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President Barack Obama: Rape Is Rape… and Men Shouldn’t Rule Women’s Bodies

Last updated on 2012.12.24

Addressing Missouri Congressman Todd Akin's outrageous comments on rape, President Barack Obama erases any Ryan bounce, wins 75% of the women's vote, and tells you one big reason he should be our President for Four More Years:

Rape is rape and the idea that we should be parsing and qualifying and slicing what types of rape we're talking about doesn't make sense to the American people and it certainly doesn't make sense to me. What I think these comments do underscore is why we shouldn't have a bunch of politicians, the majority of whom are men, making health care decisions on behalf of women [President Barack Obama, press briefing, quoted by Jake Tapper, "President Obama Calls Akin Comments 'Offensive,' Declares 'Rape Is Rape'," ABC News: Political Punch, August 20, 2012].

Amen, Mr. President.

* * *

Related: Hop in the South Dakota Not-So-Wayback Machine to hear some Akinesque language from a notorious South Dakota conservative who might bring a heaping helping of local GOP misogyny to the 2014 Senate race:

Bill Napoli might make my blogging as easy as Kristi Noem does.


  1. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    So Cory, you and Obama believe that children of criminals should be given the death penalty without due process? Shouldn't equal rights apply to all?

    [CAH: Steve, you know the answer: the rights you ascribe to a fetus are superseded by the rights of uniquely burdened women to personal bodily autonomy.]

  2. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    Exactly, Cory: Napoli uses terrorism like he uses a hula hoop for toilet paper.

  3. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    Of course, Lynne Cheney should be given due process, Sib: but only my swimming sperm deserves to find an adoptive parent.

  4. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "Rape is rape"

    So Obama does not believe in an "alleged" rape versus a convicted rape. And he is the Chief executive power in this country. I say that disqualifies himself to be President. The woman is automatically is granted police powers via an alleged rape to execute a death penalty on the child of the alleged rapist without a court hearing? Is that social justice in your eyes Cory?

    [CAH: Wrong. You play word games, Steve. The woman is not granted police powers. Police and the state have no power to terminate a pregnancy. Nor do they have the power to force one upon women. And you know full well that we're not talking about "alleged" versus "convicted".]

  5. Troy Jones 2012.08.21

    Biden's statement about chains was stupid and had the appearance of making light of slavery. I do not believe Biden had that intent. In fact, when you watch Biden's reaction after he said that you have a sense he knew he made a mistake. I'm very disapointed he didn't correct himself at the time and apologize for the analogy. In fact, I think this is actually Biden's biggest mistake. I'm tired of people thinking sticking to their guns and not admitting stupidity.

    Akin's statement was equally stupid and had the appearance of making light of rape. I don't believe Akin has that intent. Where I fault Akin is similar to Biden. His apology was couched in some sort of goofy explanation of what he meant to say. Just apologize.

    For anyone who has watched my remarks, I've defended Biden as basically a good person who too often speaks without thinking. It is the downside to a gregarious person who is willing to open himself up and be intimate with the people. It is overall a good trait if coupled with a willingness to also issue a mea culpa. Failure to do so is a lack of humility, a vice.

    I don't know as much about Akin so I don't know if basically he is a good person. But, like Biden, I do think decency is to give the benefit of the doubt.

    This said, I think Akin should withdraw from the race. The reality (as this post indicates) is there is a double standard with regard to stupid off-the-cuff remarks. For one side there is forgiveness (even if they don't ask for an apology which rankles me) and for the other side there is none. It is reality and Akin must accept it and withdraw. What happens to Biden? That is the President's call. Personally, I think the President should set an example one way or another. Give Akin the benefit of the doubt or can Biden. Anything else is not honest.


  6. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    Larry, not surprised that a person who could care less about a fair and just system of justice would resort to unfounded and crude personal attacks on those you disagree with. Seems like there is alot of that going on in politics nowadays.

  7. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "I think Akin should withdraw from the race."

    You RINOs need to grow a backbone, or are you just happy to see a conservative pushed out of the public sphere, only to be replaced by a RINO like Romney who pretends to be conservative.

  8. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    That Vice President Biden is a more progressive Democrat than his boss tickles us lefties to the core, Troy: i'll take his finger over the Button over Paul Ryan's even after a really crappy day.

  9. Troy Jones 2012.08.21


    As much as it might satisfy a sense of justice to you for Akin to stay in the race, it will be a pyrrhic victory as Akin will lose the Senate race. Personally, this issue will supercede other issues, a sacrifice I'm not willing to make.

  10. Dougal 2012.08.21

    I respect Troy's writing abilities and thought process, but to compare the Biden gaffe with this is patently ridiculous. There is a culture in the Taliban wing of the Republican Party that actually talks like this. Listen to Kitty Werthmann talk some time. Listen to Ted Klaudt ... whoops, he's in prison for applying his assumed expertise on women's reproduction systems to his rape victims who shared his roof at home.

    Listen to Napoli's declaration about what constitutes rape. He says it with such authority. Then listen to Rep. Todd Akin list his description of what constitutes rape, along with his vast knowledge of female physiology.

    By tossing the Biden gaffe in the mix and calling it "equally stupid" we find Troy on the Rapist Rights Defense Team, trying to white wash Akin's horrid statement of personal belief as something a lot less.

    I think we're going to see a lot more of Troy's Akin defense if the GOP fails in its whispered attempt to encourage Akin to resign his candidacy.

  11. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --So Cory, you and Obama believe that children of criminals should be given the death penalty without due process? Shouldn’t equal rights apply to all?

    Kudos, Steve.

    We should visit the sins/crimes of the father upon his children. That's not part of the social contract, is it?

  12. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --What I think these comments do underscore is why we shouldn’t have a bunch of politicians, the majority of whom are men, making health care decisions on behalf of women

    Yeah, but he's happy to make FORCED health care decisions for churches, elderly, and men.

    I can't sell my blood or organs because of laws passed by men.

    [CAH: Specious, Julie. The President and I do not support any such forced decisions akin to the uterine control that Akin and the GOP so avidly seek.]

  13. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --By tossing the Biden gaffe in the mix and calling it “equally stupid

    Bozo Biden's ongoing gaffes are not just stupid, they're disqualifications for ANY federal offcie..

  14. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    jesus, mary, and joseph: give me strength.

  15. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    Even Obama's predecessor doesn't believe that rape is rape.

    Clinton argued that Monica could be having sex with him, but he was not having sex with her. Of course, since he was the most powerful pervert in the world, the power disparity meant that she could not consent to any sexual activities with him--therefore, all of Clinton's sexual activity with Monica was indeed rape--and rape is rape.

    [CAH: Wow: not only irrelevant, but demonstrates that Julie has to reach back to 1998 talking points to barricade herself behind her failing worldview.]

  16. Dougal 2012.08.21

    Julie, you obviously are better qualified than Joe Biden. Why don't you run for U.S. Senator? Let's see if you've got ANY qualifications that exceed those of "Bozo Biden" who you think is so lacking for ANY federal office.

