use of the term "useful idiot". I believe a better term would be "useful tool". So for those of you who are involved in Freemasonry, you are being used as useful tools to put a happy face on secret societies. I suggest getting out.

  122. Jana 2012.08.02

    Troy, are you suggesting that the rants against ALEC are unfounded?

  123. Anne 2012.08.02

    The post was about someone who was going to try to earn political power by claiming that state has been infiltrated by zombies resurrected from the old Soviet Union. And obsessives and raging maligners, Sibson and Jones, are excited into a frenzy.

    One must ask Mr. Kurtz if the chemical toilet can be flushed.

  124. larry kurtz 2012.08.02

    Convincing Sen. Adelstein to switch parties might start a cascade, Anne: even Bob Mercer seems horrified at how wealth is hoarded in the state.

    The lab in Lead is already bringing more liberal attitudes to Lawrence County and its environs: the feds are here to save us.

  125. larry kurtz 2012.08.02

    I'm headed East River in a couple of days: will know more soon.

  126. Les 2012.08.02

    What river are you going east of to find out more on Sen Adelstein and the hole where money goes Larry?

  127. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    "has been infiltrated zombies resurrected from the old Soviet Union"

    First Anne confuses principles with their implementation and now doesn't understand that the old Soviet Union was the one infiltrated. The infiltrators did not originate in the Soviet Union.

  128. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.02

    --I want to simply laugh at Liss, but his fascist paranoia becomes downright scary in his recommendation to “Remove Leftists from Positions of Power and Influence”:

    Of course, when it comes to the fascist paranoia of "Remove traditional marriage advocates from doing business & remove their businesses from our cities", it's all okay, right?

    And, you should know that the first to make a lame comparison to Hilter, Himmler, or fascists, loses the argument--that's traditional blog etiqutte.

    The irony is of course, that we have an avowed leftist citing other evil leftists to further his own point. Irony squared, is that he probably didn't even realize it.

  129. Anne 2012.08.02

    The Soviet was the victim of infiltration? Didn't know Stalin came from South Dakota.

  130. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02's_law

    "Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form.[4] The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses, irrespective of whether it's appropriate or not. Precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.[5]"


    As per above, Cory's reference IS appropriate in this instance. If Liss doesn't want to be compared to the Nazi's, he should stop writing like one.

  131. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    Maybe we need a new rule about envoking Godwin's Law without first engaging one's thinking mind with one's typing fingers.

  132. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.02

    --If Liss doesn’t want to be compared to the Nazi’s, he should stop writing like one.

    Was Liss' post written in German?

  133. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    Stalin was a Freemason.

  134. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.02

    --As per above, Cory’s reference IS appropriate in this instance

    Well no. Cory's (?) comparison is leftist "contrasting" a rightwinger's post with extremist leftists, and in the process, unknowingly aligned his own [leftist] views with other extreme leftists. In reality, he tried to compare rightwing condemnation of Marxism to suport of fascism, which is odd because fascism is just another shade of Marxism. The anti-Marxism of Liss IS indeed anti-fascism. The anti-fascism of Cory is a self-condemnation of his own leftist views.

    I doubt Cory even realized it though.

  135. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    "his fascist paranoia becomes downright scary"

    OK Julie you asked for it. You must have missed the top of this thread where the anti-free market left lines up with Hitler. Now I will point out that it is the anti-gun left you again line up with Hitler:

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens.

    No you know why it was so easy to send Jews to the gas chambers.

  136. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02


    In case you don't know, the first infiltration took place in the Garden of Eden in the form of a serpent.

  137. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    Jana, in case you haven't guessed it, this thread has now officially reached the bottom of that rabbit hole I was telling you about. ;^)

  138. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    Right Bill, Brian Liss a fascist is a rabbit hole. Once the left (including RINOs) hit the bottom they find out that it is they who are the fascists.

  139. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    Mad Hatter.

  140. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.02

    --OK Julie you asked for it. You must have missed the top of this thread where the anti-free market left lines up with Hitler. Now I will point out that it is the anti-gun left you again line up with Hitler.

    I think you've confused me with Cory.

    I'm fully aware of how Marxists, anti-Chic Fil A gay haters, Leftists (like Cory) and fascists all line up. They're all shades of the dangerous left.

  141. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.02

    --Paranoia and political scapegoating are diseases

    Except for those evil schemers like the Koch bothers, right?

  142. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.02

    --I want to simply laugh at Liss, but his fascist paranoia becomes downright scary in his recommendation to “Remove Leftists from Positions of Power and Influence”:

    But when your president's hero and mentor, Saul Alinsky, urges the same things, it's called community activitism!

  143. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    "I think you’ve confused me with Cory."

    Julie, I was confused. I took what you intended to quote as your own position. I did figure it out when I read you other comments. Sorry about that.

  144. Les 2012.08.02

    It definately is bottoming with Wikepedia quotes Flem. Dig a little, you'll find the bottom.

    Invoking Wikepedia on a regular basis is almost like the first one to quote Hitler loses, in my mind.

