Press "Enter" to skip to content

HCR 1005: Apply 5th, 14th Amendments to Fetuses, Deny Women’s Choice

Abortion makes its first appearance in the Legislative hopper as Rep. Stace Nelson (R-19/Fulton) files House Concurrent Resolution 1005, which exhorts Congress and the President to bestow Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment rights to fetuses:

A CONCURRENT RESOLUTION, Urging Congress and the President to secure the blessings of life and liberty for our posterity.

WHEREAS, the purpose of the United States Constitution is "to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity;" and

WHEREAS, our children and preborn children are our posterity; and

WHEREAS, our most important blessing is the right to live; and

WHEREAS, the right to life of all innocent persons is God-given and unalienable:

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by the House of Representatives of the Eighty-Ninth Legislature of the State of South Dakota, the Senate concurring therein, that the South Dakota Legislature urges Congress and the President of the United States to immediately provide preborn children their appropriate protections by the fifth and fourteenth amendments to the United States Constitution [2014 HCR 1005].

Rep. Nelson inserts "appropriate" before "protections" to keep me from throwing spitballs at him for defending fetuses from self-incrimination and double jeopardy. But how about a takings clause argument?

Rep. Nelson and his intrusive ilk would exert sovereignty over a woman's body. They would annul her bodily autonomy and oblige her to sacrifice property, liberty, and possibly life to serve a favored entity whom HCR 1005 declares a superior human being. Reps. Nelson, Haggar, Hickey, and friends offer no compensation, no due process, just their smug moral declarations that we love babies while we stigmatize and criminalize their mothers.

Pro-choice South Dakotans will revolt against HCR 1005. Anti-abortion South Dakotans will say pro-choice means pro-abortion.

Here's what being pro-choice means: the only person who gets to decide whether a woman bears a child is the woman. No one else gets to make that decision for her, neither the abusive boyfriend who would hit her to terminate her pregnancy against her will, nor the intrusive legislator who would assign a portion of her flesh Constitutional rights to extend her pregnancy against her will.

No Legislature can assign Constitutional rights to a fetus without taking Constitutional rights away from women. We have to choose. And we must choose not to make a woman's choice for her.

Let's protect women from the unconstitutional predations of Rep. Stace Nelson and other South Dakota Republicans. Reject HCR 1005.


  1. owen reitzel 2014.01.24

    And what about the fetus after it's born?
    The right's answer? Repeal the ACA, cut SNAP and a Governor who won't help 48,000 poor people get health insurance through Medicare.

  2. interested party 2014.01.24

    Resolutions = unicorns.

  3. mike from iowa 2014.01.24

    So Nelson wants the Scotus to appoint an underage fetus Potus,the way they bastardized the 14th amendment to put dumb bass dubya on the throne in 2000? I know they claimed it was a one time only thingy,but you know how precedents work. Then we have wingnuts claiming Dems don't think a woman can make her own decisions about birth control and reproductive rights while taking abortion decisions away from women. Wingnuts claim a moral,religious right to take those same moral,religious rights away from people they disagree with.

  4. Roger Elgersma 2014.01.24

    When I raised hogs on my farm the experts writing in magazines would analyze production. Their method of finding problems would look at death lose in each stage of life. The first stage started at conception. They even looked at conception rate because pigs are born in litters. So if we count animals as individuals from conception, then why not count humans as individuals since conception?

  5. Tasi Livermont 2014.01.24

    And if the wrong male hog got in with the wrong breed of female hogs, many farmers would have those baby fetus hogs aborted to save on costs. So, not a great argument in my opinion.

  6. mike from iowa 2014.01.24

    So do you apportion blame to boars and sows at 50-50 or do humans get 100% of the blame? I'm guessing if they were fancy,high class sows and got the wrong bloodlines we'd have a different conversation than if the sows were considered less desirable mates and the piglets were for slaughter to begin with.

  7. Francie 2014.01.24

    Stop with the 'whole hog' thing, okay?

  8. Jerry 2014.01.24

    In light of all of the nonsense that has to do with pro-choice or pro-life. Here is a suggestion. Both the male and the female are involved at 50/50. So they should both vote on the process and have it settled with an outside arbitrator in the event of a tie vote. If it cannot be settled, then the fetus would be given to the state to raise with no further complications to either of male or the female. Until the time in the future that this could all be made possible, a section of tissue would be saved for cloning. As republicans are so gung ho on large, bloated uncontrolled government, this would fit them to a T. Or we could give the woman, the respect she deserves and allow her to make the decision.

