Some days I get tired of the hogwash.
An individual masquerading as "Julie Gross (NE)" accuses me on Dakota War College of using fake online handles to create the false impression that other people agree with me (a deceitful practice known as sockpuppetry). This individual then accuses 2012 House candidate Matt Varilek of being a "drunk." Similar false, malicious, and distracting personal attacks have appeared around the South Dakota blogopshere under that pseudonymous handle since last summer.
Enough. According to the best evidence available, "Julie Gross (NE)" appears to be Andrew Shiers, former instructor at Dakota State University, now a lecturer in math at the University of Central Oklahoma. (Mr. Kurtz profiles Mr. Shiers here.) Since last summer, a series of comments have come to my blog and other websites under the names of "Julie Gross," "Robert Johnson," "Al Johnson," and "Bob J" (the latter handle masquerading under the e-mail address of current DSU professor Robert Jackson). The majority of comments from these handles that I have been able to analyze have come from IP addresses at the University of Central Oklahoma (and I welcome webmasters to review their stats and see how many of those personal attacks and politically charged comments come from the public university servers during work hours).
I'm pretty sure Matt Varilek is no alcoholic. I have no idea what or how much Mr. Shiers drinks and don't much care. And Larry and I could be wrong about who specifically at the University of Central Oklahoma has been so obsessively insulting and attacking me, Matt Varilek, and others in the South Dakota blogosphere since last summer.
But I will not have a serial sock-puppeteer accuse me of lying about my identity online. I am who I am, and I stand by every word I say. The person behind "Julie Gross (NE)" lacks a similar commitment. Mr. Shiers, or whoever you are, buzz off.
Basic conservative dishonesty....lies and deceit....if we only knew how deep it went.
When my Corpus measured no more than four feet from scalp dandruff to toe fungus, my mom told me never to write anything that you wouldn't want the whole wide world to see -- and attribute to me.
So I adhere to that policy. Every statement I make on any blog will always have my name on it, unless I forget to enter the data and end up with an "anonymous" tag.
Funny thing though. My name pretty much identifies me uniquely in this world, but not quite. Try googling on the "Stan Gibilisco" in the "this exact word or phrase" box along with the extra sequence "SurReview" in the "all of these words" box.
That one ain't me!
Shucks. I wish I had thought of getting high on sea anemone venom. Better than the Fizz, I'll bet. Well anyway, if anyone ever steals my name in a way that can hurt me, there's a shady lawyer in Louisiana that can team up with me and doubtless transform some dirty rat's life into hades on earth.
This Internet sure is a social cesspool, innit?
Tee, hee.
When I was at Black Hills State, there was 1 professor who was a conservative nut job, who blogged under a fake name. (I knew who she really was). But yeah it happens.
I am a "mostly" conservative, have been since I got my first real job and wondered where so much of my paycheck went, so, basically I am at odds with some of what you write (although I do like HOW you write)... with that being said, I have never doubted your integrity (or identity) whenever I have read your blogs.
Another Stan? Incredible! Of course, Cory Heidelberger practices medicine in Las Vegas. (I have not found a doppelnymer with a middle Allen yet!)
John H, I welcome your disagreement and the opportunity to overcome it with truth and integrity (or be proven wrong in the process!).
Sockpuppetry is almost as fun a word as Snollygosterism. Mr. H, you are a most entertaining human dictionary!
He's one ugly lady.
My friend kurtz is no lady.
Not too long ago, the libel laws would have covered most of what you cite here. When the National Enquirer printed that Carol Burnett was an alcoholic, she sued and won, even though she is a public figure. If something false and defamatory was said about you back then, all you had to do was prove it was false, and damages were presumed. Journalists lived under this law and triple checked every fact stated about a person because the news media was a lucrative target for libel suits.
The case law changed all this, and I am not sure why and how. But now if a person defames you, you have to show that it caused measurable damages in the practice of your profession. And another matter is that the cost of suits is exorbitant, and most bloggers and blog commenters do not have enough money to cover the suits, so the cost falls back on the defamed who is doing the suing.
A few years back, a well known South Dakota blog was saved because some prospective plaintiffs found that its author did not have anything to sue for. Nevertheless, the blogger permanently vaporized all the offending material that existed on his site at that time.
By allowing the Internet to be such a rich source of defamation and scurrility, it has lost most of the value that it promised for communication and productive discourse. Most universities now do not accept Internet sources in research papers unless they have passed a rigorous test for verification of accuracy and authenticity.
When South Dakota closed all its little rest areas with the concrete slab comfort stations, the vandals lost a medium for their grafitti but soon found the Internet. And so it goes.
Go get em, Cory! Trolls are the biggest bullies around. So glad you beat this fool at his game.
