According to the South Dakota Republican Party, Stephanie Herseth Sandlin was a terrible Congresswoman because she was out of touch with South Dakota values. Folks campaigning for Kristi Noem in 2010 suggested that, with her fancy-schmancy Georgetown education, her Texas husband, and property in Washington and/or Texas, SHS wasn't a real South Dakotan.
Funny then that South Dakota Republicans are now giddily welcoming their new fearless party leader, Tony Post, a fine gentleman with no apparent connection to South Dakota other than his new paycheck. Let's see: moving from swanky suburban Twin Cities (Woodbury's per capita income 50% higher than in Sioux Falls), educated in Arizona and Florida, worked in Florida and Minnesota... how nice! Thank you, SDGOP, for taking the "not South Dakotan enough" argument off the table for the coming election.
On the down side, our Republican neighbors apparently don't believe there are any South Dakotans equally capable of running their party. So instead, they turn to an out-of-stater with an unoriginal cartoon as his professional profile image. Nice. Symbolic, really, of how the purported values of the Republican Party are just a caricature of the budget silliness and plutocracy they really vote for.
Welcome to South Dakota, Tony! We all look forward to your first shots in the continuing Republican war on the weak.
This is a tragedy. It's one thing to hire an out of stater when there aren't qualified people in SD but Ohleen was apparenty interested and he is more than qualified.
Rave made a huge mistake not hiring a South Dakotan. I'm sure the real decision rests on Noem's shoulders and Thune's. I doubt Rave had much say.
Pretty standard in SD politics. We apparently have a massive inferiority complex that keeps us from hiring qualified and experienced South Dakotans in favor of out of staters. Another big contributor to the "brain drain."
In my opinion, we must take care when we use expressions such as "war on the weak." As a person who calls himself a Republican (despite a few far-left views), I don't sense that my party bears any animosity to people truly in need.
The problem comes when people artifically make themselves poor, weak, or sick in an attempt to game the system. I fell for one of these people not so long ago, and my generosity finally ran out when I saw that I had likely done him more harm than good.
In another case, I have yet to get a certain person out of my mind and dismiss her as a con artist, despite every indication that she's that much and worse. I want to help her -- and yet, I suspect, the best help I can offer is to let her crash and burn.
The hard reality comes down to this: Some people are hard-wired for chaos. Period.
In an ideal world, Cory, a society would ask people to deliver in accordance with their abilities, and would give out to them in accordance with their needs. Unfortunately, my own experience leads me to believe that such a "kind-hearted" system causes people to minimize their abilities and maximize their needs -- with a few exceptions, such as you and me, perhaps.
As for us South Dakotans going out-of-state to find a party leader, I think it indicates a serious self-confidence problem. You know, the bold front with the insecure interior. If I didn't agree with so many of Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin's views, I'd be downright scared of her.
Stan, nobody hates the poor more than liberals. Yes they talk a good game but their policies are a direct attack on employment options for them and deny them a chance to provide for their families.
This blatant assault on the poor for political power in light of their manipulative "pro-poor" rhetoric makes their hatred even more egregious.
Troy, that's just silly. Your contention is based on assuming that liberals don't mean what they say. Liberals could be wrong—their efforts to help the poor may be counterproductive (a debate worth having!), but they are not motivated by dislike for the poor. GOP rhetoric much more commonly and explicitly holds up the poor as objects of dislike (where'd that talk about welfare queens come from?). And follow the money: budget proposals that take away assistance from the poor yet give more money to the rich and preserve tax breaks for giant corporations suggest, if not hatred for the poor, at least greater fondness for the richest and most powerful.
If Democrats were really imposing all their terrible policies just to get power, wouldn't they act logically and focus their efforts on winning the favor of the rich and powerful, the way the Republicans do, rather than concentrating on the much less politically involved poor? Are Democrats both hateful and stupid?
Oh come on now, the Dems have plenty of rich and powerful among their friends and supporters - GE, Hollywood, Soros to name a few. And many of the Dems terrible policies are enacted to keep certain peoples poor and dependent on the gov't in order to keep them voting for Dem candidates and policies. And yesterday Obama was out pandering to the Latino population using the illegal immigration issue, a blatant effort to keep his power via the Latino voters. If Obama really wanted to deal with the problem, he would first secure the border, which he and others have refused to do, but he prefers to use it as a political issue to get votes and keep himself in power.
