The South Dakota House showed a little common sense yesterday and killed House Bill 1206, which would have allowed individuals to carry concealed weapons on our public university campuses. But some Republicans couldn't let that happen without exposing their contempt for the university students from across the state who admirably mobilized, testified, and lobbied to kill this bill. Young voters, pay attention.
Rep. Scott Craig (R-33/Rapid City) rose to speak to the dying bill (around timestamp 1:09:30 in the SDPB audio). He said he could be inclined to vote against the bill, just because he thinks most college kids—not the righteous, upstanding youth whom he thinks would carry guns on campus, but all the rest of the kids—are drunk rapists:
I wish I saw an irate student body, the representatives of the student bodies in all of our universities and colleges, I wish they were irate about what is killing, not about what might or what could, which I think is a real stretch, but what is killing their peers right now. The date rape is just nuts. We have an out-of-control culture, period, and a big part of that is seen in a four-year party.
I am very concerned about that. Now I am not so concerned about students carrying guns on campus, given who I believe those students would be. At the same time, my concern about the current system, just the culture of college, it is a bar, in many respects it is like a bar, and it is against the law to bring a gun to a bar.
I voted yes for this in committee. I just might vote no on it simply because our young folks are out of control. There's a lot of drinking, and it's like bringing guns to a bar when you go to college [Rep. Scott Craig, floor debate on HB 1206, South Dakota House, Pierre, South Dakota, 2015.02.19].
Rep. Craig did vote to let students bring concealed weapons to their drunken four-year party.
HB 1206 sponsor Rep. Jim Stalzer (R-11/Sioux Falls) followed with his closing remarks. He said a fair amount of rot, but none more rotten than this blatant insult:
When I was in college, I actually had to go to class. I don't know how all these people are here today [Rep. Jim Stalzer, floor debate on HB 1206, South Dakota House, Pierre, South Dakota, 2015.02.19].
Rep. Stalzer chortled at his own comment, as did several of his colleagues. Stalzer and friends are laughing at you, students. They are ridiculing your effort to participate in the political process. They are ridiculing the sacrifice you made to miss class, drive three hours in the middle of winter, and try to persuade a bunch of people who apparently don't respect you to still vote in the interests of public safety on your campuses. They are ridiculing you, students, for daring to use your voice.
Young people, Republicans like Craig and Stalzer need to go. You need to remember these speeches made on the floor of the South Dakota House. You need to come out en masse to vote in 2016 and vote these men out of office.
p.s.: I remind you, students: every Democrat in the House voted against HB 1206. We Democrats don't talk about students that way. We Democrats respect your voice.
Disgusting. And we're told to write to our legislators to try to sway them one way or another on a piece of legislation? Like that's going to do any good! To hear that people who make the effort to actually go to Pierre to make their voices heard are marginalized and made the butt of jokes like this dispels any doubt in my mind that input from constituents means anything.
College students, of course, are both little acquainted with realities of adult existence and walled off from conservative views, so they’re the perfect audience for Stewart’s shtick, which depends on assumptions that are as unquestioned as they are false.
I posted this earlier today. From Kyle Smith of the NY Post about Jon Stewart. I will say college students in South Dakota have been exposed to conservative views and find them wanting.
I'm glad I went to a suitcase college because it may have ended differently if there were actually people around to watch me walk out of my dorm room with my shotgun. I didn't think anything of it at the time as even as late as 2003, we had shotguns in our vehicle on high school property and there wasn't an issue. I am guessing most ccw's won't stop from carrying on school grounds and no one will be the wiser. I guess I wouldn't condemn a student who did.
If'n it were all about the rapin', you'd think the young'uns would be all fer more guns on campus. I mean, right now you gotta go to where the girls are, get 'em good 'n liquored up, somehow hornswaggle 'em into comin' back to yer place, and git 'r done. If'n y'all had ya a shootin' iron, heck! Ya could just pull out the ol' hog leg an' tell the purdy li'l thing she's gonna do ya the easy way or the hard way 'n the choice is up ta her.