  17. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    On a related note, the sexual harassment suit against Obama's Sec'y Janet Napolitano proceeds:

    Gee, who would have thought that that woman would harass males?

    After Clarence Thomas, we have to believe all accusations of sexual harassment, right?

    [CAH Correction: Julie is now regressing even further, to 1991, to avoid addressing the powerful truth of our President's words. Why rebut when ridicule is sufficient?]

  18. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Julie, you obviously are better qualified than Joe Biden.

    A cold pile of horse dung is more qualified than Bozo Biden.

  19. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    Cory isn't a public servant, he's a blog host who clearly scares the crap out the earth hater party or you wouldn't be here.

    Step out from behind the curtain, Pat...speaking of a big man.

  20. Dougal 2012.08.21

    Another chapter from the Rapists Rights Defense Team. This one is from today’s KMEG (Sioux City) news story on Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, who sticks up for his pal Rep. Todd Akin and offers his views on what constitutes rape and female physiology.

    Here’s an excerpt:

    King supports the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act." It would ban Federal funding of abortions except in cases of forcible rape. Right now, Medicaid also covers abortions for victims of statutory rape or incest - for example, a 12 year old who gets pregnant.

    Congressman King says he's not aware of any young victims like that.

    "Well I just haven't heard of that being a circumstance that's been brought to me in any personal way, and I'd be open to discussion about that subject matter," he said.

  21. Dougal 2012.08.21

    These clowns get elected and make decisions that hurt women and children. They are completely out of touch with reality.

  22. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "but to compare the Biden gaffe with this is patently ridiculous"

    Dougal, you are right. Biden is proud of his, while Akin is sorry.

  23. Troy Jones 2012.08.21


    "Equal" is probably in the eye of the beholder. However, across a certain line of gravity, you are just mincing degrees that don't matter much.

    Slavery and rape are grave offenses against the dignity of human beings and to argue about which is worse is not worth the effort.

    If I believed either Biden or Akin intentionally made light of either, I'd be over the top calling for their removal. I definitely don't believe it of Biden because I have personally met him and observed him over a period of years. I do not have the same experience with Akin but give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Unless you or anyone else has personal experience with both Biden and Akin, you have a duty to apply the same standard to both.

    1) Either give the benefit of the doubt and stand down.
    2) Call for the ouster of both.

    Failure to do one or the other and be selective gives the appearance you are giving one the benefit of the doubt because of his political views and "raping and lynching" the other for his views.

    P.S. Calling Republicans "Taliban" is offensive to me. I don't support calling the most liberal Democrats "Stalinists" because the comparison is excessively and intentionally derogatory and is an offense against the truth, denigrating public discourse.

  24. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Congressman King says he’s not aware of any young victims like that

    That's because he's right: pregnancies arising from rape or incest are very rare.

    Good stats are hard to come by, mostly because Planned Parenthood INC skews them when PP counsels young girls to say it was rape or incest in order to avoid getting parental or judicial permission for the underage abortion.

    In too many circumstances, these young girls are impregnated by their creepy 20-30 yr old boyfriends.

    But, good stats are tough to come by in this area.

  25. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "Another chapter from the Rapists Rights Defense Team."

    Dougal, how about automatic death penalties for convicted rapists and leave their children out of it.

    [CAH: Steve, you misuse the word "their." A rapist can make no claim to possess any embryo, fetus, or child that might result from rape. The initial act of violence forfeits any legal rights to the product thereof. The fate of that embryo is entirely the woman's.]

  26. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21


  27. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --I definitely don’t believe it of Biden because I have personally met him and observed him over a period of years

    If that's true, then you must be aware of what a racist fool he is.

    [CAH: baseless insult.]

  28. Dougal 2012.08.21

    Death penalties for convicted rapists? I'm open to the idea, Steve. Life sentences with no hope of appeal? Definitely! Rapists are predators. They don't get better, but become only worse and more violent.

    Julie, you have no clue. When are you going to run for U.S. Senate? I'll mail you $5.

  29. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    Death penalty for rapists: every diocese in the US would be wiped out.

  30. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --–I definitely don’t believe it of Biden because I have personally met him and observed him over a period of years

    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with a guy who, in 2008 while campaigning, spoke of how his first wife was hit & killed by a drunk driver.

    The only problem was that the man involved in the tragic accident that killed Biden's first wife was not drunk, and Biden knew it. What kind of a CREEP would say such a thing?

    The man's daughter was devastated by Biden's comments. How do you "walk those comments back"? It's UNFORGIVEABLE.

    The guy's an idiot.

  31. Troy Jones 2012.08.21

    Steve makes a good point as there has been no apology from Biden (that I've seen) and I'm very disappointed. Plus, I don't forgive without a mea culpa. On the other hand, Akin said:

    "“Rape is an evil act. I used the wrong words in the wrong way and for that I apologize. As the father of two daughters, I want tough justice for predators. I have a compassionate heart for the victims of sexual assault. I pray for them. The fact is, rape can lead to pregnancy. The truth is, rape has many victims. The mistake I made was in the words I said, not in the heart I hold. I ask for your forgiveness.”

    As a father of three daughters, I will forgive. FYI: I have been a witness in court in the rape of a friend as I was the person who found her right after. I know quite closely the horror of rape.

  32. Dougal 2012.08.21

    Troy - My first statement stands, including the use of Taliban to describe a radicalized fundamentalist religious/political movement that seeks to tear down civilized thought to turn their very narrow and repressive religious views into law, preferring absolute power over the power of masses' right to vote.

    I think that accurately describes the radical right, who now claim obviously intentional statements by people like Bill Napoli, Todd Akin and now Steve King as an "oops" moment. They aren't. This is how they talk among themselves and in front of like-minded ghouls. But when they get caught saying these outrageous and foolish things in public, well, it's a gaffe, like the Vice President. That doesn't wash, Troy.

    I pray the moderates in the Republican get a spine and remove control of their party from the Taliban wing. I've listened to them whine about the neo-cons in the 2008 election and then keep quiet in the 2010 when the goofballs overran the institution of the GOP. The salvation of the Republican Party may come this year when the extremists lose the Presidency and both Chambers of Congress, not to mention legislatures across our nation.

  33. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    sharia law got nuthin' on the Grand Old Pricks

  34. Ben Cerwinske 2012.08.21

    -I don't have a problem with someone who believes that an unborn child should be protected regardless of the circumstances. If you believe that an unborn child is a human being it doesn't make sense to believe anything else.

    -Having said that, phrases like "forcible" and "legitimate" rape make no sense. If they mean "convicted" rape that at least makes sense. Whether it would make good policy would be a separate debate.

    -I'm not for overly-criticizing Biden for his comments. My only problem is that a Republican wouldn't get the same benefit of the doubt from most people on the left.

    -As for Akin he should get out of the race and be taken off the Science Committe because I don't know how you can dance around comments that indicate you believe a woman's body can actually will itself to not get pregnate simply becuase of the circumstances...

  35. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    "actually rapes:" undeniably and reliably raped.