  9. mike from iowa 2014.01.24
    No hogs,huh? This is what happens when religious conservatives take over state gubmints and try to force christian beliefs on citizens. This clinically brain dead woman has been kept on life support so the abnormal and possibly brain damaged fetus can be forced to reach viability stage against the Dad's and deceased Mother's wishes. Texas wingnuts have claimed their draconian anti-abortion bill was to protect the life of the Mother as well as the fetus. What a crock of baloney. Wear it proudly pro-lifers.

  10. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.24

    Yup, the flow chart Wayne linked to is perfect.

    Jerry, I can see a supportive male having a role in the decision, but not 50/50. His role should be advisory only simply because he cannot become pregnant and carry a child. If the guy is an uncaring jackass or rapist he has no place in any decisions.

    An adult woman is, and must remain, personally autonomous regarding having a baby. If she is not, then deadbeat dads must be forcibly vasectomized as a matter of law. That includes rapists and husbands who do not do their part in raising the children. Repeat offenders would be subject to stronger penalties, up to and including castration.

    If the woman suffers physical injury due to a pregnancy she was forced by law to continue with, the father shall receive like injury. Perhaps her uterus is damaged and must be removed. His testicles shall be removed. Etc.

    Government shall pay every cost, down to the last nickel, for forced pregnancies. In addition to all medical costs, this includes transportation, clothing, housing, education, nutrition, child care, insurance, lessons, . . . every single thing that a mother and child might need for the first 26 years of the child's life. These expenses will be paid at 250% of the poverty level, adjusted annually for inflation. The mother and child will not be required to submit any paperwork or satisfy any financial requirements. She must simply have become a mother due to government intrusion.

    So if she is making $230,000 per year, or $2300, the government pays all costs at the same rate.

    All right, all you who want to steal a woman's autonomy, are you ready to *Really* take on your responsibilities?

  11. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.24

    Your comments nail it. If the government wants the responsibility of determining women's healthcare, they should assume the cost, from life to death.

  12. Joan Brown 2014.01.24

    Deb, you and I think an awful lot alike.

  13. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.24

    Good to hear Joan. The USA is full of people who think like us.

    What I propose will truly show, in black and white, that the right's goal is not controlling women.

  14. mike from iowa 2014.01.25

    In Texas,after their latest anti-abortion bill was passed,only six clinics met the ambulatory,surgical center regulations. Five of those six clinics are co-owned by Rick Perry's sister who,coincidentally,was named by her brother to head the A-S Center board. No conflicts of interest here.

  15. Brett 2014.01.25

    I think it's interesting that liberals in South Dakota have a bit of a predicament when it comes to unborn children: they maintain that abortion is a fundamental right of all women but at the same time must deal with the fact that the law implicitly recognizes unborn fetuses as human lives since the South Dakota murder statute applies to unborn children (SDCL 22-16-4).

    These two views are mutually exclusive. How can a person who kills a pregnant woman be charged with two counts of murder but an unborn fetus is not a human life?

  16. mike from iowa 2014.01.25

    Seems pretty simple,wingnuts in South Dakota and other wingnut strongholds have put every obstacle in front of women who want to exercise their right to choice. This is just an attempt to narrow the field where a woman could exercise her rights. Like forcing healthcare clinics to be within thirty miles of a hospital and forcing doctors to attempt to get admitting privileges at said hospital. Neither case is necessary,but wingnuts had the votes to pass this non-sense.

  17. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Please note that the bill was amended on the floor. I do not see anyone on here disagreeing with the WHEREAS of the unamended resolution. I am sure that most would be surprised to find out our duty to these children under SDCL 26.1-2 that was amended into the WHEREAS section.

    The debate at hand is the wording and established facts and legal historic rights held by Americans in the WHEREAS in the resolution that lead to the appropriate moral obligation within the resolution statement.

    I see no comments from our gracious host, or the many learned posters, contesting the assertions within the WHEREAS of this resolution.

  18. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    I challenge anyone to show me how they have worked harder to support the right of a woman to chose whether she conceives a child. I have spent thousands of hours doing my best to rid the streets of predators who violated those rights. I FULLY support a woman's right to chose whether she conceives a child or not; however, after that baby is conceived, it has a separate heart beat, separate DNA, separate brain waves, a separate soul, and is a separate person.

  19. Douglas Wiken 2014.01.25

    "unborn fetuses"...that is an interesting use of language if not logic.

  20. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    @Douglas Wiken not my language and not my logic. My language and my logic are clearly expressed within the resolution:

    A CONCURRENT RESOLUTION, Urging Congress and the President to secure the blessings of life and liberty for our posterity.