Forgive my disbelief! How can the state legislators and governor live with themselves? Rejoice in the questioning curiosity and interest of your young people. You shame them and throw water on the fire of enthusiasm. You fail to support their educators and their education. Then you tell them it is okay to discriminate! Now will you make it harder for them to vote?
Castigate all of the legislatures and governor and treasurers for the actions of this Mr. Stalzer fellow who is insaner than most. This man is from Sioux Falls.
They should be ashamed of themselves. You will never convince me that Stalzer never skipped a class or a day of college. This is kind of the same thing as when the Indian kids were harassed by white kids at a hockey game. These alleged adults were ridiculing college students.
AAB MV Times -- need more in-your-face vigor just like what was aimed today exposing these two GOP clowns in similar manner for what they are - "Gutless Cowards" who could not handle testimony from college students! Wonder if these two disgusting representatives also wet their pants when challenged by the brave college students?
It's my belief that many, probably a majority, of the legislators think in a similar manner. These were the only ones to actually voice it.
Grudz,I believe you mispelled "castrate" all legislators,etc.
Rep. Craig is not very articulate for a preacher. I read his statement a couple times and still am not clear on the point he's trying to make. Ironically, a term in the legislature is a 2-year party of free food, free booze and a public pulpit to spew nonsense like that spewed by Rep. Craig.
I wonder if Stalzer tells business people when they come to testify on a bill that they should be back in their corner of SD working? "This is work for me. Don't you guys have work to do somewhere? (ha,ha,ha)." Does he tell married women that they should be home cooking supper and doing wifely duties? "Used to be wives cooked supper for their husbands and gave them a back rub when they came home. What are you ladies doing here? (chuckle chuckle)."
Now we need someone to tell us to embrace Stalzer's opinions in order to win elections.
Legislators listen to their constituents more than you apparently realize. Contact with information makes a difference.
@MFI You are not understanding the Democrats problem with these votes or how their moderate "Republicans" who voted with them, will turn the tables on them on this issue. Until you do, your opponents will continue to have their cake, eat it too, and beat your candidates about their brow with it. I'll give you a hint. While the Democrats will stand fast on their positions, the moderates will reform their records between now and the next election with symbolic bills and empty rhetoric. During the election the moderate "Republicans" will trot out the gun control effigy of Liberals to beat up on even as they hide from their own record on this bill. In order to beat them at their bait and switch game? You need to hold them close on these votes.
Mr. Schoenbeck, why did they talk to their constituents like that then? Don't they respect the citizens? The legislators didn't sound like they were listening.
Can you clarify what you meant by "Contact with information?" Are you saying there are things those students and SD citizens don't know? Is someone going to tell us? Or is it secret information?
South Dakota Democrats: go out and buy the best gun you can afford, practice, then prepare to defend yourselves from your neighbors.
It's so ironic that Rep. Craig included date rape in his description of how bad college life is. It's almost funny that his plan to solve the problem he identified is arming students. Apparently he wants the women to shoot the rapists. There you go. But what if the rapists brings a gun? Oops. Problem.
I am unaware of how many bills Rep. Craig has offered to make it easier to prosecute date rapists. Or provide plenty of money for processing rape kits.
While I'm happy to hear that Craig is concerned about date rape on SD's college campuses, I'd feel more convinced if there was more evidence -any evidence- that he's been trying to do something specific about it.
HB 1206 sponsor Rep. Jim Stalzer (R-11/Sioux Falls), if you did not bring such a bill forward, these college students could have stayed home. Obviously the students were concerned for their safety and not only took time to travel to Pierre, but also had to spend their own money to stop this bill. Then to make matters worse, you critics these students for standing up to their believes. This is just another example of wasting time and money. Your time in Pierre should be spent helping people, not pushing your personal agenda.
Scott, it's not Stalzer's personal agenda. It's the gun lobby operating via the NRA. A good NRA rating is worth a lot of money to Stalzer in campaign contributions (bribes) and political junkets (free travel).