So this means Julie isn't a real person?
Perhaps this song is appropriate... at this time.....???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7PLcHnMNKE
Wow, Bobby Sherman! Now that's a musical reach.
Jim, Julie is a real sock puppet. Blech!
And alas, David: the shifting case law and burden of proof leaves us with no recourse to this online scurrility but our own hollabacks. Sigh.
So Julie Gross (NE) is angry at the world because the South Dakota Board of Regents wouldn't let him take his gun to school ?
He's certainly mad about something, and not dealing with it terribly effectively.
As one who has too analyzed some trolls or sockpuppents on Dakota War College, the problem is not a universal conservative or liberal phenomenon. But, at least at DWC, there is one similarity- liberal and conservative sockpuppets both attack Republicans.
At DWC, there are five IP addresses (three distinct individuals as two have two IP addresses) which claim to be "true conservatives" that repeatedly attack what they call "RINO's" with multiple posts often on the same thread trying to give the impression their views are held by many. Based on observation, I suspect these particular people use this deception less here at Madville.
There are also two liberals who sometimes pose as either "true conservatives" and express offensive "conservative" positions to make the GOP look extreme or as "moderate Republicans" and criticize Republicans as extremists. Based on style and line of thought through observation, I suspect this is the most common abuse here at Madville.
Personally, I find it offensive. In both cases, the post begins under the premise to deceive to serve a purpose. Of course, I too use my name (except like Stan, I sometimes forget to put it in. But if I catch it, I correct it). So much of what is posted is in the form of a personal character attack and not a proponent/critique of ideas.
In the end, neither deception serves the public discourse of ideas or the pursuit of policy solutions.
Sidenote: I have no problem if people desire anonymity so long as they ALWAYS use a specific psuedonym so we can always assess the veracity/consistency of the person and their ideas.
Troy, I share your distaste for such deception. As far as I can tell, the pseudonyms you see here are consistent. When I detect sockpuppetry, I hit Delete. One person, one vote; one person, one voice.
I don't doubt you. And, maybe with some time I could find my examples and access to your IP search function. But, not worth the time.
I just know that I have noticed more than once a post by a liberal here and a "conservative" @ DWC that are nearly identical in tone, wording, and close in time. Not using the same moniker.
In the end, there are five pervasive sockpuppets that distort commentary and perceptions. At their core, they are liars.
While "Julie Gross" has a "thing" for you, at least this person uses, as far as I can assess at DWC, a single moniker. Certainly better than the five scumbags who use multiple moniker's with intent to deceive.
I made a statement about you liberals enjoying the spending of my money and you'd have thought I brought on the little pee pee attack. Btw, I enjoy spending your dollars! I guess only the libs can personally attack at Maddville.
"Basic conservative dishonesty....lies and deceit....if we only knew how deep it went."
drama-queen much?
Judging most of the viewer's of this site, they could use a Math lesson from Shiers. He was a great teacher. I find your wild goose chase rather funny. As if IP's mean jack. Plus, what sort of credentials do you have to make your investigation accurate?
Cory: you saddened me when Madville began allowing comments from pseudonymous posters.
Have people been playing poor math skills here? Much like "Julie", Shriers apparently is not as funny as he thinks. DB, why not just place a call to your friend and have him clear this all up?
Yeah, me too Larry, and disappointing that so many people just won't post using their full name. Like what could happen? Is somebody gonna steal your birthday???
Cory's decision to allow pseudonymous posting has allowed his readers to benefit from my wisdom, what little there may be. More importantly, it has also changed his blog from a sleepy backwater into the #1 political blog in SD.
When I post at DWC I also post anonymously. No, Troy. I'm not one of your "deceptive, offensive, pervasive sock puppet, scumbag, liars."
Rorsh: Never suspected it. But, I would like it at least if you posted with a consistent moniker.
"Yeah, me too Larry, and disappointing that so many people just won't post using their full name. Like what could happen? Is somebody gonna steal your birthday???"
Just following what everyone else does. I figured you would be more alarmed by Larry's name calling. Not to mention, the support it gets from Cory when he does it.
"Cory: you saddened me when Madville began allowing comments from pseudonymous posters."
Don't worry Larry. You set the bar lower than anyone else on this site with your childish name calling.
Not lower than Julie Gross. I think I get it now: The (NE) stands for non-existent.
The last (and final) time I visited DWC, Julie Gross had nothing but negative things to say about you, Cory. I was wondering if the person posing as this Julie Gross was holding a grudge because the attacks sounded very personal in nature. Ahhhh, any how, I wouldn't waste your time on this person. They are one of those trolls you want to avoid feeding and from what I've read, he or she thrives off the negative attention and harrassment of others. Keep up the good fight, Cory!