    WHEREAS, the purpose of the United States Constitution is "to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity;" and

    WHEREAS, South Dakota Codified Law 26-1-2 states, "A child conceived, but not born, is to be deemed an existing person so far as may be necessary for its interests in the event of its subsequent birth;" and

    WHEREAS, our children and preborn children are our posterity; and

    WHEREAS, our most important blessing is the right to live; and

    WHEREAS, the right to life of all innocent persons is God-given and unalienable:

    NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by the House of Representatives of the Eighty-Ninth Legislature of the State of South Dakota, the Senate concurring therein, that the South Dakota Legislature urges Congress and the President of the United States to immediately provide preborn children their appropriate protections by the fifth and fourteenth amendments to the United States Constitution.

  21. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Stace Nelson has seemed to joint the ranks of FOX news' mouthpiece Mike Hucklebee. As the Republican Party gathered this past week to plot and conspire on how to get women back into their party, Hucklebee offered this tasty little morsel,
    "If the Democrats want to insult the women of America by making them believe they are hopeless without Uncle Sugar coming in and providing them with their prescription each month for birth control because they cannot control their libido or their reproductive system without the help of the government, so be it.

    If Stace Nelson truly wants to "Help" women, he would quit his attempts to legislate their reproduction system and honor their choices. Now, that would be helping women.

  22. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.25

    I used to respect Huckabee when he was governor of Arkansas (I think?) He was faithful to his Christianity even at his political peril. He said that, according to his understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is immoral to use law-making power to make life more difficult for the poor. I believe he specifically singled out tax policies.

    Then he ran for president, followed by working Fox News. Now he lies, distorts and twists words.

    The Love of Money (and the generally attendant power) Truly is the Source of Evil. It doesn't matter if it's in the bible or Black Elk or the Buddha said it. It's proven true time and again, consistently through human history.

    Politicians seem to be most easily infected. There are a few exceptions: George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Paul Wellstone, Nelson Mandela, and others I can't think of right now. It's a very sad thing to observe the corruption of a human being.

  23. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Roger Cornelius Proud to be on the opposite side of such an issue that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and others felt comfortable with.

    A baby is not part of a woman's reproductive system. As indicated, biggest supporter and defender of a woman's right of conceive or not.

    Happy to debate the Resolution with you, feel free to start with the parts of the WHEREAS that you feel are not factually correct or not held as fact here in the USA.

  24. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Stace, first of all I'll ask you this? Which side do you think Hitler, Stalin, Mo and others would be on with respect to SB67 that gives Christians the right to actively deny services to same-sex couples.

    Now, Mr. Nelson what is the true intent and purpose of HCR1005? Precisely what purpose does it serve?

  25. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Mr. Nelson,

    It has been suggested by some on this blog that if the government, state or federal, forces a mother to carry a fetus to birth, that they, the state, should incur all financial liability for that child until the age of 21.

    I'm not just talking pampers and baby food here, I'm talking full medical, clothing, housing, education, toys, vacations, etc. Everything a child needs while growing up, including the parents or caretakers. Are you prepared to do that?

  26. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Roger, in that those three actively targeted Christians, not sure if that helps your off topic argument. I will change my position on that issue if you can show me where in the US Constitution I am wrong. Until then, I am obligated to protect individual Constitutional rights to include their 1st Amendment ones.

    Mr. Cornelius, the Resolution is self-explanatory. Precisely what part of the WHEREAS, that require the articulated resolve, do you disagree with?

  27. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.25

    Rep. Nelson, are you willing to attach my suggested amendments *requiring* the state to pay all costs of state-forced child bearing?

    Also, have you been actively opposed to laws that allow pharmacists to refuse to provide contraceptive prescriptions and devices?

    Are you actively opposing religious exceptions to the ACA contraceptive mandate?

    Will you submit a bill, and strive energetically for its passage , that includes strong penalties for deadbeat dads who do not support their children in ways that the mother of state forced -child bearing requests?

    You have stated that you are, "As indicated, biggest supporter and defender of a woman's right of conceive or not." Support of these issues will prove your bona fides. After all, talk is easy.

    Thank you for responding to our comments here. I wish more political types would follow your example.

  28. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Mr. Cornelius, I am willing to debate the Resolution, which is the topic. I regret that I do not have time to debate every unrelated off topic distraction. So, if you do have something immediately germane to the specifics of the Resolution, please say so. otherwise I have other pressing matters I need to attend to.