  36. Troy Jones 2012.08.21


    At least I know your perspective. Repulsive but not wish-washy.

  37. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "My first statement stands, including the use of Taliban to describe a radicalized fundamentalist religious/political movement that seeks to tear down civilized thought to turn their very narrow and repressive religious views into law, preferring absolute power over the power of masses’ right to vote."

    That would describe the New Age Theocrats that are setting up the one-world government:

    Earth Charter Preamble
    ... we are one human family and one Earth community with a common destiny. We must join together to bring forth a sustainable global society founded on respect for nature…. Towards this end, it is imperative that we, the peoples of Earth, declare our responsibility to one another, to the greater community of life, and to future generations.

    According to the Charter, humanity must undergo a global “change of mind and heart.” And the UN’s all-wise seers visualize themselves as the lead change agents for this global undertaking.

    The Earth Charter Initiative , however, candidly admits that it intends to recruit your children as change agents, as well. “We seek to increase the participation of young people in utilizing the Earth Charter as a guideline in their work as active agents of change,” says the Earth Charter Initiative website.

  38. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    Barack Obama for President of the United States of Earth.

  39. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    And Dougal, those of you who hate the Judeo/Christian Worldview have that same exact mindset as the Taliban.

  40. Dougal 2012.08.21

    Excuse my bluntness, Steve, but that is a purely stupid and incorrect statement. I am a Christian and deeply spiritual person who feels a strong connection with God and respects others. Since you so frequently leap to accuse others of hating Christians, perhaps it's your little voice inside crying for help from your own hatred of God, Jesus and the love we share as Christians. Did somebody take away your baby blanket when you were too small?

  41. mike 2012.08.21

    Bill Napoli is an idiot.

    He makes Akin look sane...

    The real issue is simple. Noem and Paul Ryan support something very similar to Akin.

  42. mike 2012.08.21

    This is why Noem won't hold town halls. She might have to distance herself from Akin.

    [CAH: That and dozens of other hard questions she couldn't handle, right, Mike?]

  43. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Noem and Paul Ryan support something very similar to Akin.

    Barry Obama supports partial birth abortion--not "something very similiar", but ACTUAL partial birth abortions.

    [CAH: Again, Julie lies. The President does not support a specific medical procedure. He opposes government interference in women's health care decisions.]

  44. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    BHO also supports gender selective abortions. Not something like, but actual abortions for the sole reason of the sex of the child.

    So, tell us again, who IS the radical?

    [CAH: Now Julie's really fantasizing. No evidence.]

  45. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Biden misspoke

    That's funny.

    The only time Biden "misspeaks" is when he says something reasonable.

    Stand up Chuck!

  46. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    Look, Bimbo: Dems will decide at our convention whether to embrace another veep. Don't expect a call.

  47. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "Biden misspoke"

    But will Obama say "Rape is Rape" when Bill Clinton introduces him at the Democratic Convention?

    Juanita Broaddrick, a former nursing home administrator, said during an interview with Sean Hannity of Fox News Channel’s Hannity and Colmes program, that Clinton, while he was still attorney general of Arkansas, sexually assaulted her.

    At first known as “Jane Doe No. 5″ in Kenneth Starr’s impeachment report to Congress, she had filed an affidavit in the Paula Jones case, at first denying Clinton had made any unwelcome sexual advances to her. But Broaddrick later claimed to investigators for independent counsel Starr that she was raped.

  48. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    Cory, do you think Broaddrick's claims are legitimate? Was it a legitimate rape?

  49. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    santa claus, sani-flush, drano....

  50. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    "I am a Christian and deeply spiritual person who feels a strong connection with God and respects others."

    Unless I believe you are a member of "a radicalized fundamentalist religious/political movement". Right Dougal?

  51. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Was it a legitimate rape?

    Rape is rape.

    Amen, Cory???

  52. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    "Researchers have identified a protein present in all mammalian semen—camels, weasels, bats, bunnies, piglets, horses, blue whales, and humans (that's all the mammals, right?)—that directly affects the female brain and stimulates ovulation.

    It's called nerve growth factor (NGF if you're nasty) and it's typically found in nerve cells, where it regulates nerve maintenance." Jezebel

  53. Steve Sibson 2012.08.21

    And if it wasn't for a stained dress and DNA testing, the Democrats would still be calling Paula Jones a liar. The Democrats respect and support for women just has no ends.

  54. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    but you don't believe in science, sibby: and you clearly don't believe in sex.

  55. Dave 2012.08.21

    Whoops. Let's try this again...

    Yes, Biden's comment was insulting and in poor taste. But it rather pales in comparison to the some of the hijinks being pulled by Republicans across the nation as they deliberately strike a blow against blacks and other minorities:

    “A Pennsylvania judge ruled Wednesday (Aug. 15) that a new Republican-supported state voter ID law could be implemented for Election Day, despite objections that it was a partisan attempt to hurt President Obama and could cost thousands of voters the right to cast ballots … The detailed, 70-page opinion by (Judge) Simpson, a veteran of the bench who is a Republican, makes it much more likely that Pennsylvania voters will now be required to show specific forms of photo ID. It is one of many new restrictive voting laws across the country — in almost all cases, sponsored by Republicans and opposed by Democrats.” (


    “Supporters argue the laws are important protections against in-person voter impersonation fraud, but civil rights organizations and election historians see evidence of a more sinister legacy. Obtaining certificates of birth, marriage and divorce needed to get a proper photo ID can be an obstacle for otherwise eligible and longtime voters…” (

    I expect we’ll hear Troy continue to whine about Biden. It takes the focus off the true harm the GOP is causing the black community at this moment.

  56. Jana 2012.08.21

    The GOP leaders need Akin to get out of the race for the following reasons:
    1) There is already a very large gender gap in Obama's favor
    2) The GOP needs to create a separation between Akin and Ryan
    3) Paul Ryan has led the way in trying to pass bills that redefined rape.
    4) Paul Ryan has introduced legislation that turns women who use contraceptives into murderers HR 3, HR 212
    5) When asked if he would support a personhood bill, like HR 212, Mitt Romney said "absolutely."
    6) The Republican platform makes no exception for rape and incest in their anti-choice position.
    7) It highlights other GOP lawmakers who have made similar statements.

    The biggest problem is not that Akin's beliefs and statement are so out of's that they are widely shared in the GOP. This makes it not just a Missouri issue but a national issue that goes up ballot and down ballot in every state.

  57. Troy Jones 2012.08.21


    If legitimate court rulings can only come from members of one's own party, we no longer have a country of laws but are a banana republic. To dismiss the law because it came from a Republican judge makes just that assertion.

    Second, at the end of the day, the facts in the black community are real and Obama must take his share of the responsibility.

    Your attempt to distract notwithstanding.

  58. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    RT @ppppolls Obama trails Romney 56-40 with white voters in VA, but makes up for it with a 75-19 lead among non-whites: PPP.