Daniel, why won't you condemn a student who willfully violates the law? I'd condemn them much sooner than I would condemn the diligent students who went to Pierre to lobby against this unwise bill. Or are students just supposed to take their lawbreaking legislators as role models?
Perhaps Rep. Craig should ask students to get worked up about suicide on campus, which one study says 1.2% of college students attempt. (I find that number incredible.) Lost and Found is a USD student organization working to prevent suicide.
By the way, the SDSU Criminal Justice Club is working to raise awareness of rape, sexual assault, and gender violence.
Lee Schoenbeck, I have experienced the scorn of legislators when I presented irrefutable data. It is probably true that legislators pay some attention to some of the stuff they receive in whatever inbox, but I have not noticed that many apply evidence to their decision to support a given piece of legislation. Unless, of course, the evidence supports their stance.
During my undergrad days at SDSU, my best friend's roommate used a handgun to shoot a bird outside their dorm room window, right through the screen. They had to put Scotch tape over the hole to keep the flies out.
You participate and organize around an issue. You contact your legislator. You sacrifice your time to make a special trip to testify and lobby. You present facts and change a few minds. You win. What happens? The legislative class immediately maligns you with the kind of snarky asinine statements that makes it clear THESE LEGISLATORS DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT BEING AN AMERICAN.
These clowns need to apologize right now to these students, or they should immediately resign.
During my undergrad days at SDSU, Richard Nixon napalmed Vietnam.
Phil, sadly I think you're right. Hey we need to keep our best and brightest here in South Dakota they keep saying and yet they wonder why the youth keep fleeing the state.
During my undergrad days at SDSU AIM took over the Custer County Courthouse.
During my undergrad days at SDSU there were still shelterbelts in Brookings County.
Just why in the hell does Disgusted Dakotan come over to Madville Times and attempt to make a bunch of liberal Democrats into Republicans.
I'm not falling for his foolishness and poor analysis, Democrats and Republicans are different, DD apparently can't see or understand that.
The problem in this state is not the Democratic party, it is the low-information dumb Republican voters that follow their leaders like sheep on non-existent 2nd Amendment and abortion controversies.
I fully support anyone taking time to travel to Pierre and make their position known. Such a trip will take the better part of a day to get there, say your peace, then get back. If you feel that strongly about a topic then by all means, saddle up, and make your voice heard. The capital is open for everyone, including students.
What I fail to understand is this irrational fear of guns and gun owners. Most of the people I know that carry a gun, openly or concealed, are well adjusted and are confidant with that firearm, in other words, they have been to the range, and they have fired the gun at a target. Just because they have a gun doesn't mean they will start shooting at random people.
All that being said, our college campus are some of the safest around, and students can walk around in the middle of the night and feel safe. There is not any need for students, faculty, or even the police to carry a gun.
However this isn't about campus security, it is about rights. They have the right speak their mind; they have the right to assembly; they have the right address their government; they have the right to pray to the God of their choice and they have the right to keep and bear arms.
Cory, I have a problem with applying logic that says "we trust you to carry a concealed weapon in SD....except when you walk into a gun free zone." As long as you are in a clear state of mind, I have no problem with where you carry. I would change that opinion if the requirement for a gun free zone required an armed guard for protection. It's only a matter of time before a gun free zone becomes a killing zone. Most responsible ccw holders will do so without anyone knowing. The first rule they teach you is you always avoid having to use your ccw. Fleeing is always the first choice. In the case where that is not an option, you must protect yourself and those who can't. The #1 goal of every ccw is to not have to use it in the first place. And for the record, I am all for classes, licensing, and the proper continued education to maintain a license. I am a gun nut who pushes for responsible regulation which includes the proper locking mechanisms at home and while in transport with ramifications if you don't properly secure your weapon and someone is injured because of that. If you do use your ccw, and you don't do it responsibly, you should be punished.
South Dakota Democrats: go out and buy the best gun you can afford, practice using it and prepare to defend yourselves and your families from your neighbors.