  29. rollin potter 2014.01.25

    DEB, 2014-01-24 18:13
    You are right on the mark!!!! I sent a message to my district 26 senator a year or so ago to put in a law to vasectomize,castrate or lock up these stallions impregnating these young women and not supporting there offspring but he didn't have the guts to do it!!! his only answere was faith and forgiveness will take care of it !!!!!!Neither do any of those other freaks in pierre have the guts to go after them!!!!!

  30. interested party 2014.01.25

    Rep. Nelson: we agree on little but we do share love for the women that run this planet. Thank you for taking the time to join us here at Madville.

  31. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Ms. Geelsdottir,
    No, I am not. No one is forcing anyone to conceive a child.


    Yes, I am actively opposed to Obamacare for numerous reasons to include that.

    I have supported measures in the legislature supporting efforts to ensure parents support their children.

    My "talk" was NOT easy. I have worked more rape & sexual assault cases than I care to remember. I have conducted hundreds of Rape & Sexual Assault Awareness classes over the years. I have also fought hard battles in the state legislature trying to strengthen our rape statutes. I would encourage you to research my record and not just assume that all Republicans and conservatives are something you should despise. I would encourage you to watch "The Invisible War" which was done by a hard left leaning group. I flew to Hollywood and donated several days to make that interview happen and I provided follow-up consulting to them. For my efforts, immediately following the Feb 2012 release of the movie, the DON claimed I was overpaid $2,700 for the last week I worked before I retired in Nov 2008... that was on top of the previous $2,400 they claimed I was overpaid in 2009. No appeal rights were given to either. For the record, they don't do spontaneous audits of retiree's active pay.

    I have been busy since August and have had little time for blogs.

  32. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Stace Nelson, you introduced Stalin, Hitler an Mao into this conversation, not me. You non answer to my initial question will serve as your answer. I believe politicians call it "evading a question".

    Hitler, Stalin or Mao have no place in the discourse of American political debate, they serve as nothing more than to place fear in the public. I don't buy it and don't think most of the good people here on madville buy it either.

    If I were to actually take the time to draw a correlation between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and Communist/Socialist Party it would quite evident there are more similarities between Republicans and the ideologies of Hitler and others.

    At the risk of getting another royal kiss off because you are too busy, I think this resolution is pointless and will go nowhere fast. It nothing short of grandstanding catering weak minded gullible tea party members.

    Yes, I do understand the Whereas's and agree with many of them, but when those Whereas's strip away the dignity of a woman's personal right of choice, than I am glad to be on the opposite side of the issue than you.

  33. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    I.P. I have 4 beautiful strong willed and brilliant daughters. Good Lord willing, the baby my eldest daughter carries will be my first grand-daughter.

    I miss our sparring of old. My apologies for being too busy to provide good sport. Pray you are well.

  34. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Okay, now I am deeply offended.

    Stace is willing to go off topic and discuss other issues that have risen here, but insist I stay on the Whereas's or else he won't talk to me because he is busy.

    Isn't that erratic behavior or something?

  35. interested party 2014.01.25

    Rep. Nelson: after you win your party's nomination as its candidate for US Senate, you can be secure in knowing that our sparring will resume.

    At your service.

  36. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Mr Cornelius, just because you cannot refute my answer does not mean it was not an answer.

    All three of those monsters engaged in euthanasia and are appropriate specters to the departure from the topic at hand which was the Resolution and verbiage therein. You may not like the winning hand that was played, but it does not make the reference wrong.

    While referencing those monsters' ghosts for consideration of their evil in light of the euthanasia issue is appropriate, you comparing my political views to them does invoke Godwin's Law:'s_law

    A person has the right to decide whether they want to conceive a child or not, they do not have a right to end that life.

    By internet standards, you have forfeited the debate. Regardless, you are not interested in debating the specificities of the resolution or the verbiage therein.

    Have a good day.

  37. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Stop "Urging" shit, Mr. Nelson, and get something done. Your commemorations and resolutions waste my taxpayer dollars and are the equivalent of "have you stopped beating your wife" and aren't worth the paper you are making those poor overworked LRCs print them on.

  38. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Mr. Cornelius,
    It appears you take umbrage and post too soon.

    Forgive me if I am not manacled to responding to each and every post on this or any other blog. I do not have time to respond to every departure from the topic at hand which is the Resolution.

    If you have a query on the specificities, please say so; otherwise, I need to be about other business.

  39. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Mr. Cornelius, I believe what Mr. Nelson is saying is he has more tweets to compose and cardboard signs to paint while he considers more time-wasting bills to propose. Commemoration of clean air hasn't been done for a while so that's probably up next.

  40. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Mr. Grudznick, I have plenty time for such things because the other candidates in the US Senate race are hiding from debates and running away from their voting records.