  59. Erika 2012.08.21

    To compare Biden's chain comment to Akin's comments about rape and women's bodies is illogical. Biden was speaking of metaphorical chains. Akin was speaking about actual rape and actual women's bodies. Had Biden been speaking about actual chains and said "From the doctors and metallurgists I've spoken to I understand that when a man is legitimately chained, his body has systems in place to shut that whole thing down. They secrete acid from their skin dissolving the shackles. So being legitimately chained rarely results in actual shackling. And by the way, I'm on the Science and Technology committee." then I think we would all agree that the man should be kept far away from sharp pointy objects like pens that can be used to draft actual legislation affecting actual people. I can forgive Akin for his comments, I just don't want him or anyone like him having anything to do with what goes into or comes out of my uterus.

    [CAH: Excellent, Erika. Huge difference on what Biden and Akin said.]

  60. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --expect we’ll hear Troy continue to whine about Biden. It takes the focus off the true harm the GOP is causing the black community at this moment.

    One cannot open a bank account, get a credit card, or fly, without a valid ID. Since, the Dems believe that blacks are incapable of obtaining an ID, and since Dems have done NOTHING to help blacks get an ID, this is just another way of Dems keeping blacks down on the plantation or in the ghetto.

    Typical of Dems: truly the only, racist, sexist, and bigoted political party in US history.

    [CAH: Classic GOP transference. Faced with evidence of their sins, they convince themselves that the guilt lies with everyone else, not themselves. I suppose we could just wait for such mental illness to implode... but somehow Republcians like Julie and Akin manage to stay functional long enough despite this reality-denying defect to do real damage with their votes.]

  61. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --but civil rights organizations and election historians see evidence of a more sinister legacy

    Of course they do: Rent-a-Rev-Jaxson, Call Me AL Sharpton, and the rest of Race INC feed off of paranoia & fear. And the Dems kow tow to it.

  62. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    text me the number of your peyote dealer, "Julie:" 605-484-7288

  63. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Obtaining certificates of birth, marriage and divorce needed to get a proper photo ID can be an obstacle for otherwise eligible and longtime voters…

    And only the really whacked out conspiracy nutjob race baiters can jump from there to "black".


  64. MJL 2012.08.21

    "it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!"-- This guy must have been a complete jerk; right?

    Patrick Henry must have hated America and was a complete idiot. Oh, wait, he is using a metaphorical expression and create pathos in his audience. Biden might not have delivered the line with any eloquence at all, but it was a simple rhetorical tool like Patrick Henry used.

    Akin was not a misstatement. What is most troubling is that the guy believes that a woman that is raped will have a biological response that will prevent her pregnancy! REALLY? REALLY?!?

    Rape is rape. There is no reason to parse the ugly, ugly word. Anyone that would argue otherwise is a person looking "to keep women in their place." Paul Ryan should be ashamed for co-sponsoring a bill that would do this.

    [CAH: Right on, MJL! Thank you for seeing through the smoke to focus on the topic!]

  65. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Had Biden been speaking about actual chains and said “From the doctors and metallurgists I’ve spoken to I understand that when a man is legitimately chained, his body has systems in place to shut that whole thing down. They secrete acid from their skin dissolving the shackles. So being legitimately chained rarely results in actual shackling. And by the way, I’m on the Science and Technology committee.”

    Agreed. When Bozo Biden said this,

    "I've had a great relationship. In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking," Biden said. (july, 2008)

    he should have been laughed out of every political gathering. Instead , the Dems nominated him as VP.

  66. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Rape is rape. There is no reason to parse the ugly, ugly word.


    Clinton should have resigned, and then been prosecuted criminally as a serial rapist.

    Is that what you meant?

    [CAH: Only in your mind, julie, could that comment have any relevance. President Obama is flat right on this point, and Akin is flat wrong. Just admit it. Wouldn't that be easier than coming up with more red herrings?]

  67. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    when did the chemical toilet become a battleground state? why is a professional targeting the leading Dem blog in the state especially when the SOS is under investigation?

  68. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    control the federal bench, Dems.

  69. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --Biden might not have delivered the line with any eloquence at all, but it was a simple rhetorical tool like Patrick Henry used.

    Biden would know what a "rhetorical tool" is, let alone spell it or use it.

    The guy has no tools in his racist toolbox.

    Seriously, I think that his hair transplants came at the expense of about 30 of his 80 IQ points.

    Sorry, but your comparison of Bozo Biden to Patrick Henry has got to be the STUPIDEST POST OF THE WEEK.

    [CAH: Again, Julie is transferring. MJL's comparison was a simple effort to point out your absurd misunderstanding of language.]

  70. Taunia 2012.08.21

    Akin didn't apologize. He doubled down today.

    "...but in Tuesday’s interview with Loesch, Akin suggested he had only been misunderstood."

    Akin had until 5:00 today to remove himself in the easiest possible way from the ballot. The Missouri Secretary of State's Office closed 33 minutes again. We're stuck with the *(^%$# and there will be ate-up people voting for him.

  71. Taunia 2012.08.21

    again = ago

  72. Julie Gross (NE) 2012.08.21

    --but somehow Republcians like Julie

    Either back up this claim or retract it.

    I will not allow you to make false statements about me.

    You've been called out--now, either man up, or remain exposed as a liar.

    Your call...

    [CAH: If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck trying to make my manhood the crux of the debate, it's probably a Republican ducking the issue.

  73. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    julie are a cracker? Bawk, bawk.

  74. larry kurtz 2012.08.21

    new post at war toilet: and....

  75. Jana 2012.08.21

    Ruh Roh Shaggy. Here's another reason that Romney/Ryan want to the Akin story to end.

    Funny thing is, one of the 'experts' on abortion, John Wllke, had this to say about rape and pregnancy in a book and then doubled down on that belief today:

    Willke, president of the Life Issues Institute, wrote a book with a chapter on rape from which Akin could have easily pulled his facts:

    "Her body is upset," Willke writes, referring to the rape victim. "Every woman is aware that stress and emotional factors can alter her menstrual cycle ... Hormone production is controlled by a part of the brain which is easily influenced by emotions. There’s no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, implantation and even nurturing of a pregnancy."

    Here's the bad part for Romney...Willke endorsed Romney in 2007 and Romney embraced that endorsement and said that Willke would be an important surrogate for Governor Romney's pro-life and pro-family agenda.

    Guessing that old official Etch-a-Sketch is getting a good shaking tonight!

  76. Jana 2012.08.21

    Tighter summary with two great line worth remembering.

    "In 2007, Romney Touted Endorsement of Doctor Who Pushed "Legitimate Rape" Junk Science"

    --This lesson in voodoo reproductive biology finds it basis in a long line of witch doctors willing to make things up out of thin air in their quest to control women's bodies.--

    --Hmmm... is there some secret right-wing male secretion that foils clear thinking and honesty?--

  77. Troy Jones 2012.08.21


    Is what this guy says accurate? Not everything is political?