"with ramifications if you don't properly secure your weapon and someone is injured because of that"
Daniel, once somebody gets their brains blown out don't you think it's a bit late? Ask the kids in Colorado, Sandy Hook or a number of other places about that, oh wait, you can't they are dead. What is it about you right wing christian conservatives that you feel you must carry enough weapons with you to fight a small war?
SD ammosexuals have the mentality like the Las Vegas mother who went out to fight a kid with her son and his gun and got gunned down instead when an easy 911 call would have sufficed. I can't begin to fathom the stupidity here but SD, it really reminds me of your ammosexuals that you voted in that want to fight crime on their own.
3 completely irrational and emotional responses full of stereotypes degrading responsible gun owners. Great discourse.
If the 2nd amendment cannot be infringed,why can't pre-schoolers pack heat to class? Why hasn't the NRA been allowed to plant a gun in every uterus of every pregnant woman? Boggles the mind to see how infringeable the uninfringeable 2nd amendment is.
Quick,call your congressweasels. The NRA is gonna transplant guns into every female of every age with or without their permission. It is their 2nd amendment rights and you can't do nothing about it. Oh the humanity!
Sidearms for the preborn! Toddlers have killed more Americans than "terrorists" have.
"completely irrational and emotional"—dang, I thought Daniel was waking up and referring to the idea that college campuses are dangerous places requiring constant armed vigilance.
Curious: when's the last time anyone was shot on a South Dakota college campus?
But o.k., Dan, put your money where your mouth is. Where are the concealed-carry bills advocating the tighter training and licensing requirements you say you support? Every concealed-carry bill I've seen this session seems to advocate looser restrictions, or just doing away with the permit requirements altogether. Why aren't you and other responsible gun owners advocating for the same sort of training that we require for drivers licenses?
Even the most responsible gun owner should leave her gun at the door at certain places. No citizen should bring a gun into a classroom, a courtroom, or a church. Why can we not agree as citizens to hold certain spaces sacred? Why can we not declare our strength and our freedom from terror by laying down our weapons and entering those spaces with a commitment to intellect and civil order?
I believe in the social contract. I stake my life on it every day. Dan lacks the courage to do that.
Chris, you hit on an enormously important contradiction. We can't recruit youth when leaders like Stalzer and Craig throw dirt in their faces for participating in the political process. Legislators need to think beyond the right-wing agenda (brought to them by out-state organizations, reports the USD Volante) and realize how their words and actions affect the bigger agenda of building South Dakota's long-term prosperity.
Steve Craig is a pastor? It's been over twenty years since I stepped into a church, is this the way pastors talk now? Belittling college students? I detect narcissism (a usual condition of self-proclaimed build your own church and make money from it b/c Jesus told me to bible men)
Oh and Larry, the other pastor - Steve Hickey, voted for more guns on campus also.
'Scott' Craig I meant.
South Dakota School of Mines & Technology
The shooter was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot after a gunshot was heard at the Electrical Engineering and Physics building. There are no reports that he threatened anyone.
http://bit.ly/1iU8h1Z & http://bit.ly/17XSuNh
Regardless and irrespective of whether the earth haters in the legislature pass a bill to allow guns on regental campuses private colleges can still ban them, right?
A responsible gun owner does not belong to the NRA and does not support the propaganda spouted by them. They don't brag about how they are gonna defend someone else in a shootout. They don't carry their shooty-guns everywhere they go. They don't make a mockery of the constitution. It should be enough to know you have a weapon handy at home if needed. Otherwise,you need to trust the civil servants paid to protect you.
Jerry Oster: "Rep J.Hunhoff; Guns on campus bill debate this week. Good respectful debate, but did get 1 threatening phone call."
South Dakota's carry law is weak, Cory. If traveling with a SD permit, it is not recognized in enough states to really screw up your life if you don't know their rules on non resident carry. That means they don't trust our permit which is handed out like a marriage license.