    All LRC had to do with everything I have filed so far, and the vast majority of that which I am preparing to file, is to have to cut and paste. You don't like the commemorations that I have filed for our State Troopers and National Guard members? Tough beans.

    I get plenty done in our legislature, the butt kissing you seem to think is good government? Not so much.

    Feel free to take it all up with me in person if you should ever feel up to it. You can ask Larry though, I really don't back down.

  41. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Have a good night folks.

    Mr. Grudznick gives me some urgings to write some appropriate posts, that wouldn't be appropriate.. :-D

  42. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Stace Nelson,

    I have forfeited nothing by anybody's standard, particularly the internet. The one running for office that refuses to answer direct questions, even if they are off topic, is the loser in more ways than one.

    As most here are, I too am well aware of the sordid history of Hitler, Stalin and Mao. The way the tea party invokes their atrocities is like a fear the 3 are hiding under the bed and will come back and get them.

    And yes, using Goodwin's standard to compare Republicans and Communist is fair game and speaks to itself. If you fear Goodwin, maybe you should.

    My respect for women is complete, including the right to choose what or who they carry. By labeling women that have had or will have an abortion is nothing short of calling them a Hitler, Stalin or Mao. Where is your respect for women Mr. Nelson. Are they now to go through life because you have judged them to be evil.

    There are many things in this country I don't like and can't do anything about. The man that beats or kills wife, sexual abuse in any form, etc., they are actions I can't do anything directly about. Women's health issue fit in that category and should fit in yours.

    Regardless of what a woman choose, she choose to pay the consequences, it is not your decision in any shape or manner.

    I understand your passion on this topic, now if you could channel that passion to some of the pressing issues in this state, it would be great.

    You know things like being the number one state in union with lowest teacher pay, our continues low ranking with the poorest education system and of course, this Republican that is ranked 3rd in the nation for cronyism and corruption (i.e. GOED/EB-5 scandal).

    These are issues that you could do something about, if you choose not to, I'll understand why.

  43. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Mr. Nelson, I look forward to it.

  44. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Mr. Cornelius, Do us both a favor and review all the bills that have sponsored these last 4 years and listen to the debates. Educate yourself on who I really am. You do us both a disservice with the vitriol and cookie cutter partisan rhetoric.

    I do not judge any woman who has gone through an abortion, it is not my place. I only have incredible sadness that our society has betrayed them in giving them an idea that it is okay or a right to end the life of a child.

    The difference between us? I have done something about the man that beat his wife, the rapist that rapes women, the child molesters, the murderers, the thieves, etc.

    I do not have the same anger towards you for your position on abortion, only sadness. You may want to examine your anger towards me for defending the life of an innocent child.

    Have a good day.

  45. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    Well folks, I'm sorry have run Mr. Nelson off. I suppose by his internet standards of debate he lost.

    It should be alarming that Stace cannot handle more than one subject at a time. In Washington there are always multiple topics on the Senate floor, I'm very concerned he may not be able to keep up.

    A few months back on a discussion about Obamacare and Stace's plan to repeal it, I asked him if Medicare for grandma and grandpa was a socialistic program? He couldn't or wouldn't answer me except in the vaguest of terms, something about the Constitution as we recall.

    Often times non-answers are the answer. Politicians are extremely adept at it.

  46. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Mr. Grudznick,
    I will be in Pierre all this next week, Rapid City next weekend. You can spot me real easy, I won't be the guy running away and backing down on the issues or the debates.. :-D

  47. grudznick 2014.01.25

    I say, and Mr. H might even agree, Mr. Nelson needs to commemorate a few teachers who dedicated their lives to helping others. Or maybe a few nurses. Or other things. Heck, I think Mr. Nelson has a form of uniform envy in a bad way.

  48. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Roger Cornelius,
    You do all of Mr "H's" readers a disservice by such antics. If less of such was employed, maybe more of SD's elected officials would brave the blog world and make themselves available for serious discussions and explain their mindsets on why they brought bills or vote the way they did.

    Don't expect respectful answers when you aren't respectful and don't expect others to weather such petty personal attacks.

    you're the winner Mr. Cornelius

  49. Lynn G. 2014.01.25

    Stace I may not agree with a number of positions you have but I'd like to thank you for your service and really hope you win the Republican nomination.

  50. grudznick 2014.01.25

    I will watch for the guy not running in Rapid City, Mr. Nelson. Please wear a hat so I can tell which is you.

  51. grudznick 2014.01.25

    You can't stop posting trying to deflect your history of ineffective legislation, can you Mr. Nelson?