    All I know is one who has irregular cycles and/or problems conceiving are told to control/reduce/eliminate stress. I have also been told (less sure as the former was from doctor and latter was from a non-medically trained woman) that hormone regulation also affects cycles and conception. And finally (of which I am most unsure so I am asking a question), isnt the morning after pill a artificial "overdose" of natural hormones to prevent implantation and thus possibly the same biological effect (with regard to getting pregnant) as what could occur during a severely traumatic event, including a rape.

    My comments are possibly uninformed so I hope they aren't meant with normal castigation.

  78. MJL 2012.08.21

    1996 study in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) reported that “among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year.” This study said the rate of becoming pregnant after sexual assault is considerable, estimating that “the national rape-pregnancy rate is 5.0 percent per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45).”

    "A 2003 study using data from the United States National Violence Against Women survey found that the rate at which women get pregnant after an incident of sexual assault is more than double that of a single act of consensual sex. In this report, published in the journal Human Nature, the per-incident rape-pregnancy rate was 6.42 percent, and as high as 7.98 percent with statistical correction. Of women having consensual sex, the per-incident pregnancy rate was 3.1 percent."

    In response to Akin’s statement that “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that whole thing,” Streicher said, “You let me know if you find the doctor that knows how a uterus knows which sperm to ward off.”
    In its statement, ACOG refuted Akin’s original comment: “To suggest otherwise contradicts basic biological truths.”

    Dr. Streicher is an assistant professor at the Fineburg School of Medicine at Nothwestern University.

    OK, we have heard from the experts and seen actual studies instead of basing it off of guess and gut feelings. Please stop ignoring science.


  79. Jana 2012.08.21

    Troy, I'll let MJL and Larry's comments stand.

    There is some 14th century medieval theories that might match up though...and then one from the 18th century, just not sure that is relevant today.

    You bring up the morning after pill. OF course if the Ryan/Romney ticket wins they are all for a rape victim taking the morning after pill to be tried for murder...along with her doctor.

  80. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.21

    Stunning stats, MJL. Rape is bad enough. The higher risk of unwanted pregnancy enhances the fear. The uncertainty Jana mentions, about whether a Republican legislator would even let a woman relieve herself of that burden the morning after a rape, compounds the fear. Women have enough to worry about. President Obama understands that.

  81. Jana 2012.08.21

    Dr. John Willke who has put forward the theory of legitimate or forceful rape not leading to pregnancy is a general practitioner who has studied obstetrics. Couldn't find any peer reviews of his theory.

  82. Jana 2012.08.21

    Sean Hannity said that Akin's theory was not medically correct on his show last night...for what that's worth.

  83. Jana 2012.08.21

    Point well taken Cory.

  84. Troy Jones 2012.08.21

    Asking an honest question or looking for unbiased information not driven by ideology is impossible here. Nor is there any intellectual curiosity to either contemplate another's view or look outside your ideology.

  85. mike 2012.08.21

    When was the last time the South Dakota War College had any real conversation on that blog? This post is nearing 100 comments in 1 day and the SDWC is stuck on nothing for comments these days. (Maybe they don't allow conversation through the filters? It sure isn't like Powers blogged originally - maybe Stan took the edge off of his writing?)

    Madville Times is the #1 political blog in SD!

    Maybe it's that the SDWC is one Noem press release after another and no one care?

  86. Justin 2012.08.21

    "Asking an honest question or looking for unbiased information not driven by ideology is impossible here. Nor is there any intellectual curiosity to either contemplate another’s view or look outside your ideology."

    That's not true at all. If Willke has evidence to support his claim he can show it. The science doesn't support his claim.

    As such, the GOP national plank for no exception for rape is going to be disastrous for their performance among females. If your national leaders cared a bit about science and women they would change their stance. We know that as well as anybody after the first abortion referendum offered up in SD had no exception for rape. Standing by your principles despite science is repulsive to female voters.

    Formulate null hypothesis. Test hypothesis. Either reject or don't reject null hypothesis. Scientific method doesn't play politics. That's why when you read think tank studies they don't use scientific method and they aren't worth the paper they are written on. When you form your conclusions (opinions) before or without testing, then your statement on opinions may be true.

    The hypothesis that raped women are not likely to be impregnated is false. The experiments are repeatable.

  87. Justin 2012.08.21

    However, if you are talking about the debate over when human life begins, your statement is more applicable.

    I don't think there is an experiment you could formulate on that without the definition of "human life" in physiological terms determining the outcome.

    If SD Right to Life can change it's view on rape and incest (although the second referendum lost by an even bigger margin), it is insane that the national GOP platform is more conservative and anti-science than our little podunk conservative bastion (that still, by the way, believes in a woman's right to choose).

  88. Dougal 2012.08.21

    The ghouls who stand by Rapist Rights are prepared to fight for rapists and Rep. Todd Akin. Thank God they amount to a tiny percentage of America's electorate. And thank you God, we really can deliniate the difference between rapist/pedofile protectors and people who abhor rapists.

  89. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.21

    Troy, I sympathize. I feel the same way about Julie's comments. She doesn't come here to learn. She comes to wage war. I struggle mightily not to respond in kind. I am a weak and fallible man.

    That said, even if I have an obligation to understand Akin's worldview, I do not have an obligation to extend some warm fuzzy liberal tolerance to a public statement that is factually wrong and that exposes a deeper misogyny in his worldview. Remember, I'm still an absolutist. I'll understand the other guy, but I won't grant him relativist leave to believe and promulgate whatever bunk he wants.

  90. Dougal 2012.08.22

    Here's a positive suggestion: Mandatory reality-based sex education for members of Congress.

  91. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    They still smoke in their own offices while denying equal rights for their constituents: why would Rebumblicans want to learn anything now?

  92. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Troy, to your question about the morning after pill, I understand as you do that the chemistry is basically an extra strong dose of that contained in birth control pills. It begs the question as to whether a person is pregnant when the egg is fertilized or when the fertilized egg implants into the uterus.

  93. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Related to this are the baseline statistics that most fertilized eggs fail to implant and that a significant number of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Bring rape into the discussion and the conversation becomes almost impossibly emotionally charged.

  94. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    is a cloned embryo or an in vitro embryo a person?

  95. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Julie, pay attention. Is a woman pregnant when her egg is fertilized in vitro?

  96. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Pat is catholic, Bill: he follows an ideology started by a mentally ill saint on opium.

  97. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Do you have sex, Julie? Do you use contraceptives?

  98. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Larry and Julie, no offense, but I'm not really interested in having this conversation with either of you just now. I'm more interested in fielding Troy's question and having a rational, objective examination of the bioethical issues here. Is it possible for either of you to put your impulses to start pissing matches on hold for a few minutes?

  99. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    who set the body mass index requirements for the Brookings Young Republicans, Pat?

  100. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    did your own children get under the bar?

  101. Jim 2012.08.22

    Sibs, I think you found your perfect match in Ms. Gross. Think of the incredible home-schooling you two could do.

  102. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    There's your answer, Troy. as you said, the conversation you want to have is impossible here. We can do it backchannel.