    BTW Flem, you treat NE Alice as good as I force myself to treat Jana, I like her style.

  145. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    Me: Welcome to the rabbit hole, Les.

    Have some wine.

    Les: I don't see any wine.

    Me: There isn't any.

    Les: Then, it wasn't very civil of you to offer it.

    Sibby to Les: Your hair wants cutting.



  146. Les 2012.08.02

    It is comforting to understand you would occupy the rabbit hole with Sib and I Flem!
    I would suggest with your high literary function you could at least spell with comprehension my friend. A correction.

    Sibby to Les: Your hare wants cutting. After all Flem, you are a rabbit to, and an educated one at that!

  147. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    Fleming, better to be at a tea party that one that serves Kool Aid.

    Do you disagree with Hitler's position on guns?

  148. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    Sibby, I disagree with what Hitler did with his guns, yes.

  149. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    I wish someone would have taken them away from him sooner rather than later. But we finally did, so, good.

  150. Dougal 2012.08.02

    Good grief, Bill. Is Sibby still chasing conspiracy theories on this thread?

  151. Bill Fleming 2012.08.02

    He's relentless, Dougal. And high maintenance.

  152. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    "Sibby, I disagree with what Hitler did with his guns, yes."

    So then why are you advocating his policy be put in place here in America?

  153. Steve Sibson 2012.08.02

    Dougal, what conspiracy are you talking about?

  154. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.02

    Vidal Days in Madison: I'll bet that would be a hotbed of left-wing revelry. Let's do it... and give Liss a target-rich environment for his purge!

  155. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.02

    [Holy cow: 162 comments?! Really?!]

  156. G-Man 2012.08.02

    This kind of partisan and paranoid political crap reminds me of a digital billboard I saw driving through Spearfish today. It's in downtown Spearfish across from the Stadium and it displays many different ads, including: "Vote For the American?" I sure hope it's not what I think it means, but, then again it probably is what I think it means. I have to give it to our President, he has put up with so many slights and hateful garbage these past 3 1/2 years with class, calmness, and steadiness. It never gets him down and I don't think it ever will and I believe that is why his detractors get more angry and vocal. The President gets under their skin and drives them crazy...LOL!

  157. grudznick 2012.08.02

    Sibby. Hitler. Kurts and 1OO dead kitties.

    That's good for a couple hundred comments every time, and why are you ARE the biggest blog between Rapid and Dell Rapid.

  158. Troy Jones 2012.08.02

    Jana, I see no distinction between what Liss says and what is said about ALEC.

  159. Troy Jones 2012.08.02

    Factually or intellectually.

    Both are efforts to demonize those they disagree with because the disagree.

  160. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.03

    Troy, the main difference is that Liss is talking about infiltrators who don't exist. When I talk about ALEC (and note, I don't talk about them much), I talk about a group that really exists in South Dakota, that really introduces model legislation.

  161. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.03

    "Vote for the American"?! I've got to see that... and give the owner heck!

  162. Steve Sibson 2012.08.03

    "Troy, the main difference is that Liss is talking about infiltrators who don’t exist."

    Cory, keep drinking the Kool Aid.

    Neither Romny nor Obama will be a vote for the American. They are both controlled by the infiltrators...Council of Foreign Relations. Cory read Professor Quigley's Tradegy and Hope, if you want to get it from a true believer. He was Bill Clinton's mentor. Where did Clinton go to college?

  163. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.03

    It's not Kool-Aid, Steve. Your tiresome rhetoric shows the problem. To prove Liss's point, that Marxists have infiltrated every institution, you have to appeal to conspiracy and delusion. No one in this discussion has shown us a single Marxist operating the way Liss says they are in any influential position in South Dakota. To prove my point, that ALEC has influence over South Dakota politics, I don't have to appeal to any secrets. I just link to a report on WNAX and cite Senator Dan Lederman's own words. ALEC is there; Marxist infiltrators are not.

  164. Steve Sibson 2012.08.03

    Again Cory, read Tradegy and Hope. There is no conspiracy, there is a Plan.

  165. G-Man 2012.08.03

    Here is another interesting observation while driving from Oregon to South Dakota: why is it that the President's detractors have to have their hateful and insulting bumper stickers about 3 times the size of a normal one and place it right in the center of their back windshield? Yah, I can "hardly" see it, but, I don't think they are BIG enough. These insulting bumper stickers need to be at least the size of the windshield itself, so, no one can miss the point or non-point they are trying to make. LOL

  166. Justin 2012.08.03

    That this has so many comments is sad and predictable.

    All the PWT SD republicans think they are in the same category as sheldon adelstein. The people you vote for that rob you blind are happy to have you off discussing Marxist conspiracy while they empty your pockets. Otherwise you might be paying attention to their actions.

    South Dakota has the 2nd worst governing principles in the nation and they got there on the back of a bunch of idiotic people who prefer to talk nonsense about conspiracy rather than taking stewardship of their responsibility as voters.

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