What Roger Cornelius doesn't understand about SD politics is, you will not elect anyone without GOP votes. Not all GOP are voting for or with the top heavy Republican officials in our state. You Democrats knocked out Herseth. The Republicans elected Herseth. You far left Democrats enable the elite powers by not finding common ground with moderate Republicans. One day Revvy is ok and the next day in line for castration.
So am I to assume that you are okay with removing rights from our students?
If you followed my post-election commentary you would have noticed that I have long advocated finding a manner in which to appeal to the low-information Republican voter, which I believe is the base of the GOP.
Moderate Republicans have and will help some Democratic candidates, we can always expect a part of that contingent of support.
What I do question is whether or not the South Dakota Democratic Party is so far to the left that even moderate Republicans can't tolerate it, or is that the state Republicans keep serving up the same old issues of abortion, 2nd Amendment rights, etc. to keep those low-information Republicans from voting for their own best interests.
People like Craig and Stalzer who make up slanders against our colleges and students in a public forum are creating an excuse for inflicting their malice and need to demean and suppress. People who wish to carry guns all the time are looking for a pretext to use them. Such is the dominant mindset of Dakota. For those who are the subjects of these obsession, the intelligent option is get out--the choice made by many of our ancestors when they emigrated to America.
@Roger Cornelius You misunderstand. I respect the differences between liberals and conservatives. Trying to point out to you how your candidates are being herded and singled out for defeat. Before elections all these candidates take NRA & Pro-life group surveys. Those groups use those surveys to target legislators. Your Democratic candidates normally answer them honestly or not at all fort which they are targeted by these very active groups. Conservatives & Moderates give the right answers to the surveys and receive endorsements, money, and in-kind campaign support. Here's the rub.. Moderates often vote against 2nd Amendment issues and pro-life issues once in office. They don't get targeted like the Democrats because the moderates will throw smoke screens up by claiming they really are 2nd Amendment/pro-life supporters but there was something wrong with the bills, etc., and will answer the next election survey questionnaires the way they know these groups want to keep themselves from getting targeted.
Democratic activists don't touch these moderates on this issue because you think you won. In reality, these cowbirds push out your Democratic candidates on these issues and still use them to defeat your agenda on these issues and others.
Draw attention to them. Highlight their votes on these issues. Hug them close. It keeps them from dishonestly claiming to be different from your candidates/elected officials on these issues, it weakens their support from the most active sect of the GOP, and it will add them to the target list (vice donor list) of the very active 2nd Amendment
/Pro-life special interest groups. It's a win-win for Democrats. It allows Democrats to be true to who they are, shows Democrats to be honest on these issues while showing their opponents hypocrisy, and shows leadership that their opponents cannot ridicule because of the many moderate "Republicans" that voted with them.
MC, I believe our students should be able to carry instate without permitting. I think without proper training our permit is worthless. I agree that other states have the right to tell us how to permit or conceal carry on their turf. I also believe all institutions have the right to decide who shall carry on their premises but, that they must protect us if they don't allow us to protect ourselves. For the casual crowd mace is cheap insurance. I see how much time and effort goes into my son's ongoing training to properly carry and the more I know, the less I carry.
Roger, kick out the low info Dem and Pub voters and you still could not elect a Dem in SD. Is low info just whatever you or I don't agree with?
Les, low information voters are the ones that look for a R or a D and pull the lever.
Tragically, most information that voters get is bought and paid for given the seclusion of Pierre and the lack of media coverage. After watching the cracker barrels today, the legislators are even further insulated and the town halls are nothing more than a chance for them to spew talking points.
The most interesting thing I saw today was a total lack of respect for voters and a condescending attitude that they shouldn't be questioned. No wonder the moderators are denying any rebuttal or live questioning from the very few in attendance.
mfi-homerun as usual.
hickey, db- i hereby revoke all compliments of the past i have posted.
les makes out with disgusted. blather on boyz. why dont you fuckin moderate republicans excise your own elite, or join the party of the middle class. STFU as hon. korph said of SCOTUS in Hobbylobby-far left elite enabler-sounds like sibson. jfc
Leslie - really, I have to believe exactly like you on all issues or you write me off?