  52. grudznick 2014.01.25

    You voted against funding for the Department of Veterans.
    I will have somebody find one of those magic links for me.

  53. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Grudz, You just showed you didn't have a clue what you were talking about...

    Happy to point out that I have been a helluva lot more successful than many of my peers. But that doesn't fit the gutter sliming some folks would like to pass off, now does it?

    Pretty sure this blog ran a post back in the day pointing out that was even more successful than some of the moderate establishment Republicans you seem to so like.

  54. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Mr. Nelson. Does it even trouble your mind that you are debating with a troll on the blogs and that shows you are insecure?

  55. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Dr. Bos does not debate with trolls.

  56. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Mr. Rhoden is far too busy being an effective legislatures fellow to debate with trolls.

  57. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Mr. Roundsborg isn't really in the internet yet.

  58. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Lynn G. I am not a politician. they run and hide and give ya 30 second manicured sound bytes of hot air and never take a stand on an issue in fear it will drive away people that allow themselves to be single issue voters. Me? I figure you deserve to know what I stand for and what my principles are, and that this country has too many of these wind vane politicians already.

    Leadership isn't sticking a finger in the air, doing a 360 and clambering onto an issue to pander to the public. Leadership is leading from the front and trying to set a good example. Only thing I want when folks send me back out to pasture? That they always knew I was trying to do the right thing for them and that I always put what I thought was their best interests first and foremost.

    thank you for the kind words. God bless.

    Good night folks! Seriously, last one.

  59. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Voted against veterans.
    Good night, Mr. Nelson.

  60. Rep. Stace Nelson 2014.01.25

    Grudz, that's you assuming I don't know who you are.. :-D

  61. grudznick 2014.01.25

    Good night, Mr. Nelson. See you in Rapid.

  62. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    What I Learned From My Conversation With Stace Nelson:

    He calls my hardball questions and comments antics, I call HCR1005 and antic.

    He has told Madville friends good night 3 times, goes to show how often a politician changes his mind.

    Declares that he is not a politician, despite the fact that he is in the legislature and is running for the Senate. Question, when is a politician not a politician.

    Has sadness for me because I believe women should have the right to make choices about their own decsion, I don't really need his sadness, I would rather he have that sadness for the women victimized by a throng of legislation that essentially gives government control of their bodies. Oddly, I always thought Republicans were against government intrusion and over regulation.

    I learned that Stace is extremely selectivively sensitive about going off topic. I guess I have to stick to the Whereas's.

    Stace thinks that I am too full of hate and anger and do a disservice to readers. Well get used to it Stace, that is what is out there. Put your big boy pants and be prepared for a hard campaign. Of course, we will understand if you choose not to answer hard and direct questions, "non-politicians" just like to say look at what I have done and trust me with your government".

    Stace consistently says look up my record, well Mr. Nelson, I'm not the one running for office, you are. If you want voters to see your record, provide it.

  63. Rick 2014.01.25

    "I have been busy since August and have had little time for blogs."

    You claim to have have little time yet you've written 21 responses on this topic. And I've seen postings by you on other blogs over the last few months.

  64. Jerry 2014.01.25

    I always find it amazing that fellers like Nelson and the rest of the manly crew that know so much about women's health and all that is woman, don't really know much. I think that they should maybe watch something like this to kind of get the idea that women and men are most definitely different and by knowing that, perhaps men will stop trying to dictate health issues to folks they do not understand one thing about.

    Nelson does not seem to see that this is just another form of bullying, something we see a lot of from the republican party.

  65. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25

    AMEN Jerry AMEN

  66. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.25

    Rep. Nelson. I'm glad you have experience with issues of Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault. So have I, managing both the Spearfish shelter and the Rapid City shelter in the 80s and 90s. I presented to the SD Peace Officers Annual meeting on DV & SA twice. I was a trainer for the SPD and the RCPD on the same issues. Yeah, I know what I'm talking about. And I'm a woman.

    There are some biological issues that women and men cannot eliminate. The way women think is not the way men think. The way women experience their environment and life is not the same as the way a man may experience nearly identical circumstances.

    I did not write that to diminish you, what you've done, or your beliefs. I wrote that to highlight a difference that is critical to this conversation. (I have always believed there are fundamental differences between women and men beyond the physical ones.)

    Rep. Nelson, you said, "No one is forcing anyone to conceive a child." Surely with your experience, you know how untrue that statement is. Women are forced to become pregnant daily. It may be an abusive, controlling male, be he husband, boyfriend, father, brother, or other relative or acquaintance. Forced pregnancy is a regular tactic of abusers.