We have an example of using policies to keep power via votes in our own state. Look at the reservations. The Dems keep promising better conditions via more money etc in return for keeping them in power, and we know that conditions have not improved. Yet they vote for the most part for the Dems whose empty promises have not worked, except for getting votes.
Cory stated above, "If Democrats were really imposing all their terrible policies just to get power, wouldnâ€™t they act logically and focus their efforts on winning the favor of the rich and powerful, the way the Republicans do, rather than concentrating on the much less politically involved poor? Are Democrats both hateful and stupid?" No, the Dems are not stupid; they are smart to concentrate on the poor who are much more likely to once again vote for the candidate/party who promises them even more and more from the "stash." And right now with about half or more Americans paying no income taxes, and a huge percentage receiving some sort of gov't assistance in one form or another, these voters are a huge bloc that the Dems are very smart to concentrate on by playing the poor vs rich argument.
There you have it, tribes. The GOP doesn't want you in South Dakota. Secede now!
This started with a pretty good point for you to make - why the ED pick by the GOP - a real head-scratcher; but, morphed into a much more interesting discussion about why your Soros Dems adopt anti-low-income policies (is it intentional or is it is stupidity). There are some great Doonsbury cartoons with the street people couple, where they are anticipating panhandling when the Dem Conv comes to their city, and ELmo says he likes the liberals because "they won't talk to us, but they always give us money." :) Glad you are keeping it interesting for us buddy
Cory, when I read your attempt to claim to know the motives of the GOP, I am absolutely convinced you are a person who hates the poor and loves manipulatiing them to support your world view.
Tribes! It's time to sue for peace. Pull out of the gaming compact with South Dakota. Bring on the Black Hills Land Claim while President Obama is riding the crest. Force the FS out of the USDA and into the BIA.
So Troy, how do you get to do the same thing, attempt to claim to know the motives of the other party, yet still claim moral superiority in this argument? I'm looking at pretty obvious policies and asking people what they would conclude from them.
And on the original point, by hiring an out-of-stater, the SD GOP seems to be sending a pretty clear message about its opinion of the South Dakota talent pool. Kelsey, the inferiority complex crossed my mind as well.
Troy you are so typical of an anal, self loathing righty tighty, do any of you ever use your head for anything other than a place for a cap or hat? I'm a proud liberal and poor. Working class poor and damn proud of it. liberals do not hate the poor. Righty Republicans hate and use the poor. Next time THINK before you open your trap. What have you done or accomplished in your life? Republicans/Cons/Baggers always have their hands out or their picking someone else's pocket and messing with their private lives. Ignorant and determined to stay that way, eh Troy?
And what exactly have Cons ever done for the poor, or minorities especially Native Americans, and women and children? Oh excuse me, you include the rich as a minority. Sad, pathetic hypocrites. Liars and thieves pure and simple.
..."when I read your attempt to claim to know the motives of the GOP"...
Which GOP, guys? There are so many flavors of you these days, I'm having a hard time distinguishing you from some of the Democrats. ;^)
And who was more Hollywood than Audie Murphy, George Murphy, Shirley Temple Black, Fred Granby, Sonny Buono, Fred Thompson, Arnold Schwarznegger and and Ronald Reagan? Who else would promote simpletons like GWB and Kristi Noem? In Republican land they rarely earn their wealth, they inherit it like the Koch brothers courtesy of dad and the former Soviet Union. Or they pilfer it like Darrell Issa. They buy their way into office now. South Dakotan Repubs/Tea aren't much different than anywhere else, just oblivious to reality and willing to vote against their own best interests in the hope that somehow it'll rub off on them. Never happen, folks! Be stupid and ignorant. Take your shots at Cory, who happens to have one of the best blogs I have seen anywhere. And he gives us all an opportunity to voice our opinions.
Yow, looks like Vince is having a crabby morning. Vince, Troy and Lee are thoughtful, good natured guys â€” wrong most of the time (;^) but usually pretty nice about it.
I've been trying for a long time to get why Troy keeps saying that "Dems hate the poor" thing, and am almost getting what I think he MIGHT be trying to say.
I say let's encourage him to open up and explain his idea in more detail instead of going up side his head, whaddya say?
This is, afterall just a blog, right?
And we're all friends and fellow Americans here, right?