  103. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Okay, so Julie, don't beat around the bush, answer the question. Do you have first hand experience on this issue?

  104. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "CAH: Excellent, Erika. Huge difference on what Biden and Akin said."

    Cory, you have yet to answer the question regarding Clinton's allege rape, was it legitimate? No other New Age sex worshipper has yet to address that.

  105. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Interesting. You want to have a discussion about people's most intimate issues, even about dictating by fiat how they should behave in that regard, and yet refuse to discuss your own sexuality. Pretty hypocritical Julie.

  106. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Notice that Julie cedes the argument. perhaps inadvertently, but she cedes it nonetheless less. Matters of sexuality are none of anyone else's business. Thank you Julie. Check mate.

  107. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Mormon heaven is polygamous, Sibby: will Paul Ryan as a member of the Church of the Great Harlot quiz Willard about it at the convention?

  108. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "Matters of sexuality are none of anyone else’s business."

    So you ready to ban sex so-called education in the New Age Theocrat's public schools? And was the Clinton rape allegations legitimate?

  109. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Does a cloned embryo or an embryo conceived in vitro have the same human rights as an embryo conceived through traditional vaginal penetration, Steve?

  110. Jana 2012.08.22

    I think there may be hope for Julie...she believes that her privacy should be respected.

    Now where have I heard that respecting women's privacy talk before...?

  111. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "Now where have I heard that respecting women’s privacy talk before…?

    Bill Clinton, John Edwards....

  112. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Ted Klaudt, Roger Hunt, Bill Napoli....

  113. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Josef Mengele, Bill Janklow....

  114. Bill Dithmer 2012.08.22

    No offense, Billy, but I’ve suggested to you once to take a break from this discussion.

    You’ve contributed nothing to it and now you’re trying to invade my privacy.

    Knock it off.

    Bill Dithmer Says:

    February 24th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
    To tell the truth I had no intention of getting involved in this debate. As a man I have no dog in the fight, I don’t have a uterus, and I wont ever be put into a position of having to face the possibility of needing an abortion. But after some long thought I have decided that to not post would be the same as saying that I agree with the legislation in HB1217.

    Now I wont pretend that I know what goes through a woman’s mind when she decides that she needs an abortion. As a man I can only guess but wont ever actually know. But I do have a wife and a daughter and I do know how they feel about the subject. They have told me that it is almost impossible to describe how they feel in their own words let alone put those words into print so that everyone else can understand. Having said that I’m still going to try to tell you how I think they feel about what is happening in the legislature.

    Now lets talk about how a woman must feel.

    First lets get something out of the way. It doesn’t matter if you want to call it a piece of tissue, or even a baby, it makes no difference. Possession is nine tenths of the law and in the case of pregnancy it is now and has always been one hundred percent. One way or another the woman is the one that will have to deal with whatever she decides to do, no one else, not Roger Hunt, and not any of the co signers of the bill. In fact after they pass the bill they will in all probability just set back and do nothing to help in any way if a baby is actually born.

    I have learned a new term, for me anyway, it is “mind rape”. That is how a woman feels when someone tells her what she has to do with her own body. Roger Hunt is guilty of “mind rape”. He is just as guilty as a man that has been caught in a woman’s bedroom with his pants off and the woman beat up and tied to the bed with his dna all over the place. Several terms come to mind here.

    First there is Forced Sexual Slavery. Forced Sexual Slavery is the organized coercion of unwilling people into different sexual practices. It is most common in areas such as Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East and now South Dakota.

    Next there is
    A condition of compulsory service performed by one person, against his will, for the benefit of another person due to force, threats, intimidation or other similar means of coercion and compulsion directed against him.
    Title 18, U.S.C., Sec. 1584, makes it a Federal crime or offense for anyone to willfully hold another person in involuntary servitude. It must be shown that a person held to involuntary servitude was so held for a ‘term.’ It is not necessary, however, that any specific period of time be proved so long as the ‘term’ of the involuntary service was not wholly insubstantial or insignificant.

    Now I ask this. Are we willing to do away with the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution? Its not just about owning slaves , its about people being able to make life changing decisions about their bodies without interference from someone else. Its called the right of self determination.

    Placing roadblocks that a woman has to stop at, and hoops that she has to jump through between her and her doctor is “mind rape” there is no other way to describe it. Roger Hunt is guilty of it, all the cosigners are guilty of conspiracy to commit mind rape as are those that would vote for this bill in the legislature.

    That’s how I think women feel about this. There really isn’t anything a man has to compare with this except being a slave, nothing.

    If you were the one getting to make up the rules knowing full well that those rules would never effect you or your body "most of the people in our South Dakota legislature fit that label" you are fine with the rules you have put in place. On the other hand if you were a young woman already traumatized by the situation you find yourself in those rules might just seem insurmountable at the time.

    This procedure is something that most women want to keep private. Adding more layers and time seems to take most of the privacy away from them at a time they desire it most.

    Here’s an analogy for you. Lets suppose that you had something wrong that caused you to have to go to the doctor. When you walked into his office there was the doctor and three or four good old boys sitting there. While you were being examined these good old boys were making suggestions as to why this happened to you and how you should go about fixing it. Then the next day you were down town and everybody you met knew what had happened in the doctors office. How would that make you feel?

    I’m only trying to look at this from a woman’s point of view. Julie if you put out by what you have determined is an "invasion of privacy" just imagine what it would feel like if you had to go through what our South Dakota legislature has been trying to put women through for the last couple of years. Or are some of the posters correct and you are really Pat? In that case your views would be expected to follow the GOP South Dakota line of thinking.

    One more thought and then I’m through. What do radical Islam and Roger Hunt have in common? They both seem to want to own and or control a woman’s body.

    Invasion of privacy indeed.

    The Blindman

  115. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    So how does the collective minded socialist change philosophy and legitimately argue for individual's privacy to the point where they can kill their own children?

  116. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Dithmer nailed it.

    Is a cloned embryo or an embryo conceived in vitro a child, Steve?

  117. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Control the federal bench, Dems: voting against Kristi Noem's fascist handlers and is one click closer to putting political power back in the hands of the 99%.

  118. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Julie/Pat's religionism has no place in civil society.

  119. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Julie, no one here has made those arguments but you. You are having a conversation with yourself. You and Sibby. Two inmates on a psych ward.

  120. Jana 2012.08.22

    Paul Ryan is trying to distance himself from hi co-sponsor and 93% agreement friend Akin. In an interview with a Pittsburgh CBS affiliate, Ryan agreed with the President that rape-is-rape.

    Then he got his own etch-a-sketch out and avoided his own words in HR 3 talking of 'forcible rape' and then denied that anyone was trying to take anyone's birth control away in a clear denial of his HR 212 personhood bill.

    Along the way, he put his beliefs on exceptions to abortion in a lockbox and pledged support to Romney in defiance of the new GOP national platform. Does that make him a RINO?

    The guy has taken to lying very well.

  121. John Hess 2012.08.22

    How often do we flip our opinions? Since no attack dogs are watching we get away with it.