    Several decades ago, someone; I think it was Gloria Steinem, said, "If men could become pregnant, birth control would be a sacrament." Don't you see that is still true? Millions of women across this nation and billions around the world know it is true. We know it deep in our guts.

    How many bills have you submitted to control men's sexual behavior? Where is the SD law that requires chemical castration for deadbeat dads? And if he doesn't report for his regularly scheduled injection, he's jailed. Where is that law?

    Where is the law that requires law enforcement to prioritize child support enforcement with no expectation that the mother must initiate the process? Where is the law that provides free child care, free parenting classes and tuition while she attends secondary or postsecondary school? These are tools that will enable her and her child to break the generational cycle of poverty, ignorance, and dependence.

    Rep. Nelson, I've presented many options that will improve the lives of women and greatly diminish the likelihood of unintended, unwanted pregnancies. Simply outlawing abortions does nothing to improve women's lives. It is another level of controlling us.

    Women are smart, capable, fully functional human beings. That we have to ask an overwhelmingly male power structure to grant us the ability to control our own bodies and lives is a glaring sign of how unequal we are. Yet you want us to accept full responsibility for our pregnancies even if we had no choice. That is inhumane. And, with your knowledge, you must know that.

    If you *give* women the tools we need, the same options men have, to control our lives and bodies, You Can Trust Us. We Can and Will Make Good Decisions. Well, at least we'll make decisions as well as males do.

    Rep. Nelson, I have no hard cold facts to convince you of this, so I'm going to rely on your good will and imagination: The world looks almost entirely different to the average, 5' 6", 160 lb woman, than it does to you.

  67. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.25


    Thi is one of the most well thought out and poignant comments I have ever read on this issue. You have successfully given legitimacy to the what should be the most important part of this discussion. A woman's point of view.

    Once men can truly understand the deep difference between them and women and appreciate what they don't understand, they will have an opportunity to enjoy and relish in that difference, not just making demands on their bodies.

    I could argue the whole night long trying to get Stace to understand, but he never will. If he cannot comprehend your words and positions, it is a sadness and his loss.

    Thanks for a great contribution.

  68. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.26

    You're welcome Roger. I am glad for your support, and all the other supportive males out there. I know there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of you.

    It is incredibly frustrating and belittling to be forced to try to convince non-females to accept our experiences of our existence. And be called liars, over emotional, angry, etc. Or worst of all, patronized and laughed at.

    Imagine a soldier coming back from war and telling his experiences. Then he's laughed at and told, "Come on now. It wasn't really that bad, now was it. You're just a little over excited there. Have a cookie and take a nap and you'll feel better in no time!"

    We used to treat soldiers like that. My Grampa came back from WWI to exactly that kind of treatment. He got accolades as a veteran, and then was supposed to go home and shut up. He and his comrades didn't even get the bonus money they were promised! (Much, much later he got *some* of it.)

    Contrast that with the way service women and men are treated now. Nearly every woman I know would give nearly anything to receive that kind of respect and appreciation, or even the respect given to the average male.

    I know that there are some women who disagree with me. That's what happens with fully functional human beings, there are disagreements. However, all women need not agree before any action can be taken, any more than all males must agree before any legislation that pertains chiefly to men can be passed.

    The thing is, we women are in the position of begging men to please believe us. How demeaning.

  69. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.26

    What I'm doing here is begging Rep. Nelson to Please Believe Me. What I'd love to hear from him is questions that ask for clarification. "What can we do to make the child support system work better for mothers?" "I don't think we can order chemical castration, but here are some other options that might pass constitutional muster." "Can you help me research what other states have done to empower women to have more control over their reproduction other than abortion."

    Those kinds of responses tell me that the other person in the conversation is sincere. "No, no, no," is an answer about power. It's similar to a parent saying, "Because I said so!" What role does that assign the woman to?

    Sometimes I become very, very angry about these types of conversations. It is a righteous anger that I am not at all embarrassed or ashamed of.

  70. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.26

    What annoys to me to end about these conversations is not going to the essence of the debate, and that the freedoms and personal rights that all people should have. The tea party Republicans inject the Constitution and God's Law into the debate as if they are the finally authority, they are not.

    Having been in the position myself of being relegated to a second class and attempts for me to shut up and enjoy the piece meal rights granted me, makes it easy to empathize with the plight of women.

    When Americans can rightly interpret the meaning of the Bill of Rights and Constitution, they will realize that freedom applies to everyone and it is unjust to legislate other human beings or their life choices. This country has a long sorry history of controlling and dominating women and minorities and have for the most have been successful.