Besides, the time to vent your spleen is when Bob Ellis comes on here. If you've not met him yet, you're in for a real treat, man. Namaste. BF
Exactly. When the earth-haters comment at Madville, it's because Cory has struck a nerve.
Hopefully he's smarter than a Post
Here is the essence of at least this conservatives argument:
Over the last fifty years:
1) the "military industrial complex" has become the unholy alliance between big government, big labor, and big business. The situation is compounded by the specific disaster of big banks and big education.
2) the lack of mobility between classes has become seriously stratified. Despite all the promises of the "Great Society" and its siblings, the government/liberal solutions have not worked. The opportunity for the poor to move into the middle class as never been harder.
Everything in my political, economic, and religious views are driven by a "preferential option for the poor."
I believe the unholy alliance of Big Business, Big Government and Big Labor has destroyed the opportunity for the poor to improve their lives and the results of liberal programs provides great evidence of this effect (regardless of the babble of their intentions). I believe a job does more for the poor than any government program every can. I believe jobs come from sound and low tax policies (even if the rich keep more of their earnings) which encourage risk and business creation. I believe the excessive intrusion of regulations does more harm to jobs and opportunity to the poor than ANY asserted benefit to the poor. And most immediately, I believe the current economic track we are on of maintaining of spending and borrowing threatens even those safety nets I believe are appropriate.
Disagree on my policies and views with regard to whether they fulfill my intentional pursuit of my preferential option. People of good will can and often do disagree. But, the accusations like Vince's show no good will and for which I have absolutely no respect.
So if Cory and Vince feel justified in claiming concern for the poor because of their support for programs that have had dismal results and can question the motives of those who disagree with them with charges of a lack of concern for the poor, it is wholly justified to hold them accountable for the devastating effect of their programs as hatred for the poor.
Don't like the characterization, don't be so quick to characterize those you disagree with. As my liberal buddy Bill Fleming likes to say, "I'm just saying."
P.S. Vince, I think you need to do some research among members of Congress who have inherited their wealth and who have earned it. Your analogy applies alot more to liberal Democrats than conservative Republicans. A lot more.
Furthermore, the situation with Native Americans couldn't be a more clear example how too much government destroys opportunity to lift one out of poverty and creates a perpetual tragedy. To somehow use Native Americans to justify liberal policy is damn near Orwellian double-speak.
Regarding Cory's question, are liberals stupid or hateful? Since they tell me all the time they are smarter than me, I'll take them at their word. They know what they are doing. So, it makes them hateful. But, I guess I could just assume they are stupid. Works for me. Liberals are stupid.
First, I don't think anyone, except a neo-con true believer, is going to argue with Troy about what the military industrial complex. Corporate elites and government elites have an incestuous relationship that is weakening this country. The Great Recession was a direct result of government regulators ignoring the bad behavior of companies that are allegedly too big to fail.
The crux of the debate seems to be which of the incestuous partners does one trust. In a better world, one would have the option of declaring which one distrusts less, but that option seldom seems to have been offered. It seems, therefore, that false choices force one to choose either big government or big corporations. Because the differences between the two are so small, I guess the vitriol has to be really high.
Iâ€™m not sure why one would lump big labor and big education in with big corporations and big government. Iâ€™m not even sure what big education is. If youâ€™re contending that labor elites are in bed with the other elites, I probably agree with you. If youâ€™re contending that workers need no protection from exploitation, then I want the address of the Utopia that you live in.
In an effort at commodity, letâ€™s see if we can agree on the following propositions.
Neither George Soros nor the Koch brothers give a damn about anyone in South Dakota and both would screw us over if that act increased their bottom line.
MSNBC and Fox are both shills. Given that itâ€™s impossible to be objective, one shouldnâ€™t necessarily fault either organization, but neither organization should claim to be balanced.
The PATRIOT Act with its secret provisions is a bigger threat to freedom than the known provisions of Obamacare.
The United States canâ€™t continue to overextend its military.
As for the arguments about who helps the poor the most, letâ€™s be honest: neither the right nor the left have been successful. Heck, even Jesus wasnâ€™t successful. He said that the poor would always be with us.