Why did I vote for guns on campuses?
Because we have a responsible gun culture in our state and I'm not worried in the slightest about 21 year olds with guns causing a problem. Listen to what I said on the house floor. We have a pervasive alcohol culture on our campuses and that has given us 1,800 alcohol related deaths last year, 600,000 injuries and 92,000 alcohol related sexual assaults and date rapes. If the Regents want to convince me that they are committed to keeping campuses safe for my three university age kids I'd hope they'd crack down on co-ed dorms and our dorm booze policies. But, I guess I'm a prude. Guns aren't the first place to start to talk about making our campuses safer.
2.21.13 forbes says no, yet sd legislator is blinded by the 2d amendment light. suicide among young people. drug and alcohol abuse on campus. increased availability of guns by state law. nra makes you take your thinking cap off?
mixing alcohol and guns is never a good thing Rev. Hickey and when you add the immaturity at that age then you have problems. Making guns easier to get is not the answer
Your statistics I believe are national. Do we have a problem with rapes here in South Dakota?
Sorry sir but this is a solution where there is no problem and the way Craig and Stalzer treated these students was disgusting.
Wingnuts need to quit screwing around and bring in a one gun fits all bill.pass it and ignore court challenges and federal courts and implement the damn thing and then maybe,you tools can get down to the serious business of ruining the state for decent people.
Who the hell needs a justice system. Got a problem-shoot it. Hate your neighbor-shoot them. Wifey no love you-take a gun downtown and mug a prostitute. Kids won't do their homework-line 'em up and notch their ears with your mini-magnum howitzer to get their attention. Your dog won't poop in the neighbors yard-hold him at gunpoint and march him over there until he gets the hang of it and then shoot him. Pretty soon all your troubles fade away like the greasy fumes of kordite after you shot the last elephant in South Dakota with your .600 Nitro Express double rifle.
Do more people come to Mr. Hickey's church hungover or packing heat?
If we have such a responsible gun culture in our state, then why are we so worried that folks with guns are going to storm our campuses and Capitol?
We could have a perfectly responsible alcohol culture, or a perfectly responsible sex culture, and it would still be inappropriate for people to drink and have sex in classrooms and courthouses.
It's kind of like driving. I don't have a problem with my driving skills. It's always the other drivers. (That's the problem).
Do your kids carry guns around on their college campuses, Hickey?
There are responsible cigarette and cannabis smokers also. Let them enjoy their reefer out on the college knoll.
Cory: "No citizen should bring a gun into a classroom, a courtroom, or a church."
I can agree about the classrooms and courtrooms, but last I heard one of the most common places to find child rapists is in a church... so maybe we should re-think that last one.
Hickey: "If the Regents want to convince me that they are committed to keeping campuses safe for my three university age kids I'd hope they'd crack down on co-ed dorms and our dorm booze policies. But, I guess I'm a prude. Guns aren't the first place to start to talk about making our campuses safer."
So instead of drafting a bill that strengthens enforcement of anti-drinking policies or even a bill promoting your 1950s mentality against co-ed dorms, you feel instead you should just double down and introduce guns to our universities which you already admit struggle with alcohol and safety issues.
This is the logic used by our legislature... if a problem exists, just add guns and see what happens. Brilliant.
What you aren't doing is listening to the Universities nor are you listening to the students. Those are your constituants. Those are the people you are supposed to represent instead of the local NRA lobbyist.
By the way Steve, when you insinuate that co-ed dorms are a problem, you are thereby suggesting males and females can't cohabitate without it leading to sexual assault. Your solution - put them in separate dorms.
Yet you don't apply this same logic to guns. You don't suggest we separate guns from students... but instead blend them together and trust that those responsible 21 year olds will take care of it themselves.
It must be incredibly difficult to back into your positions when they seem to contradict one another so often.
Craig, that is a wonderfully logical comment. Excellent.
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