    Women and minorities in particular, have had to fight for nearly every right and freedom that is taken for granted by our rulers. Not anymore.

    Like you, my anger rages when I see anyone or group that is being subjected to demeaning positions and legislated against. What it suggest to me is that these perpetrators have no comprehension of that mighty phrase, "All Men Are Created Equal", they are simply 5 words that are constantly twisted and thwarted to create politicians that fight for suppression of people and not serve them.

  71. Deb Geelsdottir/ 2014.01.26

    Bull's eye Roger!

    I've got to get to bed now. Church comes early and it's bone-chilling cold out there!


  72. mike from iowa 2014.01.26

    Rep Nelson, at 17:08 you stated...."however,after that baby is conceived,it has a seperate heart beat,seperate DNA,seperate brain waves,a seperate soul,and is a seperate person." If that is true and if,as you say,the mother has no right to an abortion(Scotus had something to say about this),then why can't or won't the state remove that non-viable mass of cells and grow it outside the Mother's womb?
    Would you kindly point out in your constitution the word God or christianity? Since "God"doesn't appear in the constitution,what gives you the right to claim a fetus has a God given anything? What makes you believe a fetus would accept your version of religion?
    Freedom of choice is not about allowing a woman to choose to become pregnant. It is about allowing a woman to make decisions for herself and that cluster of cells that cannot survive away from the womb until it reaches viability. Unless and until then,that cluster of cells is wholly dependent on,not seperate,from it's Mother. Your religious beliefs have no place in this discussion.

  73. interested party 2014.01.26

    Rich women have full reproductive freedoms: they just fly to states to exercise their civil rights while women living on the fringes and even in the middle class take more unwanted pregnancies to term.

    Rep. Nelson has no choice but to restrict civil liberties because his party's war on women compels him to.

  74. interested party 2014.01.26

    Look at the crap Powers is posting: restricting civil rights for white women at the fringes is business as usual.

  75. Keryl Brady 2014.01.26

    I'm guessing that since Mr. Nelson is so "pro-life", he actively works to support & increase spending for services that assist the entire lifespan of said fetus once it exits the birth canal. Like increasing state support for public & higher education, raising teachers' pay, expanding Medicaid under the ACA so low-income pregnant women can get good prenatal care in order to have healthy babies, bringing in good paying jobs to SD, insuring that federal & state-funded support networks are adequately staffed & funded, community mental health centers are adequately staffed & funded, and state-run social services programs have the funds & staffing to meet the needs of aging fetuses (yes, I'm being sarcastic with that last comment). The list goes on. Respect for life ought to be present throughout the developmental and aging continuum. If not, Mr. Nelson is "pro-birth", not "pro-life". Funny (not) how legislators focus on women's reproductive health & rights when there are so many other more pressing concerns facing South Dakota. A handy way to avoid the truly tough issues. Nero fiddled while Rome burned. . . . .

  76. owen reitzel 2014.01.26

    wel said Keryl. Well said.
    My thoughts exactly

  77. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.26

    Stace are in here reading the blogs?

    Please come back, I'll be nice!!!

  78. caheidelberger Post author | 2014.01.27

    Rep. Nelson asked for a refutation of his carefully chosen Whereas clauses. That's not the only route to justifying a No vote on HCR 1005. Every Whereas clause may be true but not lead to the logical or moral conclusion that we should apply 5th and 14th Amendment rights to fetuses.

    As I said in the original post, we cannot apply 5th and 14th Amendment rights to fetuses without sacrificing the same rights of adult female citizens. Establishing a precedent that the government can force any free citizen into submission to secure the liberty of another leaves our posterity the blessing of tyranny.

    You want to secure liberty? Women, I offer you the promise I make in the "pro-choice" definition above: the only person deciding whether a woman should be pregnant is the woman. That promise secures your liberty. Free women secure our posterity better than women in bondage.

  79. Roger Cornelius 2014.01.27


    That pretty much sums it up.

    Stace wants to provide a fetus the rights of the 5th and 14th Amendments, a logical question is why he would limit a fetus those rights and not all rights? Oops! I may have just provided him with another whereas.

    An additional problems with the SB1005 and SB67 and similar bills, is that Republicans are looking for a self satisfying quick fix.

    One thing is clear, while they spout rights granted them by the Constitutin they lack a sense of history. Every change made to the Constitution was made after a civil struggle, often times bloody and deadly.

    Often times I think Republicans want to actually go to war with those seeking the same rights that they hold so dearly and feel those Constitutional rights apply just to them.

Comments are closed.