  122. Troy Jones 2012.08.22


    I didn't assert pregnancy doesn't occur after rape. That is factually false. And, I didn't ask my question with regard to the political implications of Akin's statement or any other debate (abortion etc.).

    I only asked if the trauma of rape might stimulate natural hormonal or other biological responses that could lessen the odds of either fertilization or implantation. And, I'm not asking if they (natural biological response) occur with sufficient efficacy to statistically impact the occurance of pregnancy from a rape.

    Just a simple question about biology looking for an answer that isn't couched in political overtones or connotation. My motive is not political but a personal curiousity as I try to understand a friend who is not conceiving with no biological reason evident.

  123. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "You are having a conversation with yourself."

    That is because you and the rest of the women-must-hate-Republcian-men propagandists can't deal with the truth Julie and I have brought to this fabricated controversy. Again. was the Clinton rape allegations legitimate?

  124. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    Jana, yes we already know that the GOP is converting Ryan into RINO if he isn't one already. Otherwise he would ask the question, was the Clinton rape allegations legitimate.

  125. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Every rape allegation is legitimate, Steve: the rule of law supersedes religionism in this republic.

  126. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    So what our you New Age Theocrats waiting for, the offical talking points on the Bill Clinton rape allegation legitimacy before you address the issue?

  127. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    So Larry, are you saying Clinton did it? I haven't heard of any conviction yet.

  128. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    I'm saying there is a body of law surrounding your allegations: if there is merit to the case someone would prosecute it.

  129. Troy Jones 2012.08.22

    Thanks Bill. Those are interesting but not applicable as in the personal case I'm concerned about, there are no biological explanations. And, while the medical people are tweaking hormones, they are telling them it is likely non-biological (emotional/stress) which is only adding stress. And, being the do-gooder I am, I was thinking an answer to my question might steer me to information I could then give them and maybe knowledge would reduce stress.

  130. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Steve, now answer my question: does a cloned embryo or an embryo conceived in vitro have the same human rights as an embryo conceived through traditional vaginal penetration?

  131. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "if there is merit to the case someone would prosecute it"

    And if there is no prosecution is there a legitimate rape, or could it be illegitimate?

  132. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "Steve, now answer my question: does a cloned embryo or an embryo conceived in vitro have the same human rights as an embryo conceived through traditional vaginal penetration?"


    Larry, when does science go to far and think they can play God?

  133. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Sibby, I think we deal with your and Julie's hallucinations as best we can by humoring you and even occasionally reading the things you write.

  134. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    It never hurts to encourage people to relax, Troy. ;^)
    Does your friend know how to meditate?

  135. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Humanity all too often shows its propensity for inhumanity, Steve: the American experiment notwithstanding.

  136. Erika 2012.08.22

    The question of whether an embryo conceived in vitro would be considered a person does raise some interesting issues. After reading that Mitt Romney has grandchildren who were created this way, it makes me wonder if we aren't being so distracted over what constitutes legitimate rape that we fail to see what the RNC's Human Life and Personhood Amendments would allow.

    Does "personhood" imply that a fertilized egg, regardless of how it is conceived, should not be destroyed and does it mean that a fertilized egg has the right to become a breathing sentient person? I would imagine that in vitro fertilization and embryo storage is expensive. If I have half a dozen frozen embryos in storage and they are declared people, would the cost of storing them be considered "child care" for tax purposes and could I declare them as dependents in perpetuity? The embryos don't get destroyed, I get a tax break, everybody wins!

    If we ban all abortions in all instances, basically saying that a woman must carry any fertilized egg within her womb to term, and if all fertilized embryos have the right to become people could we force a woman to carry someone else's fertilized eggs to term whether or not she is impregnated against her will? We have already established that the government can force a doctor to lie to his or her patient, and the government can force a doctor to insert medically unnecessary equipment into a woman's vagina. Is it really so hard to imagine this scenario?

    I'm beginning to reluctantly side with those who think the Republican party needs to go all the way with this fight, and try to ban all abortions in all instances - no gray area. Only then will we have the discussion of whether a viable human being has the unconditional right to bodily integrity. The only comparison I can make for men would be the selective service, signing a document saying that should your country need your body to carry a gun and take a bullet you will do so. When I hear legislators like Brian Liss frantically defend his anti-abortion stance saying we have to grow our population to face China's armies, I wonder if the time will come when young women will have to sign up to have their bodies used for the good of the country as well.

    Or maybe private prisons are looking for a new revenue stream, and criminalizing abortion would fill empty prisons with a lot of young, able bodied women who could work in the prison factories.

  137. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    Fleming, since you won't deal with the truth, then you have become illegitimate. Of course, I already knew that.

    So what about the rest of you, can you deal with the reality of the Clinton rape allegations. Was it legitimate?

    Obviously this fabricated controversy has only caused more hatred in America. Very sad.

  138. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Which "truth" Sibby? Most of what you post here are half-baked opinions, hallucinations, and stories about talking snakes.

  139. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Steve: how much of the RNC's platform do you support and how do you reconcile your position with government's intrusion into private decisions?

  140. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Erika: excellent comment, btw.

  141. Jana 2012.08.22

    Troy...sorry to hear your google machine is broken.

    All snarkiness aside, here is some research that you can look at for answers that will satisfy your curiosity. You may have to access the full reports from a medical school library, but at least its a start.

    There was an experiment conducted back in the 40's and I won't speak to its validity or sourcing for fear that Godwin's law would be applied. The experiment involved submitting women to extreme stress and then testing their ovulation patterns. I'm not sure if the peer reviewed abstract is available for that research.

    This article from the St. Louis Post and Dispatch gives more detail on the experiment and also has another source for Akin's beliefs that you may find interesting as it is a little closer to home.

  142. Steve Sibson 2012.08.22

    "Which “truth” Sibby?"

    That there were allegations that Bill Clinton committed rape. Was it a legitimate rape?

  143. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    if it indeed occurred it was morally, ethically, spiritually, physically, positively, absolutely, undeniably and reliably legitimate, stevie.

  144. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    the debate was fun: were you there, sibby? who won?

  145. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Kurtz translation: Your question is meaningless, Steve. That is the truth.

  146. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Here is an example with a word substitutions so you can perhaps see how stupid you are being, Sibson:

    "There are allegations that Bob ate a peach. Was it a legitimate peach?"

    (There is not a shred of logic or truth in any of that, Steve. It's pure, unadulterated nonsense.)

  147. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    Kristi just did that to Varilek, Pat: you follow well.

  148. larry kurtz 2012.08.22

    The DNC invited President Clinton: yer a liar, Pat.

  149. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    Two completely different ideas, as per my note above, Julie. You might want to work on your vocabulary and reading comprehension skills.

    I might point out for you as I did for Steve that your question itself is absurd.

    To wit:

    "Did you not say that when and how human-ness attaches to human cells is NOT knowable?"

    Again, using word substitution let me illustrate:

    "Did you not say that when and how peach-ness attaches to peach cells is NOT knowable?"

    You see?