Cory and friends - I've seen the light. Thank you for this discussion. You folks are correct, even the snottier ones. It's important to have a dialogue on the issues of our state and times, but it's equally important that real names stand next to real sentiments. Cory has been generous in extending me the privilege of commenting under a pseudonym and he understands why I must not attach my real name to my opinions. Sadly, we live in a state where a former governor or his henchmen would phone the employers of people he disagreed with or who had Democratic Party affiliations or who stood up for human rights and dignity. We've had people on the state payrolls whose jobs are to drill deep and dig up dirt on citizens to gag them or ruin them. Shit, our entire legislature participated in gagging the State Treasurer because he blew the whistle on the banking industry and the malfesance of office which allowed banks to keep millions of other people's money rather than to turn it over to unclaimed property.
Thank you Cory for hosting your blog. It is number 1 in South Dakota for all the right reasons. I'm sorry that I did not attach my name to my comments ... and that some of my comments got out of line. I will continue to read Madville. Best wishes to all.
Forgive me if I believe that, for obviously nefarious purposes, PP and the GOP machine are technically capable of controlling elections
by creating false audiences on blogs that happen to have conflicting agendas.
It's important to remember that the majority of the Madville crew were disastrously wrong about the margins in the races of both Jeff Barth and Matt Varilek.
was wrong. Unless people put names to opinions they're inherently suspicious.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/you-idiot-course-trolls-comments-make-you-believe-science-less
A teacher friend told me if Bill J. read a letter to the editor he didn't like written by an educator, he would call them to remind them they worked for him. So in fact I waiver from an understanding some must use discretion (or at least that's what they think), to being annoyed people don't speak up and say what's on their mind. Instead they gripe privately and let the powers that be do what they want without so much as a question. And what can be irritating on Cory's blog are the smarty pants comments too often made by those that don't use their real name.
You have to be willing to take the heat for your positions. And sometimes it is best to say nothing at all. I will write several paragraphs spewing forth crap only to delete instead of publishing my tirades. Tact is not my best quality.
Granted, you have to pick your battles, but some people never pick a battle. And since I'm on it, how about these stinkin Democratic congressman. They've all had a recent epiphany to support gay marriage now that it's politically acceptable, but they weren't gonna risk their neck till now. Like him or not, but there's a reason people like Chris Christie. We're dying for a little straight talk.
Troy, a quick reminder: as far as I can tell, Andrew Shiers has used at least four different pseudonyms in the blogosphere. Different names, but same hyperbolic, bitter, and baseless personal attacks, with the same apparent goal of diverting discussion from real issues to a seemingly inexplicable personal vendetta.
Mr. Shiers may have fled the frying pan for the fire:
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/02/tea_party_leader_threatens_oklahoma_goper_over_agenda_21/
I use only my initials. I posted here with the same (LK) until Cory recently asked me to change to avoid some confusion. (I have to admit that I enjoyed the confusion or enjoyed correcting people.)
People who know me won't have much trouble figuring out who I am with this pseudonym. I agree with Troy; one should be consistent, although I'm sure I've violated that in the past when I've been in a hurry.
On a blog like this, I'm not sure real names matter. I doubt that I'm going to meet any of the people who regularly comment. I'm not in a position of power where my opinions will carry weight. I do have the worries that some others have expressed, so the pseudonym provides a fig leaf.
As to Larry's point about being wrong on Barth/Varilek or Varilek/Noem, I suspect that error had more to do with wishful thinking than anonymity.
If Cory decides he wants full names and won't accept pseudonyms, I'll decide what to do then.
First sentence should read "I use only my initials when I post on my blog.
It is interesting how no one picks up on your statement of our former state treasure Dougal. Talk about a made for movies book that could be written. I brought up a former SPL commissioner's concern for his personal safety. That has nothing to do with school funding is the only comment.
.
Heck our former state treasurer even had to fund his own legal counsel to try and get back the function that office should hold. .
.
But, I should come back to the importance of the topic at hand. It is obvious that slander is allowed on both the most commonly read politico blogs in SD and even though it may be occasionally pulled, the commenter is allowed to continue for the sake of an occasional comment of high value, and that is pure undiluted BS.
.
Now why should anyone holding a position that can be jeopardized by one of these posters, if Corey or PP as blog masters, know our identity and hold us to a firm standard?
CH: I found no evidence on DWC "Julie Gross" used another pseudonym.
"Julie Gross" has done so on this blog, on South Dakota Magazine (see here and here), and in communication with me.
I am who you thought I am...no anonymity here...do you think Janklow is watching? From where, that is my 2nd question?
At least most of MT's commentators have a name. Over a the DWC, I would say 85% are all "anonymous" commentors. LOL
icymi.
icimw, l?