I have no idea how to begin to deal with the problem of poverty. It scares me. I feel as if Iâ€™m about 10 seconds away from it. Iâ€™ll go back to the â€œa pox on both of their housesâ€ sentiment. If the conservative â€œlet the markets decide everythingâ€ sentiment is given free rein, every employee will wind up owing his soul to the company store. If the liberal vision of your nightmares becomes a reality, the whole country will go bankrupt.
Reading over this post, it seems that Iâ€™m seeing the problem with poverty or freedom coming down not to intellect or compassion, but to fear and trust. If that's the case, then the conversations probably have to eliminate a lot of buzzwords and work to shrink government and corporate influence. I don't see that happening anytime soon, so maybe we should just try to remember three propositions. 1. most people make mistakes and misjudgments out of ignorance not malice. 2. Ignorance is lack of knowledge that can be rectified through diligent study. Stupidity is refusal to accept that one can be wrong.
Easy for a wasicu born with a silver forked tongue to say. What part of genocide don't you understand, Mr. Jones? http://www.jstor.org/pss/684008
Oh, and it's "smarter than I."
First let me say yesterday was a great morning/day and in my view any day is a great day. Second , don't call me Vince unless you actually know me. And then I might let it slide. Research ,Troy ? You absolutely know zilch, nada, niente about me. I don't put notions out there that without knowledge of whence I speak. Republi/Cons set themselves up for the great fall that is destined to beset them when they decided to invest in fascism in its infancy. I'm not talking about what it became, but rather the notion of corporatism. Mussolini described himself as a corporatist. And if it had been up to Republicans we wouldn't have intervened whenever genocidal conflicts have arisen. They are always the reluctant ones. I grew up in a Conservative Republican family and some of my strongest influences were true conservatives, including teachers. My father's family were political. My uncle was an elected Republican. A cousin worked in the State Dept. under several administrations. I don't just spout and regurgitate an opinion that I heard somewhere. I live it, and breathe it. No kool-aid here. And as a vegan, I walk the walk. Are Dem's perfect? No and we don't claim to be, but everything great in this country has at its source liberal democratic and labor roots. And this harping on about George Soros is just trash that folks like you dredge up when your argument lacks substance and fact. Yes I am a liberal progressive democrat and I'm damn proud of it.
It is obvious for you ignorance is bliss. Your adhominem attack comparing us to Mussulini and fascists is so over the top and ignorant.
Fascism as an economic system (I can't even address the idea you think conservatives are Mussulini-esqe from his other horror views) is private ownership and government control. How is that different from what you liberals keep proposing with your regulations? And Obama/Geitner bank policies are almost a perfect definition of fascism banking policy.
Have another great day.
P.S. I know your cousin quite well. He must be proud to have you using the family name in this forum.
Hey Vince, how about you lighten up? We're all friends here. If I have remember to call you "Vincent" you'll have to call me next Thursday. :^)
(...what a grouch this guy. Gives us other pinko commie secular humanist backsliders a bad name. Must be a Trosky fan.)
Oh, and Vince, remember... when a guy is on his way to becoming way too conservative, the first way you can tell is that they lose their sense of humor.
Excuse me, Mr. Fleming: is it not presumptuous to state that we are ALL friends here? Frankly, since the only Republican for whom this Democrat has any respect whatsoever is David Brooks, Rapture can't happen soon enough.
See you and Cory when we get there.
When Bill tells us to lighten up, he is reminding us why we are debating issues. To make it better for all. And when we forget there are people on the other side, we have already lost the argument. Thanks Bill for keeping us in line.
P.S. When Bill and I defend each other, we both get a little goofy looks on our face. You just can't see it.
The fact is, Mr. Jones: the GOP is as fractured as it has ever been in american history. A prolonged bloodbath among the participants will not only warm the cockles of my heart, it will serve to bolster the Presidentâ€™s stature as a community organizer.
Whoâ€™s your dream team, Troy?
Larry, you're just one laugh and one goofy face away from the rapture, every minute of every day. Something tells me you already know that, brother.
As far as I'm concerned, y'all suck at governance. Democrats, Republicans... both spend my money equally fast. Both bungle foreign, domestic, and social policy. America is such a rich, diverse population that a binary political system doesn't suit it.
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
Success! We have succeeded in driving people like Wayne out of the voting pool!
Hail to Corothy! The Wicked Witch is dead!
"Ohhh... you cursed brat! Look what you've DONE! I'm melting! Melting! Oh... what a world, what a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness?!"
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