    A ridiculous, meaningless question.

  150. Troy Jones 2012.08.22


    I think you raise an issue that should be discussed calmly and respectfully assuming the other side has a point of view to respected. Unfortunately, too quickly the sides lock-in, cast aspersions (baby killer vs. war on women) Personhood is a legitimate human rights discussion not to be taken likely if we are a nation that values human rights.

  151. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    A peach is a peach and a human is a human.

    There is no "peachness" that attaches to a peach cell to make it a peach. All peach cells contain peach DNA by definition.

    Same with Humans. No difference.

    The questions for you, Julie are: Is a cell from the peach skin a peach? Is the peach pit a peach? Or just the meat of it? The tree it came from? Or just the fruit? Or all of it? Or is a peach just a peach because you think it is? What makes peaches peaches?

    My assertion is, that you don't know, and neither do I.

    The difference between us is, I think that's just peachy... and you don't.

  152. Bill Fleming 2012.08.22

    (This is what happens when people who believe in talking snakes try to do science.)

  153. Rebecca 2012.08.22

    Obama's words are heartening. These comments are disheartening.

  154. MJL 2012.08.22

    Troy: I think you raise an issue that should be discussed calmly and respectfully assuming the other side has a point of view to respected. Unfortunately, too quickly the sides lock-in, cast aspersions (baby killer vs. war on women) Personhood is a legitimate human rights discussion not to be taken likely if we are a nation that values human rights.

    You have hit the nail right one the head with your clarifying statement. For me this has always been an issue that with which I have personally struggled. Is the need to protect "life" at viability or before? If we have to say that all life is sacred and therefore must be protected for the sake of life, then should we never take a person off of life support systems even if that is their preference? We can maintain their ability to breathe and heart to function indefinitely. I think another aspect then is how does society balance others rights or rights in regards to protecting a mother's life (life versus life) with the right of life once it is defined? This can become personal and is so complex that too many people prefer to base all reactions on emotions or gut feelings and not try to look toward reasoning. That, I think, has been my biggest problem with Akin's comments. Not only did he try to create a distinction between different types of rape, but he seemed to be basing his decision on heresy and feeling instead of looking at the actual science.

    Your question about the morning after pill and stress levels was a legit question, because, like you said you were not sure about the conclusion. My problem is that since Akin and others are trying to set policy, they claim their gut feelings and faulty logic are the gospel truth.

  155. Anne 2012.08.22

    "discussed calmly and respectfully assuming the other side has a point of view to [be?] respected."

    Here is a sample of Mr. Jone's calm and respectful discussion:

    "Just to be clear. I wouldn’t want your feeble mind pretending to be a professor for my children or anyone else’s. Nor would I want you to be my neighbor. The “observations” you make in the aforementioned article are dishonest and the calculation is palpable. I actually would fear to leave my house unlocked for 10 minutes if you were in my neighborhood."

    Lest anyone assume there is rational discussion on these threads.

  156. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.22

    Let me join Larry and Troy in complimenting Erika's second comment. Two for two, friend!

    Personhood at fertilization poses a significant problem for the in vitro clinics storing all those frozen embryos. They have freezers full of persons: who's responsible for allowing them to enjoy their personhood?

    Indeed, I am locked in on my response: we cannot require any woman to submit herself to serving another embryo/person.

    Erika talks about how the GOP may need to go whole hog on the abortion issue. Would they ever do that? Permit me to suggest that no one really believes the personhood/murder rhetoric. If I really believe an embryo/fetus is a person, and if I believe a woman having an abortion thus murders a person, am I not logically bound to charge the woman with murder and try to put her in prison for life, or even give her the death penalty for committing such a heinous crime?

  157. Troy Jones 2012.08.22

    Cory, who is given the longest prison sentence? Drug dealer or user?

    I wouldnt charge the mother but I would have a problem having free prison doctors or have free public health clinics outside a prison.

    Anne, read the article. My response was to show Ugly and rotten Newquists was being as he slandered an entire profession. If I recall he called people in business parasites. By the way, I have heard he is in person a snide, petty, unhappy insecure man. And, I would not want him to be my neighbor.

  158. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.22

    Troy, rape is rape, murder is murder... and a hit is a hit. What sentence do I face if I pursue SD blogosphere hegemony by hiring Stace Nelson to bump off Pat Powers? Don't Stace and I fry together? Do I get a lighter sentence if Stace has really enticing ads or offers the first hit for free?

    [Disclaimer: the above scenario is purely hypothetical. I would not hire a hit man to take out blog competitors, because (1) murder is wrong, (2) a healthy blogosphere requires many dynamic, interacting, competing, and disagreeing nodes, (3) I don't want to go to prison, (4) Pat Powers isn't worth it, and (5) if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.]

  159. Anne 2012.08.22

    I read the article, and it was about the kind of businesses and business practices that triggered the great recession. It was not about honest, well-intentioned businesses. Furthermore, it cited sources and examples. from the major media.

    Cory, I regret and apologize for provoking this compounding of the inexcusable with what someone claims to have heard.

    This blog is one of the more magnanimous and tolerant in the blogosphere, but I wish, Cory, you would delete these excursions into mindless malevolence and scurrilous libel. They have nothing to do with discussion.

  160. Justin 2012.08.22

    Interesting question about drug dealers vs users. In the case of "spice" (synthetic not yet scheduled drugs) dealers in SD, plenty of users have been convicted but as of yet no dealers have been charged that I know of. The federal government is using forfeiture and seizure laws to try to put them out of business, and it has been effective in Sioux Falls at least.

    That is some nasty stuff, I admire the intent. The problem is we wouldn't even have that industry if we didn't treat the War on Marijuana as a cherished national industry that we should spend billions on rather than make money from.

  161. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.22

    Anne, I do not view you as deeply guilty, but I appreciate your sensitivity to the consequences of your words, as well as the importance of sticking to comments that educate, not just wage war. I encourage all readers to do the same... but as I've said previoulsy, I do not guarantee that, waged war upon, I will not wage war back.

    Justin, I'm thinking the user-dealer question isn't a perfect analogy, at least not by itself. In the context of a murder discussion, we have to ask what sort of sentences we mete out when a drug abuser does harm to others. How about a DUI example: John Doe drives drunk and kills someone. John Doe goes to prison. Does the bartender who served John Doe go as well?

  162. Justin 2012.08.22

    No, but the server or his/her employer can be found liable in civil court.

    Imagine tort cases on behalf of aborted zygotes or embryos. (I really hope I'm not giving people ideas on that!)

    Analogies help us think about things, but we are often too comfortable in the solutions we gather from them is the lesson I have learned.

  163. larry kurtz 2012.08.24

    Many states grant parental rights to rapists that father.

    This story appeared in the Missoulian.

    Had a pregnancy resulted from the event the 14-year old doesn’t even legally possess the right to make any decisions about the outcome at all.

    How is carrying such a pregnancy to term not slavery?

  164. caheidelberger Post author | 2012.08.24

    ["Clive", check your e-mail.]

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